Discussion

[Jani_Leitquenen]

Originally Posted by Smusatto

Let's see. Yes, I'm a mod for a reason. What's wrong with pointing out I do this in my spare time? You expect me to act as a professional would, yet I'm not a professional. I think it's something relevant to point out. It's not my fault you failed to understand.

I think this quote will help me explain what I meant in my previous post, cos it didn´t come out as clearly as I´d have liked to (English is my second language, and that may be the reason why). The reason why people expect you to act like a professional, smusatto, is because most people expect Moderators to be impartial and professional, whether they get paid for it or not.

Earlier, when you were telling that guy if he was joking, and praising the competence (and I understand you doing that, honestly. That was very rude of him, not to mention his later post, and it takes some patience to react like you did), while I personally didn´t care that you said so (I felt it was an ok response), I still pointed it out that you sounded unprofessional when doing it, because the truth is, it somewhat felt like that, to me, and I am sure to others, simply because of the fact that a moderator isn´t only supposed to keep things in check, but also be a sort of "public face" for the team.

Again, I don´t want to sound like I´m attacking you, cos I am not. I am merely trying to point out things that some people will not like and that will make them feel that the mods are unfriendly, or hard to deal with, on first sight (this is, after all, part of what the thread is about). First oppinions are very important, and if you didn´t know what the other guy was talking about, the one that looks bad to the uninformed may be you.

I hope that clarifies the point of my earlier post, otherwise PM me and I´ll try to explain it better (I don´t wanna derail the thread with something as anecdotical as this). Take it as my 2 cents on how you guys can improve your image, and not as in "LAWL, mods suck, u guyz dunno how 2 mod!!1!11!!"

[TooCoolx14]

How about you ****ing retards finish the emu software then we'll start posting more.

Why do you expect to have a community for something that isn't even operating yet. You want more of a community? Stop wasting time making posts like this and get your ****ing ass back in the garage and back to coding. You ****s have been at this project for a good 2 years, and don't have a whole lot to show for. The basic amount of combat you do have to show is BARELY even scratching the surface of what SWG pre-cu was.

So please, suck less, and stop blaming the community for your inability to finish this thing.

[linkcenturica]

Originally Posted by TooCoolx14

How about you ****ing retards finish the emu software then we'll start posting more.

Why do you expect to have a community for something that isn't even operating yet. You want more of a community? Stop wasting time making posts like this and get your ****ing ass back in the garage and back to coding. You ****s have been at this project for a good 2 years, and don't have a whole lot to show for. The basic amount of combat you do have to show is BARELY even scratching the surface of what SWG pre-cu was.

So please, suck less, and stop blaming the community for your inability to finish this thing.

Just what do they owe you that they MUST deliver something? Do you feel that the devs of SWGEmu owe anyone anything? If it wasn't for them, the basic hope of PreCU SWG will not even exist.

So you, sir, can either help out with what we have here, or just stfu and bring your bashing elsewhere.

These good people are doing this out of their own ****ing goodwill and passion for the SWG we had, and it just ticks me off to hear people like you who have done ZERO PERCENT to help out.


On my contribution to this suggestion, Ramsey, a segmented development area could be whats needed to get the feedback your guys need. Break the development down to smaller parts, like crafting for example. Put down what you need (stats, data, anything!) for certain aspects of crafting (resourcing, survey, experimentation, etc) and people can start contributing documents to that end.

My 2 credits, don't know if that fits what you guys have in mind/doing now. But if thats going down, I want part of it

[Ramsey]

How about you ****ing retards finish the emu software then we'll start posting more.

Why do you expect to have a community for something that isn't even operating yet. You want more of a community? Stop wasting time making posts like this and get your ****ing ass back in the garage and back to coding. You ****s have been at this project for a good 2 years, and don't have a whole lot to show for. The basic amount of combat you do have to show is BARELY even scratching the surface of what SWG pre-cu was.

So please, suck less, and stop blaming the community for your inability to finish this thing.

Come back when you can produce a good post.
Or better,
come back when you can produce an emulator.

[Jani_Leitquenen]

Guys, enough bashing and criticising. The devs are doing an awesome job as far as developing is concerned, and personal attacks are uncalled for. Don´t sabotage what´s trying to be accomplished with threads like this one.

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by Jani_Leitquenen

I think this quote will help me explain what I meant in my previous post, cos it didn´t come out as clearly as I´d have liked to (English is my second language, and that may be the reason why). The reason why people expect you to act like a professional, smusatto, is because most people expect Moderators to be impartial and professional, whether they get paid for it or not.

Earlier, when you were telling that guy if he was joking, and praising the competence (and I understand you doing that, honestly. That was very rude of him, not to mention his later post, and it takes some patience to react like you did), while I personally didn´t care that you said so (I felt it was an ok response), I still pointed it out that you sounded unprofessional when doing it, because the truth is, it somewhat felt like that, to me, and I am sure to others, simply because of the fact that a moderator isn´t only supposed to keep things in check, but also be a sort of "public face" for the team.

Again, I don´t want to sound like I´m attacking you, cos I am not. I am merely trying to point out things that some people will not like and that will make them feel that the mods are unfriendly, or hard to deal with, on first sight (this is, after all, part of what the thread is about). First oppinions are very important, and if you didn´t know what the other guy was talking about, the one that looks bad to the uninformed may be you.

I hope that clarifies the point of my earlier post, otherwise PM me and I´ll try to explain it better (I don´t wanna derail the thread with something as anecdotical as this). Take it as my 2 cents on how you guys can improve your image, and not as in "LAWL, mods suck, u guyz dunno how 2 mod!!1!11!!"

I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Your English is just fine. I don't mind some constructive criticism. I think that's what this thread was meant for.

For the most part, I do remain pretty professional. People who come here disrespecting the team don't deserve my respect imo. In the future, I won't respond. I'll just remove the posts and the trouble maker(s).

[Halifax]

I don't see any reason why you can't respond, Smusatto, you can just give the players a cookie cutter response, and ask them to come to PMs for anything else. Then locked the threads. That would be far more professional, then to just close/lock the threads, and ban the players.

Also, I have yet to see a moderator really come across as a real d-bag, a few times I felt they were doing something for their own personal reason, and not because of SWGEmu's rules. Overall, I don't think there is too much of a moderating problem.

I also would like to throw in maybe limiting newer people toposting in a certain sections before they can go into over sections. To keep people from making totally out of place threads about how excited they are about the emulator in "New Server Idea Forum."

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by Halifax

I don't see any reason why you can't respond, Smusatto, you can just give the players a cookie cutter response, and ask them to come to PMs for anything else. Then locked the threads. That would be far more professional, then to just close/lock the threads, and ban the players.

Don't get me wrong. I do my best to avoid deleting or locking any posts. If I do, I tend to do just what you suggested. However, when somebody comes here brown nosing the competition, I have very little tolerance for them. Posts like that serve no purpose here, so I don't see the harm in removing them. If you see a problem with that, please help me understand.

[NuWind]

I apologize for not reading all 37 pages in the entirity but it just looks like it became a flameflest of responsbility and a debate of purpose and proficienty.

Be understanding, and keep an open mind.

to all those who have forgotten the fact that your here because of all this, and this is here because people are taking their free time to bring all of us SWG, doesnt permit impatience or encourage waving around a finger of blame. keep that it mind when you offer your "suggestions" we all want to see this happen, lets just try to be a little more constructive (not saying people havent been, ive seen some good threads branch of this one)...

[Merx]

I am a Pre CU Player, and have tried to get into the IRC but am at a complete loss at how to use it. I would love nothing more than to be able to play Pre-CU but last time I tried the EMU there was no combat, no skills, no nothing, just chatting.
If there is more that I can do to maybe play, and help please let me know but last I knew we needed special permissions to access the EMU test center, and I don't have that.

[Amoco]

Suggestion 1: More suggestion specific forums. Having 1 suggestion forum for EVERYTHING is absurd at this point. Everyone has suggestions,ideas, hopes etc. but it just falls into the swamp with so many other posts/flames.
Until release, have a Combat Suggestions forum. A Crafting Suggestions forum. Stress Test suggestion forum. A Jedi Suggestion forum. Of course, I've heard it mentioned the reason why this isn't so is because of moderation, which brings me to my second suggestion

Suggestion 2: Stop the moderation and have a more pronounced "Report Post" button for threads so that one moderator could go through and bam bam lock/delete/ban if they need to. Trust me, the community is going to grow so large you guys won't be able to moderate it anyhow, so you had better lay the foundation for a self-policed and organized community now.

Suggestion 3: Sticky and gather the constructive posts. You can't stop flame wars, but you can still gleam the concepts and ideas from them and put them into an orderly list.

Suggestion 4: The reliance on the clunky and ancient IRC for this massive project will soon reach the point of laughable. The only client you should expect this many people to have is a web browser and their swg game discs, beyond that you will end up pulling your hair out (if you haven't already)

[RabidDog]

Ramsey has been very patient, and understanding about the banning frustration. To this point I have been quiet, because of a number of reasons, and some you have named:
1. Getting flamed.
2. I had herd of strict banning.
3. Was not sure if I would be heard.

These are just a few of the issues that have kept me silent, but as I read all 38 pages of post ig ot disgusted. We as a community need to stop with blame, and holding past grudges. It is obvious by Ramseys posts the devs are acknowledging prior mistakes, and now asking for the community to help. There have been some good ideas, and I have a back ground in advertising, but the one most powerful form of advertising has escaped everyones grasp. approx. 70% of products in the current market are originally bought NOT by TV, fliers, radio, or any other costly form of advertising. Most of those products are bought by WORD OF MOUTH, and that is still the most successful.

Now I know all, or at least most of you had friends when you played SWG, and that most of you had guildies, or community friends that you may have gotten email addresses from. Now, if you think about it, if we have 8000 members, and if every member had 5 email addresses to friends that you started to lose touch with. If you take the time of 15 minutes to write and send a nice email, giving information about the SWGEmu, and how it will be bringing back the game the loved. We as a community just made an 40,000 person, direct advertisement. Remember, 90% of all emails that are personalized, by recognizable email addresses, are read as long as they do not have FWD in the front.

This may not be the best way to reach people on a immediate, large scale. However, if we get 50% of those 40,000, and they each send 5 emails, now we have touched 100,000. This can cascade for a long time, and have a snowball effect. This can just kick off an advertising push, to inform people about the SWGEmu.

This community will succeed, or fail with us together, not because of the devs, and the devs wont succeed without our best effort to help.

Thank you
Rabid

[blacky]

My personal opinion (well, why i stopped being interested) is when the server went closed. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with closed source (i think i was "shihan" back on the old forums but i cant remember). I submitted one patch for the previous OSS core. But thats not why i'm no longer an active member.

I still stop by to see how its progressing and for me alot of what im interested in the hackability of the thing which is hard to explain so i'll give an example from when dolserver hit the streets.

When dolserver first came out I was very keen to try it for all the reasons anyone likes using server emu's. But its also something you can be actively involved in (unlike its sister project coad). The first thing I did when the code was good enough to login to was code up a auction merchant in its internal scripting language. That led to other things like the developer adding new hooks in the scripting language and so forth. In short, i was able to participate (as in have an impact on the project) without being an active dev for the project and still actually coding (now and then) for it.

I guess what im saying in is its hard to comment on vapourware (not that this is entirely vapourware, but its something the "users" really cant touch). The question "What do you want to be able to do in the scriptable npc's" is hard to answer because the answer is (in broad terms) obvious and hard to define in finer detail without actually seeing how coding an NPC would be like.

Lets say you coded the scripting engine such that it had 4 hooks:
1) when someone talks to it
2) when someone attacks it
3) when someone comes within a certain range
4) when someone leaves a certain range
Obviously this is very limited, but its a starting point, so users downloaded the source, get it running, code an npc and then find "ahh, we need some state information because this guys giving a multi-part quest".

Again, thats only a small example (of one particular component of swgemu) but it illustrates what im trying to get at and im sure im not the only one who feels that way.

Again, im not saying SWGEMU should be OSS, im just saying its the reason i personally have stopped hanging around (which is probably a good thing anyways )

[Jonny_Sunset]

in a distant future i'd really love if our character could jump and eventualy /forcejump. This may be impossible then again its only a suggestion!!!

[fenderbean]

okay now I know why people are complaining, i just got banned from mirc for no reason theres some auto ban if u ask about certain things. no wonder everyone is scared to talk. gssssh and the rude remarks that come with the ban message are uncalled for :mad: