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-   -   TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09 (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=33698)

GestorterEngel 10-19-2009 12:03 AM

It does seem like this could be a huge problem if he is let back into the community. I've already had +5 people on vent and more in game talking about quitting if this happens. It seems like it could put a huge damper on the community if this is allowed for Ashor, and other people.

Bostwain 10-19-2009 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roodypooh (Post 440297)
LMAO so basically for hacking AND GRIEFING people in the community who were trying to get thier jedi get rewarded with a kiss and given a position on the staff again.

So much for the change you guys were implimenting....faith unrestored

fixed.

This move is almost as good as SOE announcing the NGE.

So does this mean if I was to pioneer a hack/exploit, get what I want... then tell you about it and help you prevent anyone else from doing it, i would be rewarded with a staff position too?

Tolbat 10-19-2009 12:09 AM

I know some of you have personal opinions of various people involved, however you may not know the full story. I ask that you have patience and trust in our staff members, and developers.

That said, I am sure that if anyone who is unbanned is caught exploiting or hacking for personal gain then they will receive the maximum punishment.

No one is above the rules here.

Thanks.

Tolbat

roodypooh 10-19-2009 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GestorterEngel (Post 440303)
It does seem like this could be a huge problem if he is let back into the community. I've already had +5 people on vent and more in game talking about quitting if this happens. It seems like it could put a huge damper on the community if this is allowed for Ashor, and other people.

sadly this is the same talk goin on in our vent and i'm sure when the rest get on and hear about this alot more will say the same thing

GestorterEngel 10-19-2009 12:12 AM

My problem isn't personal at all. I'd have this problem with anyone who has hacked and was rewarded with a staff position and the ability to freely play the game again with no punishment. My concern is it repeating, and no one wants that to happen.

Anakis 10-19-2009 12:13 AM

As we are still in the Development phase, I don't see a zero-tolerance policy on exploiting being very helpful. From a Development perspective, we NEED players to find these exploits and hacks and inform us about them, so that we can code the server to prevent their use in the future live servers, like Thoop said.

We cannot have players being afraid to find and report such things out of fear of being banned/deleted. We all know that once this is live, there will be plenty of those types hacking away and disrupting play on a live server if they can. We need to find and fix these issues before we get there.

We are definitely not giving the green light here for the exploiters to run wild. What we are saying is that you won't be banned, no questions asked, if you perform an exploit on the TC.

How I interpret this policy change is like this. It is okay to perform an exploit on TC as long as:

1. Your actions are not griefing other players.

2. You immediately (and privately) report all details of how you performed the exploit to the appropriate staff and do not tell anyone else about it.

3. You DO NOT continue to perform the exploit on the TC, even after reporting it.


You find it, you report it, you keep quiet about it to your friends and you don't use it again.

Unfortunately, we have had staff members misbehave in the past. If you think that Staff are not watched for these sort of things, you are mistaken.

Bostwain 10-19-2009 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anakis (Post 440311)
As we are still in the Development phase, I don't see a zero-tolerance policy on exploiting being very helpful. From a Development perspective, we NEED players to find these exploits and hacks and inform us about them, so that we can code the server to prevent their use in the future live servers, like Thoop said.

We cannot have players being afraid to find and report such things out of fear of being banned/deleted. We all know that once this is live, there will be plenty of those types hacking away and disrupting play on a live server if they can. We need to find and fix these issues before we get there.

We are definitely not giving the green light here for the exploiters to run wild. What we are saying is that you won't be banned, no questions asked, if you perform an exploit on the TC.

How I interpret this policy change is like this. It is okay to perform an exploit on TC as long as:

1. Your actions are not griefing other players.

2. You immediately (and privately) report all details of how you performed the exploit to the appropriate staff and do not tell anyone else about it.

3. You DO NOT continue to perform the exploit on the TC, even after reporting it.


You find it, you report it, you keep quiet about it to your friends and you don't use it again.

Unfortunately, we have had staff members misbehave in the past. If you think that Staff are not watched for these sort of things, you are mistaken.

You think ashor immediately reported the explot everytime he hit his speed hack keybind? Also he did not just do it once. both of these making it not okay for what he did by your own words.

GestorterEngel 10-19-2009 12:21 AM

As Bostwain posted above. This person was repeatedly seen hacking, (I don't know if he ever reported it), but he did continuously do it, while griefing many many other players... So yes, somewhat by your own words, what he did wasn't okay...

Note that my only problem here is that he is allowed back into the community after this, with no punishment after (by your own words) doing 1-3.

That is my only concern and that is what I'm rather confused on.

kelharis 10-19-2009 12:24 AM

Is he, or any other member of the team being given information about the inner workings of how the EMU will detect hacks? Because this seems to me like a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house.

What guarantee will there be that these members of the exploitation team won't be simply figuring out how to avoid detection once SC goes live?

Anakis 10-19-2009 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostwain (Post 440314)
You think ashor immediately reported the explot everytime he hit his speed hack keybind? Also he did not just do it once. both of these making it not okay for what he did by your own words.

I am not familiar with the details of what any one person or guild has done, so I can't really comment on his particular case.

But like Kyle said, they approached said persons and gave them the option to cooperate for the good of the project or be banned. It reminds me of how some of the most infamous hackers are hired by the companies they hacked, as security consultants.

Bostwain 10-19-2009 12:27 AM

Yes but wasn't ashor QA already before?

Thoop 10-19-2009 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelharis (Post 440319)
Is he, or any other member of the team being given information about the inner workings of how the EMU will detect hacks? Because this seems to me like a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house.

What guarantee will there be that these members of the exploitation team won't be simply figuring out how to avoid detection once SC goes live?

This is the nature of all open source projects where the code is available online. We must take extra measures to ensure that we produce the greatest final product that we can. There are many extremely talented developers on this team coming up with great ways to prevent and detect these exploits. Any hacks or exploits that come to our attention will have a way of being prevented or detected. The "exploitation team" will not be above these detections.

SomeoneImportant 10-19-2009 12:40 AM

Goes to show with swgemu, as always..if your friends with the team, you'll get places. Even if you're in the wrong..Good going staff, 1 step forward, 5 steps back.

The community should take it into their own hands, anyone who was a part of the speedhacking to jedi, and anyone who continues to do so, should be hunted, killed, grieved, and overall their time on swgemu should be made hell.

hozsnoop 10-19-2009 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GestorterEngel (Post 440310)
My problem isn't personal at all. I'd have this problem with anyone who has hacked and was rewarded with a staff position and the ability to freely play the game again with no punishment. My concern is it repeating, and no one wants that to happen.

When it comes down to it. They have the right to do whatever they want because it's not our server, they own it. They just allow us to play on it. If they want to make a team to stop it i say great. If ashors going to help that's great too. But him and a few others sitting back and laughing at us posting on the forums, also great.. But to be fair if your going to let him back because of this you should let all of storm back with a warning. Fair is fair.

Bostwain 10-19-2009 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thoop (Post 440325)
This is the nature of all open source projects where the code is available online. We must take extra measures to ensure that we produce the greatest final product that we can. There are many extremely talented developers on this team coming up with great ways to prevent and detect these exploits. Any hacks or exploits that come to our attention will have a way of being prevented or detected. The "exploitation team" will not be above these detections.

Can you please show me where to obtain the source?

Also how do I go about joining this exploitation team? I would like to stop the exploitation going on... including what is about to start up again.


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