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Max
04-12-2009, 09:01 AM
<cRush> Welcome everyone, to tonight's Developer Open Chat - We ask that you please direct any questions to DevBot by private messaging him in the format ~question Your Questions.
<cRush> Please refrain from asking any questions about ETA, Future Server Ideas, or SunCrusher features.

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<DevBot> Dasleah asks, "What do you see as the biggest obstacle(s) to getting the Shipwight class into SWGEmu?"
<kyle> Getting the ground game finished.

<DevBot> Dasleah asks, "Do you have any plans or procedures in place within the game to regulate the virtual economy? Or will measures to stop inflation and over-saturation in the market be introduced as seen and needed?"
<kyle> For a vanilla release there will be no economy regulation enabled. That said, we do plan on having some optional measure for servers to enable if they so desire.
<kyle> Suncrusher may address some of the shortcomings of the economy, but that is for another discussion.

<DevBot> Dasleah asks, "What do you see as the most important features that need to be implemented on the road to v1.0?"
<Ramsey> http://www.assembla.com/spaces/swgemu/milestones
<Ramsey> Milestone tasks cover major systems that need work

<DevBot> Dasleah asks, "How is the mood within the dev team so close to the launch of Suncrusher? Cautious optimism? Dread and terror? Blissful relief? Is this an inspiring milestone for the dev team?"
<Ramsey> Excited yet Overwhelemed is the general feeling..theres still a lot to do but none of it is depressing or a drag

<DevBot> Dedaskalion asks, "Why was the armor color change feature for composite armor removed from TC as it was during pre-CU?"
<kyle> Because the armor color change feature was not a feature of pre-cu. It was intended to fix a blunder of SOE and then to be removed 2 weeks later, but they never removed it.
<kyle> reference to above
<kyle> sorry -> http://www.swgpatchnotes.com/update-notes-8-january-04
<DevBot> Boo asks, "What is the current status on Tailor schematics that require missing or broken components?"
<kyle> Broken. Once they are all fixed, you would see them as fixed on TC. I am currently redesigning a few aspects of tailor.

<DevBot> Vlock asks, "the devs have said before that suncrusher will the only "play server" of its kind for testing, but on the off chance that suncrusher DOES reach its player cap, will there be any other "suncrusher style" servers that will go up or be allowed to go up?"
<kyle> That has not been considered yet, however we will certainly do what is in the best interest of the development and the community.

<DevBot> NeySevour asks, "any word on the 1/1 bug? What caused it and how to prevent it?"
<cRush> We are still trying to track down the exact causes for the 1/1 HAM bug as it appears there are multiple methods of producing it. So far research has not yielded a 100% failproof method of reproducing the bug, which makes it harder to track down.
<cRush> We encourage all testers to please continue documenting the steps required to produce the bug, and try to nail down an exact procedure required.
<cRush> Earlier in the week, we were able to patch one instance of the bug, but it seems to have multiple causes, so please keep searching testers!

<DevBot> Austen asks, "Will you guys fix the HUGE exploit that annihilated PVP against CMs because they could poison/disease through walls. All they had to do was duel and aoe apply. With the implementation of housing coming soon, will this issue be resolved? Also shooting through walls that should be solid is also an issue on TC, is there going to be a fix added before SC?"
<Ramsey> collision with static objects like city buildings isnt something SOE has ever addressed. There is no built-in way to fix the bug.
<Ramsey> However,
<Ramsey> It is something that can be fixed (by using the static object data on the client) later down the road, assuming it doesnt take a huge amount of server resources
<Ramsey> No promises, unless you can get SOE to send us the client source :p

<DevBot> Blackice asks, "will crafting materials qualities and such effect the outcome of final products effectly like it did befoe soe lowered and put a cap on max numbers that could be put out on medkits and andthing crafted?"
<kyle> I'm not sure the question is clear enough for me to give a reliable answer
<kyle> However, crafting will work according to known pre-cu calculations and spreadsheets

<DevBot> DowcuDosan[web] asks, "Will Suncrusher be launched with the full array of mobs across the various planets? Or only limited mobs on certain planets?"
<cRush> Following up my structure/installation/deed overhaul which is nearing completion, I plan on revisiting the Creature spawning and lair system. This will make it a more easily deployed system aiding both the implementation of missions and random world spawns across planets. I will subsequently be looking for scripters to assist in making accurate LUA spawn scripts in coordination with Kellina.

<DevBot> Kyzher[web] asks, "Since Bounty Hunter is a ranged profession, will Saber Block be tweaked so that bounty hunters can stay ranged without having every shot blocked by the Jedi, thus allowing bounty hunters to not have to be a melee profession to successfully hunt a skilled Jedi?"
<Ramsey> That is something we leave upto server admins. We will have to implement the game in the base core3 release as how it was during pub14.1 - even if its something that created a profession imbalance
<Ramsey> But remember, SC and base-core3 are different

<DevBot> NeySevour asks, "What is the status of Harvesters?"
* Ramsey looks at crush :)
<cRush> I'm putting the finishing touches on my Harvester rewrite tonight. Things are looking good, and the only bug I've found thus far entails multiple operators viewing the resource hopper simultaneously. I will be collecting some more packets later tonight to solve this issue, and hopefully will be rollling this changes out before Monday. Houses will be close following.

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<cRush> That will conclude the Developer Open Chat for tonight. Thank you all for attending and your continued support! Standing together, we can make Pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies once again a reality!

Phoenix Icecold
04-12-2009, 09:37 AM
Thank you devs for the great job you have done so far and long may it continue!

Ashur
04-12-2009, 10:01 AM
<kyle> Because the armor color change feature was not a feature of pre-cu. It was intended to fix a blunder of SOE and then to be removed 2 weeks later, but they never removed it.
<kyle> reference to above
<kyle> sorry -> http://www.swgpatchnotes.com/update-notes-8-january-04


it was in pre-cu, it should be in swgemu...

why is this still being debated? everyone knows it was IN pre-cu, feature or no feature. if soe didnt remove it, and it stayed in the game during pub 14.1 and everyone knows this, then what is the problem of us having it?

everyone on TC is asking for this. and if this is a gamechanging feature, then fine, but it isnt,its just colors.

note from the patch notes 08 january 04.

•Armor: Added an option to Composite armor pieces such that players can select the color of their armor. This works around a problem we introduced before the holidays where we inadvertently re-colored all pieces of composite armor. This option will exist only for the next 2 weeks.

so they added it in, but never removed it.

jat5560
04-12-2009, 11:21 AM
<kyle> Because the armor color change feature was not a feature of pre-cu. It was intended to fix a blunder of SOE and then to be removed 2 weeks later, but they never removed it.
<kyle> reference to above
<kyle> sorry -> http://www.swgpatchnotes.com/update-notes-8-january-04


it was in pre-cu, it should be in swgemu...

why is this still being debated? everyone knows it was IN pre-cu, feature or no feature. if soe didnt remove it, and it stayed in the game during pub 14.1 and everyone knows this, then what is the problem of us having it?

everyone on TC is asking for this. and if this is a gamechanging feature, then fine, but it isnt,its just colors.

note from the patch notes 08 january 04.

ĽArmor: Added an option to Composite armor pieces such that players can select the color of their armor. This works around a problem we introduced before the holidays where we inadvertently re-colored all pieces of composite armor. This option will exist only for the next 2 weeks.

so they added it in, but never removed it.


Just like the mini-suits. They were never supposed to be in game, but they were. Are we going to get rid of mini-suits too? Full group payout to a single player running solo missions in a group wasnt supposed to be in game either, but it was - are we going to take that out too?

Shandrise
04-12-2009, 12:32 PM
I hate to be a voice of dissent, but I agree with the people above me. You guys (SWGEmu team) say you want a vanilla 14.1 server, and being able to change armor colors was in 14.1, intended or not. Seeing as you're leaving other things in that weren't necessarily meant to be in, I don't understand why so a so trivial yet desired feature is being kept from us.

Biophilia
04-12-2009, 12:40 PM
it makes sense if you consider timeline. Minisuits and solo missions may not have been originally intended - but they were intended at the time of 14.1. Whereas changing armor color was not intended at the time of 14.1, although it may have been intended after that (I guess they changed their minds or whatever).

but that said, I'm not sure what harm there is with leaving this in. I had a jedi and wookiee at the time so I'm not familiar with any specifics, if any.

cRush
04-12-2009, 12:45 PM
The right to change color armor should really be left to the Master Armorsmith as a perk to his profession.

I'm sure that this feature will end up in a list of "configurable" options for server administrators to choose, but it means that we have to spend time coding both ways.

I think it is pretty clear from SOE's own patch notes that they fully intended to remove it after a few weeks. In that same respect, I've been meaning to correct Travel now for a few months, but have had many other things that have taken priority.

That doesn't mean that it should necessarily be seen as an intended feature, simply because SOE never got around to removing it? They might have forgotten it was even in.

djolovicl
04-12-2009, 12:53 PM
So we wont get Vanilla 14.1 server? I don't understand. Its only Vanilla when its convenient?

Biophilia
04-12-2009, 01:03 PM
So we wont get Vanilla 14.1 server? I don't understand. Its only Vanilla when its convenient?

this should have explained your misunderstanding:


<kyle> Because the armor color change feature was not a feature of pre-cu. It was intended to fix a blunder of SOE and then to be removed 2 weeks later, but they never removed it.


there's no need to include a mechanism in version 1.0 to fix an armor issue that never happened.

praxi34
04-12-2009, 01:18 PM
The right to change color armor should really be left to the Master Armorsmith as a perk to his profession.

Crush hit the nail on the head, if you put color change in for everyone it removes the perk for armoursmith. Its like letting everyone have sampling, its not game changing but its not right. To put it into perspective how could you change amour color if you didn't have the skill to do so?

Tomarru
04-12-2009, 01:40 PM
Can't wait for the harvester revamp, been messing around with harvesters the past week or so and right now they seem totally random. Thats why theres a mountain of bugs logged against them.

Like the power, i had a harvester this morning with 70 power, put in 250 and the end result was 20 power. Hopefully this revamp knocks harvesters out of the park, it's clear they work but with these issues its like they are more broken than they really are.

Also looking forward to the planet wide spawns, right now the world seems sparse, goin into the wilds is just barren, the odd harvester but thats it. Also, only when full spawns are in will we know how taxing the emu is on the server.

Btw, one other thing that has been annoying me for a while is the traffic in the sky in cities, i remember tie fighters etc buzzing around and it added another dimension to things with such a small effect. I was wondering if anyone had found the packet for it yet.

cRush
04-12-2009, 01:49 PM
Harvesters are basically 100% complete, and to my knowledge bug free. I even have the multiple operators (people viewing the operate machinery panel) list working flawlessly now.

I'm sure there will be a few small bugs that surface when they hit the TC, but nothing like I've heard complaints of. Plus, they will be simple to fix.

BankyEdwards
04-12-2009, 01:50 PM
i agree that armor color changing should be left to the armorsmith. Just cause SoE failed at fixing bugs and some became common place doesn't mean we need to keep it. Look at Theed starport for instance. back in Beta I recall a dev saying that instant travel in Theed was a bug but a low level one that they would fix as launch neared. When the devs failed at getting launch pushed back and rushed things to make the beancounters launch day the bug slipped into live and kinda became the way Theed worked.

I am all for Theed travel taking same wait as all others and Armor being colored only by the armorsmith. and needing a full suit for full benefit at that.

every master crafter should be able to color their items and they alone. (with that we want colored furniture) :)

BankyEdwards
04-12-2009, 01:51 PM
Harvesters are basically 100% complete, and to my knowledge bug free. I even have the multiple operators (people viewing the operate machinery panel) list working flawlessly now.

I'm sure there will be a few small bugs that surface when they hit the TC, but nothing like I've heard complaints of. Plus, they will be simple to fix.

just personals again or will we finally see other installations like factories, and medium and heavy harvs?

and wind now work right /nudge how about solar and fusions?


still good work cRush

cRush
04-12-2009, 01:56 PM
just personals again or will we finally see other installations like factories, and medium and heavy harvs?

and wind now work right /nudge how about solar and fusions?


still good work cRush


All harvesters are working, personal, medium, heavy - finishing up generators now.

Haven't touched factories. Actually the current implementation will be completely broken when I submit my changes, so factories will be removed for a short period of time, but they will be right after housing.

BankyEdwards
04-12-2009, 01:58 PM
cool now only if we had the schems to make them all. Architect needs some love :P

cRush
04-12-2009, 01:59 PM
I'll throw them on the blue frogs for extensive testing of course for about a week or so.

BankyEdwards
04-12-2009, 02:06 PM
boo blue frogs :( i want to make them.

or is architect all bogged up waiting for a fix to being able to stack items in crafting boxes. ie needing 10 structure mods to make a wall?

cRush
04-12-2009, 02:12 PM
I will be working with kyle to fix factory crate stacking as soon as I finish off housing and push it into testing. Once we get factory crates working right, then I will finish off factories, which hopefully will enable us to pull the blue frogs altogether.


(Might still leave them in for certain things that need testing, but we can strip out most of it)

BankyEdwards
04-12-2009, 02:25 PM
just seems wrong pushing housing and installations out without letting the architects make them. once everyone has them from the blue frog why buy form us? if no one is buying from us then makes it harder on us to test the crafting aspect. I mean if the harvs on blue frog are complete crap ie minumum ber rating then perhaps people will upgrade when crafters start producing better. but the houses. once you have the house you want no need to get it again. (minus a server wipe) which crafters hate more than anyone to begin with.

mujadaddy
04-12-2009, 02:30 PM
...Stormies in Theed are warping around again... :( ... I'm sure Faction Points for kills are being worked on, too, just bringing it up :)

cRush
04-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Well, the harvesters will be min BER/HopperSizeMax.

Once we get houses craftable, then we may wipe housing - since storage of items and vendors won't be available right off.

I guess it depends on if vendors/house storage comes before crafting or not tbh.

Tomarru
04-12-2009, 02:48 PM
Banky, the TC is for testing, if this was suncrusher then you may have apoint, but right now the quickest and most effective way to test things is to dump it on blue frogs and get as many created as possible.

The sheer number of harvesters on TC right now has allowed harvesters to be tested pretty extensively and has meant that issues have appeared much quicker than they otherwise would have. Heck im sure some of the issues are related solely to the fact that so many harvesters exist and wouldnt have even appeared.

BankyEdwards
04-12-2009, 03:27 PM
yes the sheer number of harvs on TC now made them tested extensively. yet how is that possiable if they weren't on the blue frog??? oh yea I and several other crafters MADE them all. if you test the craft and the bazaar sale and then the placement you are maximizing the aspect of testing. if you just through things on blue frog you eleminate 2/3rds of the testing that could have been done.

if houses or bigger harvs were craftable today you'd have a whole host of architects testing making them to make sure schematics were bug free as well as placing and using them and selling them so others could place and test them.

The only items that should be on the blue frog are ones that are not craftable yet. as if everything is obtainable from the frog and sometimes better from the frog then crafters have a hard time getting into the testing of the crafting of items as it is hard to get into testing and destroying items cause you know you can't sell or give them away cause whats on the frog is better.

Ekaika
04-12-2009, 04:06 PM
I hate to be a voice of dissent, but I agree with the people above me. You guys (SWGEmu team) say you want a vanilla 14.1 server, and being able to change armor colors was in 14.1, intended or not. Seeing as you're leaving other things in that weren't necessarily meant to be in, I don't understand why so a so trivial yet desired feature is being kept from us.

So we wont get Vanilla 14.1 server? I don't understand. Its only Vanilla when its convenient?

We're back to this. Remember, this is a development project. SWGEmu is NOT a server. We're building the game, and creating options for server admin's to choose between. Suncrusher in an entirely different issue. No mission statements have been released. When the SC forums launch, this issue will be addressed.

djolovicl
04-12-2009, 04:20 PM
Crush hit the nail on the head, if you put color change in for everyone it removes the perk for armoursmith. Its like letting everyone have sampling, its not game changing but its not right. To put it into perspective how could you change amour color if you didn't have the skill to do so?
That's where you are wrong, tailors are the ones meant to worry about fashion, armorsmithing is about quality of armor, not color.
Why would you force someone to buy second-rate armor just because they refuse to get it from the best armorsmith on the server who happens to be a fairy and has decided that all of his armors should be pink.
Let armorsiths worry about the quality of their merchandise and let the people decide what colors they want to wear.

Ashur
04-12-2009, 04:24 PM
people want different things, its just funny how something this simple and known by all, has to be argued or even talked about.

And thanks Crush and Ekaika for responding about the issue :)

Biophilia
04-12-2009, 04:30 PM
That's where you are wrong, tailors are the ones meant to worry about fashion, armorsmithing is about quality of armor, not color.
Why would you force someone to buy second-rate armor just because they refuse to get it from the best armorsmith on the server who happens to be a fairy and has decided that all of his armors should be pink.
Let armorsiths worry about the quality of their merchandise and let the people decide what colors they want to wear.

I agree with cRush. And your logic is off. If color is for tailors then why do you condone the general community to play around with fashion? You should be arguing that in order for armor to have color it should be given to tailors to do. But that doesn't even make sense because there's no reason why an armorsmith can't color his armor if he has the capability. There's no rule that says an armorsmith can't have an eye for aesthetics. Look at composite armor without color, it's still fashionable. I don't see you arguing about that.

fixit6
04-12-2009, 04:33 PM
Tried to ask the bot what was the status of medical crafting, either I was doing it wrong or it got ignored but...this to me is one of the most important things to get ready for SC launch. You can't grind if you cannot heal one self (or other players!). There was a while there we could craft a few items, now there is none. Oh well, perhaps next dev chat.

Thanks, as usual, for taking the time to talk to the community.

BankyEdwards
04-12-2009, 04:36 PM
at the very least if players wanted to recolor their armor they should have to buy some kind of coloring kit like they do for droids and ships and vehicles. but i'd rather it stay with the armorsmith. if he isn't supplying the color you want. email or PM him and make a special order. And if that still doesn't work look for a new place to give your business.

as an architect I wish i could have colored furniture to debate like this.

Ashur
04-12-2009, 04:48 PM
i just want it the way it was as i remember it :)

never heard anyone cry nerf armor coloring, because it was just a bonus for us, it did absolutly nothing but give the players more joy.

NeySevour
04-12-2009, 05:07 PM
at the very least if players wanted to recolor their armor they should have to buy some kind of coloring kit like they do for droids and ships and vehicles. but i'd rather it stay with the armorsmith. if he isn't supplying the color you want. email or PM him and make a special order. And if that still doesn't work look for a new place to give your business.

as an architect I wish i could have colored furniture to debate like this.

Color Furniture will be a configurable option decided by server admins.
No I am kiddin :) But armor color kits to me sounds like a very good option.

ksh87
04-12-2009, 05:43 PM
I have to say that I like the idea of armor color kits too, an option that would be fairly cheap to produce but still required an Armorsmith.

At any rate though, glad to hear that harvesters are coming along so nicely and I cant wait for housing!

Dasleah
04-12-2009, 05:48 PM
Thanks for answering so many of my questions, devs! I'll try to think of some more to ask you next time (assuming you've survived the SC launch ;) )

AZIronman
04-12-2009, 09:56 PM
I read Deda's question. WOW... Really Kyle? That's the stupidest thing I've heard.


If we're doing a vanilla release we should include all the questionable "bugs". This including the radial menu composite color change.

I think that you think it will help armor smiths.... It won't. The armor smith's will have to a lot more hasel with the colors and if the colors aren't 100% right the players won't buy it. Thus making their business harder

Ekaika
04-12-2009, 10:00 PM
I've heard stupider.

Max
04-12-2009, 10:37 PM
We are the developers. We cannot and will not decided what your server uses in terms of 14.1 features. What we WILL do is provide options. Armor recolouring via radial menu will be configurable, just like removing AAs and CAs via radial or the use of mini suits.

Can we please stop worrying. It is a non issue. Yes your server of choice will be able to do it, no that may not reflect exactly what is on our Test Centre.

Dasleah
04-12-2009, 10:38 PM
I don't get what everyone's arguing about. It was a feature added temporarily to compensate for a bug. A bug that this version never had. Hence, the feature doesn't need to be added. The developers outright stated that it was a temporary feature to compensate for something stupid they did. It doesn't matter if it's a feature you like, I don't see why we should be including bug fixes for bugs we don't have.

AZIronman
04-12-2009, 10:45 PM
We are the developers. We cannot and will not decided what your server uses in terms of 14.1 features. What we WILL do is provide options. Armor recolouring via radial menu will be configurable, just like removing AAs and CAs via radial or the use of mini suits.

Can we please stop worrying. It is a non issue. Yes your server of choice will be able to do it, no that may not reflect exactly what is on our Test Centre.

Well I like most people here are going to play suncrusher. The details have not been released so it's a little tense on the staff's view point of things like this.


Also right now on Nova we're striving for patch 14.1 and nothing else. Shouldn't that mean putting this "bug" back in? It's been on the test center before so i wouldn't think it'd be THAT hard of a fix. If I'm wrong correct me I'm no coder.

Biophilia
04-12-2009, 10:50 PM
I don't get what everyone's arguing about. It was a feature added temporarily to compensate for a bug. A bug that this version never had. Hence, the feature doesn't need to be added. The developers outright stated that it was a temporary feature to compensate for something stupid they did. It doesn't matter if it's a feature you like, I don't see why we should be including bug fixes for bugs we don't have.

exactly. It would be like a publish 15 CU emulator with respecs, which were only available to compensate for the conversion from precu to CU.

dedaskalion
04-13-2009, 12:29 AM
Well I like most people here are going to play suncrusher. The details have not been released so it's a little tense on the staff's view point of things like this.


Also right now on Nova we're striving for patch 14.1 and nothing else. Shouldn't that mean putting this "bug" back in? It's been on the test center before so i wouldn't think it'd be THAT hard of a fix. If I'm wrong correct me I'm no coder.

That's exactly what needs to happen. It's hyprocritical to say you're striving for a complete clone, vanilla copy of pre-cu and state that mini-suits and composite armor color change via radial menu were a bug that's being worked on.

AZIronman
04-13-2009, 12:36 AM
That's exactly what needs to happen. It's hyprocritical to say you're striving for a complete clone, vanilla copy of pre-cu and state that mini-suits and composite armor color change via radial menu were a bug that's being worked on.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Max
04-13-2009, 02:24 AM
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I will repeat for clarity's sake: Those features WILL be available. They WILL work, and they will be available for anyone to turn on.

Are they a priority for testing right now? Not really.

Are they going to be used on SunCrusher? Undecided, and we probably won't decide without consultation of the SC community when the time comes.

dedaskalion
04-13-2009, 02:26 AM
I will repeat for clarity's sake: Those features WILL be available. They WILL work, and they will be available for anyone to turn on.

Are they a priority for testing right now? Not really.

Are they going to be used on SunCrusher? Undecided, and we probably won't decide without consultation of the SC community when the time comes.

I'm trying to make your head explode.

Max
04-13-2009, 02:29 AM
I'm trying to make your head explode.
I'll scruff you up good boy :D

Brane Ded
04-13-2009, 02:41 AM
An easy fix for coloring armor:

Armorsmiths can change the color of any armor at anytime not just at the final stage of crafting. This keeps coloring armor exclusivelyto AS's and players do not need to buy new sets everytime they want a new color, just ask an AS to change it for you (for a fee of course ;)) when you want a different color. (With or without armor color kits is up for debat though.)

dedaskalion
04-13-2009, 02:51 AM
An easy fix for coloring armor:

Armorsmiths can change the color of any armor at anytime not just at the final stage of crafting. This keeps coloring armor exclusivelyto AS's and players do not need to buy new sets everytime they want a new color, just ask an AS to change it for you (for a fee of course ;)) when you want a different color. (With or without armor color kits is up for debat though.)

No, the issue is not what kind of fix needs to be patched in. It's an issue of if it was actually in pre-cu.

I'll scruff you up good boy :D

;).

TK-386
04-13-2009, 04:21 AM
Crush hit the nail on the head, if you put color change in for everyone it removes the perk for armoursmith. Its like letting everyone have sampling, its not game changing but its not right. To put it into perspective how could you change amour color if you didn't have the skill to do so?
Exactly!

We want crafting to remain important ansd not render them useless. Even colouring provides an extra expect of the profession.

djolovicl
04-13-2009, 04:23 AM
<kyle> Because the armor color change feature was not a feature of pre-cu. It was intended to fix a blunder of SOE and then to be removed 2 weeks later, but they never removed it.

Question is:

Was it in 14.1? Answer is YES.

Was it meant to be in there? Who cares, lot of things were not meant to be in there but they were and we will still have them in Vanilla.

Shandrise
04-13-2009, 05:37 AM
Question is:

Was it in 14.1? Answer is YES.

Was it meant to be in there? Who cares, lot of things were not meant to be in there but they were and we will still have them in Vanilla.

I have to agree. I've seen several times mentioned by staff that the goal for Suncrusher is for an initial 14.1 vanilla release with potential changes down the road. The moment you "fix" or omit something that was in 14.1 SWG is when you can no longer promise and advertise a "vanilla" pre-CU emulator. Now, I'd be fine with the devs tweaking some stuff from the original SWG if the initial promise/advertisement for Suncrusher was something along the lines of "tweaked" or "slightly modified" pre-CU emulator.

Max
04-13-2009, 05:59 AM
I quote the mission statement:
B) To deploy a server (Sun Crusher) that embraces vanilla, yet builds upon it, and strives to show the community a server which has the potential that we all believed SWG had, but never got the chance to show during it's short life span.

That is the promise for SunCrusher. It does not promise strict vanilla, it promises to build upon vanilla. However SunCrusher is not the issue here. The issue is what SWGEmu will provide.

As stated in our mission statement:
A) To develop and maintain a community code base of a vanilla** release of a Star Wars Galaxies Server, circa Publish 14.1 for use of anyone who wishes to use it.

We will as developers provide a vanilla 14.1 codebase. That includes those unintended aspects of the game such as Mini Suits and radial armor colouration.

IT IS NOT ON TC BECAUSE IT IS NOT SOMETHING WHICH WE NEED TO TEST AT THIS STAGE.
IT WILL BE IN THE CODE, AND WORKING, BY v1.0

If this continues to be argued about, I'm closing this thread.

djolovicl
04-13-2009, 06:25 AM
IT IS NOT ON TC BECAUSE IT IS NOT SOMETHING WHICH WE NEED TO TEST AT THIS STAGE.
IT WILL BE IN THE CODE, AND WORKING, BY v1.0


Thank you, i think that's what we all wanted to hear ;)

Ashur
04-13-2009, 06:33 AM
I don't get what everyone's arguing about. It was a feature added temporarily to compensate for a bug. A bug that this version never had. Hence, the feature doesn't need to be added. The developers outright stated that it was a temporary feature to compensate for something stupid they did. It doesn't matter if it's a feature you like, I don't see why we should be including bug fixes for bugs we don't have.

wow thats stupid.

then we should remove mini-suits, mission payouts, fix intimidate, change jedi, remove all exceptional weps and insane dots, fix so we arent dependant on buffs (basicly get the CU) and all the 50 other things that "were bugs" and "werent supposed to be"

the things that actually MADE this game. you do understand that alot of the things we liked and enjoyed so much were bugs? because they were.

and having the AS be the only one changing colors isnt good too, i want a white suit with my right bracer red. going to be fun ordering that every 2 weeks.

anyway, this post wasnt an argument with the devs or csrs, its just that post i quoted made my cry a bit inside :)

Nalgol
04-13-2009, 07:02 AM
/sigh

if you start arguing about something pathetic like armor color i don't even know how this will end

thats why dev's never should listen to the player base regarding those features

most of the player base is just selfish and greedy
they would even demand to put there iwin button back into the game if it was in pre cu even it it would be the worst thing that could happen to the game

most players just don't have the vision and foresight ness it takes to see that even those simple "bugs" do insane damage to the game


do what must be done do not hesitate show no mercy i wand swg pre-cu 2.0 not the 14.1 pile of **** soe delivered


wow thats stupid.

then we should remove mini-suits, mission payouts, fix intimidate, change jedi, remove all exceptional weps and insane dots, fix so we arent dependant on buffs (basicly get the CU) and all the 50 other things that "were bugs" and "werent supposed to be"

yes yes yes and yes all those things should be fixed the players demanded those fixes back on pre cu they demanded for a curb that soe went abit over the top with cu is another story but it still ends to the point that the players wanted changes/fixes to the current combat system because it was just broken unbalanced buggy as hell

found it jtl before curb post (http://web.archive.org/web/20040803054640/forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=39804) 1900 angry reply's till it got locked yeah ppl back then really loved the broken combat system good read btw

djolovicl
04-13-2009, 07:20 AM
yes yes yes and yes all those things should be fixed the players demanded those fixes back on pre cu they demanded for a curb that soe went abit over the top with cu is another story but it still ends to the point that the players wanted changes/fixes to the current combat system because it was just broken unbalanced buggy as hell

No, No, NO and NO!!! Demanding that in pre-cu and crying about it is what got you the CU and the NGE. If it was pre-cu it should be in Vanilla, and then if the individual servers want to patch, balance, nerf, or just mess things up it will be their choice. But we need vanilla first ;)

nostyleguy
04-13-2009, 12:33 PM
I dont know where people get this sense of entitlement to a pure vanilla preCU. Its pretty convenient to ask for all the favorable bugs (mini-suits, mission payouts, armor coloring) to be included but not the unfavorable bugs (rubber banding, broken missions(no spawn, spawn underground, spawn in the water etc), lag issues, item/credit duping).

You all want a true vanilla preCU? i really don't think you do. the Emu's core is already more optimized and efficient than SOE's. Issues like lag and rubber banding are either minimal, or promised to be fixed eventually.

If you really want a vanilla preCU, you should ask for slow servers, rubber banding, broken missions, and item duping, along with your precious armor coloring, mini-suits, and mission payouts.

Biophilia
04-13-2009, 12:41 PM
bring back soe customer service and smed for true vanilla!

or at least make these features an option for server admins please thx vry mch.

dedaskalion
04-13-2009, 12:50 PM
I dont know where people get this sense of entitlement to a pure vanilla preCU. Its pretty convenient to ask for all the favorable bugs (mini-suits, mission payouts, armor coloring) to be included but not the unfavorable bugs (rubber banding, broken missions(no spawn, spawn underground, spawn in the water etc), lag issues, item/credit duping).

You all want a true vanilla preCU? i really don't think you do. the Emu's core is already more optimized and efficient than SOE's. Issues like lag and rubber banding are either minimal, or promised to be fixed eventually.

If you really want a vanilla preCU, you should ask for slow servers, rubber banding, broken missions, and item duping, along with your precious armor coloring, mini-suits, and mission payouts.

Probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life.

nostyleguy
04-13-2009, 12:59 PM
Probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life.

You're right, it is dumb to want lag, broken missions, rubber banding, and generally un-optimized server code back. But.... you said it yourself

No, the issue is not what kind of fix needs to be patched in. It's an issue of if it was actually in pre-cu.


Well do you want what is actually in pre-cu or not? You're picking and choosing what you consider 'pre-cu' based on whether it was convenient for you.

Thankfully enough, the developers of this emulator are extremely accommodating to the community ( <3 devs ) and will code in both versions of most bugs.

However, i hope you realize the hypocrisy of saying you think vanilla pre-cu includes bugs like armor coloring, mini-suits, and mission payouts but somehow doesn't include lag, broken missions, item duping, rubber banding etc...

Lubbe
04-13-2009, 01:13 PM
Everyone will be running in black or the monotone grey composite. Because no one is bothered to make a special order for a customized armor. And when you find a real good armor for a good price you figure out it have the wrong color... And we won't see guilds with their own customized armor. Just like NGE :(

Tomarru
04-13-2009, 01:29 PM
Lubbe, the point was that armour smiths could recolour the armour at any time, you just hand it to them and they have access to the colour wheel like we used to.

That way you can get them customised to your needs before or after you buy them.

Really, i dont see what the issue is, yes the ability was convenient, but it removed something from the game. I mean it would be convenient if we could all slice our own gear etc but that would be treading all over slicers feet.

People really complain about everything, this is such a minor thing that has no real impact on how you end up playing the game, except adding another money sink (and the more of those the better).

Biophilia
04-13-2009, 01:34 PM
Everyone will be running in black or the monotone grey composite. Because no one is bothered to make a special order for a customized armor. And when you find a real good armor for a good price you figure out it have the wrong color... And we won't see guilds with their own customized armor. Just like NGE :(

I do agree with this and the matching guild armor colors sound great.

Although I still disagree that it should be the default, it will be optional (hopefully) for admins. And it sounds like you could make a strong argument that it didn't much matter to the armorsmith and that there are more positives for letting customers choose rather than the smith. Someone said earlier that it should be put into an armor color kit that is bought, and I think that is a good idea.

did it honestly matter that much to armorsmiths? I had a wookiee and jedi at the time so I didn't pay much attention to the composite armor scene.

Lubbe, the point was that armour smiths could recolour the armour at any time, you just hand it to them and they have access to the colour wheel like we used to.

That way you can get them customised to your needs before or after you buy them.


if this is possible, then disregard what I just said.

hisengal
04-13-2009, 01:37 PM
imber update there :D

Lubbe
04-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Lubbe, the point was that armour smiths could recolour the armour at any time, you just hand it to them and they have access to the colour wheel like we used to.

That way you can get them customised to your needs before or after you buy them.

Really, i dont see what the issue is, yes the ability was convenient, but it removed something from the game. I mean it would be convenient if we could all slice our own gear etc but that would be treading all over slicers feet.

People really complain about everything, this is such a minor thing that has no real impact on how you end up playing the game, except adding another money sink (and the more of those the better).

Sorry, I just read the bad news on Devchat log. But then they have to code an armor recolor kit because it wasn't in the game back then.

nostyleguy
04-13-2009, 02:11 PM
i think the uniform-guild-armor would actually be BETTER if there was no personal coloring. Every armorsmith could color his suits in 1 way, maybe all black with a red bicep, or pink all over, etc. Now if it was much more difficult (or impossible) to re-color armor after the initial purchase, then the visual appearance of the armor would be like a trademark of that AS. Additionally, since most guilds have one or several 'guild armorsmiths', the same connection could be made to distinguish guilds on the battlefield. This would actually be a big benefit to NOT being able to color your own personal armor.

Tovo
04-13-2009, 02:11 PM
<kyle> Because the armor color change feature was not a feature of pre-cu. It was intended to fix a blunder of SOE and then to be removed 2 weeks later, but they never removed it.
<kyle> reference to above
<kyle> sorry -> http://www.swgpatchnotes.com/update-notes-8-january-04

Even if it appears that SOE intented to take it out I believe it should be implemented. These are all small things that added to the original experience, changing it is changing pre-cu which is not what the goal is supposed to be. The same goes for the 0 wait theed shuttle, was it a bug ? yes, should it be in pre-cu ? yes. These all added to the experience, changing them means its not so much vanilla 1.0 as chocolate 1.0.

cRush
04-13-2009, 02:26 PM
Even if it appears that SOE intented to take it out I believe it should be implemented.

You make it sound as if it's not clear whether SOE intended to remove it or not. They explicitly state in the patch notes that they fully intended to remove it after two weeks.

They didn't. The speculation as to why could go on endless debate because SOE never disclosed any reasoning for leaving the feature in. One could assume any of an endless array of possibilities, but none can be confirmed.

These are all small things that added to the original experience, changing it is changing pre-cu which is not what the goal is supposed to be. The same goes for the 0 wait theed shuttle, was it a bug ? yes, should it be in pre-cu ? yes. These all added to the experience, changing them means its not so much vanilla 1.0 as chocolate 1.0.

Of course we will continue to strive towards leaving these sort of options up to individual server administrators to determine through something as easy as a master configuration file.

If anyone truly expects to find an exact Pre-CU replica, then I'm afraid you will be sorely disappointed. We are doing all we can, but you must realize that what we are working to accomplish has never been done before.

Pre-CU is an extinct species of MMO. We are attempting to ressurect a dinosaur, and we don't even have a full DNA strand...

Tomarru
04-13-2009, 02:28 PM
They dont need an armour recolour kit either, all they need to do is modify the code that already exists to check if you have unlocked a certain skill box within armour smith then show the additional option in the radial menu. Simple theory and im sure the code could be knocked together quite quickly.

Yes, they could go the whole hog and add new items and all sorts, but really, all its doing is restricting the same existing ability to armour smith.


Again, im gonna reiterate how mind boggling it is that people are getting their panties in a twist over these trivial issues. As has been stated many times before, the end result here WONT be vanilla pre-cu, it is impossible to get the same balance of bugs as existed, new issues will appear, old ones will be resolved, yes they have a little more control over this one but in essence you guys are never gonna be happy either way.

I don't mind this change, when i left this ability didnt exist anyway so i find it rather hard to become attached to what seems to me to be a very specialised ability being given out to everyone. Might aswell go the whole hog and give everyone a selection of abilities from every class...

Ramsey
04-13-2009, 03:19 PM
I think we've said that options like armor coloring can be toggled by server admins...so why does it matter? Kyle simply stated that armor coloring is not an intended feature of PreCU. It's removal from the _TEST CENTER_ means it doesn't need to be included in the testing set.

Default Core3 configuration is NOT the exact same feature set that SunCrusher has enabled (and most likely every other server) - we aren't forcing anyone to stick to default configs. I see no point in whining about what the default setting in a config file should be.

Shandrise
04-13-2009, 03:28 PM
I think we've said that options like armor coloring can be toggled by server admins...so why does it matter? Kyle simply stated that armor coloring is not an intended feature of PreCU. It's removal from the _TEST CENTER_ means it doesn't need to be included in the testing set.

Default Core3 configuration is NOT the exact same feature set that SunCrusher has enabled (and most likely every other server) - we aren't forcing anyone to stick to default configs. I see no point in whining about what the default setting in a config file should be.

Fair enough. I think a lot of people (myself included) made the assumption that since the same team running TC right now will be running Suncrusher that everything in (and not in) TC will be the same as Suncrusher. I can understand why stuff like armor coloring and other things are being left off TC, so I apologize for the tone of my previous post. I really do appreciate everything you guys are doing, especially as you seem to be understaffed atm. If I knew anything about coding I'd definitely help :)

xavjer
04-13-2009, 03:30 PM
...
If anyone truly expects to find an exact Pre-CU replica, then I'm afraid you will be sorely disappointed. We are doing all we can, but you must realize that what we are working to accomplish has never been done before.
...


One thing is to fix something because the "bugged" live version we were used to is impossible to code in or manage, and another is to intentionally introduce modifications.

No one is expecting a perfect match of the game SWG was, yet most people, while appreciating the hard work you are putting into SWGEmu, reasonably expect the closest thing to pre-CU you guys can manage.

I am talking about the final version, not SC btw.

dedaskalion
04-13-2009, 03:54 PM
It's causing a lot of stress to a lot of people, if it's not a big deal then why not just enable it again on the TC? That would squash all of this crap right there.

Biophilia
04-13-2009, 04:09 PM
causing stress?

MikeCool
04-13-2009, 04:11 PM
<Ramsey> http://www.assembla.com/spaces/swgemu/milestones
<Ramsey> Milestone tasks cover major systems that need work

Well looks like i will look forward to December 25th, lmao i thought the official launch 1.0 would be November 15th. Guess i was wrong then.

Good chat log there. ;)

Lubbe
04-13-2009, 04:13 PM
<Ramsey> http://www.assembla.com/spaces/swgemu/milestones
<Ramsey> Milestone tasks cover major systems that need work

Well looks like i will look forward to December 25th, lmao i thought the official launch 1.0 would be November 15th. Guess i was wrong then.

Good chat log there. ;)

Its just guesstimate/goal not official.

nostyleguy
04-13-2009, 04:35 PM
causing stress?
yea haven't you heard? TC = life...

dedaskalion
04-13-2009, 04:39 PM
yea haven't you heard? TC = life...

word.

djolovicl
04-13-2009, 05:01 PM
yea haven't you heard? Tc = life...

:bow:

loftkilla
04-13-2009, 05:11 PM
yea haven't you heard? TC = life...

mmmm, development version of life. does this mean I get to be born as whatever I want? WHat's the reincarnation process here? If I free myself from desire does that mean I don't have to play on SunCrusher?

Lubbe
04-13-2009, 05:22 PM
mmmm, development version of life. does this mean I get to be born as whatever I want? WHat's the reincarnation process here? If I free myself from desire does that mean I don't have to play on SunCrusher?

You die and you clone.

Ramsey
04-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Well looks like i will look forward to December 25th, lmao i thought the official launch 1.0 would be November 15th. Guess i was wrong then.


We've said that the milestone after the SC one (April 30th) has an incorrect date. Assembla requires a date to be set before creating a milestone...and we just needed a place to dump tasks that come after the April 30th milestone. Dec25 was a fun, meaningless date

AZIronman
04-13-2009, 05:43 PM
I think we've said that options like armor coloring can be toggled by server admins...so why does it matter? Kyle simply stated that armor coloring is not an intended feature of PreCU. It's removal from the _TEST CENTER_ means it doesn't need to be included in the testing set.

Default Core3 configuration is NOT the exact same feature set that SunCrusher has enabled (and most likely every other server) - we aren't forcing anyone to stick to default configs. I see no point in whining about what the default setting in a config file should be.

Well let has some fun on the test center and color our armor =)

Ekaika
04-13-2009, 07:47 PM
It's causing a lot of stress to a lot of people, if it's not a big deal then why not just enable it again on the TC? That would squash all of this crap right there.

I think dragging the entire staff in here to argue over an issue that's been proven insignificant creates a bit more stress to our most valuable resource, our developers, than does dueling tc'ers not being able to color their chestpieces.

Have some respect for the morale on the team, and please stop beating them down. Would you prefer they take breaks to get away from this type of thing? Or do you also assume they cannot, because they owe you a product asap.

TCircuits
04-13-2009, 08:17 PM
In the spirit of working towards the same goal in getting the emulator to release & the sanity of all, it's probably best this thread be locked/closed. :-)