TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09

[Phase]

Ok skipping the whines all over the thread's pages in the beginning (I don't know if they calmed down by page 33), I say this is a good idea, but it really should be watched a lot :P

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by odohvare

AMEN!!!

It's a test center. Let the Exploits Fly!! Find them, fix them. And not having the ability to repeat them, kinda makes it hard to see if they are repeatable. Finding and correcting Exploits and Bugs should be the TOP Priority. Now, however, we run the risk of getting reported and then banned because we found something. Sometimes, repeating an exploit is required to figure out just exactly what happened. Personally, I don't think there should be any BANNING for exploits until the game goes GOLD. The ones I think should be banned are the people that cry all day about how much it sucks that we don't have speeders, and how long it will take them to walk to such and such place. Basically the whiners. The game is in a somewhat playable state, but that doesn't mean that is what should be happening. The primary focus is still testing, and there are so many people that get upset about little roll backs, inventory items disappearing, a busted bazaar, or not being able to be trained or train anyone. Then after they get good and ticked off, they start mouthin off to other people, or publicly cursing the devs. I think people need to be reminded that this is a test environment, not a full scale playable game. Get that back in people heads and the maybe they will realize that trying to perform and finding exploits is part of the testing process, and both the bugs and exploits need to be duplicated, in many zones, planets, etc. They may exist/work in one place and not another(ex: The broken Cantina in Theed).

STOP repeating the same old tiring phrase "It's a test center, exploiting is fine". The exploits & bugs will be found WITHOUT allowing people free passes to exploit like scum. If they are going to be on an exploiting team, make it illegal to do so on NOVA, and allow them free rains to test exploits and hacks on the PRIVATE dev server.

The ENTIRE point of NOVA being "a playable enviroment" is to test HOW their changes will affect a pseudo economy. Exploiters & hackers NEGLECT and RUIN this required testing. So please, give it a rest..they ARE harming NOVA.

[kellis23]

As somebody that is fairly new to the community I have only one way to look at this. I understand wanting to find all of the exploits you can before launch. But saying you want people to help you eliminate 3rd party hacks is laughable at best. It simply isnt fair to create those kinds of expectations whenever it has NEVER been done. You will not find a single MMO, FPS,RTS, etc. that cant be manipulated in some way. So in essence this new group of people you have put together is a complete waste of time. I have sadly read all 34 pages and every single line of text because I am bored out of my face. I am really impressed with the progress you have made with the Emu and wish you continued success. The only thing in this post I really want to stress is your putting way too much pressure on yourself as a team. You would be the first people in the world to ever be able to full proof your project. No offense but if it hasnt been done yet its not going to be done by you.

[faceman7381]

To recap a bit:

It was stated some time ago by developers that jedi would NOT be in before 1.0.

A very smart developer and a fan of jedi finished the jedi code for the most part.

A couple of equally smart developers and fans of jedi came up with an unlock path to 'test' for the enjoyment of the community during the construction of the OR.

Some players, who had been speed hacking prior to jedi, decided to use a script to increase their speed so they could get to POIs quicker to unlock jedi. This is considered wrong by the majority of the community but it was repeated and not reported. Accusations of hacking begin.

A race to unlock first occurs.

Someone unlocked Jedi. No problem with that is seen by the majority of the community. Possible problem is whether they were helped by someone which would have shown some favoritism. Rumors begin.

Rubber banding makes the TC unplayable to many for about 48 hours.

People in the community ask for some reprisal for the cause of the rubber banding.

Emergency developer chat held by Max to discuss issues of speed hack / rubber banding.

Zero Policy in acted in post by Max.

Persons in question are kicked out.

Max states bi-weekly update coming out Friday.

Friday passes without update.

Zero Policy modified 48 hours later and at least one of the persons in question is allowed back in to assist with discovering hacks.

Community becomes split. People question if the project is like other emulators that will aid those who are their friends in an unfair advantage.

Person in question decided not to assist in finding exploits.

Person in question is band.

Questions and issues remain.

If I have missed anything constructive, please let me know.

[Uli]

spot on faceman

Edit: PS, given cRush a tool which can help with adjusting the protection

[Emokho]

OK, so after reading this I just have to ask if anyone on the exploitation team as they are so dubed has decided inorder to truely help to do something rather smiple I did last night. I didn't go to any of the sights I found, but go to google and type in Starwars Galaxies. The first 3 pages of the search are mostly hacks and cheats, probably for the NGE, but it wouldn't exactly be hard to add the words Pre-CU to that search and there ya go, google has a compiled hack/cheat list for you. Load it, see if it works, report it, and the websight it comes from so the devs can actualy download anything themselves and considering they're doing a damn good job of reverse engineering a videogame the programing of a simple hack should be easily understood by them and able to be stopped.

Now, if people are cheating to help, great, if people are cheating to win, they're morons. If you're complaining about people being let back in after they cheated simply on the grounds that it will make you lose, I say once again... YOU CANNOT WIN OR LOSE A MMORPG. You might lose a fight, but guess what, you lose to people who don't hack too. This is the mentality that drives people to cheating and hacking in the first place, the misguided and foolish notion that you actualy CAN win at a game like this. I've played EQ, SWG, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, NWN online, Shaiya, and even WOW on a ten day free trial and none of them ever announced that anyone had won or lost the game.

So yeah, asmuch as it is contradictory what has happend the staff should include hackers, but they shouldn't be given the keys to the kingdom, they should be given limited access with an armed guard ready to shoot at the first sign of something wrong.

Ohh, and one more thing to the post no one's gonna read ro care about anyway. Lets all remember the main thing here is that the developers are NOT dieities, they are people like everyone else, if you cut them they do not bleed weird glowing blue plasma, just normal red human blood. They make misteaks, this community seems to be holding them to a higher standard than many nations hold their leadership when they are volunteers who work on this in their free time and are funded by donations (untill one of us wins the lottery).

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Emokho

Now, if people are cheating to help, great, if people are cheating to win, they're morons. If you're complaining about people being let back in after they cheated simply on the grounds that it will make you lose, I say once again... YOU CANNOT WIN OR LOSE A MMORPG. You might lose a fight, but guess what, you lose to people who don't hack too. This is the mentality that drives people to cheating and hacking in the first place, the misguided and foolish notion that you actualy CAN win at a game like this. I've played EQ, SWG, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, NWN online, Shaiya, and even WOW on a ten day free trial and none of them ever announced that anyone had won or lost the game.

So yeah, asmuch as it is contradictory what has happend the staff should include hackers, but they shouldn't be given the keys to the kingdom, they should be given limited access with an armed guard ready to shoot at the first sign of something wrong.

I Just Lost The Game.

Other then that good post i suppose

[Sixotoo]

I just want the rubberbanding to stop.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Sixotoo

I just want the rubberbanding to stop.

Calm down its getting sorted.

[Labyrinth]

I want someone to get out there and solve world hunger, dammit.

[Joshino]

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

I want someone to get out there and solve world hunger, dammit.

Shame people are just so damn greedy.

[cRush]

Originally Posted by Emokho

So yeah, asmuch as it is contradictory what has happend the staff should include hackers, but they shouldn't be given the keys to the kingdom, they should be given limited access with an armed guard ready to shoot at the first sign of something wrong.

And this statement is all we are looking to acheive here.

The "exploitation team" will not receive any server privileges, be recognized as staff, or be allowed to use exploits to grief other players. They will, most certainly, be watched with a careful eye.

We aren't looking to hand out a "free hack all you like pass" to these guys. We are giving those who were extremely helpful in the past, but at some point turned down the wrong path, and have shown remorse, one final chance to clean up. If they fail to do so, they are gone - end of story.

If you guys see someone exploiting/hacking, we expect you to report them, even if you think they are on the "exploitation team". Just please bring evidence to support the claims so we can nail them definitively if they are abusing their chance.

---

On Ashur:
As I have been told, Ashur voluntarily asked to serve a 3 month ban as a good gesture of faith to the community that he really is sorry and wants to clean up. I'm sure some of you think it's all a show; maybe it will turn out that way. I still think he deserves the chance - he was at one point one of the finest testers we have ever had at this project. He simply got mixed up in the wrong crowd with the wrong mindset.

[Alegis]

Thanks for your statement Crush!

I, for myself, trust u guys and im sure u will do whats the best for this great project called SWGEmu.

[Joshino]

Originally Posted by cRush

And this statement is all we are looking to acheive here.

The "exploitation team" will not receive any server privileges, be recognized as staff, or be allowed to use exploits to grief other players. They will, most certainly, be watched with a careful eye.

We aren't looking to hand out a "free hack all you like pass" to these guys. We are giving those who were extremely helpful in the past, but at some point turned down the wrong path, and have shown remorse, one final chance to clean up. If they fail to do so, they are gone - end of story.

If you guys see someone exploiting/hacking, we expect you to report them, even if you think they are on the "exploitation team". Just please bring evidence to support the claims so we can nail them definitively if they are abusing their chance.

---

On Ashur:
As I have been told, Ashur voluntarily asked to serve a 3 month ban as a good gesture of faith to the community that he really is sorry and wants to clean up. I'm sure some of you think it's all a show; maybe it will turn out that way. I still think he deserves the chance - he was at one point one of the finest testers we have ever had at this project. He simply got mixed up in the wrong crowd with the wrong mindset.

srsly?

[Zerve]

Ya'rly!