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Ramsey 03-30-2007 12:19 AM

Discussion
 
We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

Thadec 03-30-2007 12:30 AM

Nice, well I think half the problem is that whenever a new guy comes in and asks a question he gets the living poo flamed out of him. Do you really think that half the new people will read the sticked posts/threads/w.e...? ffs, i've seen some mods flame new people... that isn't very beneficial to the community either... just my two cents:mad:

Samiwan 03-30-2007 12:33 AM

Am very new here. Only found out about this by chance while trolling around google. Have had a smile on my face ever since. Have been reading a fair share of the threads here, both good and bad, and there are some great ideas out there.

One thing I would love to see here as and when applicable, is for the folks who will be running the servers, set up their own threads and/or independent pages/sites, for their specific server. Then we can get a feel for what direction each of them wants to take in principal, then apply ourselves to whichever one or many that we will consider playing on. Instead of what seems so far to be a very jumbled set of ideas and conflict of those ideas

If this or something near on identical is already running please do excuse my ignorance

Hardlinemonk 03-30-2007 12:42 AM

3rd post wewt! I dont have many posts because i for one am active on truegalaxies with around 150 posts or so. That could possibly be on reason why its not as active as you would like O.o

EVILJUDE 03-30-2007 12:43 AM

agreed, to have a successfull community, we all need to learn to, as both ramsey and thadec put it, stop flaming people and help each other out. now, i dont' mean this in the context of spell out each thing when someone asks "how do I setup the EMU" but atleast point them in the right direction. I myself, have spoken to quite a few people on Lowca about the EMU, to see who knows about it, who is coming over to this side of the fence, and I see alot who are worried about the legality of it (even tho I try to explain it), others who are happy with the NGE, and those that who have already are here. some question the ability of it being able to be done (again, I tell them of how much progress has already been made). any one of my other friends who used to play I am no longer in touch with cause they left and I have no other means to get in contact with them. now, as far as the server goes, I have no idea what scriptable NPC's are or what can be done with them, but i have seen good suggestions coming from others like walls and roads for player cities, wanting to be sure battle fields work, wanting to see the possibility of getting jedi of holo or village (or combination of both), not sure if this apartments suggestion is valid but would be very nice to see it be implemented, being able to place items on the balconies of houses that have them (again, these are all suggestions from others, none are my own). I also would like to see the all the mods that never worked or never worked right, be fixed, loot tables to be adjustable, maybe some type of muti level access to the server (like full admin, partial admin, and low admin) so that the server admins can have help, but not have to give full access to everything on the server (like low admin can reset the server, but can't touch anything to do with loot tables). bout all I cna think of now. will post more if this is along the lines you were thinking of.

jaywalker17 03-30-2007 12:44 AM

I read the forums everyday. I don't, however, usually make any posts, because 90% of what I read on the forums are people getting trashed for asking a question.

That being said, I've told the half dozen people that used to be in my guild about the emulator, and all of them are excited to play. All we are going to look for is a stable server with a healthy population. Our biggest complaint about the old days was the lack of usable rewards we got from doing faction quests, and that we always wanted to be able to create our own missions in the mission terminals, be it collection of resources missions, or offering a bounty on someone.

thanks for listening

tarrant 03-30-2007 12:45 AM

One thing that I thought would be fun and informative would be a guided chat like what they used to have at Stratics at the beginning of swg. where moderated questions by smusatto or one of the other admins would be posed to the devs. as long as it is controlled, it could be great. anything you don't want to answer can be ignored, etc.

just a thought

EVILJUDE 03-30-2007 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samiwan (Post 43952)
Am very new here. Only found out about this by chance while trolling around google. Have had a smile on my face ever since. Have been reading a fair share of the threads here, both good and bad, and there are some great ideas out there.

One thing I would love to see here as and when applicable, is for the folks who will be running the servers, set up their own threads and/or independent pages/sites, for their specific server. Then we can get a feel for what direction each of them wants to take in principal, then apply ourselves to whichever one or many that we will consider playing on. Instead of what seems so far to be a very jumbled set of ideas and conflict of those ideas

If this or something near on identical is already running please do excuse my ignorance

no need to apologize for ignorance on that subject. there was a servers list, but it was taken down since core3 is only on the swgemu TC and any other site/server is running the unstable modded core 1. a list of some of the servers/sites out there are at http://www.swgemuservers.com/.

Thadec 03-30-2007 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardlinemonk (Post 43955)
umm says 15k members on my screen sooo ya


he is talking about active members

sid_lowca 03-30-2007 12:48 AM

we're on Irc, and we discuss topics here, but some of us are just waiting to see some results first.

dorrick 03-30-2007 12:49 AM

its not that a new guy comes and just ask any question that makes sense and would need answering. Its the people that are to lazy to just search around the forums abit an overall use there brains. I'm proud to say i have never needed to post a question on here because most or all questions are answered as simple as possible.

And i am very computer illiterate

EVILJUDE 03-30-2007 12:50 AM

also, it might be a good boost for some of the admins/mods/devs (not saying all of them, not saying any particular one, but I have seen instances of it) would follow thier own rules. this could be part of some of the issues seen here.

Sinis 03-30-2007 12:51 AM

downloading irc as we speak, last time i had this **** was back in s10, cs.

shastadude15 03-30-2007 01:05 AM

I myself have been very actively following the SWGEmu since June of 06...I told all my friends about it that I could, and all my friends who were still playing NGE (I cancelled my NGE account in August)...the snags I hit, are the people still playing NGE are playing the NGE because they either like it better than pre-CU for some reason (I found that these are mostly kids under age 15, Im not joking), think the emu is illegal and dont want to go to jail, or think the emu is a longshot and will never work because they trust Smedley's broken promises over their peers'.

I know for a fact you guys are dilligent workers, and I think everyone who is here right now can agree with me, but I think some of the best things that we could do to get a larger community, would be some of this:

1) For new people threads where people ask questions or introduce themselves, NO FLAMING WHATSOEVER. You either let a moderator or dev answer their question professionally, or you can save the mods and devs plenty of time by answering the question directly in a polite way and welcoming the individual to the community, or directing them politely to a link such as the FAQ and also welcoming them. Ive noticed a LOT of hostile, HOSTILE, replies to "Hey guys, Im new" posts, and I will admit I have made some of those in the past, but its time for that to change, because all it does is tell people you arnt welcome here. Maybe bring back the good old squelch for violators?

2) Do at least a weekly update on the main page, even if it is just for an itty bitty tidbit of progress or no progress at all, just to let the people who dont have time to get on IRC or check the forums, or perhaps are less proficient in navigating IRC or forums, know what is going on without making them read between the lines for updates or go digging.

3) I would say open the test server up more often but it is up quite a lot anyways so I dont really think that is necessary.

4) Find legal ways of getting the word out such as advertising in any means necessary...even if that means putting up fliers in the window of your local Wal Mart. Considering there were over 300,000 SWG players in Pre-CU, someone is bound to see it. This may seem impractical, so why not find legal ways to advertise in gaming magazines or on gaming sites (if at all possible) using donated money? Im sure there are plenty of ways to get the word out that we arnt doing, because I tell probably 1 or 2 Pre-CU players a month about the emu and theyd never even heard of it.

These are just suggestions, and they all may be completely impossible...but hey, its worth a try.

Bloodfin182 03-30-2007 01:07 AM

Yeah not meaning any offense to anyone, but I think this "problem" (if thats even really what it is) is a direct result of the such strict attitude that was always kind of surrounding the forums. Its definitely much much better now, but on the old forums anyway, you could hardly say/ask anything without fear of flaming or a ban. I think that makes everything intimidating, especially for new members, and almost discourages questions/ideas/etc.

That said, I dont like it more then anybody else when a noob comes in and asks the most stupid questions, when they obivously havent read anything at all.

fenderbean 03-30-2007 01:08 AM

I fear this kind of open feed back will, get out of control. The best way to figure out what people want is to have a forum for ideas and pick the best and do polls. Dont forget u cannot please everyone, thats SOEs problem they listened to all the babies who wanted to be all powerfull. I will never understand why a 2 or 3 hour player per week thought they should be able to beat a 7day a week power player. I like forums I can view them at work I cant get on IRC much. Just add a forum topic and read/discuss till everyones had there say:D

IG-EightyEight 03-30-2007 01:09 AM

ive beena member for over a year, but i just recently started posting on this new forum (i think its been up a few months now). But I don't really go on IRC all that much. Is it a big help to be on IRC as well? I am not one who begs for results because I can't imagine the work that goes into this I figure you guys are doing all you can. But If every extra person on IRC helps, i'll be glad to hop on it.

fenderbean 03-30-2007 01:15 AM

yeah I wish i could do more myself, but im no programmer. Only thing I can do is say what a perfect game would be. I can do that on the forum all day:D

Jaidden 03-30-2007 01:18 AM

I think it's a couple of things:

This is a big one. Lack if updates as to what exactly is being worked on, and how far we are in the process of these things being worked on. A simple post every few days, or once a week on what is going on, problems that are associated with these issues, and what's being done to fix it... Things like this would be a big confidence builder for the community. Not everyone has all day to spend in IRC waiting to get a sliver of information on what's going on.

New members that come here are not greeted with friendliness, but rather ridicule. This goes hand in hand with IRC. If someone asks a question in the wrong channel it's a flaming field day.

I think a lot has to do with the various server sites that have popped up as well. Players seem to spend a good amount of time on the forums and IRC of the server that they will be playing on.

JDM4000 03-30-2007 01:20 AM

I will admit that the treads here are not as many as we would like but look at it this way.

We moved 3 or 4 times and each time we started from scratch with treads. If you look at all the threads and discussions that existed from prior instances of out forum we are really talked out. We know where each of us stands and the various ideas. In some cases we had the same argument several times. In addition, SWG is not without an end. There only exists soo much that can be said.

Hows your day bob?
Good jim, hows your day?
Good bob, hows your day?


Granted we have new threads now and then but we need to come up with ideas that were not said hundreds of times before.

Jaidden 03-30-2007 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodfin182 (Post 43975)
Yeah not meaning any offense to anyone, but I think this "problem" (if thats even really what it is) is a direct result of the such strict attitude that was always kind of surrounding the forums. Its definitely much much better now, but on the old forums anyway, you could hardly say/ask anything without fear of flaming or a ban. I think that makes everything intimidating, especially for new members, and almost discourages questions/ideas/etc.

That said, I dont like it more then anybody else when a noob comes in and asks the most stupid questions, when they obivously havent read anything at all.

/agree

No one likes questions that have been answered a million times over, but taking the time to answer the question goes a long way toward building friendliness in the community. Basic rule of thumb is that if you don't have anything nice to say and are not willing to help, keep your opinion to yourself.

Ramsey 03-30-2007 01:27 AM

NOTE:

I have put my time into this and I hope you guys read my responses to your questions. I am trying to spur discussion about how we can improve. Please read!



Quote:

I read the forums everyday. I don't, however, usually make any posts, because 90% of what I read on the forums are people getting trashed for asking a question.
What do you think the SWGEmu staff can do to better deal with new people or a flow of like 100 questions a day?

Quote:

One thing I would love to see here as and when applicable, is for the folks who will be running the servers, set up their own threads and/or independent pages/sites, for their specific server. Then we can get a feel for what direction each of them wants to take in principal, then apply ourselves to whichever one or many that we will consider playing on. Instead of what seems so far to be a very jumbled set of ideas and conflict of those ideas
Well the reason we have disabled a forum for this purpose is to hold people back from creating more communties for servers that do not exist yet. Its way to early for a server admin to start a community with no software. A couple weeks before core3 1.0 we'll do something like this and help server admins get started.

Quote:

One thing that I thought would be fun and informative would be a guided chat like what they used to have at Stratics at the beginning of swg. where moderated questions by smusatto or one of the other admins would be posed to the devs. as long as it is controlled, it could be great. anything you don't want to answer can be ignored, etc.
So mabye having bi-monthly Q/A Sessions? sounds like a good idea.

Quote:

its not that a new guy comes and just ask any question that makes sense and would need answering. Its the people that are to lazy to just search around the forums abit an overall use there brains. I'm proud to say i have never needed to post a question on here because most or all questions are answered as simple as possible.
I know. That is the reality the staff lives with everyday. Dealing with people that dont search around before posting. However there is nothing we can do, and I guess the best course of action would be to just help people out. No point in fighting human stupidity.

Quote:



2) Do at least a weekly update on the main page, even if it is just for an itty bitty tidbit of progress or no progress at all, just to let the people who dont have time to get on IRC or check the forums, or perhaps are less proficient in navigating IRC or forums, know what is going on without making them read between the lines for updates or go digging.
This ties into the bi-monthly Q/A sessions. I think its doable, we just have to remember to do it ;).

Quote:



4) Find legal ways of getting the word out such as advertising in any means necessary...even if that means putting up fliers in the window of your local Wal Mart. Considering there were over 300,000 SWG players in Pre-CU, someone is bound to see it. This may seem impractical, so why not find legal ways to advertise in gaming magazines or on gaming sites (if at all possible) using donated money? Im sure there are plenty of ways to get the word out that we arnt doing, because I tell probably 1 or 2 Pre-CU players a month about the emu and theyd never even heard of it.
Do you, or anyone else reading this thread, have any experience with advertising small projects like this? I'd love to hear about way's we can premote this project outside of existing members telling their friends.

Quote:

Is it a big help to be on IRC as well? I am not one who begs for results because I can't imagine the work that goes into this I figure you guys are doing all you can. But If every extra person on IRC helps, i'll be glad to hop on it.
Indirectly, yes. Getting on IRC premotes community by simply forging bonds between community members. Its a live forum. If a group of people are talking in #swgemu, they learn more about each other. Then the next time a particular person replys to a thread on the forum, another person will go "Hey I talked to him/her on IRC the other day, I know how he/she is!".

Quote:


No one likes questions that have been answered a million times over, but taking the time to answer the question goes a long way toward building friendliness in the community. Basic rule of thumb is that if you don't have anything nice to say and are not willing to help, keep your opinion to yourself.
Agreed. Thats why Ive taken my time and Im trying to make this work.

Anakis 03-30-2007 01:28 AM

There is no point in advertising for the Emu until it's actually released. Why draw lots of people to this site? Most will just get bored and leave because there is no game yet. The community will have no trouble growing once pre-cu returns.

IRC sucks imo for getting information. Unless you can sit there all day staring at the chat, you're not going to find anything when you come home and look at the 100,000 lines of random text that was received while you where at work/school.

Anyway, I'd like to see WEEKLY (minimum) progress updates from the Devs. On the FORUMS/main page, not IRC. Just type a paragraph about what the team is working on, what's been finished recently, what's almost done, what's next, etc.

You're hypocrites for criticizing the community's communication. Regular updates on what you're doing would keep up community interest. I personally don't participate on these forums much, because the Devs only occasionally tell us what they're working on, and all there is for threads are Jedi system ideas and other stuff that's been beaten to death.

Perhaps you could start threads based on what you're working on or will be working on soon and ask for community input on those systems.

Most of the community probably doesn't care much how you guys do it. We just want pre-cu back the way it was, with less bugs and lag. Extra features are only a bonus.

Jaidden 03-30-2007 01:29 AM

Thank you Ramsey, this is the kind of feedback that the community is searching for.

Ramsey 03-30-2007 01:35 AM

Thank you for your input Anakis.

So what I have gathered so far to improve is:
-bi monthly Q/A Sessions.
-Weekly updates.
-Advertisement of project.
-Lenient Moderation.
-Community participation in helping new members.
-Compilation of ways the community can help.

Keep the suggestions coming.

Samiwan 03-30-2007 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVILJUDE (Post 43961)
no need to apologize for ignorance on that subject. there was a servers list, but it was taken down since core3 is only on the swgemu TC and any other site/server is running the unstable modded core 1. a list of some of the servers/sites out there are at http://www.swgemuservers.com/.

Cool thank you for the link, have registered back with Chimeara.

Am unsure whether am standing with my original stance or not. The impression from what reading I have done, is that the aim is to get the game live, with content as it was 12.1, and that any other content, would be added and or taken away by the host of each server. Hence my thought of shouldn't all ideas be relevant to a specific server, not to Beta, if Beta, scripting, code etc (like I know what those words mean lol), is purely directed at getting ready for launch with 12.1 as was.

Again please excuse ignorance if I am of the mark here.

kekeoki 03-30-2007 01:38 AM

I don't say anything cuz when i do i get flamed.

Iovid 03-30-2007 01:38 AM

I have to agree with Anakis and I do understand why people who don't think before they speak get flamed or banned. I have tried not to meddle in the affairs of the developers so I wont slow them down but if there is anything that I can actually help with I am always more than willing and I wish there was more I could do.

JDM4000 03-30-2007 01:41 AM

**tosses 2 credits in**

Perhaps in place of shunting people to IRC to chat why not to the EMU?

Have a chat tap that works on all planets for group talk like IRC and have any items you guys say show up like the opening text so could know when you guys are active and provide information or whatever you need.

It also allows the flexibility to talk in the group setting and one on one like we are accustomed to in SWG. At the same time would track active participants and help to build community.

After all in IRC you can only type... in SWG you can type but you can also keep yourself entertained by moving around

Jaidden 03-30-2007 01:42 AM

What do you think the SWGEmu staff can do to better deal with new people or a flow of like 100 questions a day?

New player questions are going to come. There is no really good way to deal with new players posting questions, but a week long ban for people that flame a new player asking a question would be a great start.

So maybe having bi-monthly Q/A Sessions? sounds like a good idea.

I'm not even sure a Q/A session would even be necessary. It would be nice, but it takes up a lot of staff time. A post a week or bi-weekly explaining what is being worked on, what we can look forward to in updates, maybe what you may need help with would be more realistic. I know Teweedo is working his tail off on animations. If you want to enlist the help of someone, maybe toss them a PM.

I know. That is the reality the staff lives with everyday. Dealing with people that dont search around before posting. However there is nothing we can do, and I guess the best course of action would be to just help people out. No point in fighting human stupidity.

(See #1) New player questions are going to come. There is no really good way to deal with new players posting questions, but a week long ban for people that flame a new player asking a question would be a great start.

Indirectly, yes. Getting on IRC premotes community by simply forging bonds between community members. Its a live forum. If a group of people are talking in #swgemu, they learn more about each other. Then the next time a particular person replys to a thread on the forum, another person will go "Hey I talked to him/her on IRC the other day, I know how he/she is!".

I agree, but like someone mentioned before, the waving of the ban stick, and the general unfriendliness of some members causes hesitation in getting involved in a discussion.

There are several very mature members of this community that are willing to help if you just ask. It has to be very difficult with the few guys that you have working on this, and moderation of the boards being done by only a few people.

I also want to reiterate that I believe every member of this community appreciates all the hard work that you guys are doing on this project. You fellas have selflessly dedicated yourselves to a monstrous project out of love for a game and community.

Samiwan 03-30-2007 01:43 AM

Think I read this thread the wrong way. Sorry about that, and thanks for the valuable information I did gain.

I know a few of the guys at "Future Publishing", will mention this to them, see if there is any interest. Can't promise anything, but will put it out there

freethinker42 03-30-2007 01:45 AM

In terms of Future Server Ideas and related issues, the Future Server Ideas forum is too broad a topic. For example we have several threads on new Jedi ideas that get buried under other unrelated topics.

Simply put, I'm saying it might help to make multiple forums on profession specific topics, player housing, gameplay mechanics, crafting, etc. (like the old SOE forums) to help keep ideas together. Having a forum for every single profession may be spreading too thin, but as the community grows the more useful it will.

Ender 03-30-2007 01:48 AM

I'm the same way, I've been avidly following this project since I first heard ages ago, after I quit the NGE around a month after release. I keep track of updates and such on the site, and have been on IRC a total of one time. It just wasn't informative enough. I also wasn't a member for some time simply because I'm lazy like that ><. This is my second post in all this time, not that I think I'll sound stupid and get flamed, but because mostly anything I have to say has already been said. I would love the q&a sessions though, great idea.

myserenity 03-30-2007 01:50 AM

Ramsey,

Maybe there could be some in game events to promote testing. We have a semi-playable game at present time so instead of calling it a stress test, add in the most recent thing you have worked on and post a thread here with a date and time to have an in game party to test the new stuff. It will spark interest and give us all something to discuss. Sometimes a "stress test" is not enough to capture the attention of people.

Iovid 03-30-2007 01:52 AM

why don't you delegate a community relations person to just deal with the questions and suggestions to help keep people from annoying you Dev's and they can also serve the purpose of filtering out the bad ideas. This person would require a lot of patience and a good idea of what will help the game and what will not.

Ender 03-30-2007 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iovid (Post 44020)
why don't you delegate a community relations person to just deal with the questions and suggestions to help keep people from annoying you Dev's and they can also serve the purpose of filtering out the bad ideas. This person would require a lot of patience and a good idea of what will help the game and what will not.

that's a good idea, but I don't think simply one person should filter out the ideas, most ideas should at least have some chance. We're not playing this community relation's person's game, we're playing our game. Most if not all ideas should at least be thought out, but for questions and such that's a good idea.

Iovid 03-30-2007 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender (Post 44022)
that's a good idea, but I don't think simply one person should filter out the ideas, most ideas should at least have some chance. We're not playing this community relation's person's game, we're playing our game. Most if not all ideas should at least be thought out, but for questions and such that's a good idea.

Maybe I should have worded that differently. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of filtering repetitive questions and passing ideas on to the Developers in a more efficient manner.

Ender 03-30-2007 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iovid (Post 44025)
Maybe I should have worded that differently. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of filtering repetitive questions and passing ideas on to the Developers in a more efficient manner.

ahhh gotcha. yeah, definitely a good idea.

Jaidden 03-30-2007 02:06 AM

536 views and 37 responses. Lets go guys, Ramsey is trying to get some feedback, so give him some.

Ramsey 03-30-2007 02:14 AM

Quote:

why don't you delegate a community relations person to just deal with the questions and suggestions to help keep people from annoying you Dev's and they can also serve the purpose of filtering out the bad ideas. This person would require a lot of patience and a good idea of what will help the game and what will not.
Unfortunately that isn't going to work out, as great as it sounds. Problem is new people don't know the difference between a community relations person and a "Developer". It would also be hard to educate a community relations person when he/she isn't in the actual development process, which is why having a developer post updates and answer questions (mabye 1 hr a day) is a much more effective way.

Our moderators take part in other aspects of development, and I think they can do a good job in answering development questions during moderation.

Yes thank you for your input, please post more!


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