TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09 - Page 3

zetlaux · #1 10-19-2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anakis

As we are still in the Development phase, I don't see a zero-tolerance policy on exploiting being very helpful. From a Development perspective, we NEED players to find these exploits and hacks and inform us about them, so that we can code the server to prevent their use in the future live servers, like Thoop said.

We cannot have players being afraid to find and report such things out of fear of being banned/deleted. We all know that once this is live, there will be plenty of those types hacking away and disrupting play on a live server if they can. We need to find and fix these issues before we get there.

We are definitely not giving the green light here for the exploiters to run wild. What we are saying is that you won't be banned, no questions asked, if you perform an exploit on the TC.

How I interpret this policy change is like this. It is okay to perform an exploit on TC as long as:

1. Your actions are not griefing other players.

2. You immediately (and privately) report all details of how you performed the exploit to the appropriate staff and do not tell anyone else about it.

3. You DO NOT continue to perform the exploit on the TC, even after reporting it.

You find it, you report it, you keep quiet about it to your friends and you don't use it again.

Unfortunately, we have had staff members misbehave in the past. If you think that Staff are not watched for these sort of things, you are mistaken.

I couldn't have said that any better. The whole time I was reading all of this zero tolerance posts, I thought to myself, "Great. So we're going to wait for Suncrusher for all these exploiters to come out of their shells."

I trust the developers. After years of work put into this project, I doubt they are ready to throw it all down the drain quite yet.

Fierce · #2 10-19-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

I couldn't have said that any better. The whole time I was reading all of this zero tolerance posts, I thought to myself, "Great. So we're going to wait for Suncrusher for all these exploiters to come out of their shells."

I trust the developers. After years of work put into this project, I doubt they are ready to throw it all down the drain quite yet.

What he said

Tolbat · #3 10-19-2009, 12:09 AM

I know some of you have personal opinions of various people involved, however you may not know the full story. I ask that you have patience and trust in our staff members, and developers.

That said, I am sure that if anyone who is unbanned is caught exploiting or hacking for personal gain then they will receive the maximum punishment.

No one is above the rules here.

Thanks.

Tolbat

GestorterEngel · #4 10-19-2009, 12:12 AM

My problem isn't personal at all. I'd have this problem with anyone who has hacked and was rewarded with a staff position and the ability to freely play the game again with no punishment. My concern is it repeating, and no one wants that to happen.

hozsnoop · #5 10-19-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GestorterEngel

My problem isn't personal at all. I'd have this problem with anyone who has hacked and was rewarded with a staff position and the ability to freely play the game again with no punishment. My concern is it repeating, and no one wants that to happen.

When it comes down to it. They have the right to do whatever they want because it's not our server, they own it. They just allow us to play on it. If they want to make a team to stop it i say great. If ashors going to help that's great too. But him and a few others sitting back and laughing at us posting on the forums, also great.. But to be fair if your going to let him back because of this you should let all of storm back with a warning. Fair is fair.

GestorterEngel · #6 10-19-2009, 12:21 AM

As Bostwain posted above. This person was repeatedly seen hacking, (I don't know if he ever reported it), but he did continuously do it, while griefing many many other players... So yes, somewhat by your own words, what he did wasn't okay...

Note that my only problem here is that he is allowed back into the community after this, with no punishment after (by your own words) doing 1-3.

That is my only concern and that is what I'm rather confused on.

kelharis · #7 10-19-2009, 12:24 AM

Is he, or any other member of the team being given information about the inner workings of how the EMU will detect hacks? Because this seems to me like a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house.

What guarantee will there be that these members of the exploitation team won't be simply figuring out how to avoid detection once SC goes live?

Thoop · #8 10-19-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelharis

Is he, or any other member of the team being given information about the inner workings of how the EMU will detect hacks? Because this seems to me like a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house.

What guarantee will there be that these members of the exploitation team won't be simply figuring out how to avoid detection once SC goes live?

This is the nature of all open source projects where the code is available online. We must take extra measures to ensure that we produce the greatest final product that we can. There are many extremely talented developers on this team coming up with great ways to prevent and detect these exploits. Any hacks or exploits that come to our attention will have a way of being prevented or detected. The "exploitation team" will not be above these detections.

Bostwain · #9 10-19-2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thoop

This is the nature of all open source projects where the code is available online. We must take extra measures to ensure that we produce the greatest final product that we can. There are many extremely talented developers on this team coming up with great ways to prevent and detect these exploits. Any hacks or exploits that come to our attention will have a way of being prevented or detected. The "exploitation team" will not be above these detections.

Can you please show me where to obtain the source?

Also how do I go about joining this exploitation team? I would like to stop the exploitation going on... including what is about to start up again.

Thoop · #10 10-19-2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostwain

Can you please show me where to obtain the source?

Also how do I go about joining this exploitation team? I would like to stop the exploitation going on... including what is about to start up again.

You can obtain any open source things you need from our assembla page here. As for joining the Exploitation Team, please PM an admin with an exploit and they will tell you what the next step will be.

Bostwain · #11 10-19-2009, 12:27 AM

Yes but wasn't ashor QA already before?

**Kyle** · #12 10-19-2009, 12:46 AM

If people leave, that is their loss. Recruiting people that can hack our systems is logical and necessary. And yes, this is an open invitation to anyone who wants to try and exploit / hack / crack / dupe / etc. If you can do any of these things, we have a place for you on the Exploitation Team. If you don't report it to the team, we will ban you forever, and delete your characters. Simple, easy, and for the good of the final product. This is a TC, and we need to find the exploits, can any of you complaining make a list of exploits? If the answer is yes, come join the team, if the answer is no, then realize that it's just a TC, and we want the final product to be as exploit proof as possible, and for that we need to hire the best exploiters. Ponder the logic before complaining further.

Bostwain · #13 10-19-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle

If people leave, that is their loss. Recruiting people that can hack our systems is logical and necessary. And yes, this is an open invitation to anyone who wants to try and exploit / hack / crack / dupe / etc. If you can do any of these things, we have a place for you on the Exploitation Team. If you don't report it to the team, we will ban you forever, and delete your characters. Simple, easy, and for the good of the final product. This is a TC, and we need to find the exploits, can any of you complaining make a list of exploits? If the answer is yes, come join the team, if the answer is no, then realize that it's just a TC, and we want the final product to be as exploit proof as possible, and for that we need to hire the best exploiters. Ponder the logic before complaining further.

If you're serious where would you like me to contact you? Here in PMs or on IRC?

**Kyle** · #14 10-19-2009, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostwain

If you're serious where would you like me to contact you? Here in PMs or on IRC?

Dead serious, exploiters unite for the good for the good of the project. You can contact me on IRC.

Wolverine79 · #15 10-19-2009, 01:19 AM

Complaining. Its a joke right. Seem there is a deep rooted corruption in this project. This whole project has really turned downhill. Some of the staff I think are really great. While others seem to be pure corrupt and abuse their power and letting friends do whatever they like.

Instead of covering up your corruption you just making open now. Letting hackers/exploiters to whatever they like because they are friends of staff. Ashur and storm got caught and others but now this a way to throw it back at the community that tried to stop it and hoping it would be fair but instead got just got attacked by the staff and now letting the same ones just hack/exploit and grief all they want. That staff member sit and chat with them about it knowing they were exploiting and hacking but was over looked because Ashur and crew is buddy with crush and kyle and other devs/staff.

They knew of the exploits and ran there hacks and was ok till the community started reporting it. This is how you deal with it. Just make it open now for them to cont. because they are friends of yours.

I and other have really have lost faith in this project. Trying to test and enjoy a fair and balanced for us all when letting others do what they want. When we try to report them we get threaten to mind our own business or be prema banned for it because it. I guess now no worries of that because your making so they can do as they like.

Btw you say no one exploited/hacked to jedi is bs man. You know he did and other but go ahead and try to cover it up. People aren't stupid as you think man. So if you wanna talk about corrupted staff and all take a look at yourself.

People like Ashur that are friend of you guys can say and do whatever they like knowing they can get away with it but people will open thier eyes and see its not just them but staff is also behind this. People do talk and leak out what you do also. It might just come back at you.