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-   -   TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=54674)

Spun 04-27-2010 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold47525 (Post 591707)
I put them up that cheap for players who don't could afford some for the insane amounts charged already, not for the personal gain of just a plain ***.
(If someone knows how much it cost to sample the resources needed to craft one will understand).

That's what you missed maybe.

If you put something up for sale on the bazaar you don't get to chose who buys it.

Soulreaver 04-27-2010 06:18 PM

I guess i made a mistake too. i thought this community was different. i am learning i was way wrong.

mork 04-27-2010 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawnbroker (Post 591131)
If it walks like SOE, and it talks like SOE, its SOE.......thanks for reminding us all that you're really SOE

just go QQ if your going to be like that, no matter what they do they are better than SOE and have done nothing wrong, they were trying to help the community by giving us a voice. something wich many couldn't handle.

SomeoneImportant 04-27-2010 06:22 PM

<kyle> Your votes don't matter
<kyle> Only votes from the electoral college matters

Mahonra 04-27-2010 06:23 PM

Ehhh. It's not the end of the world. I didn't care either way on the wipe. I just wanted BLUE TOADS if there was one.

shilo 04-27-2010 06:23 PM

I really think we just got a glimpse of the future of SWGemu. Unless something is done RIGHT now, than this emulator is doomed. If a decision to wipe can cause the dev team to flip flop back and forth like this, what is going to happen when real decisions have to be made?

If this team lacks the back bone not to be swayed by a vocal minority, than how is it going to survive this thing out to the end?

Is that not what killed SWG?

CrackPipe2011 04-27-2010 06:23 PM

If you were never going to wipe it why make 2 ****ing polls?

Tyrinius 04-27-2010 06:24 PM

so we had three polls, all for the wipe, and now this.?!?
wtb duping guide
sorry, i'm enraged
delete this post, i better calm down a bit

Otaris 04-27-2010 06:24 PM

Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

Joshino 04-27-2010 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaris (Post 591724)
Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

lol?

badboy09 04-27-2010 06:26 PM

**** it, its all i can think off.

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaris (Post 591724)
Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

Nope! A plurality of people voted in favor of blue frogs, so clearly the most logical thing would be to entirely ignore that choice. :rolleyes:

tonsters525 04-27-2010 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budias (Post 591344)
I wonder if the devs remember why they are doing this project? Did they forget that 90%of the people playing got screwed with by SOE the same way the just screwed with us? I understand it's free but don't put we fix what someone broke and then follow in their footsteps.

I just see it as all these people are donating their own money to keep the server up and they should have it the way the majority wanted it to be.

Mahonra 04-27-2010 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaris (Post 591724)
Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

LOL!! that would be great!!

Ok, well, no wipe is gonna happen. So how about we start a petition to implement GUILD WAR features!?!? OMG THAT WOULD ROCK!!!

CrackPipe2011 04-27-2010 06:30 PM

I feel like were dealing with SOE here.

"Well fix this for you guys!!"
*some time later*
"Never mind we were just ****ing with you!"

Kraschman 04-27-2010 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591678)
It is reasonable to assume that vote padding occurred on both sides. EVEN IF that 15% of the "yes" vote was padded and 0% of the "no" vote was padded, there was STILL a majority of people in favor of wiping the server! More likely is that the padding occurred equally on both sides, and "yes" votes still DOUBLED "no" votes.

Since you have no evidence of the breakup of possible dupe votes, this is merely speculation on your part. The vote could have gone in any direction.
Quote:



Which side, do you think, would have a greater portion of its votes derived from duping? The side from which in-game dupers would prosper personally, or the side where they wouldn't? Both "yes" and "no" surely had an equal share of non-dupers who padded the vote. But the "no" side won the votes of people who have an in-game history of duping.
Your talking about probabilities. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what actually occured. It's highly improbable to get struck by lightning, yet people do despite the odds.
Quote:



Yes. Look at the before and after poll-closing screenshots from page 14.
And said screenshots prove what exactly? There are votes removed from both yes and no sides as I see them, apparently obvious dupe votes removed as same. That in no way obviates the possibility that many others that were counted were duped as well.

Let's put it this way. Say we're voting for Mayor of Springfield, and Sideshow Bob is leading, and there's a strong chance of vote fraud. Do you put Bob in despite the chance he got in crookedly? Or throw the whole vote out and perhaps start from scratch when you can get a relatively clean vote?

Fact is, the vote was borked, and they choose to continue on with the status quo for the moment rather than go with fudged numbers, regardless of the outcome. I see no problem here.

elpenguino1 04-27-2010 06:30 PM

I wasn't fully for the wipe, but I do agree with what most are saying here. Over 66% of the community wanted a wipe, and as your initial statement said if that number or more desired it, then it would happen. In layman's terms, that is called a lie. The moment the developers start lying to their community and not caring what their ideas on the matter are is the moment the community loses respect for the developers. It is going to spiral farther into the hole that has been dug and player base is going to be lost on a large scale. If you don't want to turn into a SOE clone, reconsidering would be wise, but it looks like your minds are made up already.

Duchess 04-27-2010 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahonra (Post 591736)
LOL!! that would be great!!

Ok, well, no wipe is gonna happen. So how about we start a petition to implement GUILD WAR features!?!? OMG THAT WOULD ROCK!!!

OOOH! That would probably be my favorite feature.

kookaburra 04-27-2010 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilo (Post 591720)
I really think we just got a glimpse of the future of SWGemu. Unless something is done RIGHT now, than this emulator is doomed. If a decision to wipe can cause the dev team to flip flop back and forth like this, what is going to happen when real decisions have to be made?

If this team lacks the back bone not to be swayed by a vocal minority, than how is it going to survive this thing out to the end?

Is that not what killed SWG?

My thoughts exactly.
The way this entire thing was mishandled from start to finish, has completely demolished my already waning confidence in the SWGEmu team.

Adler1984 04-27-2010 06:34 PM

I will say that it makes me chuckle a little seeing this page, and seeing the number of people who originally were saying things like "Wipe it, the devs obviously want to" and etc... are complaining now and the number of people talking about quitting now that they have said no wipe are saddening. Last time I looked the vote poll wasn't "Yes, and give me blue frogs or I QUIT!".

I'm not a forum mod, none of us are but the mods. If they put up the vote with the intention of it being a fair vote and creating a good discussion, then saw that it was in any way becoming one that was questionable (BOTH the YES and NO sides made accusations of tampering, proxy clicking, etc..), and saw the level of division it was creating in the community, I can't blame them for taking it down.

What they did was in NO way the same as what SOE did or does. SOE didn't run a serious poll that was aimed at letting the players dictate what would happen. SOE didn't consult with players before implementing changes, or tossing out the CU or NGE. All they did was say "this is what's gonna happen, kkthnxbye".

Players should be grateful the developers even considered putting up a poll to let players decide, and should also realize that a forum based poll is a great way to express thoughts and opinions, but not something that should be used to determine the course of the game.

The devs tried it, and it turned into a complete mess. I for one am grateful they tried, but believe the COMMUNITY could've AS A WHOLE handled it a lot better than they did. A lot of people made assumptions of a wipe, and others that there'd be no wipe, and as a result many players did things IN GAME that were geared toward a wipe. This phenomenon is exactly why the developers did the RIGHT thing is saying "ok this is a cluster-bleep, let's end it".

I will remind all of those who screamed "It's a TC, it should be wiped" and "If the Devs want to wipe, then wipe!" that yes, it IS a TC, it IS the Devs call, and if they look at what's happening when they experiment with letting the COMMUNITY become more involved in the decision making process and that spirals out of control... yeah I can't blame them for calling it.

I take this as a learning experience for everyone...including the developers...and now they know that it's a completely BAD idea to try to let "the Community" try to decide the course of the server. So, to that end, I say let's get back to playing, maybe the devs can patch in some of the dupe fixes, and let's move one like they hadn't brought the poll in the first place.

After all, HAD they NEVER put the polls up, we'd ALL be doing the exact same thing today as we were before the polls were up...Grinding away, making creds, talking, chatting, beating each other up in duels, all the while waiting for the OR.

JonnyMe 04-27-2010 06:36 PM

Fine the majority of the community is being ignore and our votes are meaning less.

But lets get it down to what we want, the big reason the wipe was proposed was for the destroy economy we have right now. Ok no wipe fine, lets fix the economy, ban the dupers and take the money and duped items out of the economy, I guess that will be easier then just wiping the server right?

kookaburra 04-27-2010 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adler1984 (Post 591751)
After all, HAD they NEVER put the polls up, we'd ALL be doing the exact same thing today as we were before the polls were up...Grinding away, making creds, talking, chatting, beating each other up in duels, all the while waiting for the OR.

Exactly.

They really shot themselves in the foot with their feigned interest in what the community wanted.

sara23229 04-27-2010 06:37 PM

Lol qqqq
 
I voted for the wipe but I am glad you didn't do it. I can't belive people are complaining about a free game!

Vou23 04-27-2010 06:38 PM

Jolly good!

fixit6 04-27-2010 06:39 PM

See you all in 10 months when OR might come. lol. ;)

edit. I was thinking of playing again, but then I realized to get a crummy VK would cost well over 20 mill for something that would last a week at most and would need to buy credits from ebay: then I laughed. Enjoy this joke of a hacked out economy, folks.

Arien 04-27-2010 06:40 PM

oooh irony.

Top of this thread in the ads by google it reads....

Economic Crisis, Who's to blame? Vote now!!

lol

Adler1984 04-27-2010 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 591740)
Since you have no evidence of the breakup of possible dupe votes, this is merely speculation on your part. The vote could have gone in any direction.Your talking about probabilities. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what actually occured. It's highly improbable to get struck by lightning, yet people do despite the odds.And said screenshots prove what exactly? There are votes removed from both yes and no sides as I see them, apparently obvious dupe votes removed as same. That in no way obviates the possibility that many others that were counted were duped as well.

Let's put it this way. Say we're voting for Mayor of Springfield, and Sideshow Bob is leading, and there's a strong chance of vote fraud. Do you put Bob in despite the chance he got in crookedly? Or throw the whole vote out and perhaps start from scratch when you can get a relatively clean vote?

Fact is, the vote was borked, and they choose to continue on with the status quo for the moment rather than go with fudged numbers, regardless of the outcome. I see no problem here.

/agree

Mahonra 04-27-2010 06:41 PM

MISS NOVA posted in here!! We have a celebrity in out midst!

Anyway, lets all just move on. Go to this thread and /sign the petition!

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54719

badboy09 04-27-2010 06:41 PM

dont worry guys.

THERE IS ANOTHER

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54723

Otaris 04-27-2010 06:42 PM

Please lisen to the community. Its the players who really are involved with the entire development as a whole. There is a SERIOUS problem if players are duping items and credits. It can destroy a otherwise exciting game. We came here because of the wrong SOE showed its swg player base. We were very frustrated in almost every forum trying to get our voices heard. Right now you guys obviously put your foot in your mouth suggesting this and your right by saying a suprising result came out. Players WANT a wipe and a clean slate. Duping has ruined the ecomony, the issue needs to be fixed top priority and the server cleaned because of what happen.

safak 04-27-2010 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 591740)
Since you have no evidence of the breakup of possible dupe votes, this is merely speculation on your part. The vote could have gone in any direction.Your talking about probabilities. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what actually occured. It's highly improbable to get struck by lightning, yet people do despite the odds.And said screenshots prove what exactly? There are votes removed from both yes and no sides as I see them, apparently obvious dupe votes removed as same. That in no way obviates the possibility that many others that were counted were duped as well.

well 2 points to make here.

1. the only way it has been verified, the 'ghost votes', is on the NO side. so people will tend to think they were the culprits the entire time, since they were already found guilty of it.

2. yes, a vote or 2 was removed from both sides. noone is quite sure why/how that happened. but that isn't the point of the screenshots, the point was that right as the poll was closed, many votes in a row went to the same 15% answer... barely pushing it under that 2/3rd mark.
which is, without someone with access to it screwing with it, impossible.
there is less than a 1 in 100 billion chance of 20 votes in a row legitimately going toward a 15% answer in a poll of this sample size.

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 06:47 PM

Kraschman sez: Let's throw out the vote over the 1 in 100 billion percent chance that the majority wasn't in favor of this wipe.

Kraschman, do you really believe the margin of error was FIFTEEN PERCENT? And limited EXCLUSIVELY to the yes side? This is an absurd contention and doesn't even warrant refutation.

Kraschman 04-27-2010 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safak (Post 591767)
well 2 points to make here.

1. the only way it has been verified, the 'ghost votes', is on the NO side. so people will tend to think they were the culprits the entire time, since they were already found guilty of it.

2. yes, a vote or 2 was removed from both sides. noone is quite sure why/how that happened. but that isn't the point of the screenshots, the point was that right as the poll was closed, many votes in a row went to the same 15% answer... barely pushing it under that 2/3rd mark.
which is, without someone with access to it screwing with it, impossible.
there is less than a 1 in 100 billion percent chance of 20 votes in a row legitimately going toward a 15% answer in a poll of this sample size.

And again, no evidence that the preceding votes were all legit. Therefore ALL the votes are suspect. So scrap the vote and go with the status quo until you can get a clean vote. Which they've done.

kookaburra 04-27-2010 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safak (Post 591767)
there is less than a 1 in 100 billion chance of 20 votes in a row legitimately going toward a 15% answer in a poll of this sample size.

I was thinking to myself "why pull numbers out of your butt like that?".

Then I opened the calculator.....

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 591774)
And again, no evidence that the preceding votes were all legit. Therefore ALL the votes are suspect. So scrap the vote and go with the status quo until you can get a clean vote. Which they've done.

What possible set of circumstances could lead to 16% of yes votes being fraudulent, and 0% of no votes being fraudulent? Again, this is the only way it could be that the poll wouldn't show that a majority of people were not in favor of the wipe.

kookaburra 04-27-2010 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 591784)
What possible set of circumstances could lead to 16% of yes votes being fraudulent, and 0% of no votes being fraudulent? Again, this is the only way it could be that the poll wouldn't show that a majority of people were in favor of the wipe.


I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

The problem is that votes were actually TAKEN AWAY from one category and added to another.
The only person(s) with the ability to make a negative vote would be a board moderator.

reidski182 04-27-2010 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chelle Psyops (Post 591546)
Hoooly Sheep ****... don't we all feel like ****balls AGAIN. Where I'm from we used to call this "Lack of Communication" .. I would only suggest you guys get yer **** together.

B.O.H.I.C.A - Bend Over Here It Comes Again

you sir, are sheer genius. </thumbs>

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 06:55 PM

That's true, but we were talking about account duping. He argues that the poll is illegitimate due to the possibility that 16% of "yes" votes and 0% of "no" votes came from duped accounts. How realistic. :rolleyes:

JennieRoe 04-27-2010 06:57 PM

Damn, I spent all day thinking about what professions to get from the Blue Frogs. :/

Ekowraith 04-27-2010 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookaburra (Post 591786)
I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

Bingo. Illegitimate votes were made on both sides, but they certainly did not constitute 15% of the majority vote.

The poll was legitimate, but the staff opted to please a whining, 1/3rd minority. Their aloof response to the community's outrage only strengthens worries that the staff just doesn't give a damn about its constituents.


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