TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09

[Oru]

I think there has been some miss-communication. We are definitely listening to the community and that is why we were very serious about the zero-tolerancy towards the exploiters. After we made the decision, we have realized that this will hinder the project while we are in development. That being said we lighten the policy up so we give a second chance for them so they can help fill in these holes. However this does not mean they can cheat, grief or exploit anymore! These things will go privately and not on the public test center. In case they are caught again, we say goodbye to them for good.

I hope this will help understand why we have come to this decision. Besides our will to step up against hackers, this will benefit everyone in the long run.

[torbjorn]

Originally Posted by Oru

I think there has been some miss-communication. We are definitely listening to the community and that is why we were very serious about the zero-tolerancy towards the exploiters. After we made the decision, we have realized that this will hinder the project while we are in development. That being said we lighten the policy up so we give a second chance for them so they can help fill in these holes. However this does not mean they can cheat, grief or exploit anymore! These things will go privately and not on the public test center. In case they are caught again, we say goodbye to them for good.

I hope this will help understand why we have come to this decision. Besides our will to step up against hackers, this will benefit everyone in the long run.

This is chance number 3? maybe even a higher number? For ashur.

How many will he get? Editing the client is against the EULA (SoE's EULA), and that is what Ashur has been doing.

[Valkyra]

Originally Posted by Oru

I think there has been some miss-communication. We are definitely listening to the community and that is why we were very serious about the zero-tolerancy towards the exploiters. After we made the decision, we have realized that this will hinder the project while we are in development. That being said we lighten the policy up so we give a second chance for them so they can help fill in these holes. However this does not mean they can cheat, grief or exploit anymore! These things will go privately and not on the public test center. In case they are caught again, we say goodbye to them for good.

I hope this will help understand why we have come to this decision. Besides our will to step up against hackers, this will benefit everyone in the long run.

Frankly, I don't agree with any of this. At all.

Ok, so why was there no post of any kind made about this in the staff forum for the entire staff to decide upon? It's pretty much just what the higher-ups decided, as I only see them posting in this thread how this is a great idea.

Maybe people don't know this, but a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy is just that. ZERO tolerance. It doesn't mean you can just ban people then go back and say "Oh wait, let's unban these griefing hackers, OH WAIT! Let's give them a staff position to find our exploits! The community will never know."

These are not the kind of people to be given staff privileges to. Sosko, one of the leaders of STORM, crashed the SWGEmu ventrilo several times, harassed members via Ventrilo exploits, then he comes on the IRC and ban evades MANY times, spewing his slander, lies, and rage.

But wait, you guys see fit to not only UNBAN them (which goes against the policy we enstated as a TEAM in the first place), but give them staff positions, since OUR QA TEAM WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH IN FINDING EXPLOITS.

So let me get this straight again.

"I'm Ashur, a retard that loves to flame on the forums, cause a TON of grief in game too and I love hacking! I was banned because of this, but I kissed enough ass to not only get unbanned, but get a staff position too!"

That's EXACTLY how it seems.


There's so much wrong with this.

A. You don't just make such an important decision to those who have higher leverage in the staff.
B. You don't go back on a global policy that we all decided.
C. STORM guild is retarded, full of griefing hackers, EVERYONE KNOWS IT, and you unban them and give them staff positions.


...

This has to be the biggest troll of all time.

[Fierce]

Originally Posted by valkyra

a. You don't just make such an important decision to those who have higher leverage in the staff.
B. You don't go back on a global policy that we all decided.
C. Storm guild is retarded, full of griefing hackers, everyone knows it, and you unban them and give them staff positions.

co-co-co-combo!!!!

[zetlaux]

Originally Posted by Valkyra

Frankly, I don't agree with any of this. At all.

Ok, so why was there no post of any kind made about this in the staff forum for the entire staff to decide upon? It's pretty much just what the higher-ups decided, as I only see them posting in this thread how this is a great idea.

Maybe people don't know this, but a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy is just that. ZERO tolerance. It doesn't mean you can just ban people then go back and say "Oh wait, let's unban these griefing hackers, OH WAIT! Let's give them a staff position to find our exploits! The community will never know."

These are not the kind of people to be given staff privileges to. Sosko, one of the leaders of STORM, crashed the SWGEmu ventrilo several times, harassed members via Ventrilo exploits, then he comes on the IRC and ban evades MANY times, spewing his slander, lies, and rage.

But wait, you guys see fit to not only UNBAN them (which goes against the policy we enstated as a TEAM in the first place), but give them staff positions, since OUR QA TEAM WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH IN FINDING EXPLOITS.

So let me get this straight again.

"I'm Ashur, a retard that loves to flame on the forums, cause a TON of grief in game too and I love hacking! I was banned because of this, but I kissed enough ass to not only get unbanned, but get a staff position too!"

That's EXACTLY how it seems.


There's so much wrong with this.

A. You don't just make such an important decision to those who have higher leverage in the staff.
B. You don't go back on a global policy that we all decided.
C. STORM guild is retarded, full of griefing hackers, EVERYONE KNOWS IT, and you unban them and give them staff positions.


...

This has to be the biggest troll of all time.

Thinking about it like that, given the history of these individuals cited, I have to agree that Valkyra has some legitimate points here. These people do not need to be staff, they need to be on the staff's leash, licking their boots while they sniff out exploits. Only upon finding an exploit do we then give them 1 (and not more than 1) tootsie roll- then we kick them in the kidney and make them keep sniffing. Their forum titles should be "Slave Exploit Sniffers."

[roodypooh]

Originally Posted by zetlaux

Thinking about it like that, given the history of these individuals cited, I have to agree that Valkyra has some legitimate points here. These people do not need to be staff, they need to be on the staff's leash, licking their boots while they sniff out exploits. Only upon finding an exploit do we then give them 1 (and not more than 1) tootsie roll- then we kick them in the kidney and make them keep sniffing. Their forum titles should be "Slave Exploit Sniffers."

Sadly its pretty clear that they don't give a damn about what anyone says. they pretty much made that clear when they just started unbanning and promoting without any discussion with the rest of the staff.


So much for all that talk from them awhile back that they don't play favorites and treat every member of the community the same.

To all the staff who have come out against these decisions openly in te community or even in private to your fellow staff members you guys have my full support on this.

To the staff who pulled this crap i say i guess the community was right with the playing favorites and letting them <storm> do what they want with no worries about anything happening to them.

i guess treating your fellow community members like **** will eventually lead to staff positions in the future for anyone interested in applying.

[Oru]

Originally Posted by Valkyra

Frankly, I don't agree with any of this. At all.

Ok, so why was there no post of any kind made about this in the staff forum for the entire staff to decide upon? It's pretty much just what the higher-ups decided, as I only see them posting in this thread how this is a great idea.

Maybe people don't know this, but a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy is just that. ZERO tolerance. It doesn't mean you can just ban people then go back and say "Oh wait, let's unban these griefing hackers, OH WAIT! Let's give them a staff position to find our exploits! The community will never know."

These are not the kind of people to be given staff privileges to. Sosko, one of the leaders of STORM, crashed the SWGEmu ventrilo several times, harassed members via Ventrilo exploits, then he comes on the IRC and ban evades MANY times, spewing his slander, lies, and rage.

But wait, you guys see fit to not only UNBAN them (which goes against the policy we enstated as a TEAM in the first place), but give them staff positions, since OUR QA TEAM WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH IN FINDING EXPLOITS.

So let me get this straight again.

"I'm Ashur, a retard that loves to flame on the forums, cause a TON of grief in game too and I love hacking! I was banned because of this, but I kissed enough ass to not only get unbanned, but get a staff position too!"

That's EXACTLY how it seems.


There's so much wrong with this.

A. You don't just make such an important decision to those who have higher leverage in the staff.
B. You don't go back on a global policy that we all decided.
C. STORM guild is retarded, full of griefing hackers, EVERYONE KNOWS IT, and you unban them and give them staff positions.


...

This has to be the biggest troll of all time.

I can't speak on behalf of the whole team but when this idea came to my table, i said go with zero-tolerance without any hesitation. Then some of the developers raised their voices, how are we going to find these exploits if we restrict and punish these hackers. On the other hand we must eliminate the system being used for their advantage and provide a good testing environment for all the other players.

So we have adjusted the policy. Was it a rushed decision? Probably. Is there a chance we adjust it even further. Of course! I'am trying to be as open-minded as possible and you should rather come to me directly instead of going to public with complaints like this. The problems raised by many of you here is noted and being considered. It has a valid point, that we should use someone else for the job then the given individuals.

[Aeden]

Originally Posted by Oru

I can't speak on behalf of the whole team but when this idea came to my table, i said go with zero-tolerance without any hesitation. Then some of the developers raised their voices, how are we going to find these exploits if we restrict and punish these hackers. On the other hand we must eliminate the system being used for their advantage and provide a good testing environment for all the other players.

So we have adjusted the policy. Was it a rushed decision? Probably. Is there a chance we adjust it even further. Of course! I'am trying to be as open-minded as possible and you should rather come to me directly instead of going to public with complaints like this. The problems raised by many of you here is noted and being considered. It has a valid point, that we should use someone else for the job then the given individuals.

Amen

[Tigerfang]

Originally Posted by Aeden

Amen

agreed

[sXeKJB]

Originally Posted by Oru

I can't speak on behalf of the whole team but when this idea came to my table, i said go with zero-tolerance without any hesitation. Then some of the developers raised their voices, how are we going to find these exploits if we restrict and punish these hackers. On the other hand we must eliminate the system being used for their advantage and provide a good testing environment for all the other players.

So we have adjusted the policy. Was it a rushed decision? Probably. Is there a chance we adjust it even further. Of course! I'am trying to be as open-minded as possible and you should rather come to me directly instead of going to public with complaints like this. The problems raised by many of you here is noted and being considered. It has a valid point, that we should use someone else for the job then the given individuals.

Why shouldn't people of the community, whether apart of the development or not, not be able to speak their opinion on a public forum?

I'm for having a hack/exploitation/vulnerability test team of some sort, but like others have said, they did not use their abilities ethically in the first place, therefore I agree with others that if they want to do exploit testing with these players who have not been trustworthy, it should be on a separate private server to keep it private. I think it would have been more wise to create a team from scratch who can prove they are qualified and trustworthy to test and report exploits; also, and asking for people to hack/exploit to get the ability to be apart of this team may not be a wise decision, does this include sending DoS attacks?

[Wolverine79]

Originally Posted by Oru

I can't speak on behalf of the whole team but when this idea came to my table, i said go with zero-tolerance without any hesitation. Then some of the developers raised their voices, how are we going to find these exploits if we restrict and punish these hackers. On the other hand we must eliminate the system being used for their advantage and provide a good testing environment for all the other players.

So we have adjusted the policy. Was it a rushed decision? Probably. Is there a chance we adjust it even further. Of course! I'am trying to be as open-minded as possible and you should rather come to me directly instead of going to public with complaints like this. The problems raised by many of you here is noted and being considered. It has a valid point, that we should use someone else for the job then the given individuals.

Why a good dev showed proof of your corruption. How about hackers leaking info on you guys because they wanna show off.

Val and Max and others that are here working with the project and the community we stand behind you. Its the corrupted one looking out for friends and don't care about the community that is really sad. These hackers have no respect for you guys or the community. I mean they call you guys the scrubs of the team. I mean thats bold.

In knowing they over turned Ashur and crew is just more proof of how corrupt they are without voting or talking it over with the full team/staff.

I am deeply disappointed in the lies and cover up. I agree also having a team to find and fix the exploits and ways of hacking is great but having these people that were caught using them and greifing and now bring back from banning and given special titles from the corrupted part of the staff is just amazing.

[Jondo]

Originally Posted by Valkyra

These are not the kind of people to be given staff privileges to.

C. STORM guild is retarded, full of griefing hackers, EVERYONE KNOWS IT, and you unban them and give them staff positions.

Here is actual proof that Valkyra's own guild uses exploits to advance to Jedi:



The irony is: this is THEIR video... (Don't bother taking down your video like NINE did, we have it recorded and will upload it ourselves if you attempt to hide the truth.)

You can hear one of them order the "disease bug" to be used early in the video (:36). Then at the end, they request the "disease bug" again on Mel. "Uh Oh, we have a problem. We're gonna need that disease bug now", guy says (3:30). "Its coming...its coming... if it loads" other guy says. You can see them apply the disease to Mel, then the video fades to black. Scene opens with Mel corpsed.

*THAT IS ACTUAL PROOF OF A GUILD EXPLOITING FOR JEDI FAME*

Valk, I don't know you, but you call STORM retarded? Far as I know they don't post videos of their exploits.

You, sir, are the retard for being STAFF and using abusive insulting and inflammatory remarks directed at players. If this was the "Real" internet, you would have just lost your job... As you grow into an adult, maybe you can take that as a lesson, dunno?

So... what kind of people do YOU think staff positions should be given to?

first and last post,
Jondo out

[GestorterEngel]

Originally Posted by Jondo

Here is actual proof that Valkyra's own guild uses exploits to advance to Jedi:



The irony is: this is THEIR video... (Don't bother taking down your video like NINE did, we have it recorded and will upload it ourselves if you attempt to hide the truth.)

You can hear one of them order the "disease bug" to be used early in the video (:36). Then at the end, they request the "disease bug" again on Mel. "Uh Oh, we have a problem. We're gonna need that disease bug now", guy says (3:30). "Its coming...its coming... if it loads" other guy says. You can see them apply the disease to Mel, then the video fades to black. Scene opens with Mel corpsed.

*THAT IS ACTUAL PROOF OF A GUILD EXPLOITING FOR JEDI FAME*

Valk, I don't know you, but you call STORM retarded? Far as I know they don't post videos of their exploits.

You, sir, are the retard for being STAFF and using abusive insulting and inflammatory remarks directed at players. If this was the "Real" internet, you would have just lost your job... As you grow into an adult, maybe you can take that as a lesson, dunno?

So... what kind of people do YOU think staff positions should be given to?

first and last post,
Jondo out

Jondo, as much as I <3 you. I'm stepping in on this one. Get your facts straight first. The bug was reported by the person who found it, and he is the only one who knows how to make this said bug, and he isn't making it for anyone or passing it out. Also the person yelling to use the bug is not in the guild anymore, reasons undisclosed. There's a big difference in using a bugged disease, than using a third party program for speed hacking and purposely abusing it. The person who was calling out the bug in Vent that day had no right to try and get anyone to use this, and was straight up called out and *****ed at for doing so. His idiocy doesn't take account for the whole guild, so don't try to say everyone in StK is "exploiting". The person who found this bug even talked with a QA guy himself about this bug and the guy explained exactly to him how it was done and in no way is it even remotely exploiting anything. A bug is a bug, a program to hack, is just that. Note that ever since this bug was reported, it has not been used. Please get your rumors straight. <3

BTW: Val's not a "sir".

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by Jondo

Here is actual proof that Valkyra's own guild uses exploits to advance to Jedi:



The irony is: this is THEIR video... (Don't bother taking down your video like NINE did, we have it recorded and will upload it ourselves if you attempt to hide the truth.)

You can hear one of them order the "disease bug" to be used early in the video (:36). Then at the end, they request the "disease bug" again on Mel. "Uh Oh, we have a problem. We're gonna need that disease bug now", guy says (3:30). "Its coming...its coming... if it loads" other guy says. You can see them apply the disease to Mel, then the video fades to black. Scene opens with Mel corpsed.

*THAT IS ACTUAL PROOF OF A GUILD EXPLOITING FOR JEDI FAME*

Valk, I don't know you, but you call STORM retarded? Far as I know they don't post videos of their exploits.

You, sir, are the retard for being STAFF and using abusive insulting and inflammatory remarks directed at players. If this was the "Real" internet, you would have just lost your job... As you grow into an adult, maybe you can take that as a lesson, dunno?

So... what kind of people do YOU think staff positions should be given to?

first and last post,
Jondo out

Actually it's not a bug, disease is intentionally (as far as the staff have labled it, unless it's been recently changed?) supposed to lower resists on Malichae over time.

However I question their intent to use a bug, even though they've mislabeled it, for Malichae. In the end I won't pass judgement on something I know nothing about (unlike Storm or Ashur ).

[jermat]

Originally Posted by DraGa

Actually it's not a bug, disease is intentionally (as far as the staff have labled it, unless it's been recently changed?) supposed to lower resists on Malichae over time.

However I question their intent to use a bug, even though they've mislabeled it, for Malichae. In the end I won't pass judgement on something I know nothing about (unlike Storm or Ashur ).

dude seriously are you that ignorant, the cm bug they were using isnt the lower resist thing, its the 1 shot cm bug , notice the enemy go from full to like 1/100k hp is 1 tick, come on get current