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-   -   Forum and Organizational Changes (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=72455)

Nedak 09-13-2010 07:13 PM

Good job, guys.

Elvaron 09-13-2010 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studrandbo (Post 733199)
i have to agree with some here in that the expiration times seem way too long. there is short and there is long and then there is way too long. most of those expiry times are way too long. even if a troller gets slapped over and over again. a three month suspension would work for that troublemaker. i mean, who is gonna remember him after 3 months?
i think the expiry dates should be 3 months and 6 months max. naturally the permanent bans are permanent.
but if someone does some really stupid stuff here, i think a 6 month spanking would be appropriate. not friggen 2 years. and boy do those points add up fast in the new system, especially with 2 year expiry dates!

You realize that the expiry date does not equal the punishment right? I don't see anything with an expiry date of 2 years that gives more than 3 points and that is a 3 weeks ban, not a 2 year ban. And all of those are serious offenses. As in real-world illegal.

Aramis Lionel 09-13-2010 07:40 PM

Very nicely explained and straight forward rule set:)

Kolo.M 09-13-2010 08:30 PM

ya but the POINTS last for 1 year and 2 years. thats the point. you can never get out from under those points. and they do add up to 5 REALLY FAST. so after your 4 point 3 month suspension, you have to basically be a really good boy for 21 months to avoid the permanent ban on your 5th point. like 6 months later and you make a small mistake and get 1 point and then are BANNED FOR LIFE, as it is your 5th point.
thats what i mean by long expiry dates. you may have forgotten what you did 6 months ago and then you get walloped with permaban on a small infraction.

Kolo.M 09-13-2010 08:36 PM

my point is this, if you pay the price for your misdeed, like 3 month suspension, then the points that incurred that penalty should be then wiped. not hanging over your head for the next 21 months.
think about it, you are sitting with 4 points and you get 1 more point for trolling. and by your definition, trolling can mean most anything. i got accused of trolling by making a sardonic reply to a post in a thread that i was already in the discussion on.
that would be a 1 pointer for a quick comment and for that 4 point guy, HE GETS BANNED FOR LIFE on something said in a small post.

Elvaron 09-13-2010 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studrandbo (Post 733232)
ya but the POINTS last for 1 year and 2 years. thats the point. you can never get out from under those points. and they do add up to 5 REALLY FAST. so after your 4 point 3 month suspension, you have to basically be a really good boy for 21 months to avoid the permanent ban on your 5th point. like 6 months later and you make a small mistake and get 1 point and then are BANNED FOR LIFE, as it is your 5th point.
thats what i mean by long expiry dates. you may have forgotten what you did 6 months ago and then you get walloped with permaban on a small infraction.

Well, you know the rules now, just behave by them and you dont get any of those infraction points. Also, the only 4 points rule I see is to try and get someone's account data. Seriously, you want people trying to get into your account get less punished? Serious offense => serious punishment. Back to you.

TAfirehawk 09-13-2010 08:42 PM

We welcome everybody's comments and feedback, but as the first item in the Announcement says, "concerns" are to be handled through concerns@swgemu.com and not on this forum.

The good questions to clarify things will be posted back into the "reserved" posts so it is easier for everybody to see the answers.


Everything we are trying to do is to help development bring back the game that was taken away from us. The choice is yours and yours alone to choose if you want to contribute in a positive manner or wish to be hurtful to the Development Project. Anything from anybody that detracts from the best environment for development, like trolling or any other rule breaking, will not be tolerated because we will not be losing more development time to forum or TC drama again. And YES, anybody includes all Staff, every single person registered on this forum.


The rules are set and apply immediately to this forum and TC: Nova (IRC rules have not been updated yet). Because this is a change in policy for Staff too, there may be some inconsistency for a few days. I ask you to be patient and please bring up any issues in a professional manner and any wrongs will be corrected.

Please follow the rules in all threads and be responsible in reporting possible rule violations. We don't have a staff large enough to patrol every single thread on this forum so we all have to work together to make this a better place for development.

Gelasius 09-13-2010 11:11 PM

do the forum infractions like trolling, bumping, +1 etc... when added up to a ban will that be only to the forums or logging into the game as well? and bumping is a forum infraction???? we all do that on the trade forum.

Dngrzne91 09-14-2010 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gelasius (Post 733299)
do the forum infractions like trolling, bumping, +1 etc... when added up to a ban will that be only to the forums or logging into the game as well? and bumping is a forum infraction???? we all do that on the trade forum.

AMG it's Asher.

fixit6 09-14-2010 02:05 AM

Really, about time. Forums have degenerated incredibly over the past year, my only thoughts are to have a PvP forum section so all the trolls can have their 'fun' there.

One question....with auto infractions, would this not be open to abuse? ie. one guild hates the other so they just slam on report all day long with all their mates.

Lastly, really....I would think that the average poster who doesn't resort to troll like replies: you really shouldn't have much of a problem, if at all.

brandonbp 09-14-2010 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAfirehawk (Post 733241)
We welcome everybody's comments and feedback

Seems this isn't the case.

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72552

Thread closed. No troll. No rules violated. Just closed.

Sorry if I didn't ask the right question or was too gungho about playing the game. I suppose us fans shouldn't get too excited about playing. I'll be more low key and act as if I don't like the project next time.

I don't much like this game. How about you guys? I hope it takes forever to get the OR started. Being a member since 2006, I'm obviously not a big fan of the project since I've been lurking for a mere four years. Damn, why did I act so excited about the OR? I knew I shouldn't have been excited. I knew it wasn't allowed in these forums yet I still acted excited. Dammit. What in the mother of all hell was I thinking?

Sorry to be excited.

I don't expect this post to stay up long since it doesn't say the right things or kiss any of the mod's butts.

fixit6 09-14-2010 03:24 AM

You made a thread, essentially...demanding an OR eta which has been said many times there is none. No one knows, not even the hard working devs, CMs, and GMs.

They alerted us that the OR and wipe is soon already, there really is no need to have thread after thread asking when it will happen. I think that is why it was locked rather than anything else.

brandonbp 09-14-2010 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixit6 (Post 733360)
You made a thread, essentially...demanding an OR eta which has been said many times there is none. No one knows, not even the hard working devs, CMs, and GMs.

They alerted us that the OR and wipe is soon already, there really is no need to have thread after thread asking when it will happen. I think that is why it was locked rather than anything else.

If you read the post then you can see it was meant to be a rah rah sort of post about getting our Pre-CU game on. Not to disparage the work of the devs.

Also, I see lots of posts asking when the OR is going to hit and they aren't immediately closed.

I'm just ready to play the game. Man, I love love love this game and I wanna play. I, like the rest of you, was devastated when they took away the best game ever. I can't imagine how difficult it is to code this stuff to make it like the original. I'm not busting on the devs. I just wanted to tell the players in these forums that I'm so very excited to play and let's do this thing when it gets started.

Daijobu 09-14-2010 05:14 AM

Very good, kepp it up : )
But how about puttin up a Wiki on the page, so Vlada und co can put their guides and co there. Easier to find, modify and manage. Just my 2 cents : )

Vlada 09-14-2010 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gelasius (Post 733299)
do the forum infractions like trolling, bumping, +1 etc... when added up to a ban will that be only to the forums or logging into the game as well? and bumping is a forum infraction???? we all do that on the trade forum.

I'm not sure there that there will be a trade forum after the OR.

TAfirehawk 09-14-2010 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gelasius (Post 733299)
do the forum infractions like trolling, bumping, +1 etc... when added up to a ban will that be only to the forums or logging into the game as well? and bumping is a forum infraction???? we all do that on the trade forum.

We will have to look at special forums like Trade Forums and General areas that will need relaxed rules. Our goal is to keep things orderly for development and those two areas I listed deserve a bit more freedom as they won't bother development.

We don't claim to be perfect in everything we say and we know some tweaking and adjusting might be needed so we always stay open to input.


Quote:

Originally Posted by fixit6 (Post 733338)
Really, about time. Forums have degenerated incredibly over the past year, my only thoughts are to have a PvP forum section so all the trolls can have their 'fun' there.

One question....with auto infractions, would this not be open to abuse? ie. one guild hates the other so they just slam on report all day long with all their mates.

Lastly, really....I would think that the average poster who doesn't resort to troll like replies: you really shouldn't have much of a problem, if at all.

Infractions are still given by Moderators or Managers, but the point where the ban kicks in is automatic at the listed point levels. We don't adjust points for a given rule infraction.


Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonbp (Post 733357)
Seems this isn't the case.

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72552

Thread closed. No troll. No rules violated. Just closed.

Sorry if I didn't ask the right question or was too gungho about playing the game. I suppose us fans shouldn't get too excited about playing. I'll be more low key and act as if I don't like the project next time.

I don't much like this game. How about you guys? I hope it takes forever to get the OR started. Being a member since 2006, I'm obviously not a big fan of the project since I've been lurking for a mere four years. Damn, why did I act so excited about the OR? I knew I shouldn't have been excited. I knew it wasn't allowed in these forums yet I still acted excited. Dammit. What in the mother of all hell was I thinking?

Sorry to be excited.

I don't expect this post to stay up long since it doesn't say the right things or kiss any of the mod's butts.

I haven't talked to IX but my guess is that your thread was viewed as "asking an ETA". Those typically get closed.

At the same time, I have asked everybody to take some time to adjust to the updated rules and infraction system and that includes Staff too.

Please address concerns about staff and management policy to concerns@swgemu.com


Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlada (Post 733388)
I'm not sure there that there will be a trade forum after the OR.

We will have one.

Valkyra 09-14-2010 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dngrzne91 (Post 733331)
AMG it's Asher.

I saw Krash post in a thread earlier too I was like OMG :eek:

Next up will be Elif.

Colest 09-14-2010 12:02 PM

Quote:

2.4 Troll posts or threads. We define troll posts and threads as those which knowingly lead to inflammatory or off-topic messages with the intent of A) provoking other users into a desired emotional response or B) disrupting normal on-topic discussion. 1 point, expires in 9 months
Quote:

2.13 Spam, defined as the re-posting of content repeatedly. Spam includes QFE's without explanation, +1's, Bumps, blatantly off topic posts and "In Before Lock"s. 1 point, expires in 2 weeks
2 Weeks for spamming but 9 Months for trolling? I mean, I've seen Mods troll before not to mention that vague description of trolling would give potential to Mods interpreting it the way they want (i.e. what they or their friends post "isn't" trolling but what others post "is" trolling). Everyone flames at least a little bit and often times it's not a very conscious and deliberate violation of a healthy community. Arguments get heated. Spamming, however, is a conscious violation.

However, I don't think QFE's, bumps, or Inb4 Locks can hardly be considered spamming (largely to do with the fact they aren't "re-posting" content as described by your definition of "spamming") as they aren't (again) the same conscious violation as someone re-posting a thread over and over again.

If it's not too much to ask, I'd like to see some justification behind the specificity of some of these changes (such as the ones I mentioned above).

Colest 09-14-2010 12:05 PM

Also... Call me crazy but I don't think I can edit my post (as I try not to double post).

But I take it our registration dates and sech won't transfer? I like seeing my registration as it reminds me how long I've been involved with the community.

khamsinvera 09-14-2010 02:32 PM

All this could be solved by simply having a PvP forum where those who want to - can talk smack. Those who do not wish to participate in flame wars can chose to stay out.

It's supposed to be a sandbox game. Except now we are all expected to quietly sit down and make sand cookies with our government approved cookie cutters.

Kicking sand in the face of those who mess with us was part of the fun of SWG!

Maybe I'll get an infraction or the cooties for saying this but ... the new forum rules were probably lifted from the KGB rule book :P

All you're doing is repressing human nature and expecting folks to behave like protocol droids that are lathered in hand sanitizers every other minute

Sol Elo 09-14-2010 03:26 PM

What would Han Solo do?

Colest 09-14-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Elo (Post 733478)
What would Han Solo do?

Shoot first.

Uli 09-14-2010 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colest (Post 733458)
Now do you actually agree with me or are you trying to make a point?

Both.

fixit6 09-14-2010 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khamsinvera (Post 733469)
All this could be solved by simply having a PvP forum where those who want to - can talk smack. Those who do not wish to participate in flame wars can chose to stay out.

It's supposed to be a sandbox game. Except now we are all expected to quietly sit down and make sand cookies with our government approved cookie cutters.

Kicking sand in the face of those who mess with us was part of the fun of SWG!

Maybe I'll get an infraction or the cooties for saying this but ... the new forum rules were probably lifted from the KGB rule book :P

All you're doing is repressing human nature and expecting folks to behave like protocol droids that are lathered in hand sanitizers every other minute

Don't ever recall some the things people say here and often in game back in live. People were far more creative with their insults and rarely resorted to obscene language except maybe in tells. I can start posting screen shots of some the garbage that people say in Cnet if you want; we are talking about stuff that in retail games gets you PERMA BANs, yet here nothing happens...at all. Infact I dare say it's encouraged.

There is a line, dear sir, that should be drawn in that sand you talk about. Cross it, you get banned and I think a good portion of the community will cheer when it happens.

fixit6 09-14-2010 08:00 PM

p.s. (since I cannot edit) I fully support a PvP section, lightly moderated so that all the need to create flamewars is placed there than in the TC one. Rivalry is ok in my books, but it needs a proper place for it.

TAfirehawk 09-14-2010 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khamsinvera (Post 733469)
All this could be solved by simply having a PvP forum where those who want to - can talk smack. Those who do not wish to participate in flame wars can chose to stay out.

It's supposed to be a sandbox game. Except now we are all expected to quietly sit down and make sand cookies with our government approved cookie cutters.

Kicking sand in the face of those who mess with us was part of the fun of SWG!

Maybe I'll get an infraction or the cooties for saying this but ... the new forum rules were probably lifted from the KGB rule book :P

All you're doing is repressing human nature and expecting folks to behave like protocol droids that are lathered in hand sanitizers every other minute

We have a Role Playing forum that is designed for most of what you are asking I believe. We are certainly open to creating new and needed areas if that helps the progress of development.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Colest (Post 733445)
Also... Call me crazy but I don't think I can edit my post (as I try not to double post).

But I take it our registration dates and sech won't transfer? I like seeing my registration as it reminds me how long I've been involved with the community.

As far as I know right now and it isn't complete or fully tested yet, only your name, password and email will transfer. You bring up a good point that maybe we should look into transfering the registration dates as well, but I don't know what is possible or practical.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Colest (Post 733444)
2 Weeks for spamming but 9 Months for trolling? I mean, I've seen Mods troll before not to mention that vague description of trolling would give potential to Mods interpreting it the way they want (i.e. what they or their friends post "isn't" trolling but what others post "is" trolling). Everyone flames at least a little bit and often times it's not a very conscious and deliberate violation of a healthy community. Arguments get heated. Spamming, however, is a conscious violation.

However, I don't think QFE's, bumps, or Inb4 Locks can hardly be considered spamming (largely to do with the fact they aren't "re-posting" content as described by your definition of "spamming") as they aren't (again) the same conscious violation as someone re-posting a thread over and over again.

If it's not too much to ask, I'd like to see some justification behind the specificity of some of these changes (such as the ones I mentioned above).

Those things are considered spam on the SWGEmu services. At the same time it is not our intention to exclude those helpful people from doing just that, helping development. I really don't think that the honest and helpful people will have any fear of being banned.

I will agree that the spam and trolling infraction lengths are not making the most sense right now. We will review this and feel free to bring these concerns up to concerns@swgemu.com

Vlada 09-14-2010 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAfirehawk (Post 733582)
As far as I know right now and it isn't complete or fully tested yet, only your name, password and email will transfer. You bring up a good point that maybe we should look into transfering the registration dates as well, but I don't know what is possible or practical.

If that's the case then there is no point in keeping my name, all I am interested really is my registration date.

Please let us know if that is possible.

Max 09-14-2010 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlada (Post 733595)
If that's the case then there is no point in keeping my name, all I am interested really is my registration date.

Please let us know if that is possible.

It should theoretically be possible, but we will have to talk to Polonel.

Lubbe 09-14-2010 09:39 PM

Yeah it would be nice if we could keep the register day :o

PreCU_or_JarJar_Gets_it 09-14-2010 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max (Post 733613)
It should theoretically be possible, but we will have to talk to Polonel.

Please talk to him :) Have you any idea how annoying it is to type this username out every time I want to log in?

And yeah, I know... If I'd have known at the time that our forum handles and logins would be the same... Oy.

JuN_FaNg 09-14-2010 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixit6 (Post 733573)
p.s. (since I cannot edit) I fully support a PvP section, lightly moderated so that all the need to create flamewars is placed there than in the TC one. Rivalry is ok in my books, but it needs a proper place for it.

A PvP section would have, like, 70% of the posts, since virtualy everything is a motive for a flame war in this forum, even the opening of a PvP section. :D

TAfirehawk 09-14-2010 11:38 PM

I don't mean to speculate, but keeping your registration date would require keeping the same name....as far as I know.

A new account name is a totally new user. Getting your old registration date or anything else on your old account requires your current name and password. That information is then checked against the forum database and then copied over to the other services, including the new forum.

Shoryuu 09-15-2010 01:44 AM

I'm sorry to say this, but this kind of infraction system makes me less interested in playing on this emulator for multiple reasons

A: Not being able to BUMP a trade forum post, resulting in it never being seen by the public after the first day or two.

B: 1.1 Multiple SWGEmu Accounts are not permitted. Each user may only have one account. Measures are incorporated to detect multiple user accounts. Please see the Account Issues Policy for help. 3 points, never expires

If a friend is shown the emulator and creates an account while he is at your house, bam you are now banned for another person not being informed.

C: 2.4 Troll posts or threads. We define troll posts and threads as those which knowingly lead to inflammatory or off-topic messages with the intent of A) provoking other users into a desired emotional response or B) disrupting normal on-topic discussion. 1 point, expires in 9 months

Players used to use the forums to start IN GAME PVP. If you have not noticed, this has gone on IN ORDER TO GET OTHER PLAYERS TO LOGIN TO PVP. It has worked against the following guilds STORM, PROST, NINE, NUA, C, DON, and EVERY other pvp guild. I have to ask, what would you consider a personal attack as someone was recently banned for using the word SLOTH (for a long period of time as well), I have to ask... Will you ever discuss the rule with the person before issuing the infraction? Or just assume they knew what line they crossed?

D: Will there ever be a point in time where these rules are relaxed as it seems these rules are going to do nothing but get people who act like themselves, and not act "FAKE" banned or removed from this emulator. Everyone knows people that get banned find another way to play again.

For what reason was a connection added between in game and on forums? Removing the ability to post, as it was in 14.1, would be a more effective tactic granted removing them from the game only makes it so the player gets even MORE enraged and likely just makes another account after being banned.

I guess the real question is, are you really going to emulate 14.1, or just your version of 14.1? During 14.1, forum bans were not linked to in game bans unless it was not a minor infraction.

Why are minor infractions linked to in game play? Minor infractions should only effect the forums and not time spent in game.

Shoryuu 09-15-2010 01:48 AM

Forgot to add, Will personal vendettas between staff and players continue to hinder the play of certain players who to this day are still banned?

PoisonTaco 09-15-2010 03:07 AM

Whatever helps keep you guys all organized. The easier it is for you guys to keep everything together the easier it will be for you guys to roll out the OR and eventually 1.0!

HeadyGlass 09-15-2010 09:07 AM

I have to agree, I hate the sanctimonious bull that goes on in the forums.
I got infraction points for trying to point out that staff was inciting reactions, then I get jumped on by other staff saying they didn't deserve to be talked to like taht...etc. I got the infraction points for trying to point out spam, not name calling, just pointing out that what staff had said served no purpose other than to incite reactions, classic baiting spam, yet I get infractions and ask why and if others got them and never recieved a response.

Sorry to rant and rave, I just want others to know I have resentment towards these forums too.

khamsinvera 09-15-2010 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAfirehawk (Post 733582)
We have a Role Playing forum that is designed for most of what you are asking I believe. We are certainly open to creating new and needed areas if that helps the progress of development.

I don't think (and I believe that most PvPers will agree) that PvP smack talk has anything to do with Role Playing.

If I'm calling someone a chicken, I'm NOT referring to someone who's standing around in coronet with a "Cluck Cluck" macro handing out Petrified Avian Eggs or Chicken Legs :rolleyes:

mmmm Chicken

Lobreeze 09-15-2010 12:52 PM

lolol PvP forum != roleplay

Decius 09-15-2010 01:02 PM

Everyone knows the emu staff cant take constructive criticism...

Lobreeze 09-15-2010 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decius (Post 733855)
Everyone knows the emu staff cant take constructive criticism...

-staff +mods.

Having an opinion is a ban-able offence around here.


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