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-   -   TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=54674)

Lamune 04-28-2010 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookaburra (Post 593374)
You're not looking close enough. Unless you have an explanation about how people cast NEGATIVE votes.

*sigh*

I already explained this to you. The database did not properly record the last vote before the poll was closed and that brief site hiccup that soon followed. The -1's between screenshots can be attributed easily to nothing other than faults inherent in any database access over web interface.

While the sudden 20 votes is a bit more unusual, but hardly conspiratorial. "Hey, have you voted yet?" could have come up in a guild chat leading a bunch of people over at once.

But even assuming it is a government plot, your dice-roll comparison is still just stupid. Statistics like that require each option to have equal weight. These did not.

For example:
You have two choices- A.) A puppy. B.) A kick in the nuts.

These choices will not result in the same coin-flip probabilities you're trying to compare it to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593392)
Nobody's thanking me for mowing my mother's lawn on my own time.

Your mother should be. That ungrateful 8!@%#

Kraschman 04-28-2010 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593448)
This sure as hell ain't a democracy!

And what ever gave you the misguided impression it was?

The Devs are doing all the coding and running of the server/forums, we are just enjoying the benefits of their work.

Kainzo 04-28-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamune (Post 593455)
*sigh*

I already explained this to you. The database did not properly record the last vote before the poll was closed and that brief site hiccup that soon followed. The -1's between screenshots can be attributed easily to nothing other than faults inherent in any database access over web interface.

While the sudden 20 votes is a bit more unusual, but hardly conspiratorial. "Hey, have you voted yet?" could have come up in a guild chat leading a bunch of people over at once.

But even assuming it is a government plot, your dice-roll comparison is still just stupid. Statistics like that require each option to have equal weight. These did not.

For example:
You have two choices- A.) A puppy. B.) A kick in the nuts.

These choices will not result in the same coin-flip probabilities you're trying to compare it to.

Lamune, it's a breath of fresh air to actually read a post that isn't doused in 1) off topic / 3rd grade pictures 2) moronic flames or 3) a combination of the above two.

I applaud you sir. Thank you.

Kraschman 04-28-2010 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamune (Post 593455)
*sigh*

I already explained this to you. The database did not properly record the last vote before the poll was closed and that brief site hiccup that soon followed. The -1's between screenshots can be attributed easily to nothing other than faults inherent in any database access over web interface.

While the sudden 20 votes is a bit more unusual, but hardly conspiratorial. "Hey, have you voted yet?" could have come up in a guild chat leading a bunch of people over at once.

But even assuming it is a government plot, your dice-roll comparison is still just stupid. Statistics like that require each option to have equal weight. These did not.

For example:
You have two choices- A.) A puppy. B.) A kick in the nuts.

These choices will not result in the same coin-flip probabilities you're trying to compare it to.



Your mother should be. That ungrateful 8!@%#

I'll take the choice of the kick if I get to deliver it. :cool:

Harsk 04-28-2010 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593392)
Yes they do this on their own time, that's their choice. Nobody's thanking me for mowing my mother's lawn on my own time.

Thanks mang, I do the same and nobody thanks me ~.^

Mujahed 04-28-2010 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 593462)
And what ever gave you the misguided impression it was?

The Devs are doing all the coding and running of the server/forums, we are just enjoying the benefits of their work.

Don't know. They said something about our opinion mattering somewhat and then they came with this poll which would let the community decide something. But I guess it was a joke!

Kraschman 04-28-2010 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593475)
Don't know. They said something about our opinion mattering somewhat and then they came with this poll which would let the community decide something. But I guess it was a joke!

Just because they solicited an opinion doesn't mean they were required to adhere to it. The fact they requested input matters even if the results don't ultimately make a difference. Still doesn't make it a democracy.

Lamune 04-28-2010 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kainzo (Post 593465)
Lamune, it's a breath of fresh air to actually read a post that isn't doused in 1) off topic / 3rd grade pictures

I guess I'm lucky I was unable to find a Lolcat pic related to statistical fallacies in my 5-second GIS. Would I still have got half credit? ;)

Mujahed 04-28-2010 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 593482)
Just because they solicited an opinion doesn't mean they were required to adhere to it. The fact they requested input matters even if the results don't ultimately make a difference. Still doesn't make it a democracy.

It's misleading! Why don't they just close the forae again? Maybe just leave the poor fools a guide on how to play on the TC and donate? That's all they need basically.

They would never have gotten this far without the community and they know it. It's why they put up with this crowd. It's some community members themselves who clearly don't realise this.

safak 04-28-2010 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamune (Post 593455)

But even assuming it is a government plot, your dice-roll comparison is still just stupid. Statistics like that require each option to have equal weight. These did not.

For example:
You have two choices- A.) A puppy. B.) A kick in the nuts.


your argument would be weak, but semi-acceptable if it was a field of 20-30 to pull from. but there were 2000 or so votes, more than enough to prove that a >15% option is not going to jump to a 99.9% option. to think otherwise is simply not possible. a guild innactive enough to ignore the poll for hours and hours all voted the same exact within 30 seconds?come on now..

waa 04-28-2010 04:08 PM

the whole thing was farce

now all lets play nice and pamper the frail ego's of those who feel crucified from the bed they made

this isn't the 1st time, and surly will not be the last

Kraschman 04-28-2010 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593489)
It's misleading! Why don't they just close the forae again? Maybe just leave the poor fools a guide on how to play on the TC and donate? That's all they need basically.

They would never have gotten this far without the community and they know it. It's why they put up with this crowd. It's some community members themselves who clearly don't realise this.

Sure they would have.

Would it have taken much much longer? Yes. Would they have eventually reached the same point anyway? Of course.

It's still THEIR code and THEIR server. Surely you're not naive enough to believe that having the ability to voice an opinion makes us at all equal to them. It's not a democracy and never was. It's only misleading if you deluded yourself enough to actually believe it ever was. Be thankful we even get a voice...

Lamune 04-28-2010 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safak (Post 593496)
your argument would be weak, but semi-acceptable if it was a field of 20-30 to pull from. but there were 2000 or so votes, more than enough to prove that a >15% option is not going to jump to a 99.9% option.

Yeah, OK. Look, I could spell this out in more detail, but since facts aren't going to sway you, I'll try a different approach:

You're arguing about vote-fraud in a poll in which your supported camp WON.
The new negative votes, even illicit ones, did not change the results. Wipe wins.
Assuming you do prove tampering, you've just managed to invalidate results that confirmed your victory. Or in this case, had the entire poll dismissed. You've now cast doubt on the validity of your own team.

Congratulations.

Baigs 04-28-2010 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waa (Post 593506)
the whole thing was farce

now all lets play nice and pamper the frail ego's of those who feel crucified from the bed they made

this isn't the 1st time, and surly will not be the last

have you read through the thread? if Not.. then here is the LAST Dev comment..

What Crush wrote:

Quote:

Anyone else notice that those screenshots that are supposedly evidence of a moderator "fixing" the polls actually show more votes being removed from no columns than yes columns? I don't have moderator access to the forums, so can't really see what options are available there, but the difference between the two screenshots is very minimal lol. We are talking about 2-3 votes being removed. Hardly evidence to call things a conspiracy.

As for us ignoring the community - The complete opposite is going on here. Yeah the majority said they would like a wipe, but the majority said they wanted a wipe with blue frogs.

There was a lot more behind the decision - it's not that the whining minority won out. We started thinking about the real effects the blue frogs would have, and realized offering them as a condition of the poll was a mistake.
- Players would have exploited the frogs to become Jedi faster, and it would have taken away some interdependence since everyone could become self sufficient.
- Changing the frogs to guard against these exploits meant changing the terms of condition.
- A third poll was discussed and decided against.
- We felt that if we just left TC the way it was, then it would be the best thing for both parties.

Instead we get crucified and compared to SOE. Come on people.

OR at the current rate is approximately 5 months out. But as always, Developers lives and available time can fluctuate at any given moment, changing the amount of time we have to contribute. Obviously this can drastically affect any ETA. So, yeah, if things stayed the way they had been rolling, I would say 5 months is realistic. I doubt the motivation will be there with all the lynching, but we will see.

P.S. Enjoy the new loot tables.

Kendo1972 04-28-2010 04:19 PM

as my grandmother always says "quit your gurnin' ya gam****es..." although i believe a wipe would be nice to get the economy back and people can "try" to keep it low it probably wont happen... oh wait... it WONT happen...just like a wipe...


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