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-   -   TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=54674)

waa 04-27-2010 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diehomey! (Post 591903)
I love all the QQ in this thread. You all complain that it's a test center and should be wiped. While this is true, there were no big changes slated for the wipe, just some anti-dupe measures which WILL, not CAN, but WILL be gone against anyway. You then go against your talk about it being a test center and complain that "Durr dupers win!" My warning to you is that if credit and item duping is ruining your testing experience, go play Maple Story. Dupers will always be in the games and will be an ongoing problem. Some of you might say that focusing on dupers, hackers, etc. would take time away from development, but by not putting these measures in effect until the OR wipe they can focus more on the OR which can potentially bring 1.0 faster.

Tl;dr Don't take the test center so seriously. This isn't a cancellation of anti-dupe measures, but a delay as not to waste it on dead code anyway.

Thats like someone telling you, based off of your own wording... "if you like cheating so much, go play CS"

emporter 04-27-2010 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reknos (Post 591861)
Why would you dupe, its a test center and they can wipe without a vote and give no notice anyway? They can delete you account without notice. They pay to provide you to test. It being a test server duping items wouldn't really matter in the long run anyway so duping shouldn't matter because the stuff your duping is not even yours. stop whining, your going to lose your "stuff" if your testing on the Emu no matter what.

tldr; dont dupe, donate, don't whine, contribute to the community.

Um... I was just making a joke, Rek.

I must have really liked the original game to put up with the same crap twice now -- and I'm not talking about the dev team.

Jason2444 04-27-2010 09:02 PM

Wipe or no wipe, the emu is making progress so i really dont care

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 591911)
OR the assumption could be made that infractions were made by both sides and were enough to alter the outcome. One could assume any number of possible outcomes.

In the absence of firm evidence one way or the other, chuck the vote and go with the status quo until you can get solid numbers.

Here's what you're not getting, Kraschman. This has been explained over and over.

In order for the poll to have been illegitimate, then there must have been enough account duping that "yes" wouldn't have been a majority. And in order for that to be true, that would have to mean that margin of difference - that 15% of the "yes" votes - were all fraudulent, and none of the "no" votes were fraudulent. If it were any less than 15% yes-biased fraudulent votes, then the "yes" side would STILL be a majority. It is totally baseless to suggest that 15% of the vote was illegitimate yes votes, and 0% of the vote was illegitimate no votes. Padding happened on both sides, and not nearly enough to influence the outcome.

Read that slowly. I don't want to explain it again.

Tyrinius 04-27-2010 09:04 PM

I have no problem with the DEVs deciding what happens with the server, we are testers, and we are happy to even have a server to test/play on.
But next time don't ask us if you just ignore it.
I'm very disappointed. It is clear that the majority wanted the wipe.
Forget that 66% rule that never made much any sense anyway tbh. The majority wanted it. End of discussion.
It's just insane

Yo-landi 04-27-2010 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waa (Post 591899)
The bank removal was confirmed by staff to have been false in the other thread.

If this is true then they had NO fix for the dupe issue..because there is no fix for the dupe issue. SOE ran the game for years and they will confirm..there is no fix for the dupe issue. The solution was to ban accounts. So either there is a fib in a "fix" or a fib in the bank removal. Either way one of the two stories is a lie or just a clueless kneejerk response. Anyway I digress.

Thank goodness intelligence prevailed.

betwoobly 04-27-2010 09:06 PM

Thought you wouldn't "pander to the QQers".

Very disappointed.

Arien 04-27-2010 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591866)
Guys! We have our first STAFF response to this issue, over in the "Nothing's really changed" thread! :)




Thanks, STAFF! We appreciate it. You guys are awfully consistent addressing the most eminent concerns within the community. For a brief moment, the reliability and trustworthiness of the staff came into question. Some people raised questions such as "Is the staff internally coherent?" "How can a donation-based project remain accountable to its players?" "Why would you actively contradict the majority of players?" As usual, you have swooped in to swiftly correct the error to restore the community's faith.

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthr...t=54683&page=3

That mod needs to have his status revoked. He's showcasing exactly what everyone is currently up in arms about. This is the kind of person that ruins credibility even more.

If you can't be professional you don't deserve the title. Thats shameful.

Alamar01 04-27-2010 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yo-landi (Post 591895)
Honestly be careful what you wish for..

Did you realize the wipe would result in the Bank being removed from game?

As soon as the Wipe people got the wipe they would then cry for the bank to be returned..which returns the dupe and other bugs.

Very illogical to wipe when there is no "real fix" being implemented.

I don't think most of the "wipe" people (I guess I am included in this group) would cry because there wouldnt be a bank after wipe. I'd venture to guess that most of the "wipe" people are emu veterans who likely played previous to TC Nova. Many players remmeber there not being a bank in the first place, or crafting, or planets other than Tatooine, or vehicles, or trainers other than blue frogs (yes Blue Frogs...they had em on TC Nova as well not that entirely long ago), or much of anything outside of Anchorhead.

That said, I think most of the people who voted for a wipe knew this (mainly from reading it) and would be fine.

As far as the whole jumping ship talk, threatening to leave, and qqing/flaming due to the initial discussion of a wipe and now after the wipe was scrapped -- We need to move on...chill out, have fun, and take something possitive as an individual from this event move on.

paelen 04-27-2010 09:08 PM

I am glad for a final decision. Its curious why they did not go the route of the poll's majority. Never-the-less moving forward. Thanks.

I voted 'yes'. Good to go with or without frogs for two masters. Just basically looking for a clean game without dupes. I'm guessing we all were.

Kraschman 04-27-2010 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591920)
Here's what you're not getting, Kraschman. This has been explained over and over.

In order for the poll to have been illegitimate, then there must have been enough account duping that "yes" wouldn't have been a majority. And in order for that to be true, that would have to mean that margin of difference - that 15% of the "yes" votes - were all fraudulent, and none of the "no" votes were fraudulent. If it were any less than 15% yes-biased fraudulent votes, then the "yes" side would STILL be a majority. It is totally baseless to suggest that 15% of the vote was illegitimate yes votes, and 0% of the vote was illegitimate no votes. Padding happened on both sides, and not nearly enough to influence the outcome.

Read that slowly. I don't want to explain it again.

And here's what you're not getting...

We have no evidence whatsoever what percentage of yes votes or no votes out of the total were duped. Could be a small percentage, could be much closer to 100%. We have no solid numbers, except for probable fraud on one or both sides. Unless you have solid evidence as to the veracity of any of the numbers, not just the last few minutes of the vote, then the vote is suspect in its entirety.

Chuck it until you get solid numbers, simple.

Your continued harping on the 15% seems to imply that you assume the rest of the votes were legit. Of that we have no proof.

Yo-landi 04-27-2010 09:10 PM

Agree Alamar..either way I am still playing. I do like to see LOGIC to prevail in situation and the outcome of this situation shows the Devs here are 100x the Devs at SOE. If nothing else it shows us they are going to make the right choices no matter what the base wants..and that is how it should be ESPECIALLY since it is not pay to play.

Yo-landi 04-27-2010 09:12 PM

Kraschman...when there are group mission groups of 20+ people out on yavin doing missions and it is not being addressed....no poll from the userbase is viable. I cannot speak o where those people voted but it is definately a skewed poll. Since there is no proof which way it is skewed.....then let things be.

Arien 04-27-2010 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yo-landi (Post 591939)
If nothing else it shows us they are going to make the right choices no matter what the base wants..

Thats funny. The heads at SOE thought that they were doing the right thing despite what the players were saying.

Arulius 04-27-2010 09:13 PM

For those of you that think the final outcome was 66% majority to wipe are seriously confused. The Devs were GOING to leave the poll open for 2 weeks, so the vote was NEVER final. It could have went either way.
They saw the polls were getting out of hand, and were being manipulated by people from both sides of the argument. As well as tearing the community apart.
What we did in the end was screw ourselves though. Never again will they ask us for our input on such a thing. Something SOE NEVER did, so comparing the EMU team to them is a slap in the face. We owe them alot more respect than that.
What we did learn was how passionate all the players are. I doubt we will lose 1000 players, maybe at first some people wont play, but they will be back eventually.

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 591938)
And here's what you're not getting...

We have no evidence whatsoever what percentage of yes votes or no votes out of the total were duped. Could be a small percentage, could be much closer to 100%. We have no solid numbers, except for probable fraud on one or both sides. Unless you have solid evidence as to the veracity of any of the numbers, not just the last few minutes of the vote, then the vote is suspect in its entirety.

Chuck it until you get solid numbers, simple.

Your continued harping on the 15% seems to imply that you assume the rest of the votes were legit. Of that we have no proof.

With more than one hundred pages of active discussion on this issue between the two threads makes it abundantly clear that community involvement was high and that an overwhelming majority of the votes came from distinct individuals. You not only have the burden of proving these accusations of fraudulence, but you also have to explain why vote padding might have occurred unequally.

Yo-landi 04-27-2010 09:14 PM

But I wills ay this whole wipe thing i TONS better than me going into IRC during a deadlock and hollering WIPE. WAY better response here lol.

Kraschman 04-27-2010 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yo-landi (Post 591945)
Kraschman...when there are group mission groups of 20+ people out on yavin doing missions and it is not being addressed....no poll from the userbase is viable. I cannot speak o where those people voted but it is definately a skewed poll. Since there is no proof which way it is skewed.....then let things be.

Exactly my point. Lacking solid evidence as to the real numbers, chuck the vote and keep the status quo for now.

Yo-landi 04-27-2010 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arien (Post 591946)
Thats funny. The heads at SOE thought that they were doing the right thing despite what the players were saying.

SOE is for profit..this is not. NFP is very different from profit. SOE was bent to the desires of Lucas..here not so much. You have a right to cry paying 15 a month x 4 accounts. Here..not so much.;)

Newsound 04-27-2010 09:18 PM

To get bent out of shape over a wipe on a TC is just.... crazy to me.

To the team...

To me the backing down is a bit worrying. This to me could be the start of a slippery slope. It is your server to with what you see fit. Yes, totally alliterating your community is not a good thing at the same time you are not a corporation, you don't have a board of directors and there are no share holders. Do what needs to be done. You will NEVER please everybody. The staff here needs to do what they feel is best for the project as a whole. Not what a bunch of random posters on a forum say. This is what started the whole down turn of SWG in the first place.

Polls on forums and forums themselves are not accurate representation of your community, people will make multiple accounts till they pass out just so their point of view wins.

We have you all to thank for building this game again, we should be thankful for these opportunities. Until this all goes public we play by your rules, not the other way around. Your server(s) your rules. if the community doesn't like your rules they can start up their own servers. I thought that was the staffs stance on everything, or has that changed?

Just concerned a bit.

Rebelexterminator 04-27-2010 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yo-landi (Post 591953)
SOE is for profit..this is not. NFP is very different from profit. SOE was bent to the desires of Lucas..here not so much. You have a right to cry paying 15 a month x 4 accounts. Here..not so much.;)

Whats your f'ing point wise guy? None of that BS means they are making the right choice.

Arien 04-27-2010 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yo-landi (Post 591953)
SOE is for profit..this is not. NFP is very different from profit. SOE was bent to the desires of Lucas..here not so much. You have a right to cry paying 15 a month x 4 accounts. Here..not so much.;)

This has nothing to do with profit. It has to do with the level of professionalism we're seeing.

I have every right to voice my opinion and i'll continue to do so as long as this is an open forum.

cru jodo 04-27-2010 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591949)
With more than one hundred pages of active discussion on this issue between the two threads makes it abundantly clear that community involvement was high and that an overwhelming majority of the votes came from distinct individuals. You not only have the burden of proving these accusations of fraudulence, but you also have to explain why vote padding might have occurred unequally.

The "yes" vote was at 75% when a sudden flood of almost constant no votes for hours began.

The sudden no vote happened in a time span of hours when an irregular number of new accounts where created.

The people who have the most to lose, dupers, have the most to gain if the "no" vote wins.

Dupers already by their very nature are in the habit of using methods against the rules to achieve something they want.

As some testers pointed out the fact that there happened to be an extremely high statistical trend in no votes and an unusually high number of new accounts, Moderator Staff ,Insultingly, declared that that was a physical impossibility.

Then fueling an army of trolls, the staff member led the forums to publicly mock those that cited basic evidence to a relevant problem.

Not long after, other staff members deleted posts made by those citing such evidence. However, the off-topic posts, mocking those that had only wished to maintain the votes credibility remained on the thread.

Hours later the thread is locked, and later the decision made to negate the poll, based on community solidarity and credibility.

Now as i said before, as raging as I am at everything thats happening, the only thing i blame staff for is simply not being honest with the community, and not letting us know sooner that the problems that let to consideration of a wipe were not addressed.

Pretending a problem doesn't exist simply because You cannot fix it does more damage. And sometimes the most responsible thing anyone can do is ask for help.

There are a large number of qualified persons on the TC who enjoy this project so much that they would have volunteered to work for the staff to police these problems. All staff had to do was ask.

And even as angry or kneejerk as the community seems at this point, I bet if you asked, You would get the help from people with the time and knowhow to act while allowing the current team to worry about the OR.

waa 04-27-2010 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arulius (Post 591948)
For those of you that think the final outcome was 66% majority to wipe are seriously confused. The Devs were GOING to leave the poll open for 2 weeks, so the vote was NEVER final. It could have went either way.
They saw the polls were getting out of hand, and were being manipulated by people from both sides of the argument. As well as tearing the community apart.

eh?

till it got deleted I saw postings by staff along the lines that it wasn't being manipulated either way, and wrote it off as conspiracy theorist jargon


On a side note, there is a reason that thread got deleted...go figure as to why.

John Smedley would be proud !

Shadow2k 04-27-2010 09:31 PM

I think the Devs should shut TC down for a month. I think too many people are taking this project for granted at this time. Teach them a valuable lesson, let their cries fall on deaf ears for a month while you guys take a break. Seriously. I want to play as much as anyone, but this is just ridiculous.

You guys cried for a wipe due to the economy of a Test Center. The economy of a Test Center! Wow, that's brilliant.

I really don't care if they wipe it or not. At this point I hope they do just to shut you all up. But I hope they shut it down for a month first, just to prove a point. That it is not your right to determine what goes on with their project.

They asked for your feedback, you acted like little brats. Much like is happening now. No wonder they don't want to listen to you, who could blame them?

alexiskool12345 04-27-2010 09:33 PM

What a surprise. majority says wipe so it's 100% fraud for just the side in favor of the wipe, despite the obviousness of people making new accounts saying not to wipe.

I won't be surprised when these same tards start *****ing about wanting to transfer their characters over to the real deal when the time comes.

Kraschman 04-27-2010 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591949)
With more than one hundred pages of active discussion on this issue between the two threads makes it abundantly clear that community involvement was high and that an overwhelming majority of the votes came from distinct individuals. You not only have the burden of proving these accusations of fraudulence, but you also have to explain why vote padding might have occurred unequally.

The first part is not in dispute, but you have no proof as to how many votes came from distinct individuals. You can assume they are, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

Hazel Kyria 04-27-2010 09:38 PM

I pretty much see every point I was thinking having been made here. But I just recently came from a game where the single dev seemed to be in his own world, ignoring suggestions and adding stuff no one wanted.

I know the forums might not be accurate, but I personally believe that without all this alt-forum account stuff that the majority of people would've voted for a reset...

This is a test server right?

Cayden Maverick 04-27-2010 09:42 PM

It seems some people failed to realize when they downloaded and joined the test server that it was never intended to stay up for any real length of time, and that what they do on the server could all be erased in a wipe that the developers need to make in order to further the production of this server.

By not wiping, they're forcing to prolong the final development of Suncrusher and releasing the source for other private servers to duplicate Suncrusher and make their own galaxy.

Those of you that are whining and crying about a wipe need to realize that this server isn't about you, but about the whole of the project. What you do on it is your business, but its secondary when it comes to the desires and needs of this development team.

I personally don't understand why they polled the wipe, and didn't just post an item saying "At this time, we are wiping the server." An apology isn't even necessary since anyone who joined the server should have read that Nova is a test server and wipes WILL happen. God forbid any of you encounter events where things don't go according to your plan, and inconvenience you.

Shadow2k 04-27-2010 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cayden Maverick (Post 592026)
By not wiping, they're forcing to prolong the final development of Suncrusher and releasing the source for other private servers to duplicate Suncrusher and make their own galaxy.

You have that backwards. If they needed to wipe the server to further the project, they'd do so without asking. This was all about people crying about the economy, nothing more. It actually would have taken a couple days to do the wipe. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but still exactly opposite of what you are claiming.

Jahruh 04-27-2010 09:52 PM

late april fools?

Arnold47525 04-27-2010 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy09 (Post 591705)
1st off all i have not read all of the post's ill get back to you on that, but WTF R U GUYS PLAYING @ , I how nasty is that stunt you guys just pulled off.

another time when 600 voices are louder than 2000.

To whom do you talk to and why in such disrespectable manner?
You clearly stated that you don't read all of the posts, so why don't just read, think and then talk instead doing reverse?
Acting like that might hurts your reputation, which may doesn't bother you. But it also can hurt the reputation of the team which logo bears your sig, which should bother you.
Someone could argue there are more of your kind over there.

Alamar01 04-27-2010 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arien (Post 591971)
This has nothing to do with profit. It has to do with the level of professionalism we're seeing.

I have every right to voice my opinion and i'll continue to do so as long as this is an open forum.

Please code your own SWG emu from scratch and chill out with the whole "not professional" talk.

Ruledo 04-27-2010 10:03 PM

OK, who was stuffing the ballot boxes? lol

cRush 04-27-2010 10:04 PM

Did you guys ever stop to think that we were being honest, but we are human, and weren't capable of having perfect foresight thus realized our mistakes after our proposal?

auron508 04-27-2010 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alamar01 (Post 592080)
Please code your own SWG emu from scratch and chill out with the whole "not professional" talk.

This is my thought as well. If you don't like things here, go make your own Pre-CU server. If not, shut up and play the FREE product you're getting

Alamar01 04-27-2010 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow2k (Post 591996)
I think the Devs should shut TC down for a month. I think too many people are taking this project for granted at this time. Teach them a valuable lesson, let their cries fall on deaf ears for a month while you guys take a break. Seriously. I want to play as much as anyone, but this is just ridiculous.

You guys cried for a wipe due to the economy of a Test Center. The economy of a Test Center! Wow, that's brilliant.

I really don't care if they wipe it or not. At this point I hope they do just to shut you all up. But I hope they shut it down for a month first, just to prove a point. That it is not your right to determine what goes on with their project.

They asked for your feedback, you acted like little brats. Much like is happening now. No wonder they don't want to listen to you, who could blame them?

Holy Pete! This makes sense! Shadow I salute you. Like I' and many others have harped on many times in the past, too many people are treating this TC as a full release game that somehow they are entitled to...

shilo 04-27-2010 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRush (Post 592089)
Did you guys ever stop to think that we were being honest, but we are human, and weren't capable of having perfect foresight thus realized our mistakes after our proposal?

Ill give you this man. Unlike SOE you guys actually apologize!! good on you!

Alamar01 04-27-2010 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRush (Post 592089)
Did you guys ever stop to think that we were being honest, but we are human, and weren't capable of having perfect foresight thus realized our mistakes after our proposal?

Some did and clearly some did not. I thank the staff for even offering up a poll in the first place when they fully have the right to wipe the server every hour if they wish.

Kraschman 04-27-2010 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRush (Post 592089)
Did you guys ever stop to think that we were being honest, but we are human, and weren't capable of having perfect foresight thus realized our mistakes after our proposal?

That was actually my first thought.

I naturally assume that when you guys tell us stuff, it's actually the truth. It's easier to assume that than to assume conspiracies everywhere.

/salute;


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