TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results

[Kraschman]

Originally Posted by safak

well 2 points to make here.

1. the only way it has been verified, the 'ghost votes', is on the NO side. so people will tend to think they were the culprits the entire time, since they were already found guilty of it.

2. yes, a vote or 2 was removed from both sides. noone is quite sure why/how that happened. but that isn't the point of the screenshots, the point was that right as the poll was closed, many votes in a row went to the same 15% answer... barely pushing it under that 2/3rd mark.
which is, without someone with access to it screwing with it, impossible.
there is less than a 1 in 100 billion percent chance of 20 votes in a row legitimately going toward a 15% answer in a poll of this sample size.

And again, no evidence that the preceding votes were all legit. Therefore ALL the votes are suspect. So scrap the vote and go with the status quo until you can get a clean vote. Which they've done.

[Ekowraith]

Originally Posted by Kraschman

And again, no evidence that the preceding votes were all legit. Therefore ALL the votes are suspect. So scrap the vote and go with the status quo until you can get a clean vote. Which they've done.

What possible set of circumstances could lead to 16% of yes votes being fraudulent, and 0% of no votes being fraudulent? Again, this is the only way it could be that the poll wouldn't show that a majority of people were not in favor of the wipe.

[kookaburra]

Originally Posted by Ekowraith

What possible set of circumstances could lead to 16% of yes votes being fraudulent, and 0% of no votes being fraudulent? Again, this is the only way it could be that the poll wouldn't show that a majority of people were in favor of the wipe.

I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

The problem is that votes were actually TAKEN AWAY from one category and added to another.
The only person(s) with the ability to make a negative vote would be a board moderator.

[Ekowraith]

Originally Posted by kookaburra

I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

Bingo. Illegitimate votes were made on both sides, but they certainly did not constitute 15% of the majority vote.

The poll was legitimate, but the staff opted to please a whining, 1/3rd minority. Their aloof response to the community's outrage only strengthens worries that the staff just doesn't give a damn about its constituents.

[Kraschman]

Originally Posted by kookaburra

I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

The problem is that votes were actually TAKEN AWAY from one category and added to another.
The only person(s) with the ability to make a negative vote would be a board moderator.

OR the assumption could be made that infractions were made by both sides and were enough to alter the outcome. One could assume any number of possible outcomes.

In the absence of firm evidence one way or the other, chuck the vote and go with the status quo until you can get solid numbers.

[Jason2444]

Wipe or no wipe, the emu is making progress so i really dont care

[Ekowraith]

Originally Posted by Kraschman

OR the assumption could be made that infractions were made by both sides and were enough to alter the outcome. One could assume any number of possible outcomes.

In the absence of firm evidence one way or the other, chuck the vote and go with the status quo until you can get solid numbers.

Here's what you're not getting, Kraschman. This has been explained over and over.

In order for the poll to have been illegitimate, then there must have been enough account duping that "yes" wouldn't have been a majority. And in order for that to be true, that would have to mean that margin of difference - that 15% of the "yes" votes - were all fraudulent, and none of the "no" votes were fraudulent. If it were any less than 15% yes-biased fraudulent votes, then the "yes" side would STILL be a majority. It is totally baseless to suggest that 15% of the vote was illegitimate yes votes, and 0% of the vote was illegitimate no votes. Padding happened on both sides, and not nearly enough to influence the outcome.

Read that slowly. I don't want to explain it again.

[Kraschman]

Originally Posted by Ekowraith

Here's what you're not getting, Kraschman. This has been explained over and over.

In order for the poll to have been illegitimate, then there must have been enough account duping that "yes" wouldn't have been a majority. And in order for that to be true, that would have to mean that margin of difference - that 15% of the "yes" votes - were all fraudulent, and none of the "no" votes were fraudulent. If it were any less than 15% yes-biased fraudulent votes, then the "yes" side would STILL be a majority. It is totally baseless to suggest that 15% of the vote was illegitimate yes votes, and 0% of the vote was illegitimate no votes. Padding happened on both sides, and not nearly enough to influence the outcome.

Read that slowly. I don't want to explain it again.

And here's what you're not getting...

We have no evidence whatsoever what percentage of yes votes or no votes out of the total were duped. Could be a small percentage, could be much closer to 100%. We have no solid numbers, except for probable fraud on one or both sides. Unless you have solid evidence as to the veracity of any of the numbers, not just the last few minutes of the vote, then the vote is suspect in its entirety.

Chuck it until you get solid numbers, simple.

Your continued harping on the 15% seems to imply that you assume the rest of the votes were legit. Of that we have no proof.

[Ekowraith]

Originally Posted by Kraschman

And here's what you're not getting...

We have no evidence whatsoever what percentage of yes votes or no votes out of the total were duped. Could be a small percentage, could be much closer to 100%. We have no solid numbers, except for probable fraud on one or both sides. Unless you have solid evidence as to the veracity of any of the numbers, not just the last few minutes of the vote, then the vote is suspect in its entirety.

Chuck it until you get solid numbers, simple.

Your continued harping on the 15% seems to imply that you assume the rest of the votes were legit. Of that we have no proof.

With more than one hundred pages of active discussion on this issue between the two threads makes it abundantly clear that community involvement was high and that an overwhelming majority of the votes came from distinct individuals. You not only have the burden of proving these accusations of fraudulence, but you also have to explain why vote padding might have occurred unequally.