TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09

[Bostwain]

Originally Posted by CapnSwifty

The person who was calling out the bug in Vent that day had no right to try and get anyone to use this, and was straight up called out and *****ed at for doing so.

This statement along with the video really makes it sound as though some of the specifics regarding this bug had been shared with others.

Bug reports are not private. You can look at a list of every bug report made. This bug is common knowledge.

[CapnSwifty]

Originally Posted by Bostwain

Bug reports are not private. You can look at a list of every bug report made. This bug is common knowledge.

Not so long ago this option had a checkbox or drop down menu that we could select when submitting a bug report.

I clearly remember seeing at least a dozen bug reports regarding the resource dupe appear and disappear before the last couple of wipes.

Not to mention # 2 below ...

Originally Posted by Anakis

As we are still in the Development phase, I don't see a zero-tolerance policy on exploiting being very helpful. From a Development perspective, we NEED players to find these exploits and hacks and inform us about them, so that we can code the server to prevent their use in the future live servers, like Thoop said.

We cannot have players being afraid to find and report such things out of fear of being banned/deleted. We all know that once this is live, there will be plenty of those types hacking away and disrupting play on a live server if they can. We need to find and fix these issues before we get there.

We are definitely not giving the green light here for the exploiters to run wild. What we are saying is that you won't be banned, no questions asked, if you perform an exploit on the TC.

How I interpret this policy change is like this. It is okay to perform an exploit on TC as long as:

1. Your actions are not griefing other players.

2. You immediately (and privately) report all details of how you performed the exploit to the appropriate staff and do not tell anyone else about it.

3. You DO NOT continue to perform the exploit on the TC, even after reporting it.

You find it, you report it, you keep quiet about it to your friends and you don't use it again.

Unfortunately, we have had staff members misbehave in the past. If you think that Staff are not watched for these sort of things, you are mistaken.

[is2u]

I think this is completely fair, to say the least, if it helps the Dev team accomplish it's goals in the long run.

In the short run, it's only beta, who cares if Ashor is back and he exploits again. Once he is caught he will never be given the same 2nd chance again and another exploit will have been discovered and will be on the way to being fixed. The thing to keep in mind is everything you are working on on the current server will someday be undone. It's not like you are working towards progress on the real server.

The other thing to keep in mind is this staff has the wisdom to communicate what exploits have been found in the community and how they are handling it. It allows everyone to know what has been going on and that they are working to fix it and make this a better game for all. It is a reward to the community that these exploiters get found out and the exploits are fixed before v1.0 goes live.

[Phase]

Ok skipping the whines all over the thread's pages in the beginning (I don't know if they calmed down by page 33), I say this is a good idea, but it really should be watched a lot :P

[kellis23]

As somebody that is fairly new to the community I have only one way to look at this. I understand wanting to find all of the exploits you can before launch. But saying you want people to help you eliminate 3rd party hacks is laughable at best. It simply isnt fair to create those kinds of expectations whenever it has NEVER been done. You will not find a single MMO, FPS,RTS, etc. that cant be manipulated in some way. So in essence this new group of people you have put together is a complete waste of time. I have sadly read all 34 pages and every single line of text because I am bored out of my face. I am really impressed with the progress you have made with the Emu and wish you continued success. The only thing in this post I really want to stress is your putting way too much pressure on yourself as a team. You would be the first people in the world to ever be able to full proof your project. No offense but if it hasnt been done yet its not going to be done by you.

[faceman7381]

To recap a bit:

It was stated some time ago by developers that jedi would NOT be in before 1.0.

A very smart developer and a fan of jedi finished the jedi code for the most part.

A couple of equally smart developers and fans of jedi came up with an unlock path to 'test' for the enjoyment of the community during the construction of the OR.

Some players, who had been speed hacking prior to jedi, decided to use a script to increase their speed so they could get to POIs quicker to unlock jedi. This is considered wrong by the majority of the community but it was repeated and not reported. Accusations of hacking begin.

A race to unlock first occurs.

Someone unlocked Jedi. No problem with that is seen by the majority of the community. Possible problem is whether they were helped by someone which would have shown some favoritism. Rumors begin.

Rubber banding makes the TC unplayable to many for about 48 hours.

People in the community ask for some reprisal for the cause of the rubber banding.

Emergency developer chat held by Max to discuss issues of speed hack / rubber banding.

Zero Policy in acted in post by Max.

Persons in question are kicked out.

Max states bi-weekly update coming out Friday.

Friday passes without update.

Zero Policy modified 48 hours later and at least one of the persons in question is allowed back in to assist with discovering hacks.

Community becomes split. People question if the project is like other emulators that will aid those who are their friends in an unfair advantage.

Person in question decided not to assist in finding exploits.

Person in question is band.

Questions and issues remain.

If I have missed anything constructive, please let me know.

[Uli]

spot on faceman

Edit: PS, given cRush a tool which can help with adjusting the protection

[Emokho]

OK, so after reading this I just have to ask if anyone on the exploitation team as they are so dubed has decided inorder to truely help to do something rather smiple I did last night. I didn't go to any of the sights I found, but go to google and type in Starwars Galaxies. The first 3 pages of the search are mostly hacks and cheats, probably for the NGE, but it wouldn't exactly be hard to add the words Pre-CU to that search and there ya go, google has a compiled hack/cheat list for you. Load it, see if it works, report it, and the websight it comes from so the devs can actualy download anything themselves and considering they're doing a damn good job of reverse engineering a videogame the programing of a simple hack should be easily understood by them and able to be stopped.

Now, if people are cheating to help, great, if people are cheating to win, they're morons. If you're complaining about people being let back in after they cheated simply on the grounds that it will make you lose, I say once again... YOU CANNOT WIN OR LOSE A MMORPG. You might lose a fight, but guess what, you lose to people who don't hack too. This is the mentality that drives people to cheating and hacking in the first place, the misguided and foolish notion that you actualy CAN win at a game like this. I've played EQ, SWG, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, NWN online, Shaiya, and even WOW on a ten day free trial and none of them ever announced that anyone had won or lost the game.

So yeah, asmuch as it is contradictory what has happend the staff should include hackers, but they shouldn't be given the keys to the kingdom, they should be given limited access with an armed guard ready to shoot at the first sign of something wrong.

Ohh, and one more thing to the post no one's gonna read ro care about anyway. Lets all remember the main thing here is that the developers are NOT dieities, they are people like everyone else, if you cut them they do not bleed weird glowing blue plasma, just normal red human blood. They make misteaks, this community seems to be holding them to a higher standard than many nations hold their leadership when they are volunteers who work on this in their free time and are funded by donations (untill one of us wins the lottery).

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Emokho

Now, if people are cheating to help, great, if people are cheating to win, they're morons. If you're complaining about people being let back in after they cheated simply on the grounds that it will make you lose, I say once again... YOU CANNOT WIN OR LOSE A MMORPG. You might lose a fight, but guess what, you lose to people who don't hack too. This is the mentality that drives people to cheating and hacking in the first place, the misguided and foolish notion that you actualy CAN win at a game like this. I've played EQ, SWG, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, NWN online, Shaiya, and even WOW on a ten day free trial and none of them ever announced that anyone had won or lost the game.

So yeah, asmuch as it is contradictory what has happend the staff should include hackers, but they shouldn't be given the keys to the kingdom, they should be given limited access with an armed guard ready to shoot at the first sign of something wrong.

I Just Lost The Game.

Other then that good post i suppose

[cRush]

Originally Posted by Emokho

So yeah, asmuch as it is contradictory what has happend the staff should include hackers, but they shouldn't be given the keys to the kingdom, they should be given limited access with an armed guard ready to shoot at the first sign of something wrong.

And this statement is all we are looking to acheive here.

The "exploitation team" will not receive any server privileges, be recognized as staff, or be allowed to use exploits to grief other players. They will, most certainly, be watched with a careful eye.

We aren't looking to hand out a "free hack all you like pass" to these guys. We are giving those who were extremely helpful in the past, but at some point turned down the wrong path, and have shown remorse, one final chance to clean up. If they fail to do so, they are gone - end of story.

If you guys see someone exploiting/hacking, we expect you to report them, even if you think they are on the "exploitation team". Just please bring evidence to support the claims so we can nail them definitively if they are abusing their chance.

---

On Ashur:
As I have been told, Ashur voluntarily asked to serve a 3 month ban as a good gesture of faith to the community that he really is sorry and wants to clean up. I'm sure some of you think it's all a show; maybe it will turn out that way. I still think he deserves the chance - he was at one point one of the finest testers we have ever had at this project. He simply got mixed up in the wrong crowd with the wrong mindset.

[Alegis]

Thanks for your statement Crush!

I, for myself, trust u guys and im sure u will do whats the best for this great project called SWGEmu.

[Joshino]

Originally Posted by cRush

And this statement is all we are looking to acheive here.

The "exploitation team" will not receive any server privileges, be recognized as staff, or be allowed to use exploits to grief other players. They will, most certainly, be watched with a careful eye.

We aren't looking to hand out a "free hack all you like pass" to these guys. We are giving those who were extremely helpful in the past, but at some point turned down the wrong path, and have shown remorse, one final chance to clean up. If they fail to do so, they are gone - end of story.

If you guys see someone exploiting/hacking, we expect you to report them, even if you think they are on the "exploitation team". Just please bring evidence to support the claims so we can nail them definitively if they are abusing their chance.

---

On Ashur:
As I have been told, Ashur voluntarily asked to serve a 3 month ban as a good gesture of faith to the community that he really is sorry and wants to clean up. I'm sure some of you think it's all a show; maybe it will turn out that way. I still think he deserves the chance - he was at one point one of the finest testers we have ever had at this project. He simply got mixed up in the wrong crowd with the wrong mindset.

srsly?

[Zerve]

Ya'rly!

[zetlaux]

Hasn't this thread gone on long enough? The developers have spoken.

[Lazerbrick]

Originally Posted by cRush

On Ashur:
As I have been told, Ashur voluntarily asked to serve a 3 month ban as a good gesture of faith to the community that he really is sorry and wants to clean up.

That Ashur, what a swell guy.