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-   -   TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results (http://archive.swgemu.com/forums//showthread.php?t=54674)

Lamune 04-28-2010 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safak (Post 593570)
in other words, 'i can't win this argument that i started, so ill post a pointless cartoon as a backhanded dig at her to divert the fact of getting owned'

Actually it was more of a "Oh geezuz, I'm arguing with helmet-wearing doorknob licker. I think I'm going to stop now."

There isn't much point into getting into a logical debate with someone insisting "... there is no other possible explanation."

I could have also gone with a picture of Morbo from Futurama yelling STATISTICS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! to your grossly inaccurate 1-in-6 example with the dice roll, but I try to limit myself to 1 image macro per internet argument.

Kraschman 04-28-2010 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593597)
No?! Why else did they ask the community for help way back and stated they were completely stuck without people helping?

Let's see, because they wanted it done faster and they used a little hyperbole and exaggeration when asking.

C'mon don't be obtuse. This concept isn't that hard to grasp. Do you really expect people to put serious effort into helping if you say "we'd like some help. We can do this alone, but it'll take a really really long time."

Sure SOME people will help, but not nearly as much or as many as if you create a crisis. Otherwise inertia will keep people from putting in real effort to help.

Kainzo 04-28-2010 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamune (Post 593602)
Actually it was more of a "Oh geezuz, I'm arguing with helmet-wearing doorknob licker. I think I'm going to stop now."

There isn't much point into getting into a logical debate with someone insisting "... there is no other possible explanation."

I could have also gone with a picture of Morbo from Futurama yelling STATISTICS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! to your grossly inaccurate 1-in-6 example with the dice roll, but I try to limit myself to 1 image macro per internet argument.

On a side note, I love Morbo.

Morbo is pleased but sticky.

Mujahed 04-28-2010 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 593614)
Let's see, because they wanted it done faster and they used a little hyperbole and exaggeration when asking.

C'mon don't be obtuse. This concept isn't that hard to grasp. Do you really expect people to put serious effort into helping if you say "we'd like some help. We can do this alone, but it'll take a really really long time."

Sure SOME people will help, but not nearly as much or as many as if you create a crisis. Otherwise inertia will keep people from putting in real effort to help.

Creating a crisis would make them look incompetent.

Stating that they'd have it done real soon if everyone helped would get people psyched enough to learn programming.

Baigs 04-28-2010 05:21 PM

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

Kraschman 04-28-2010 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593629)
Creating a crisis would make them look incompetent.

Stating that they'd have it done real soon if everyone helped would get people psyched enough to learn programming.

Just like all the players here now are learning programming? (Oh wait, that's not happening?) You're also assuming that everybody would have known the crisis is false, which is not that likely.

You're obviously not going to get this concept. Trying to explain further is just flogging Baigs' dead horse.

Crazyduck 04-28-2010 05:37 PM

I really don't understand why people are leaving because of the wipe... I voted yes but this TC will get wiped anyway.

Mujahed 04-28-2010 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 593659)
Just like all the players here now are learning programming? (Oh wait, that's not happening?) You're also assuming that everybody would have known the crisis is false, which is not that likely.

You're obviously not going to get this concept. Trying to explain further is just flogging Baigs' dead horse.

Most of the original team is long gone.
Do you understand that the current dev team has had intensive recruitment from the community? I need say no more.

jonna 04-28-2010 05:47 PM

i lol at all that lol at lollers. wtf! this is a private game bulid. take what you get folks! we all know that in the end it is gonna be good. i would like a wipe but ill take it as it is for now.

Ekowraith 04-28-2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush
There was a lot more behind the decision - it's not that the whining minority won out. We started thinking about the real effects the blue frogs would have, and realized offering them as a condition of the poll was a mistake.
- Players would have exploited the frogs to become Jedi faster, and it would have taken away some interdependence since everyone could become self sufficient.
- Changing the frogs to guard against these exploits meant changing the terms of condition.
- A third poll was discussed and decided against.
- We felt that if we just left TC the way it was, then it would be the best thing for both parties.

What you're doing is listing "no" points in defense of the decision to ignore the community. Your points have a place: in the dialog and debate that led up to the poll and it's outcome. Despite these hypothetical consequences, an overwhelming majority of voters still favored a wipe.

It would be like if, following the 2008 elections, the Bush administration announced,
"Hey guys. We appreciate all the debate and discussion surrounding this whole election, but ultimately, we decided that a Democrat administration wouldn't be able to properly run the country. After much internal discussion, we have decided to retain control of the executive branch.
-A liberal executive would be likely to drive up the national deficit with immense federal spending.
-A democrat executive would increase the tax burden.
-A democrat president would reduce incentives to work through socializing programs."

Dispute the analogy all you want, but the ultimate point is this: such points were already a part of the debate that led up to the poll/election's turnouts. If these criticisms of a server wipe are true, let the people who voted for it sit with the consequences. Simply restating the minority position and ignoring the majority is senseless.

Kraschman 04-28-2010 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mujahed (Post 593686)
Most of the original team is long gone.
Do you understand that the current dev team has had intensive recruitment from the community? I need say no more.

That still doesn't change the fact that most players are NOT programmers and are not involved in coding. Your point is still moot.

Kraschman 04-28-2010 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 593700)
What you're doing is listing "no" points in defense of the decision to ignore the community. Your points have a place: in the dialog and debate that led up to the poll and it's outcome. Despite these hypothetical consequences, an overwhelming majority of voters still favored a wipe.

It would be like if, following the 2008 elections, the Bush administration announced,
"Hey guys. We appreciate all the debate and discussion surrounding this whole election, but ultimately, we decided that a Democrat administration wouldn't be able to properly run the country. After much internal discussion, we have decided to retain control of the executive branch.
-A liberal executive would be likely to drive up the national deficit with immense federal spending.
-A democrat executive would increase the tax burden.
-A democrat president would reduce incentives to work through socializing programs."

Dispute the analogy all you want, but the ultimate point is this: such points were already a part of the debate that led up to the poll/election's turnouts. If these criticisms of a server wipe are true, let the people who voted for it sit with the consequences. Simply restating the minority position and ignoring the majority is senseless.

Except this isn't a democracy and never was. The devs ultimately are the final word decision-wise when it comes to TC. Want to make the decisions yourself, you need your own server. Your analogy = epic fail.

Ekowraith 04-28-2010 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraschman (Post 593710)
Except this isn't a democracy and never was. The devs ultimately are the final word decision-wise when it comes to TC. Want to make the decisions yourself, you need your own server. Your analogy = epic fail.

Exactly. Your arguing that this has been undemocratic is quite possibly the best evidence that this process has been unfair.

But suppose a developer banned you because he disagreed with you politically. Would you then choose not to complain, due to the free nature of the SWGEmu? After all, you're entitled to nothing. But at the end of the day, we understand that unfair treatment is unfair treatment.

EDIT: Mistakenly wrote that Kraschman voted against the wipe.

cable-odinson 04-28-2010 06:07 PM

why on earth do a serious poll and act like SOE with the results.
come-on .................................................. ....

Baigs 04-28-2010 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekowraith (Post 593732)
Exactly. Your arguing that this has been undemocratic is quite possibly the best evidence that this process has been unfair.

You realize this is how you are acting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpSfThUv_pc


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