Bi-Weekly Update for 11/15/09

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Serpentkaa

Clarifying Client Development versus Client Modification

First, all objects and some functions/commands are based on the code in your client. The client is an executable file that accesses data files. What you see in game, such as the appearance of a bolma, exists in your client’s data files on your computer there at home.

Yup

Originally Posted by Serpentkaa

SOE used a different data file type in Pre-CU than it did for data files that contain CU and NGE information. We have unraveled the Pre-CU data file type so that we can read and access it but are still working to unravel the data file type for CU and NGE.

Need more explanation on this.
It's confusing what you are trying to point out. If its about the compression (aka the .tre file) was changed in CU/NGE then its because they ripped out the TOC file and kept it separate to increase loading speeds (So not trying to unravel it)

But just want to confirm what you mean by Data File Type because it could mean a lot or a little.

Originally Posted by Serpentkaa

SWGEmu views modding the client as adding objects, code or functionality to the client in such a way as to change its purpose or give a player a distinct advantage over another.

There is almost no modding which causes this (At least I have seen no one with it). Most mods used are only visual to the user and I suppose the only one who has such mods is me which allows different appearances but it does not give any advantage only a new unique look.

Originally Posted by Serpentkaa

This means altering the files to remove content or send false information to the server. An example of a client mod is a speed hack. This includes:

• Modifying Models that SOE has made 1.
• Fix bugs in the client 2.
• Increase resolution of the client 3.
• Allow atmospheric flight 4.
• Allow the client to work in 3 dimensions on the ground. 5.
• Changing or replacing the artwork or items already within the client with player customized artwork. 6.

Separated these out due to the wording of the section above, I'm picky on words that are used.

Reading it your basically saying the list above is "hacks" or illegal modifying of the client.

Listing it as 1. 2. etc.


1. Modifying models can have no affect what so ever in game, modifying something such as collision can.

2. Fixing bugs in the client. Yeah ok, erm good luck to whoever achieves this.

3. Eh? SWGEmuSupport.exe does that, what is list actually trying to say.

4. Possible, Laggy Yes, Need Client Modification? NO! If anyone wants to argue about it then I will happily (I seen it done lets just say that)

5. Ok thats not possible. (Guy's do not bother mentioning about /jump)

6. Nothing wrong with that.

Again I'm a bit confused what the list is for, initially reading it, its a list of "bad" things which we are not allowed to do but some of it is good/fine/harmless. Yeah would like it expanded.

Originally Posted by Serpentkaa

Developing the client is defined as researching the code to locate and utilize already existing objects, components and functionality in the existing data files to create new content. This means learning to read unknown data files types and accessing their content. For example, the Mustafar bunker is available in the data files as a CU file type. The Client Development Team researches how to unravel the code around it to make it accessible and usable by players in the future. This includes:

• Add planets using unused maps and populated with unused models from the client.
• Introduce unused player races contained in the client.

Ok, I'm going to be mean.

DavinFelth - Yeah he knows his stuff, he knows how to alter a terrain and a lot of other file types in the game. Does documentation and everything.

Me (When I was on the team) - Did break down file types however I did not document it (A few I did however lost them in a wipe) but I'm very good at doing something then being able to repeat it.

Valkyra - No Documentation, Is Waiting for the tool to be finished to be able to do Chandrila (Yeah its hard to make a terrain I admit that but still) but she has been doing work in coding (So shouldn't she be moved out of client developer team, which leaves 1 poor soul left)

Pre-CU <--> CU <--> NGE

Not too big changes, easy to work out.
Some are impossible to convert (Due to how the client handles it)
But I would say 85% is easy to convert and does not need any documentation (Documentation is to re-create files when needed for things which are not importable aka my pod racers)


Species: These are not "unused" there NPC species (Normally have less customization options depending on how they were made).

Unused Models: Yeah good luck finding these, there are probably less then 10 I would of thought. (There are files for models they were going to add but there not files which will be of any use)

Unused Terrain: A lot of them testing different things.

Originally Posted by Serpentkaa

Custom content can be added without modifying any SOE created files. This content would have to be in the same format as the client’s data file code and be in separate data file so as not alter the original files. Some examples of what we can do:

• Add new playable races
• Add community create planets
• Add community created sounds
• Add community created models

Content does not have to be in the same format as the client data file code I can guarantee that right now however if you want to add it in with a different data format you got to make sure you tweak the right headers in the file as well as making sure the general data is correct.

I think thats about it.

[learningdisease]

Originally Posted by Uli

Again I'm a bit confused what the list is for, initially reading it, its a list of "bad" things which we are not allowed to do but some of it is good/fine/harmless. Yeah would like it expanded.

Its a statement about what the Client Development team will and will not be able to do with the restrictions from the SOE EULA. Its only about those who will be on the SWGEmu Staff actively working on "new" content, so its not that 'you'(as in, various community members) aren't allowed to make those modifications, its that SWGEmu cannot, for various reasons, endorse or distribute those types of file changes.

I know you have the skills and expertise to do a LOT of different things with the client, however its that some of the methods and changes made may violate some clauses in the EULA, and thus cannot be officially supported by our Team.

I hope I can clear up some confusion on this topic, as it ONLY pertains to our specific Client Development Team.

[Tiana]

I <3 this team.

So awesome. Well done so far.

Also, I still love that video ultyma made.

[tranewreck]

/cheer!

[nazoreen]

About content, so you could add planets, models, species which are not in the SOE client yet.
Will you provide tool to add this content easily ?
What is about quest ? will you provide a tool could be used by members to create custom quests ?

[Uli]

Originally Posted by learningdisease

Its a statement about what the Client Development team will and will not be able to do with the restrictions from the SOE EULA. Its only about those who will be on the SWGEmu Staff actively working on "new" content, so its not that 'you'(as in, various community members) aren't allowed to make those modifications, its that SWGEmu cannot, for various reasons, endorse or distribute those types of file changes.

I know you have the skills and expertise to do a LOT of different things with the client, however its that some of the methods and changes made may violate some clauses in the EULA, and thus cannot be officially supported by our Team.

I hope I can clear up some confusion on this topic, as it ONLY pertains to our specific Client Development Team.

Edit: Non of my methods and changes violated the EULA.
Okay then lets get this sorted then:

* Modifying Models that SOE has made
* Fix bugs in the client
* Increase resolution of the client
* Allow atmospheric flight
* Allow the client to work in 3 dimensions on the ground.
* Changing or replacing the artwork or items already within the client with player customized artwork.

1. Fine (By that mean no need to)
2. Impossible Anyway
3. That can not break the EULA (Note: By Resolution I'm guessing screen size)
4. Does not need client modification at all, so that should not be on the list (I do not want to "name drop")
5. Impossible Anyway
6. Adding new textures should be fine if you redirect the shaders i suppose.

So why are
3. 4. and 6. on the list.
(I would not mind having an exact number/Paragraph to the SOE EULA)

[nazoreen]

Sorry for my limited english, but I didn't understand about the rules...

To resume, I have 1 account (forum/swgemu) and 2 characters.
Could I play with those 2 characters at the same time ?

And about AFK, ATK rules... well, it could be fine to clarify this with little sentences (may be with example) and think about people who don't speak english very good.

[Serpentkaa]

Originally Posted by nazoreen

Sorry for my limited english, but I didn't understand about the rules...

To resume, I have 1 account (forum/swgemu) and 2 characters.
Could I play with those 2 characters at the same time ?

And about AFK, ATK rules... well, it could be fine to clarify this with little sentences (may be with example) and think about people who don't speak english very good.

You have one account here on the forums "Nazoreen" - you are good to go.
You have multiple in-game characters associated with the account "Nazoreen". You can have as many as you wish.
You can only play two of those characters at the same time. Two clients connected to TC Nova at one time.

Approved AFK: Artisan sampling or an Entertainer dancing.
Frowned on but Accepted AFK: One combat character AFK killing newbie mobs around a city. Do not chose to AFK grind on mobs that in the city or too close to the city.
Forbidden AFK: One Character grinding combat XP and another character assisting or helping/following along on macro that helps to increase total damage done. This includes a TKM with an AFK pisotleer following along.
Forbidden AFK: Any character combat AFK or AFK support in a cave, major building or named spawn such as the DWB. An example is an ATK TKM with a AFK doctor following along on macro at the Krayt Dragon Graveyard. Another example is AFK combat by a single character at Nyax. Another example, that some remember from live, is AFK spam looting locked containers in some of the higher end caves for skill tapes.

[frankensteined]

What do you define as "too close to the city?" Considering that most newbie spawns are 100m or less from the city, the statement about AFK combat grinding "too close to the city" with relation to newbie spawns like Meatlumps seems empty.

[Serpentkaa]

Originally Posted by Uli

Okay then lets get this sorted then:



1. Fine (By that mean no need to)
2. Impossible Anyway
3. That can not break the EULA (Note: By Resolution I'm guessing screen size)
4. Does not need client modification at all, so that should not be on the list (I do not want to "name drop")
5. Impossible Anyway
6. Adding new textures should be fine if you redirect the shaders i suppose.

So why are
3. 4. and 6. on the list.
(I would not mind having an exact number/Paragraph to the SOE EULA)

Uli,

This is the SWGEmu general definition worded in laymens terms of how our team will handle client modifications and what they wish to responsible for. We might in the future choose to review modifications and developments on a case by case basis to determine if they are allowed on the nextwork at some future time. At this point in time, we have taken a conservative stance and made these decisions to protect this community and game.

This seems to be turning into some sort of discussion about what we can or can't do, what is possible or impossible, should we or shouldn't we. I am not understanding your point in this conversation.

Again, this was a general statement written so most of our community can relate without speaking code-ese, digging through legal issues and whatnot. This statement was not meant to be a technical discussion of why or why not this policy fits the EULA. While I respect your considerable skill and the points you are bringing up, I think you are starting to create confusion again about what is allowed and what is not.

Please clarify what you are wanting out of this discussion.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Serpentkaa

Uli,

This is the SWGEmu general definition worded in laymens terms of how our team will handle client modifications and what they wish to responsible for. We might in the future choose to review modifications and developments on a case by case basis to determine if they are allowed on the nextwork at some future time. At this point in time, we have taken a conservative stance and made these decisions to protect this community and game.

This seems to be turning into some sort of discussion about what we can or can't do, what is possible or impossible, should we or shouldn't we. I am not understanding your point in this conversation.

Again, this was a general statement written so most of our community can relate without speaking code-ese, digging through legal issues and whatnot. This statement was not meant to be a technical discussion of why or why not this policy fits the EULA. While I respect your considerable skill and the points you are bringing up, I think you are starting to create confusion again about what is allowed and what is not.

Please clarify what you are wanting out of this discussion.

At first i was confused about the list.

LD Stated the list was made from using the SOE EULA saying What is not possible/Allowed for them to do.

I was just asking why those points (3. 4. and 6.) were against the EULA


Edit: The Impossible Stuff was outlining what was Impossible so there is no point in adding that rule (If you understand what I mean)

[Serpentkaa]

Originally Posted by frankensteined

What do you define as "too close to the city?" Considering that most newbie spawns are 100m or less from the city, the statement about AFK combat grinding "too close to the city" with relation to newbie spawns like Meatlumps seems empty.

I personally define too close AFK to a city as being in the city proper or near a main egress or exit near a starport. Examples are:
1. AFK grinding on the faction NPCs that are located inside the city such as Bestine where you use to see imperial NPCs next to the starport. Killing them is fine, grinding them is fine as long as you are ATK.
2. Standing next to that main egress point out of the city near Coronet Starport AFK grinding meatlumps. Sometimes the spawns are practically on top of the pavement and AFKers position themselves almost between the two posts near the starport. This is more about prevention than to be mean. Jedi sometimes load in and must sprint to escape Boba. They will sometimes have to sprint in that direction to make for the open land. If you are too close to that area you might target them. If you hit them, they can and sometimes will hit back. This leads to QQing in #swgemusupport. Suggestion is, if you AFK grind, do not do it near doorways or main thoroughfares. Make sure there is plenty, plenty of space around your character.
3. Exception would be the triangular stretch of land with trees in Theed. It is found between the hotel (across from the starport) and the river. This is deliberately set aside as a newbie spawn area for Naboo.

Other GMs will have either more strict or more lenient interpretations. However, that is a good general guideline.

Originally Posted by Uli

At first i was confused about the list.

LD Stated the list was made from using the SOE EULA saying What is not possible/Allowed for them to do.

I was just asking why those points (3. 4. and 6.) were against the EULA


Edit: The Impossible Stuff was outlining what was Impossible so there is no point in adding that rule (If you understand what I mean)

Ahh. Understand now. Well, let's just say that the staff would rather be conservative and not take the chance of the community losing the Emu due to a Cease and Desist order. Maybe, one day, possibly, perhaps (let me put my Torres hat on to get the right level of slipperiness in that statement) it might be revised. No commitment is given on that ever happening. Do not bother to inquire. As it stands now, this is what we will allow on our networks.

Also, that list is there not because an item on there is possible or impossible. It is because someone who does not know anything about client modification, coding, or adding content has asked about something similar to be added. This wasn't written for uber developers, it was written for average-joe, non-coder out there to understand.

[frankensteined]

Thank you very much for the reply, Kaa. I appreciate all your hard work, as well as the rest of the GM's, helpers, and DEV's.

[Odyssey Starchaser]

Awsome job DEV's.... 4 years has it been that long(looks up at his join date.)
Wow it has.."whats that on my cheek?" Tears of joy....

[Lexx2k]

Remember, remember the 15th november, a gunpowder, treason and blood...