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  #256  
Old 03-31-2007, 05:49 PM
inzaneflea inzaneflea is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
I only post on my SWG Emu Server's message boards...Maybe I'll frequent here more often now.
  #257  
Old 03-31-2007, 10:05 PM
slave1dodger slave1dodger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
this is only the second post i have ever done. my first one was when i first joined as a member. i asked for help and two members responded. they both told me that new members asking questions tends to piss off other members and i should just sit back and wait for the game to develop. i took their advice. but i would love to participate in the stress tests and any other action that i could be involved in. i got another member to join since i been here and we both still have many questions. i hope i dont offend anyone by posting this as i am looking forward to joining the game and playing the old style of a game that i greatly enjoy.
  #258  
Old 04-01-2007, 01:07 AM
Iovid Iovid is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 63
I know this is going to sound like I am a jerk but I see the same things being repeated in this thread and I want to try to give another perspective. No one is required to like it, I just want people to realize that they are responsible for the state of the community more then they take responsibility for.

I have watched IRC #swgemu & #test now every day since January so anything I say applies to that time frame.

One of the biggest gripes I am hearing is that new people get flamed immediately for asking questions in IRC chat. From what I have witnessed this is untrue. people rarely get flamed for asking a question but when it does happen, its because the person involved is asking a question that was answered in the FAQ's and they are just too lazy to read them even when someone is nice enough to redirect them to the forum. I have seen people get flamed a bit in IRC chat for other reason but 75% of the time that new person entered the room as if they were 13 years old and their daddy owned the place and their opinion is the only "right" one and everyone else should be forced ot listen to them. They are rude and demanding and SO MANY of them have never played the game or they only played for a few months or only during the NGE. These players are the ones I see asking very basic questions in IRC but posting tons of threads on new ideas for the game. Those types of people are the ones who screamed so loud to SOE to "balance the game" and you see where it got us. People deserved to be respected but you can NOT take ever person's gripe or opinion seriously or else we might as well just play the NGE again.
  #259  
Old 04-01-2007, 05:18 AM
Ekaika Ekaika is offline
Retired Community Deputy Director
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oahu
Posts: 5,073
Good thread Ramz, sorry I haven't been around much. I spent quite a bit of time on the forums leading up to the stress test, and then sort of stopped.

I suppose it was because of a couple things:

After the test, I was up to speed on what's what. I am waiting on the next update.

IRC has been of little use to me except to check status. When I have logged in, there's so much random conversation, and none of it has anything to do with the emu, so I usually don't stay. If I did, I'm sure I'd get some tidbits though.

The community has definitely grown so much since the 1st stress. Lots of new people. I got frustrated trying to help out answering questions over and over. People will never learn. I guess I should be more patient though.

My thoughts to build/improve:

Update the front page with links, giant flashing neon banner with FAQ CLICK ME on it (lol).

A set monthly update would be great. You guys probably don't think it's much worth talking about little things, but giving everyone something to look forward to would keep em coming back. The Q/A thing is great, but once a month is all you need, if that. More than that is a waste of time for you.

I never minded the loose language much (well I flamed Hellaz alot but he's particularly nasty lol) but as the community grows, you're going to get more that the 20-30 something males here. Might want to tone all the foulness down to make it more safe for the masses.

Definitely link server-status to the front page or embed it in the page somewhere. I know you want people on IRC, but you're going to have to move away from that for things to grow eventually.

I had asked a while back to help mod the forums when things were booming. Can't do it anymore, but I think someones idea of a nominated small group of people directed to answer the basic questions and bring more complex ones to you would be helpful. Phantom and Smus and you devs don't have time enough to deal with all of it. No power per se, but just a Community Q/A Rep or something.

That's all I got. Glad to see you're taking a real interest in this. The project itself will attract folks, but to really blow it up you're going to need this type of activity. Good stuff.

Eka
  #260  
Old 04-01-2007, 05:30 AM
LSky LSky is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
People shouldn't be bashing ultyma. Who can blame the guy for getting pissed off? If you were putting in huge amounts of time into a free project that you weren't getting **** for and people always *****ed and moaned, I'd get pissed too.
I'm sure everyone gets pissed of at some point. However, one dev takes the "I'm pissed" to a certain level that it doesn't help anyone. If that happens, don't be surprised when people don't want to read the forums or get on IRC.
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  #261  
Old 04-01-2007, 05:52 AM
Litintha Litintha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In WoW now...
Posts: 4
I have checked every now an then, but i have been VERY hesitate to post anything. I think my last post was in the general chat forum where i made the analogy of CU being Syphilis and NGE being AIDS or something like that.

Anyway. Here are a few of some "problems" that i have observed and some simple solutions:

1. The horrible attitude of the mods.
Since the mods here have stated several times, in this thread alone, that the old mods are almost all gone, i think there needs to be a statement, possibly a stickied thread in all forums, with this information. Even with newer, much more considerate, mods on the forums, people are still terrified to post anything for threat of being flamed for banned. This stems from what the old mods instilled into people. Some type of announcement needs to be made that new mods have come in, and are MUCH MORE willing to help and assist than previous mods. If this thread was stickied in all forums, more people would read and therefore, more people would post because their fears would be lifted, which leads to more community involvement.

2. We never get updates.
Another simple fix. You can create announcements on the main page, as well as threads throughout the forums, listing some of the most recent additions to Core3. This can be done weekly, bi-weekly, tri-weekly, monthy, etc. These additions may include, but not limited to: Profession tree updates, Combat updates, Stability updates, Upcoming public content testing, In-game traveling, and overall progress. With this fix, people will become informed on the status of the emulator, as well as eliminate all the 'What is being done" and "what is the progress" threads that appear.

3. The IRC chat is useless
If you plan on using the IRC channel as a means to communicate with the community in instant-message chat, then something needs to be done to make it more viable for it. From what i have read, people just sit in the IRC chat room and wait for some kind of update. If you want to continue to update the community on the happenings with the emulator on the IRC channel, perhaps setting a date/time for a representative from SWGEmu to give a brief summary of the progress would be a good start.

4. It is hard to get information to the community servers.
This is where my Public Relations education pays off. Perhaps once a month, set up a date/time when a representative from SWGEmu will go into IRC and hold a "press conference" type of situation. During this time, the IRC channel would be passworded off so only "reporters" from the community servers would be able to enter and ask questions. The way this "press conference" would be conducted is up to the person holding it, as long as it is conducted in a fair manner for the "reporters" who are present and asking questions.

5. They are mean to me!
Well...not much i can say about this, but i do have a solution. When someone asks a question that is in the FAQ, please try your best to POLITELY direct them to the FAQ page for more information. After that is posted, LOCK the thread so that no one else can come in and start to flame the new member.

That is all i have for now. If someone else comes to mind, you will see it. :-)

<3
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  #262  
Old 04-01-2007, 05:59 AM
LSky LSky is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litintha View Post
1. The horrible attitude of the mods.
Since the mods here have stated several times, in this thread alone, that the old mods are almost all gone, i think there needs to be a statement, possibly a stickied thread in all forums, with this information. Even with newer, much more considerate, mods on the forums, people are still terrified to post anything for threat of being flamed for banned. This stems from what the old mods instilled into people. Some type of announcement needs to be made that new mods have come in, and are MUCH MORE willing to help and assist than previous mods. If this thread was stickied in all forums, more people would read and therefore, more people would post because their fears would be lifted, which leads to more community involvement.
Not sure if that would help that much, but I suppose it would not hurt posting such an announcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litintha View Post
2. We never get updates.
Another simple fix. You can create announcements on the main page, as well as threads throughout the forums, listing some of the most recent additions to Core3. This can be done weekly, bi-weekly, tri-weekly, monthy, etc. These additions may include, but not limited to: Profession tree updates, Combat updates, Stability updates, Upcoming public content testing, In-game traveling, and overall progress. With this fix, people will become informed on the status of the emulator, as well as eliminate all the 'What is being done" and "what is the progress" threads that appear.
Before one can post an announcement, there needs to be something to show. I believe the devs decided not to post a large amount of small updates, but rather a little amount of larger updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litintha View Post
3. The IRC chat is useless
If you plan on using the IRC channel as a means to communicate with the community in instant-message chat, then something needs to be done to make it more viable for it. From what i have read, people just sit in the IRC chat room and wait for some kind of update. If you want to continue to update the community on the happenings with the emulator on the IRC channel, perhaps setting a date/time for a representative from SWGEmu to give a brief summary of the progress would be a good start.
Not a bad idea either. Though I don't think it's going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litintha View Post
4. It is hard to get information to the community servers.
This is where my Public Relations education pays off. Perhaps once a month, set up a date/time when a representative from SWGEmu will go into IRC and hold a "press conference" type of situation. During this time, the IRC channel would be passworded off so only "reporters" from the community servers would be able to enter and ask questions. The way this "press conference" would be conducted is up to the person holding it, as long as it is conducted in a fair manner for the "reporters" who are present and asking questions.
How is this helpful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litintha View Post
5. They are mean to me!
Well...not much i can say about this, but i do have a solution. When someone asks a question that is in the FAQ, please try your best to POLITELY direct them to the FAQ page for more information. After that is posted, LOCK the thread so that no one else can come in and start to flame the new member.
Some mods and members do this, others don't. I don't agree on locking the thread immediately. If the newer person has another question to ask, then he we feel bad because his thread was locked. If the problem arises that people start flaming the newer guy/girl after someone already redirected the person to th FAQ, then just give those flamers a warning/ban.
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  #263  
Old 04-01-2007, 08:20 AM
Veora Veora is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14
I read the forums, just dont post, the flameflowers scare me
  #264  
Old 04-01-2007, 08:59 AM
Knuckles
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Another point that irritates me is that its people who never played preCU that makes up a good portion of moderators and devs. Its abit scary
  #265  
Old 04-01-2007, 09:53 AM
johnnydement johnnydement is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Fresh start on forums

Delete all, crowd with guides,readmes, rules and howtos, for dumbs, not that you think it's understandable, ask your granny if she gets it...

HAve a timeline, wowroster has a great timeline and progress update system that is build inside dragonfly... swapping to that would give you a lot more versability than a plain vbulletin forum...

Don't think IRC is the best way to communicate... is not good during test sessions, because you will not be alttabbing the game to check irc, better an ingame channel, nor good for keeping relationship with the community, if you're not ther, you miss the info... damn! I was working/sleeping/feeding the raptor... and I will not know anymore... because I'm scared of asking...

No direct devs intervention, they get pissed because of what we say, and we get pissed because they don't say much... Q/Q threads, IRC sessions with them, but no direct participation (they can always have a multinick to lurk forums...)

Polls, lots of polls, poll new suggestions...
  #266  
Old 04-01-2007, 10:02 AM
thenetavenger thenetavenger is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
IRC - Only use for Real Time Chat Server testing until you can get a Global Chat working on the server. IRC is not something casual people are going to figure out nor participate in when activity in the rooms can be from tons of non-essential banter to silence.

Forums - Structure, Structure, Structure. Right now navigating for information that is already out there is a pain, also there is a lot of outdated information on the forums that is confusing to non geeks.

Ask for participation - When you were first starting out there were several very direct requests from the community members for information about the game, logs, etc. Give us the same requests and many will help as they can. Now it seems as more of your work is behind closed doors, we can't contribute unless you request some very specifics from people. There are even developers out here sitting idle, and if you could block out code that they could assist with or at least help psuedo code, it could be a win win.

What people want the Servers to do - This should be an EASY answer for your team. Bring the game as close to pre-cu operationally as possible, and keep it generic at first to what was provided in pre-cu. This includes full implementation of Crafting, correct NPC spawns, Imperial Drops, Tefing, PVP, location of key NPCs in the pre-cu live world, etc.

Once you provide the game as it was, then you can look for ideas, or changes in administration features, options, add-on, etc. Don't let your goal fall into the gridlock of trying to please everyone or anyone, just make the game EXACTLY as the pre-cu was at first. The only request would be to have at the very least basic CSR Level controls for Admins to assist players, and it appears you are already on top of most of these commands.

Then you can make changes to allow more admin control from everything from holo only jedi to scripted content/NPCs and a way for people of the community to add new content to be shared, including worlds, etc.

JTL should be the last major expansion goal in what you provide as the generic core pre-cu server. Then as time allows let others help in working on bringing on new features like the other planets, etc.

People are screaming to just be a Rifleman/Fencer in a pre-cu world, and there is no MMO that currently offers the diverse pick and choose skill set, so start there and give everyone the basic game and build from there.
  #267  
Old 04-01-2007, 12:26 PM
DarkAku DarkAku is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Ramsey,

First I'm not sure if I've ever played on SWG with you ramsey might have, so in the event that I did, I might have been a jerk too so first up front I'M SUPER SORRY IF I WAS. I've changed a lot since the past etc.

With that up front so everyone in the community can see now, onto the suggestions you asked for..

My Background:
I own and run a webpage since 1993. I've started/owned various local real life clubs in the past. I've been in various guilds in various games. I am/have been a manager in various professions retail, engineering, staging lead etc. So I've seen the good and the bad in all situations

My Suggestions:

1.) Legality of the EMU - I know that in the past and current the devs won't/can't talk about the legality of the EMU, from a previous post someone recently showed that there have been talks between SOE, LucusArts and the Devs. This scares a lot of community members off knowing if they should even get involved in this, not knowing if they can go to jail for playing the EMU.
Possible Fix: - Give people the end all be all of what you can say about this being/not being illegal. I do understand that there might be an agreement about saying anything but something should be posted about it, not just saying this isn't illegal.
2.) Weekly/Bi-weekly Updates - This is a must for any community from the Devs. If the community doesn't see any progress or any thoughts from the devs about how things are going it doesn't spark any interest. People will be like I guess what others say is true this will never get done. Post something even if it's nothing major any small accomplishment is AWESOME you guys rock for doing this for the Masses.
Q/A Thought - As for the Q/A suggestion I saw that would be great not sure how it would work for an in TC Q/A but that would kick butt or an IRC Q/A
3.) IRC Issues - I don't IRC much anymore in my old age. Did lots of it when I was younger. From what I can gather from others posts there seems to be too much crap on the IRC [IE: Flames, banning, etc.] The way to fix this is try to have more than one moderator on the channel at a time and they have to come to a agreement to ban or what not a person.
Side Note - I don't IRC because I just don't have time in real life to do a lot of chatting, I'm working on so many projects for fun just don't have time.
4.) TC Server Status - This suggestion should be put up as well. It's hard for many to IRC to see if the TC is up, so having something other than one place to check, remember the saying Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Simply put, have more than one place telling the status of the server.

5.) Forums and Issues - I'm just going to repeat what others have said and throw out some suggestions. Flames everywhere, too disorganized, not good mods currently.
a.) Devs shouldn't have time to watch the forums and moderate them. We should have various ACTIVE moderators where when a flame is posted, it is deleted ASAP and a PM sent to that poster not to post flames etc.
b.) This is for everyone. There will be newbies anywhere you go for anything. Stop being rude, flame, etc. Old and New fans to the EMU should be welcomed. Some of the newbies are young kids that just heard of it, others played Pre-CU and all are curious about the EMU educate them. Look at the end of this post to see everything I'm working on in my personal life and I still take the time to help newbies on my website and haven't tried too much on here yet, but soon.
c.) It was said before Structure. The community is large so the forums should be more detailed and organized. What I mean by this as others have stated, A newbie forum no matter what they ask someone will point them in the right direction or help them, Future server ideas needs to have sub-forums in there, like jedi, game mechanics, rides, ships etc. This should be done in all the forums if needed.
6.) Website needs additions - So far this website is just a forum website. While great and all, there needs more content. I've started a tiki wiki for someone in the forums to host all the pre-cu guides, but since I have 0% experience with a wiki I've asked for help with no takers yet. Maybe this should be more on this website. I'm willing to help etc. If not was considering making a site strictly for guides only. I would like to see this more for the main site thou but just a suggestion there. Site needs ideas other than just having forums.

7.) Advertising - I'm not sure how to go about helping getting the word out about the EMU and I think for some people it comes down to reason/suggestion #1. There are many things we can do tons of SWG sites out there post on their sites, talk to friends, go to your local gaming store and ask to put up flyers, etc etc. but still comes down to my first suggestion.

8.) EMU/Community Structure - Being a manager in various types of jobs and thinking about starting my own company let me say this. We need to micro manage things here. Let me get to some sub points here:
a.) Devs has started this project for themselves as well as for us all. But someone stated before once a project gets to this level of hype, involvement and community. The Devs no longer really own what is going on, meaning without you guys there is no EMU without the community as you want us to give suggestions and be active there is no EMU worth playing. So we should have like a project manager someone who might not know of coding the game etc. but someone who can be on the same role as a Dev more of a PR thing. Someone who can say to a dev hey you need to knock that off or why isn't this done yet in coding what is the issue, can the community help with something to ease your pain or problems? Having someone who has the same power that the devs do that way the devs can keep the manager in check and the manager can keep the devs in check with any problems that come up with anything.
b.) With that main part over, same thing with everything in the community. Website should have a main person running it that isn't a dev (let the devs worry about the game, but be in the background to stop a take over etc.) Same with the forum. Like a manager structure in retail: Owners, Regional Managers, Store Managers, Assistant Managers, Shift Leaders, CSR (the ones that deal with the customers directly)

In the end I'm trying to learn Japanese, VB, VB.net, SQL, Access, working 50hr weeks, playing MMOs waiting for the EMU, help local clubs if needed for my other hobbie (anime), would like to learn how a wiki works to help in this community to set one up for guides.

As you can see my plate is very full, but I'm willing to slow some things down to help out where I can.

Take these suggestions or don't up to you guys but I just re-said what others did and re-organized them a bit more and gave reasons behind stuff.

Thanks for reading this.
  #268  
Old 04-01-2007, 01:48 PM
Jay Hova Jay Hova is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3
Though this was a long time ago, I remember being on IRC and people were talking about offtopic stuff, I said one thing that wasn't rude racist or anything of the sort and I got kicked and the reason it said was "you don't belong here..." so that had discouraged me from going back.
  #269  
Old 04-01-2007, 03:43 PM
Litintha Litintha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In WoW now...
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSky View Post
Before one can post an announcement, there needs to be something to show. I believe the devs decided not to post a large amount of small updates, but rather a little amount of larger updates.
In theory, this is probably the best way to go. However, human nature is almost always impatient. People will want updates of just about anything so they don't feel left out in the rain, so to speak.

Now, I am not saying that everytime something changes, there should be a post, such as "We fixed an animation." That is WAY too little. What i am talking about is "We have fixed several animations, along with the addition of another attack for combat testing."

That is the type of update that will keep people coming back, and not feel "left out in the rain."

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSky View Post
Not a bad idea either. Though I don't think it's going to happen.
At least one of my ideas worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSky View Post
How is this helpful?
It is helpful because getting important update information to the player servers is critical in building community involvement and support. While posting weekly, bi-weekly, tri-weekly, monthly, etc. updates here is a great thing, surprisingly enough, not everyone reads the forums. So, having reps from the player servers to come and ask questions will keep the player server communities up-to-date on the happenings with the emu is another good way to keep the community involved and interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSky View Post
Some mods and members do this, others don't. I don't agree on locking the thread immediately. If the newer person has another question to ask, then he we feel bad because his thread was locked. If the problem arises that people start flaming the newer guy/girl after someone already redirected the person to th FAQ, then just give those flamers a warning/ban.
Ok. Perhaps the auto-lock was not such a hot idea.
__________________
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--Chandler Bing: "Friends"
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Master Architect/3 3 2 3 Swordsman/Master Entertainer
Former Intrepid server civilian
I WANT MY ALEX BACK!
  #270  
Old 04-01-2007, 03:48 PM
Raiyden Raiyden is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckles View Post
Another point that irritates me is that its people who never played preCU that makes up a good portion of moderators and devs. Its abit scary
I don't see why thats a particular problem. There here to moderate as opposed to being a fountain of knowledge on pre-cu. Though I guess you have a fair point if posts get locked in relation to pre-cu information.
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