Divided we fail. The future of Pre-CU

[Tow'lin]

to biopilia as well:
While ignorance is sometimes bliss, I really beleive that many issues should be brought to the community's attention. This is a big one. I have no doubt that this will bring about many great changes. I agree, that some things should be kept private, but the more the community knows, the better.

PS: love your scrapbook!

And to kyle:
This has to be the most inpirational post i've ever seen. This makes me proud to be part of the emu community AND moreso the Pre-CU community.

Regards,
Tow'lin Tow

[Biophilia]

I do hope it all works out, but I have a problem with involving a community that is certainly unaware of all the issues that might prevent a union. We are not arbitrators, we're just 3rd party observers with a muddy obfuscating window to peer through.

in what way are we supposed to help?

[Lordcorm]

Originally Posted by Biophilia

I do hope it all works out, but I have a problem with involving a community that is certainly unaware of all the issues that might prevent a union. We are not arbitrators, we're just 3rd party observers with a muddy obfuscating window to peer through.

in what way are we supposed to help?

Keeping the community informed is important. If we didnt do so, we would be just as bad as SOE, by not letting the community come into the dev's decision making process.

[TAfirehawk]

Originally Posted by Lordcorm

Keeping the community informed is important. If we didnt do so, we would be just as bad as SOE, by not letting the community come into the dev's decision making process.

Absolutely correct...as I saw many things inside SOE that if the community had known things, well it might have been different (but probably not).

As I posted earlier, this is also a call to all players, not just coders to help bring the right info and testing to help make the best product possible. This is far bigger than just a bunch of coders....

[darksniper843]

Meeting with who the other pre-cu ppl or u and swg?

[Ekowraith]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Ekaika]

Originally Posted by Smusatto

Just to let everyone know, the lines of communication are open and we've got a meeting planned for later tonight. We'll see how it goes...

Can you share with whom you're speaking at this point?

[nostyleguy]

I understand biophilia's point of view. This situation isn't like how SOE kept the community out of the loop. Its apples and oranges. SOE didn't let players give any input into the development of features and changes that affected the game. I think we all have faith enough in the EMU team to not make that mistake. however, Biophilia's point is that the community is generally ery ignorant about 'closed door' issues such as SWGEmu's dealings with ANH or other emulator teams. Hell, half the posters here dont even know who the SWGEmu developers are. This leads to many uninformed people making speculations as to the relations and dealings of the Emu team. these speculations are at best misleading to the community, and at worst ignorant and detrimental to Emu. I still think making this public was a good move, but i think the community needs to get the whole story before it starts making assumptions based on limited (new) knowledge.

[Kylrathin]

Congrats, guys. Hope you can get it done. This team's come a long way over the years.

[Vrej]

This kind of came out of left field...

I thought this stuff was far in the past in this Emu. It seems every time it is brought up, it is done so in a very melancholy way. "Divided We Fail" doesn't exactly encourage the good spirit the team has been carrying for quite some time now since open source. (Hence left field)

I'm all for the uniting of teams, but couldn't it be more like "United We Get There Faster" type of posts?

[Newsound]

Glad to see the maturity level being raised here. I had to take a break from keeping up with SWGEMU cuz all there was to read about was lame drama.

Over the past few months I have noticed a drastic change in attitudes and the communication brought to the forums. I applauded the efforts being attempted in this thread. Even if other groups do not group up right away, these events IMO are major milestones for our community.

Good luck to developers.

[Pynda]

I've seen the efforts made by SWGemu over the last six months or so to mend fences with (all members of) the community, and it hasn't gone unnoticed. At least by me. Thanks.

But I can understand where the ANH devs might have a problem coding for a project where they would have no 'ownership' of their work. And where SWGemu could - theoretically at least - announce at the last minute that the completed emu was, for instance, not going to be released publicly but was going to be run only on private servers. However on the other hand, I sympathize completely with the right of the SWGemu devs to use their proprietary part of the game engine (core 3) as a separate and potentially profit making enterprise.

So it does seem like a real conundrum. And perhaps the best we really can hope for is a better sharing of information. As was mentioned earlier in this thread by syvart.

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by ekaika forge

Can you share with whom you're speaking at this point?

Sure. We just got done meeting with Snow. It was a very cordial conversation and we covered a lot of information. He is going to share the log with the ANH team and we'll see what happens from there.

Originally Posted by Pynda

And where SWGemu could - theoretically at least - announce at the last minute that the completed emu was, for instance, not going to be released publicly but was going to be run only on private servers.

This is crazy talk. We feel it is now our obligation to release it for everyone to use, considering so many people have contributed since we went open source. Each and everyone of them should have the opportunity to run their own server if they want to. They helped make it happen. It's only right.

[Seaseme]

Originally Posted by Pynda

I've seen the efforts made by SWGemu over the last six months or so to mend fences with (all members of) the community, and it hasn't gone unnoticed. At least by me. Thanks.

This is all for you. We realized that the childish ways we had weren't going to get us anywhere. In order to attract more talented programmers to this project and further expand our community it's important to treat it with respect. You guys are why we're here, and this is all for you. You're very welcome.

But I can understand where the ANH devs might have a problem coding for a project where they would have no 'ownership' of their work.

This wasn't JUST about the ANH devs, it's also about the other people out there who feel like we have wronged them in the past. God knows that's a lot of people. But this project has a goal now, and I think finally it's getting safe to say that we can see light on the end of the tunnel. We're trying to finish strong. We could do this by ourselves, but we could see this emulator in half the time if some of the talented people from server communities and our community step forward and lend a hand.

And where SWGemu could - theoretically at least - announce at the last minute that the completed emu was, for instance, not going to be released publicly but was going to be run only on private servers.

Here is a quote from me. That will NEVER happen. This project is open source. We owe so much to our great community that I can't even express it. Like I said before, this is for them and you. We want you guys to have the best possible emulator that we can provide. We're redesigning our homepage to be more emu-centric and welcoming, and it will also allow new members to get started MUCH easier. Also Kyle and a few others have been working on tools to help the community be involved. These tools will allow people who are less tech savvy to participate in the development process.

However on the other hand, I sympathize completely with the right of the SWGemu devs to use their proprietary part of the game engine (core 3) as a separate and potentially profit making enterprise.

That is a long way down the road. Pre-cu is our goal at the moment.

So it does seem to me like a real conundrum. And perhaps the best we really can hope for is a better sharing of information. As was mentioned earlier in this thread by syvart.

Perhaps. But that's why we're talking about it. We don't want to make any rash decisions.

I hope that clears up some questions/doubts/fears of everyone else.

[Ekaika]

Excellent post Seasame. And thanks Smus for replying.

Watching all this happen from the beginning to where we are today is simply amazing. It's a coming of age.