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-   -   TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=54674)

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 06:50 PM

Potential Staff courses of action:
  • Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly divisive and harmful to the community. It shouldn't be allowed to exist. Let's cut it short to end the fighting, and respect the will of the majority."
  • Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly controversial. This is an issue our community is passionate about. Let's allow it to run its course, and then go with the majority's decision."
  • Sensible! ✔ "Let's not create a poll whose outcomes we can't reasonably respect."
  • Ridiculous! ✘ "Let's cut the poll short prematurely, arbitrarily siding with the minority, tampering with the poll's results and succumbing to a tearful minority!"

loftkilla 04-27-2010 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimiliano (Post 591641)
No one asked or told you to do that m8.

but the vote was like 90% yes

tonsters525 04-27-2010 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold47525 (Post 591311)
From another point of view, whining majority lost. So what?
I'm happy with the outcome that the Devs let the dead horse be the dead horse and continue with OR.
Because all effort putting in the work for the wipe will now return to where it should be first place. And in the end we just ALL win. Plain and simple.

They said it would take to afternoons, that means no time would really be wasted.

Massimiliano 04-27-2010 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftkilla (Post 591644)
but the vote was like 90% yes

ok but there was no reason to delete chars until the wipe.

Duchess 04-27-2010 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlazeHoliday (Post 591636)
We need an explanation or an apology or something. I know I'm going to get the WE DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Then why ask our opinion? Then why ask for our vote? They why cater to the minority? They why have a forum? Why, why, why?

BTW I'm pissed to all hell that we were underminded more then anything. But I'll continue to support SWGemu. But pissed as hell at the SOE move just pulled. To no end. Might not log in to TC for a good while off principle alone.

Well, it is odd that we're not getting much input from the staff at this point. I wouldn't bother getting angry about it but hopefully this was a learning experience that will help them deal with issues better. Even the person with the most honest and positive intentions can end up with the worst results and piss people off. That's why I never discuss my political or other personal views with people. I'd rather know them for who they are then by what they do or what they believe in.

jborrow 04-27-2010 06:51 PM

Just goes to show all the dev fanbois the type of people you put so much faith in. There are no such thing as infallible people, yet the sheeple continue their blindfolded game of follow-the-leader. Keep the donations up, the future is bright. GG.

ps:

b/o soun

loftkilla 04-27-2010 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonsters525 (Post 591645)
They said it would take to afternoons, that means no time would really be wasted.

not only that, b ut wiping the DB could have led to stability improvements so things like my best aror peices and my 10k units of Wehy might not just up and leave the server...

Massimiliano 04-27-2010 06:53 PM

Fact is mankind never learn from the past (doesnt matter the contest)

loftkilla 04-27-2010 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimiliano (Post 591646)
ok but there was no reason to delete chars until the wipe.

ya, but jeez, cmon...A wipe...no matter what the vote...would be good and healthy for the DB stability...

they didnt need a vote to realize that.

but ya, it was like 90% yes....and everyone IG seems to want it.

Mahonra 04-27-2010 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labyrinth (Post 591638)
Technically, the thing they backpedaled on was saying that the poll had too much room for bias, proxies, etc. The actual turn out of votes isn't really relevant to what they did because they didn't wait a whole two weeks like they said they were going to (now who was clamoring for them to just "wrap it up now"? Wasn't that the let's wipe "majority"? Hmm..). I can't help but find it amusing that so many people pissed about what happened are pissed not because of the reneging itself, but because they didn't get their wipe.

Really, as much as people say that the staff went with the "whining minority," keep in mind that whining from a minority was what brought about the poll and the possible user-based decision in the first place. Add to that the fact that the poll results have no proof of being accurate of user opinion in the first place; I remember at least a couple cases easily where someone said that they chose "yes" and then realized afterward that they didn't actually want a wipe.

It all reminds me of the speedhacking situation a while back and how people went bat**** insane because principles such as "cheating" were brought into the argument. "Dupers" seems to be the flavor of the month for riling the memberbase up.

Have you ever taken a moment and read what you actually write? It's almost impossible to follow you.

EVILJUDE 04-27-2010 06:56 PM

the whiny litle *****es always get thier way. shame.

Kraschman 04-27-2010 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591631)
  • That the staff closed the poll and erred on the side of the minority. If it were at all in doubt, why not make the choice that most people favored?


Perhaps because they was doubt that the "most people favoured" figures were any more accurate? If the veracity of the vote is in question, I'd rather they continue with the status quo than go with what may be padded vote numbers.
Quote:

  • That the justifications for closing the poll rewarded the exact bad behavior it claimed to punish. ("No" voters were more likely to have dupe votes because dupers had something to gain by voting no.)


And yes voters would have incentive to dupe votes to make sure the wipe went through.
Quote:

  • That staff very likely changed the poll by adding and removing votes to lessen the severity of their minority-pandering decision.

And you have evidence of this?

SomeoneImportant 04-27-2010 06:58 PM

If we all delete our characters that will be like a wipe, wouldn't it?

Duchess 04-27-2010 06:58 PM

Maybe it's the fact that some people still have a lot of doubts about whether or not the wipe would fix anything. Yes, we all know what they said it would fix, and what it may not, but I have no clue myself if they will be fixed. Since most of us don't know the first thing about running a server, maybe it should be just up to the Devs to decide. I mean, if I were to host anything I would have the power to do whatever I wanted including making a choice that may seem to be unpopular. I would have the right to do that, but I would also have to deal with the consequences. If I don't care that nobody plays on my server, then I can be as unfair as I want. I really don't think that's what is happening here, but we can't stop anyone from doing what they want with their server. What we can do is express our concerns and hope that they listen.

marauder144 04-27-2010 06:58 PM

Fail poll is fail.

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 06:58 PM

Guys: Is this a CU anniversary joke? I'm beginning to think it might actually be.

kookaburra 04-27-2010 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftkilla (Post 591637)
so I deleted all my characters for nothing?

And I dropped all my l33t lewt into the Lifestone.

Z Ray 04-27-2010 07:00 PM

Best post so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591643)
Potential Staff courses of action:
  • Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly divisive and harmful to the community. It shouldn't be allowed to exist. Let's cut it short to end the fighting, and respect the will of the majority."
  • Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly controversial. This is an issue our community is passionate about. Let's allow it to run its course, and then go with the majority's decision."
  • Sensible! ✔ "Let's not create a poll whose outcomes we can't reasonably respect."
  • Ridiculous! ✘ "Let's cut the poll short prematurely, arbitrarily siding with the minority, tampering with the poll's results and succumbing to a tearful minority!"


Rebelexterminator 04-27-2010 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 591647)
Well, it is odd that we're not getting much input from the staff at this point. I wouldn't bother getting angry about it but hopefully this was a learning experience that will help them deal with issues better. Even the person with the most honest and positive intentions can end up with the worst results and piss people off. That's why I never discuss my political or other personal views with people. I'd rather know them for who they are then by what they do or what they believe in.

Duchess, if thats you in the avatar, cut your hair and strangle yourself with it.

Phlier 04-27-2010 07:01 PM

As much as I would have liked to see a wipe, we gotta remember one thing: we aren't paying for this game. We aren't paying for TC. The devs (whether we think this latest move right or wrong) are letting us play on TC because *they* chose to do so.

We make a big enough stink, and they could just chose to *not* let us do so.

Like it or not, we are guests in their home, and should act like it. Let's not let this whole thing blow up to the point that they just close TC to public use.

log.iC 04-27-2010 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591643)
Potential Staff courses of action:
  • Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly divisive and harmful to the community. It shouldn't be allowed to exist. Let's cut it short to end the fighting, and respect the will of the majority."
  • Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly controversial. This is an issue our community is passionate about. Let's allow it to run its course, and then go with the majority's decision."
  • Sensible! ✔ "Let's not create a poll whose outcomes we can't reasonably respect."
  • Ridiculous! ✘ "Let's cut the poll short prematurely, arbitrarily siding with the minority, tampering with the poll's results and succumbing to a tearful minority!"

Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0StE4qllJho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOKLwN2czk


Duchess 04-27-2010 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebelexterminator (Post 591672)
Duchess, if thats you in the avatar, cut your hair and strangle yourself with it.

Is there a reason for this attack? That's okay though. I still like you. :O)
I may be bi, but I don't need to look like a dyke rofl.

Soulreaver 04-27-2010 07:03 PM

i have to reply i tryed so hard not to say any thing but...

for thous of you gloating about no wipe its fine,and all for thos of you that are talking trash about no wipe need to pull your selves together. sometimes i think this sorta of thing gets the best of you all and you loose your dam minds.

we are still family and friends here if you want to act 2 years old this game is not rated for you please stop the negative talk is not worth any thing, and benefits none.

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 591662)
[/list]
Perhaps because they was doubt that the "most people favoured" figures were any more accurate? If the veracity of the vote is in question, I'd rather they continue with the status quo than go with what may be padded vote numbers.[/list]

It is reasonable to assume that vote padding occurred on both sides. EVEN IF that 15% of the "yes" vote was padded and 0% of the "no" vote was padded, there was STILL a majority of people in favor of wiping the server! More likely is that the padding occurred equally on both sides, and "yes" votes still DOUBLED "no" votes.

Quote:

And yes voters would have incentive to dupe votes to make sure the wipe went through.
Which side, do you think, would have a greater portion of its votes derived from duping? The side from which in-game dupers would prosper personally, or the side where they wouldn't? Both "yes" and "no" surely had an equal share of non-dupers who padded the vote. But the "no" side won the votes of people who have an in-game history of duping.

Quote:

And you have evidence of this?
Yes. Look at the before and after poll-closing screenshots from page 14.

Abstract:

For those "no" voters who argue that the poll is inaccurate: do you think the margin of error is 15% towards the yes side? Even though in-game dupers would clearly vote "no"?

Duchess 04-27-2010 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulreaver (Post 591677)
i have to reply i tryed so hard not to say any thing but...

for thous of you gloating about no wipe its fine,and all for thos of you that are talking trash about no wipe need to pull your selves together. sometimes i think this sorta of thing gets the best of you all and you loose your dam minds.

we are still family and friends here if you want to act 2 years old this game is not rated for you please stop the negative talk is not worth any thing, and benefits none.

<3 I think tolerance is key here. The Devs may have started it, but if we keep this up we'll end up being the ones to bring SWGemu down. :( I really don't want to see that. I trust that we can all be mature and get back to socializing. :)

t-nutz 04-27-2010 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safak (Post 591224)
i KNEW the 66.6 was going to come into play.
want to see something interesting?

20 seconds before close


database error, 20 sec later back up pool closed


just enough votes, all thrown in 3rd option to get it under 66.6 (Which is a statistical imposiblitly btw)

The first SS, shows 1994 people voted, this was before the closing of the poll. The second SS shows that 2013 people voted right before it was closed. If you notice the first option goes from 162 in the first SS, and down to 161 in the second SS. How does one drop a count from the poll?

I am not understanding that.

P.S.- Sorry, I had to remove the http links as I don't have 5 posts and cannot post them......

Kraschman 04-27-2010 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulreaver (Post 591677)
i have to reply i tryed so hard not to say any thing but...

for thous of you gloating about no wipe its fine,and all for thos of you that are talking trash about no wipe need to pull your selves together. sometimes i think this sorta of thing gets the best of you all and you loose your dam minds.

we are still family and friends here if you want to act 2 years old this game is not rated for you please stop the negative talk is not worth any thing, and benefits none.

As much as I agree with you, the community is made of ex-SOE players. This kind of thing has been happening on their boards since launch, through the CU, through the NGE, and still occurs.

Why would here be any different?

Arnold47525 04-27-2010 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Mouser (Post 591521)
Here we see the mysterious and reclusive beast known only as "The Economy" in action. Have you never played a game with one before?

Yes, I have. Do you?

Soulreaver 04-27-2010 07:09 PM

its different becasue this is NOT SOE !

I guess i don't get it am i wrong that the devs are allowing us to play on this server for FREE ? and to allow us to hang out test when we feel like it or play when we feel like it while they work there ass off for NO MONEY AT ALLL ??? You all need to wake up they dont have to do this for us at all...

Aonevm 04-27-2010 07:11 PM

this place has gone crazy it seems, ohh well when bombs drop gotta expect collateral damage ...

Arien 04-27-2010 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulreaver (Post 591691)
its different becasue this is NOT SOE !

We should vote on that.....

Machiavelli 04-27-2010 07:11 PM

although i voted for a wipe, I still give SWGemu guys props, its got to be a tough decision. Keep up the good work guys.

Pachrom 04-27-2010 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arien (Post 591162)
Whining minority wins again.

Oh the flashbacks...

Agreed, this decision is bullsh. BULLSH I TELL YOU!

Re'Tak 04-27-2010 07:12 PM

I could have sworn I saw Kyle post something along the lines of "We will not feed the QQers because that's what killed the game the first time around"

I guess he and the Devs changed their minds - what a shame.

+1 for the whiners!

kailos 04-27-2010 07:13 PM

These devteam should take a lesson from CCP (EVE Online).

Nuture your community.
Listen to your community.
Respect your community.

That is what let an indie devloper like CCP, actually compete in the commercial MMO market and make a great sandbox game like EVE Online.

I'm seriously looking forward to playing SWGemu more (on TC and Live) but without the right attitude from the devteam, it's not going to get there.

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 07:13 PM

If the SWGEmu staff really wants to distinguish itself from SOE, it will reverse this decision, recognize its mistake, and restore the faith of its constituents.

badboy09 04-27-2010 07:14 PM

1st off all i have not read all of the post's ill get back to you on that, but WTF R U GUYS PLAYING @ , I how nasty is that stunt you guys just pulled off.

another time when 600 voices are louder than 2000.

Spun 04-27-2010 07:14 PM

Odwill made a mistake by asking for a vote in the first place, he realizes that now. But the main reason his effort failed was due to being undermined by Kyle. That is just sad. I hope you guys can get your team straightened out and move forward.

Arnold47525 04-27-2010 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookaburra (Post 591565)
Someone paid you exactly what you were asking for your swoops and that is somehow griefing?

I think I missed something.

I put them up that cheap for players who don't could afford some for the insane amounts charged already, not for the personal gain of just a plain ***.
(If someone knows how much it cost to sample the resources needed to craft one will understand).

That's what you missed maybe.

Joshino 04-27-2010 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeoneImportant (Post 591663)
If we all delete our characters that will be like a wipe, wouldn't it?

Gogo , delete iarzop and folmar.


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