Rubber Banding / Speed Hacking - A Special (Unplanned) DevChat - 10/14/09 2am EST

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

Retarded examples aside,

When the person you're debating with resorts to shrugging aside a point with "retarded examples aside," you know it's a good time to stop.

Originally Posted by Hellflinger

1st off, I would like to say that by itself, my opinion means nothing. (and I'm pretty sure I will be quoted on this)
2ndly, If their are, as previously claimed, +2000 people visiting the sight a day, and *some* ratio of those that approve rubberBanding measures, to those that do not, let their be a vote. Really, everyone votes once per account\per email\per IP. That could decide the actual opnion of the people. (not that that neccessarily counts for much, but it is more substancial that my opinion)
3rdly as Colt556 quoted earlier, "Can it be tweaked, fixed, and upgraded BEFORE putting it on the server and forgetting about it? Since that's the major thing. If the devs are so adament about keeping it, fine. Remove it, fix it, put it back up. If it still doesn't work, remove it. There is simply NO excuse for putting up a faulty code and leaving it for two weeks while the entire testing process suffers dramatically because of it. There is just no excuse at all for that. "
Ok, I have a GREAT SOLUTION THAT SOLVES ALL YOUR PROBLEMS!
since it can't be tweeked, and now doesn't work, remove movement. yes. "There is simply NO excuse for putting up a faulty code and leaving it for two weeks while the entire testing process suffers dramatically because of it. There is just no excuse at all for that." yes. But what if the community and Dev's want to keep it? "If the devs are so adament about keeping it, fine. Remove it, fix it, put it back up."
no problems!

[Colt-556]

Actually, from posts in this thread, there's been several polls made about this topic. And as far as I know almost all of them, if not all of them, voted to remove it, atleast until it was in half-working condition.

P.S. If you wanna believe that, Lab, but us making up stupid examples is just retarded and I wont use that as the sole source of an arguement. If you wanna keep making examples, go ahead.

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

P.S. If you wanna believe that, Lab, but us making up stupid examples is just retarded and I wont use that as the sole source of an arguement. If you wanna keep making examples, go ahead.

Have fun in college!

Or did you decide to not go there because it harmed your fun level?

[Yyss'a]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

Depends, is the fixed version on the TC? Is everyone still suffering from a broken anti-hack? If so, then no, we can't stop. As I have said, if it's being worked on, GREAT, but until it's ready remove this broken one. There's no excuse to keep it up and make the ENTIRE community suffering, the very process of testing itself suffering from this. It aint like you have to worry about people speed-hacking in the time before the revised version is finished. Cuz even if they do, two words (or is it three?) DATABASE WIPE. So the hackers getting a couple days/weeks of freedom really doesn't matter, since in the end everything we do will be wiped. However in that time everyone else will be able to move normally. I have yet to see any sort of justification to keep the broken code on the server until the revised code is finished.

I must have missed the part where the entire community elected you to speak in its name, Colt-556?

As an officer of my guild, I can assure with certainty that all of its 25+ members manage to have a fun testing time alright, even with the rubberbanding. And what of the fact that the server reaches its full capacity every single day of the week? That says a lot about the players' resolve at using the TC as it is.

Next time you go make demands in the name of the whole community, please make sure you get elected or it will be my pleasure and honor to put back that Egotist Usurper hat on your head.

On the other hand, if you find a way to get yourself elected as this community's voice in that matter, I'll see that as democracy.

This is not about removing or keeping the anti-hack code. It is about respecting everyone. We all can speak for ourselves and you have no right to take that from us.

[Colt-556]

Originally Posted by Yyss'a

I must have missed the part where the entire community elected you to speak in its name, Colt-556?

Your whole argumentation based on the fact that we should be helped out of our suffering is therefore a fallacy and a gruesome attempt at manipulating reality.

As an officer of my guild, I can assure with certainty that all of its 25+ members manage to have a fun testing time alright, even with the rubberbanding. And what of the fact that the server reaches its full capacity every single day of the week? That says a lot about the players' resolve at using the TC as it is.

Next time you go make demands in the name of the whole community, please make sure you start with asking us what we think or it will be my pleasure and honor to put back that Egotist Usurper hat on your head.

On the other hand, if you find a way to get yourself elected as this community's voice in that matter, I'll see that as democracy.

You think that just because people still play that somehow underminds my arguement? Even I still get on and manage to amuse myself. That doesn't mean I'd like to see the rubberbanding stay. You're mistaking tolerance with acceptance. And I speak of what I see, and I'm ALWAYS seeing countless people ***** and moan about the rubberbanding, saying how they wish it wasn't around. Obviously I don't speak for the hundreds of people that play, but when I'm constantly bombardment with complaints, and never any praise, I have to estimate the general feeling towards this feature.

Go and ask your guild-mates "Would you mind if rubberbanding was removed", or hell if you wanna get more detailed "Do you WANT the rubberbanding removed". Since again, tolerance is NOT acceptance.

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

You think that just because people still play that somehow underminds my arguement? Even I still get on and manage to amuse myself. That doesn't mean I'd like to see the rubberbanding stay. You're mistaking tolerance with acceptance. And I speak of what I see, and I'm ALWAYS seeing countless people ***** and moan about the rubberbanding, saying how they wish it wasn't around. Obviously I don't speak for the hundreds of people that play, but when I'm constantly bombardment with complaints, and never any praise, I have to estimate the general feeling towards this feature.

Go and ask your guild-mates "Would you mind if rubberbanding was removed", or hell if you wanna get more detailed "Do you WANT the rubberbanding removed". Since again, tolerance is NOT acceptance.

Funny how you ended the argument with me because you were "bored" and yet you're still debating.

I think the reason becomes more and more obvious by the moment.

[Colt-556]

I ended THAT arguement with you simply because I was using it as amusement, and when it got boring I quit. This arguement however, is something I wanna see happen, because rubberbanding is truly an issue that needs to be dealt with. Not simply have a half-assed "it's being dealt with" answer associated with it.

[Yyss'a]

Even if my guild mates told me "sure we'd like this and that to be done", that does not give you the right to speak in my name or anyone's name that haven't given their official acceptance as you for spokesperson.

Keep the hat, it's the right size.

[Colt-556]

Originally Posted by Yyss'a

Even if my guild mates told me "sure we'd like this and that to be done", that does not give you the right to speak in my name or anyone's name that haven't given their official acceptance as you for spokesperson.

Keep the hat, it's the right size.

I will keep the hat, thanks. But just for the record, I'm not speaking in your name. Only time I'm speaking in anyones name is if they fall under the category of 'wants this gone'

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

I ended THAT arguement with you simply because I was using it as amusement, and when it got boring I quit. This arguement however, is something I wanna see happen, because rubberbanding is truly an issue that needs to be dealt with. Not simply have a half-assed "it's being dealt with" answer associated with it.

Then how come you shrugged off a perfectly valid example, something that is the only means of real communication humans have, as "a retarded/stupid example" without even bothering to say why you thought it was so?

Arguing IS making examples. I would have thought this was obvious from the start. If not, well...it's a wonder I'm still here. It must be because you're still so adamant about something that doesn't even make sense (per the countless arguments that have been put against it - if you'll notice, the people agreeing with you are few and far between) and are shoving your viewpoint down other people's throats like a religious preacher (hmm, I wonder where I've heard that one before).

Originally Posted by Colt-556

I will keep the hat, thanks. But just for the record, I'm not speaking in your name. Only time I'm speaking in anyones name is if they fall under the category of 'wants this gone'

I can't find my pencil

[Colt-556]

I was sick of the example spam, I made an example, you made one, I made one, you made one. Was retarded. And it wouldn't have made sense if I responded only to go "no more".

As for people agreeing with me, I can count the number of people I've seen for the rubberbanding on one hand, I can't even count the ammount of people I've seen who want it gone. So maybe we are the minority, but if that's the case I asked, where's the majority? Cuz I don't see em.

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

I was sick of the example spam, I made an example, you made one, I made one, you made one. Was retarded. And it wouldn't have made sense if I responded only to go "no more".

As for people agreeing with me, I can count the number of people I've seen for the rubberbanding on one hand, I can't even count the ammount of people I've seen who want it gone. So maybe we are the minority, but if that's the case I asked, where's the majority? Cuz I don't see em.

I may as well spam this from now on because it's pretty much what you've been doing the whole time:

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

I can't find my pencil

Oh and in case you have trouble grasping what I mean, I'm saying you're missing the point. There.

[Yyss'a]

Fair enough.

I just want to know if I get correctly what you are asking for?

What you meant to say is, you believe that it would be better if no part of this community, big or small, suffer from a measure that isn't proven to be effective. In that regard, you would like to see proof that the measure is currently effective or even better, being improved, or therefore removed so no one has to suffer from it?

Did I get it right? If not, make sure to correct me because I am just trying to clarify, not speaking for you.

Now, my argumentation.

We are here to participate as testers on a project led by SWGEmu's developers and staffs. The TC we log on in is their property, they pay the bills for everything it needs (even though they are being helped through benevolent donations).

Being a tester on the TC is a privilege, not a right. We are invited to party in the SWGEmu's castle in the trees, their own private property and they make the rules.

If they believe that they need the anti-hack system on to do their job the best, their job being sacrificing part of their lives to make SWGEmu work at pre-cu level, I will gladly comply.

I already am grateful for the chance I had to revisit the Galaxy because without the SWGEmu core staff, it might never had happened at all.

Aren't you grateful for that, Colt?

[Colt-556]

You got it right.

As for your arguement, I was told the anti-hack was only added because the community whined about speed-hackers, not because the devs themselves really cared. And even so, the facts are the facts, rubberbanding inhibits testing, it slows down our testing capabilities if it doubles the time necessary to move places. That's just a cold hard fact. Now ontop of that, it's PROVEN not to work, otherwise they wouldn't be fixing it. So while it's their right to choose what to do, the question is "why?" The current anti-hack doesn't work, no one really likes it, why not simply remove it? The database will be wiped so anything gained through hacking wont last.

Once the anti-hack is in a working state, re-add it, it's all good. NO ONE is saying there shouldn't be an anti-hack, they're saying that if there's going to be one, make sure it works, or atleast doesn't hurt everyone.

And obviously I'm grateful, I wouldn't be playing it, and campaigning to remove a blight-filled feature if I wasn't

[Yyss'a]

Formulated that way, I wish to shake hands with you, Colt. Let's hope the whole situation improves as fast as can be, as best as can be. Let's put the mean hat back in the closet, since it wouldn't fit on you anymore.

Maybe filing bug reports on how the anti-hack system behaves with current testing could prove a very constructive way to make things better? I get that the anti-hack system is part of the server's dynamic, I can't see why we cannot report it all the same when it does bug.