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-   -   TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=54674)

Newsound 04-27-2010 11:46 PM

Pull the plug on the forums and TC for two weeks. Let everyone cool off. This is getting ridiculous. I for one am taking a break.

Arnold47525 04-27-2010 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592302)
Good luck finding some others.

You know, maybe you guys should not try to alienate the guys coding the game you want who are trying to make sure we don't do something as drastic as wiping the server based on information we can't verify is completely accurate.

It seems you understood him wrong. His post obviously was a direct answer to the post of criticalmass trying to stop him jumping at the devs. He just forgot to qoute it.

Re'Tak 04-27-2010 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592302)
Good luck finding some others.

You know, maybe you guys should not try to alienate the guys coding the game you want who are trying to make sure we don't do something as drastic as wiping the server based on information we can't verify is completely accurate.


Whereas I see the point you're trying to make, the overall flavor of this message is full of more holes than a screen door.

Kesorx 04-27-2010 11:48 PM

I for one am wicked disappointed with this entire thing. They get everyone excited about the wipe, and then, when the majority of the players vote to go through with the wipe (most likely because it would have fixed the most prominent problems, right?) they cancel it.
They should have gone through with it. Even with the few babies. Did they not see the Blue Frogs for two weeks? If everyone was responsible enough they could choose the skill boxes they had before the wipe and get on with the game.
Please, take all the messages from the players here into consideration, and see what the majority is really asking for.

- Kesorx SeKanis

alexiskool12345 04-27-2010 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worlack (Post 592321)
This is how I see it:

Devs were brainstorming on how to fix some of the server issues. Wipe was tossed around as an idea, but since it isn't a pressing concern on a "dead code" server it was decided that the community would be allowed to decide. "We are impartial to a wipe" "We will not pander to the QQers."

Poll was launched. Community was passionate one way or the other. People called into question the integrity of the poll due to "lack of information" and "possible fraud".

Poll was revised and relaunched. "66% majority needed" well beyond a standard majority. Community was more informed, but still certain questions were raised such as harvesters and banks. Integrity of poll called into question again, this time due to lack of key points "harvesters and banks" and even more prevalent "voter fraud".

In my view, at this point, the staff saw that they had made a mistake, they didn't take every variable into account, like the possible fraud and the few items they (in my opinion, accidentally) omitted. I believe these were honest mistakes (just as cRush stated) they had already reset the poll once so to do so again would be ridiculous.

There are allegations of votes being removed and the only way to do this in vBulletin requires a moderator to my knowledge. Looking at the evidence of the screenshots, that seems to be a possibility, its also possible that it was simply a database error, I have no idea, I'm not versed enough to comment.

Where I feel the whole affair went south is when, after two separate polls had the majority in favor of a wipe the staff decided to just say nevermind. I understand some of the reasons, but all this ended up doing was causing a storm of controversy. I know there would be controversy either way, but the staff continues to put their collective feet in their mouths instead of sticking to their own rules. Some of the other staff went so far as to simply post "Cry" in another thread and locked it.

I again want to reiterate that this staff has profound skill in creating a pre-CU/NGE experience for us, but in my view, they are desperate for a competent and respectful community staff leader/staff members. I pray that when/if Suncrusher and eventually 1.0 is released that many of these staff members don't have a say in how the server is run internally.

Well said ;)

Shadow2k 04-27-2010 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsound (Post 592324)
Pull the plug on the forums and TC for two weeks. Let everyone cool off. This is getting ridiculous. I for one am taking a break.

Yup, kill it for a couple weeks. Let people reflect on what no Pre-CU at all is like. See if they can maybe have a little bit more respect for everything once it gets taken a way for a bit.

Zaff 04-27-2010 11:51 PM

I don't want a wipe. But I did vote to wipe with the frogs so the devs could test some things. It is a test server. It is not fun to start over. But it is for testing. I love playing and having fun. But I can give up what I have done in the interest of having the test server be a TEST server.

I don't care what or how much has been duped. It is all going to be wiped. It doesn't matter what I create, harvest, sell, buy, grind, or loot. It is all going to be wiped. I do care about implementing and testing changes that will further the development process so we don't have to deal with duping and some other exploits AFTER the game goes live.

Ultimately it may not matter if we have a wipe or not at this point. But people could at least have had the respect to accept that if two thirds of this community voted to go ahead with a wipe now, it was going to be the decision of the community to put testing before our personal interest in gaming. And if you were going to quit over this, you will be quitting anyways when the DB wipes return after implementing the OR. DB wipes suck. But they are necessary for advancement of the game until the day it goes live. And I probably won't play as often myself when the wipes start happening regularly again. But there are other people who will. And I'm glad they do. I want my game back.

Daywolf 04-27-2010 11:51 PM

Poll? Oh I missed the poll... get stuck in a few threads with what forum time I have so don't always keep ontop of this/all forums. Anyhoot, I vote no :)

It's testing... not everyone spends vast amounts of time playing a half-working game, so who cares if some peeps have tons of stuff? Hey, how about a rollback to 2007, we'll play freez-tag around anchorhead :D

inyri 04-27-2010 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold47525 (Post 592325)
It seems you understood him wrong. His post obviously was a direct answer to the post of criticalmass trying to stop him jumping at the devs. He just forgot to qoute it.

You can attach it to any other of a numerous number of disrespectful posts in this thread, in that case.

Frustration is expected. I voted for the wipe myself. Disrespect is uncalled for (on either side).

hav.rak 04-27-2010 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592302)
Good luck finding some others.

...

You know, maybe you should try not acting so pompous? You are not as special as you appear to think.

relentless890 04-27-2010 11:56 PM

The poll itself was extremely biased. There were 3 options for Yes and only two for No. In addition, the wording left much to be desired. Fair would have been

No - won't play till OR
No - but I'll still play
INDIFFERENT - I don't care either way
Yes - without frogs
Yes - with frogs

This is only in addition to the numerous citings of developers trying to turn the tides of the poll. Amazingly, with 3 No answers and only 2 Yes answers (60 to 40), people STILL chose pretty overwhelmingly Yes. And let us not forget that the poll was 75% 12 hrs after being posted.

cru jodo 04-27-2010 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hav.rak (Post 592339)
You know, maybe you should try not acting so pompous? You are not as special as you appear to think.

And like i have said, the staff isn't enemy. OK, maybe they pulled a bonehead move, but they are not the cause.

We need to set our sights on the problem and go after the dupers. We have a common enemy, and deep down they are the ones to blame.

inyri 04-27-2010 11:56 PM

I'm just a GM who happens to know exactly what these comments are doing to the otherwise very dedicated devs.

roodypooh 04-27-2010 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592336)
You can attach it to any other of a numerous number of disrespectful posts in this thread, in that case.

Frustration is expected. I voted for the wipe myself. Disrespect is uncalled for (on either side).

i totally agree its one thing to say this blows or throw alittle fun into a bad situation its another to just flat out insult or demonise people just cause they screw up.

sure your team has a nack for bad judgement..... so do alot of the player base.....but what some people have said does make ya shake ur head in disgust.

Sabbathicus 04-28-2010 12:00 AM

It amazes me how people openly attack moderators here. I have spent a lot of time on the TESNexus forums. You folks don't realize just how easy going the mod.s and rules are here.

t-nutz 04-28-2010 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592302)
Good luck finding some others.

You know, maybe you guys should not try to alienate the guys coding the game you want who are trying to make sure we don't do something as drastic as wiping the server based on information we can't verify is completely accurate.

WTH man, I joined just the other day and this? That wasn't an insult to any of you. If you had watched the movies, when Qui-gon does the droid mindtrick thing, they quit looking for the droids... As in, they need to quit looking for you...!?!?

Was I misinterpreted?

inyri 04-28-2010 12:01 AM

Yes, you were misinterpreted.

And pretty sure that was Obi-wan. ;)

Re'Tak 04-28-2010 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592344)
I'm just a GM who happens to know exactly what these comments are doing to the otherwise very dedicated devs.


It comes with the territory. Perhaps the Devs in question need to take a break for awhile and not mess with anything until they've either recharged their batteries OR decided that the payoff isn't worth the headache.

Daywolf 04-28-2010 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592344)
I'm just a GM who happens to know exactly what these comments are doing to the otherwise very dedicated devs.

Well, I have no part in the debate, not even going to look around for who is saying what. All I have to say really is that the devs are doing a good job with this all. Development is a big task, tons of things happen that makes one head spin, it's work. So if they want to wipe or not wipe for whatever reason, it's really up to them. There really wasn't that big a difference in the poll anyway, it's not like 80% of forum lurkers are wanting a wipe. So, imo, it's their call :)

cru jodo 04-28-2010 12:05 AM

In fact throughout this entire process, the devs were not involved until cRush attempted to put out some flames after the fact and was unjustly attacked.

t-nutz 04-28-2010 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592302)
Good luck finding some others.

You know, maybe you guys should not try to alienate the guys coding the game you want who are trying to make sure we don't do something as drastic as wiping the server based on information we can't verify is completely accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592353)
Yes, you were misinterpreted.

And pretty sure that was Obi-wan. ;)

Ahm, got me on that one!

chiwar7178 04-28-2010 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592302)
Good luck finding some others.

You know, maybe you guys should not try to alienate the guys coding the game you want who are trying to make sure we don't do something as drastic as wiping the server based on information we can't verify is completely accurate.

The whole problem is that the community has been ignored and jerked around. The devs can't be alienated from or by any group that they don't pay any attention to in the first place.

On the flip-side of the coin: yes, a lot of people have been real a-holes--but this is on ALL sides of this entire dramafest. Devs, staff, AND players... Especially players; mainly due to the massive amount of posts/chat coming from the players, with very little coming from the others.

The major problem: the percentage of negativity when it comes to players vs. the percentage of negativity from everyone else. A much higher percentage of negativity IS coming from the devs/staff.

These last few days have shown that things haven't changed in the last few years. I leave that statement as-is. There are still problems all the way around.

Yes, devs spend a hell of a lot of time coding this project. The staff spends a hell of a lot of time administrating the site, server, irc, etc. What both of you groups fail to recognize, at least publicly: the players spend a hell of a lot MORE time playing through the code and finding any bugs. Yes, playing a game and doing coding or site administration are different ballparks, but their still time taken away from our families, friends, and pets. Time IS money.

I do appreciate what the devs are doing here, despite the supposed in-fighting and backbiting they have to deal with. No, they don't HAVE to do this. Ditto for the staff. This entire community needs to stop with all the disrespectful comments and out-and-out barbarism when dealing with one another.

Players: if you don't like what's going on here, you don't have to stay here, read the forums, donate, play the TC, or anything. If you really wish to show your disapproval, don't donate, don't post, and don't play here. The staff/devs don't have to take and BS from you. You don't have to be respectful, but you won't be disrespectful, at least not for very long. @ban does work here.

Staff/Devs: keep doing your thing, but be respectful. Just being in a position of power and/or authority does not grant you the right of respect. Respect is something earned, period. Just as stated above, just because you don't have the right of respect doesn't mean that you should be treated disrespectfully, either. At the absolute worst, y'all should be treated in a courteously-neutral manner. As you know @ban does work here. Exercise it if rules are not followed, hackers/exploiters are caught, or you're disrespected.

Daywolf 04-28-2010 12:14 AM

geez the drama, it's bringing the database server to it's knees.
Think I'll go play with my modelling app ;)

Jordak Lestenya 04-28-2010 12:17 AM

I agree with Daywolf. They work harder than anyone else, and they reap no benefits from it. Personally I think everyone should stop fighting....but that wont happen...so at least dont bag on the devs...

Legendary 04-28-2010 12:19 AM

I for one am happy there won't be a wipe so soon! Thanks! :D

Luffyoo 04-28-2010 12:21 AM

After some time to calm down and refocus on what is important, the fact we can all play SWG as it was meant to be enjoyed, I would like to say kudos to the devs for any communication at all.
I think when things like this happens it reminds us of what we have all been through and not just with SOE. Most of the time the community is not thought of and when something scares us we react poorly.
I feel lucky to have found this game again and am thoroughly enjoying it. If I wasnt I wouldnt be here.
Maybe in future you should have a poll about whether to have a poll or not... hrm.. seems silly doesnt it.
Keep at it guys. We're here because of your dedication. Sometimes we forget that.

Traxian 04-28-2010 12:21 AM

Well, the one thing that this has made abundantly clear to me is that the majority of the community surrounding this game is simply not one that I can continue to test and enjoy the game with. It's too divided and hostile. Certainly I took a side in the wipe debate, but I tried to state my thoughts clearly, and was open to consider the arguments of others. Most of the hundreds of pages of posts I read were just bitter hostility, though I appreciate those which rose above that.

Long story short, this will be ignored or I'll get a "QQ more, noob" or something, which is fine. How I feel about the community isn't the reason I made this post...

I simply ask that this account and its associated information be deleted as I have uninstalled the emulator and SWG and don't intend to return at any point in the near future. I like to tie up loose ends like that, and it would be much appreciated.

And lastly, I would like to thank the developers of this project. I installed it out of curiosity to see how the project was coming along, and to see if there was anything I could do to help, and spent a couple weeks playing with it. What you've accomplished is genuinely impressive, and allowed me to relive those memories of 2004 and the only MMORPG I ever played quite convincingly, lantern birds and all. Damn elusive Lantern Birds of memory. Never could remember what they looked like.

I wish you success with completing this project, as I'm sure that in a finished state with a broader community it would be a very enjoyable experience indeed.

Jordak Lestenya 04-28-2010 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traxian (Post 592370)
Well, the one thing that this has made abundantly clear to me is that the majority of the community surrounding this game is simply not one that I can continue to test and enjoy the game with. It's too divided and hostile. Certainly I took a side in the wipe debate, but I tried to state my thoughts clearly, and was open to consider the arguments of others. Most of the hundreds of pages of posts I read were just bitter hostility, though I appreciate those which rose above that.

Long story short, this will be ignored or I'll get a "QQ more, noob" or something, which is fine. How I feel about the community isn't the reason I made this post...

I simply ask that this account and its associated information be deleted as I have uninstalled the emulator and SWG and don't intend to return at any point in the near future. I like to tie up loose ends like that, and it would be much appreciated.

And lastly, I would like to thank the developers of this project. I installed it out of curiosity to see how the project was coming along, and to see if there was anything I could do to help, and spent a couple weeks playing with it. What you've accomplished is genuinely impressive, and allowed me to relive those memories of 2004 and the only MMORPG I ever played quite convincingly, lantern birds and all. Damn elusive Lantern Birds of memory. Never could remember what they looked like.

I wish you success with completing this project, as I'm sure that in a finished state with a broader community it would be a very enjoyable experience indeed.

If only everyone could be like this....

Nakasi 04-28-2010 12:27 AM

I think this event makes SWGEmu the closest we will ever come to emulating SWG Pre-cu. Even without a complete game, so much drama/butthurt has been generated. This brings back good memories.

Luffyoo 04-28-2010 12:28 AM

Quit in the face od diversity?? Id rather have less like that.

Jordak Lestenya 04-28-2010 12:30 AM

I think we should just forgive and forget. its done its over and theres nothing that can be done. just acccept it and move on.

stil 04-28-2010 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inyri (Post 592302)
Good luck finding some others.

You know, maybe you guys should not try to alienate the guys coding the game you want who are trying to make sure we don't do something as drastic as wiping the server based on information we can't verify is completely accurate.

what he said.

Luffyoo 04-28-2010 12:32 AM

Couldnt agree more. No good will come of it.
Put the servers back up now, we'll be good.. Pinky Promise.

Daywolf 04-28-2010 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traxian (Post 592370)

I simply ask that this account and its associated information be deleted as I have uninstalled the...

I'm not sure why they would do that. Do you really think they would? That would be odd.. But yes, can get hostile around here at times, it's normal in forums where they don't go around banning the community so much (apart from having multi-accouts here). But it's not always hostile. But I'm sure your comment was to add a pinch of drama. Bye bye :)
Ok back to that modeling app.. :D

Think I'll model a drama queen crown ;)
(not really)

Kesorx 04-28-2010 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordak Lestenya (Post 592381)
I think we should just forgive and forget. its done its over and theres nothing that can be done. just acccept it and move on.

Usually I would agree. But more than half voted for the wipe. They devs also stated that they would not fall to QQers.
They must have tripped. I feel ashamed saying this.. But they know it was wrong. And yeah, I understand how some people may have had great progress in the game.. But still. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Jordak Lestenya 04-28-2010 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kesorx (Post 592390)
Usually I would agree. But more than half voted for the wipe. They devs also stated that they would not fall to QQers.
They must have tripped. I feel ashamed saying this.. But they know it was wrong. And yeah, I understand how some people may have had great progress in the game.. But still. Sorry if I offended anyone.

I see your reasoning....hmmm... idk....im sure they have their reasons...they wouldnt just do it to be mean....

Luffyoo 04-28-2010 12:36 AM

However, we dont know why they didnt go ahead.
They mentioned that people had bought up some issues with the wipe that they deemed worthy enough to listen to.
Until we know what they were, we prolly shouldnt overly stress about it.

CrackPipe2011 04-28-2010 12:37 AM

I was really looking forward to the wipe but ehhh whatever

t-nutz 04-28-2010 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luffyoo (Post 592404)
However, we dont know why they didnt go ahead.
They mentioned that people had bought up some issues with the wipe that they deemed worthy enough to listen to.
Until we know what they were, we prolly shouldnt overly stress about it.

^^^^^^^

inyri 04-28-2010 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordak Lestenya (Post 592401)
I see your reasoning....hmmm... idk....im sure they have their reasons...they wouldnt just do it to be mean....

You may want to read the whole thread (just pick out dev posts) and I think you'll find that the reasons were explained. And we weren't just trying to be mean.


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