TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09 - Page 10

Mahonra · #**136** 10-19-2009, 10:45 AM

I applaud the creation of an anti-exploit team. I also have faith the dev team will do all they can to preserve the integrity of the server.

However, I do want to point out something I haven't seen mentioned yet

Max said in his post that Ashor WAS caught using speed hacks previously. Max also said Ashor didn't exploit to unlock his Jedi. But don't you think it would be safe to assume Ashor used his speed hack to gather all the POI's and search for rumor NPC's, etc? Clearly the use of a speed hack would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the ease of unlocking Jedi, right? I only mention this as a player who legitimately ran to EVERY single POI in game and spend hours and hours searching for my rumor NPC's WITHOUT using a speedhack of any kind.

How else was he able to unlock so much earlier than ANY other Jedi, and grind to full template so quickly enabling him to kill other Jedi's Mellachie quest in an effort to prevent more from unlocking?

I know a lot of players have done the same as I have, and so it kinda flys in the face to hear it stated that his use of exploits didn't help him unlock at all.

DraGa · #**137** 10-19-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkor

this complete decision seems like an excuse to unban her friends to me... il hope i understand it wrong..

You sir have gained +10 internets for this. You are 100% correct.

CapnSwifty · #**138** 10-19-2009, 10:55 AM

I know a lot of people are upset about the rubber-banding but some of the posts in this thread sound like an all out witch hunt.

Without the issue coming to light it would not be getting fixed and gone unchecked would have severely impacted the live server when ready.

In a test center there is a very fine line between exploiting and testing.
If an exploit is found, documented and reported then the person that found it is a great tester and not an exploiter.

What I read in the OP is that it wasn't really a client side speed hack in the end. It was a bug with forcerun3. Knowing that the reset timers on a lot of stuff aren't working properly atm this makes a lot of sense to me.

I am glad to hear that thorough communication allowed all the angles to be revealed.

On another note ...

I can see reasons that the found exploits not be public but can also see reasons that they should.

As an example:
I found a crafting experimentation exploit that would allow for more than amazing results on every experimentation. (Am I a cheater for finding it?)
When I reported it I made the bug report Private thinking best not to advertise. It was promptly made public and assigned. It was also fixed on the next server restart

Then there was the backpack / stackable container dup exploit.
I ran into this way back when. Added a note to a newly created bug report.
A few days later I found some more information on it but the bug report was moved to a private one, so i was unable to add another note.
During the next few weeks I kept seeing new bug reports being added and made private for the exact same issue.

My question on this matter is ... Was keeping this kind of issue private worth all the extra work it took to keep it that way? IMO removing backpacks and keeping the exploit public would have been a lot less work.

It benefits us all to have every ounce of data at our disposal if usage of that knowledge is pure and honorable but severely raises the potential of misuse by selfish / greedy people and potentially weak willed people that can't contain themselves.

I don't envy the job of drawing the line between viable testing and gross misuse.

I commend the entire staff for their diligent work.

Kayliaah · #**139** 10-19-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbab

This.

And this.

Lol, obviously.

GTFO my world.

------------------------------------------------------------

Must be the best and worst thread ever.

I highly doubt that whoever used hacks will be of any help in finding exploits, well, I can only think of two honestly, the rest will make it a complete ****ing mess, if the people I think of (from STORM) are in this new team too.

The speedhack was just a third party program, how does that make them useful to find exploits? I wonder, they didn't hack anything themselves.

The saddest thing must be that while we have those hackers as a team now,

we lost two Devs, yeah, awesome...

Everything has already been covered many times, I just hope you people know what you are doing even if I doubt it, seeing even the oldest and biggest Devs confuse themselves trying to find a way to deal with everything and everyone at the same time, changing their mind everyday, it looks like the community by its daily complains is controling the project now and in a bad way.

Everyone deserves a second chance it's true, let's see about a third, fourth, fifth...

"To err is human, to persist in error is diabolical."

Timbab · #**140** 10-19-2009, 11:09 AM

Correction, they're called script kiddies. Calling them hackers is an insult to the hacking community, tbh, lol.

But as Kay said, 3rd party programs are usually the tools used in 'Speedhacking' and things like that.

jat5560 · #**141** 10-19-2009, 11:11 AM

If you can't beat them, just let them join you...

****ING PATHETIC

Your team is a bunch of freaking idiots...is this against the rules for me to say? Good, now hire me.

Broon_2009 · #**142** 10-19-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbab

Correction, they're called script kiddies. Calling them hackers is an insult to the hacking community, tbh, lol.

But as Kay said, 3rd party programs are usually the tools used in 'Speedhacking' and things like that.

This

They are NOT ethical hackers by any stretch of the imagination.

GestorterEngel · #**143** 10-19-2009, 11:15 AM

It's terribly said we've lost two DEVs over this and other matters... Where is this team heading?

Kayliaah · #**144** 10-19-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GestorterEngel

It's terribly said we've lost two DEVs over this and other matters... Where is this team heading?

It's not funny I know.
No idea how to answer.

We cannot always agree with whatever the devs and/or STAFF decide to do.

AT LEAST, we can still show our freaking opinion, it's always been one of the plus over SOE.
Let's not destroy it too.

jat5560 · #**145** 10-19-2009, 11:23 AM

From this day forward NOTHING a dev says can be trusted or taken seriously.... good luck, you freakin retards!

Kayliaah · #**146** 10-19-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jat5560

From this day forward NOTHING a dev says can be trusted or taken seriously.... good luck, you freakin retards!

Sorry, your opinion doesn't count.

Shueisha · #**147** 10-19-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle

If people leave, that is their loss. Recruiting people that can hack our systems is logical and necessary. And yes, this is an open invitation to anyone who wants to try and exploit / hack / crack / dupe / etc. If you can do any of these things, we have a place for you on the Exploitation Team. If you don't report it to the team, we will ban you forever, and delete your characters. Simple, easy, and for the good of the final product. This is a TC, and we need to find the exploits, can any of you complaining make a list of exploits? If the answer is yes, come join the team, if the answer is no, then realize that it's just a TC, and we want the final product to be as exploit proof as possible, and for that we need to hire the best exploiters. Ponder the logic before complaining further.

/Agree 100%, plus an invitation to hack seems fun, if I find any I will report without delay!

jat5560 · #**148** 10-19-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayliaah

Sorry, your opinion doesn't count.

That's the whole community's opinion.

sXeKJB · #**149** 10-19-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oru

I can't speak on behalf of the whole team but when this idea came to my table, i said go with zero-tolerance without any hesitation. Then some of the developers raised their voices, how are we going to find these exploits if we restrict and punish these hackers. On the other hand we must eliminate the system being used for their advantage and provide a good testing environment for all the other players.

So we have adjusted the policy. Was it a rushed decision? Probably. Is there a chance we adjust it even further. Of course! I'am trying to be as open-minded as possible and you should rather come to me directly instead of going to public with complaints like this. The problems raised by many of you here is noted and being considered. It has a valid point, that we should use someone else for the job then the given individuals.

Why shouldn't people of the community, whether apart of the development or not, not be able to speak their opinion on a public forum?

I'm for having a hack/exploitation/vulnerability test team of some sort, but like others have said, they did not use their abilities ethically in the first place, therefore I agree with others that if they want to do exploit testing with these players who have not been trustworthy, it should be on a separate private server to keep it private. I think it would have been more wise to create a team from scratch who can prove they are qualified and trustworthy to test and report exploits; also, and asking for people to hack/exploit to get the ability to be apart of this team may not be a wise decision, does this include sending DoS attacks?

Ekowraith · #**150** 10-19-2009, 11:28 AM

Out of curiosity, do you know what zero means?