TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09

[GestorterEngel]

My problem isn't with him helping you guys by far, but moreso if he's allowed to come back the concern of him doing this again and it being overlooked, or him secretly helping his friends out to achieve certain things and being overlooked. I just don't think it's acceptable to allow these people back into game and possibly do what they got in trouble for to begin with.

[hozsnoop]

I guess this isn't a rule then
http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33216

[SomeoneImportant]

Originally Posted by hozsnoop

I guess this isn't a rule then
http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33216

So much for zero-tolerance.

[Yhor]

Rubber bands are the future.



Coming soon to an auto dealer near you... The Rubber Band powered automobile.

Then soon to follow.. Rubber Band powered Windows servers.

The possibilities are endless!



As far as the policy goes, I can understand it. However, giving Staff positions to griefers who don't even grief fair... it is very confusing. Not as confusing as NGE, but pretty damned close.

And I could probably come up with 100 nice things to say about the nameless one, but the fact remains .... blah, like you really care.

Whatever, thanks for all the work on Emu, you rock, etc.. etc.. etc.. Hopefully the community can get past it. Congrats on restoring faith in the integrity of the community.

[roodypooh]

Originally Posted by SomeoneImportant

So much for zero-tolerance.

no see this is the exception to the rule. When your buddy buddy with acouple of the top devs and you go cry to them for being banned for legit reasons its ok cause we aren't gonna let our boy stay banned and will let him do whatever he wants without having to worry about getting banned in the future.

The person i feel bad for is Max. He did a great job with how he handled the griefing and exploiting and now caue of aushors buddies he gets off without even a slap on the wrist a nice new promotion and a grief and exploit whoever whenever cause we don't give a damn what anyone else says card.

[Wolverine79]

Originally Posted by roodypooh

no see this is the exception to the rule. When your buddy buddy with acouple of the top devs and you go cry to them for being banned for legit reasons its ok cause we aren't gonna let our boy stay banned and will let him do whatever he wants without having to worry about getting banned in the future.

The person i feel bad for is Max. He did a great job with how he handled the griefing and exploiting and now caue of aushors buddies he gets off without even a slap on the wrist a nice new promotion and a grief and exploit whoever whenever cause we don't give a damn what anyone else says card.

^This!

[Zecke]

at first plz stop calling em hackers they just cheater/scriptkids nothing more. if y need more infos about the definition of a hacker read ..

click me

me too

and me plz

Originally Posted by Kyle

Of course we do.

ok if y have 1 then let the sploiting kids test there so i dont have to deal with them again!

[GestorterEngel]

It does seem like this could be a huge problem if he is let back into the community. I've already had +5 people on vent and more in game talking about quitting if this happens. It seems like it could put a huge damper on the community if this is allowed for Ashor, and other people.

[roodypooh]

Originally Posted by GestorterEngel

It does seem like this could be a huge problem if he is let back into the community. I've already had +5 people on vent and more in game talking about quitting if this happens. It seems like it could put a huge damper on the community if this is allowed for Ashor, and other people.

sadly this is the same talk goin on in our vent and i'm sure when the rest get on and hear about this alot more will say the same thing

[Bostwain]

Originally Posted by roodypooh

LMAO so basically for hacking AND GRIEFING people in the community who were trying to get thier jedi get rewarded with a kiss and given a position on the staff again.

So much for the change you guys were implimenting....faith unrestored

fixed.

This move is almost as good as SOE announcing the NGE.

So does this mean if I was to pioneer a hack/exploit, get what I want... then tell you about it and help you prevent anyone else from doing it, i would be rewarded with a staff position too?

[Anakis]

As we are still in the Development phase, I don't see a zero-tolerance policy on exploiting being very helpful. From a Development perspective, we NEED players to find these exploits and hacks and inform us about them, so that we can code the server to prevent their use in the future live servers, like Thoop said.

We cannot have players being afraid to find and report such things out of fear of being banned/deleted. We all know that once this is live, there will be plenty of those types hacking away and disrupting play on a live server if they can. We need to find and fix these issues before we get there.

We are definitely not giving the green light here for the exploiters to run wild. What we are saying is that you won't be banned, no questions asked, if you perform an exploit on the TC.

How I interpret this policy change is like this. It is okay to perform an exploit on TC as long as:

1. Your actions are not griefing other players.

2. You immediately (and privately) report all details of how you performed the exploit to the appropriate staff and do not tell anyone else about it.

3. You DO NOT continue to perform the exploit on the TC, even after reporting it.

You find it, you report it, you keep quiet about it to your friends and you don't use it again.

Unfortunately, we have had staff members misbehave in the past. If you think that Staff are not watched for these sort of things, you are mistaken.

[Bostwain]

Originally Posted by Anakis

As we are still in the Development phase, I don't see a zero-tolerance policy on exploiting being very helpful. From a Development perspective, we NEED players to find these exploits and hacks and inform us about them, so that we can code the server to prevent their use in the future live servers, like Thoop said.

We cannot have players being afraid to find and report such things out of fear of being banned/deleted. We all know that once this is live, there will be plenty of those types hacking away and disrupting play on a live server if they can. We need to find and fix these issues before we get there.

We are definitely not giving the green light here for the exploiters to run wild. What we are saying is that you won't be banned, no questions asked, if you perform an exploit on the TC.

How I interpret this policy change is like this. It is okay to perform an exploit on TC as long as:

1. Your actions are not griefing other players.

2. You immediately (and privately) report all details of how you performed the exploit to the appropriate staff and do not tell anyone else about it.

3. You DO NOT continue to perform the exploit on the TC, even after reporting it.

You find it, you report it, you keep quiet about it to your friends and you don't use it again.

Unfortunately, we have had staff members misbehave in the past. If you think that Staff are not watched for these sort of things, you are mistaken.

You think ashor immediately reported the explot everytime he hit his speed hack keybind? Also he did not just do it once. both of these making it not okay for what he did by your own words.

[Anakis]

Originally Posted by Bostwain

You think ashor immediately reported the explot everytime he hit his speed hack keybind? Also he did not just do it once. both of these making it not okay for what he did by your own words.

I am not familiar with the details of what any one person or guild has done, so I can't really comment on his particular case.

But like Kyle said, they approached said persons and gave them the option to cooperate for the good of the project or be banned. It reminds me of how some of the most infamous hackers are hired by the companies they hacked, as security consultants.

[Repairit]

Originally Posted by Anakis

I am not familiar with the details of what any one person or guild has done, so I can't really comment on his particular case.

But like Kyle said, they approached said persons and gave them the option to cooperate for the good of the project or be banned. It reminds me of how some of the most infamous hackers are hired by the companies they hacked, as security consultants.

This; Stop being drama-queens.

[five9]

...including ban time, a zero tolerance policy, and then weaseling there way back into the game.... are some still able to play at all?

While many many other players are still chugging out rumors?

They may not have pressed a magic button and unlocked, but speed hacking sure sped the process up a lot faster then those of us who unlocked legit, and those who are still trying.

Originally Posted by Anakis

From a Development perspective, we NEED players to find these exploits and hacks and inform us about them, so that we can code the server to prevent their use in the future live servers, like Thoop said.

We cannot have players being afraid to find and report such things out of fear of being banned/deleted. We all know that once this is live, there will be plenty of those types hacking away and disrupting play on a live server if they can. We need to find and fix these issues before we get there.

We are definitely not giving the green light here for the exploiters to run wild. What we are saying is that you won't be banned, no questions asked, if you perform an exploit on the TC.

How I interpret this policy change is like this. It is okay to perform an exploit on TC as long as:

1. Your actions are not griefing other players.

2. You immediately (and privately) report all details of how you performed the exploit to the appropriate staff and do not tell anyone else about it.

3. You DO NOT continue to perform the exploit on the TC, even after reporting it.

You find it, you report it, you keep quiet about it to your friends and you don't use it again.

Unfortunately, we have had staff members misbehave in the past. If you think that Staff are not watched for these sort of things, you are mistaken.

I fully understand we cant have players afraid to report things out of fear of being banned....

I fully understand this is a touchy topic and there truly cannot be a form of perma banning those who exploit on accident or to test and report.......

But cheating on purpose without reporting it only to "see the light" and turn around and mulipulate a way back in? Thats the cheaters mentality..... the end does not justify the means in those cases.

Its one thing to stumble upon, or test something to see if it can be exploited AND THEN REPORTING IT....

Its another thing to defraud the system with intent.

Purposely digging through the source code with intent, or using 3rd party programs, no matter what the excuse or knowlege gained does not warrant reinstatement...at best let them play when released after thinking over what they have done to alienate themselfs by cheating.


come on does this sound reasonable?

defendent - "excuse me your honor, but, but, this is how I robbed the bank"

judge- " oh great thanks for telling us, this will better the banks security in the future, not only can you return to society, but here keep all the money you stole to"

most games ask the non-cheating community to look for and inform of any cheat programs or exploits and hmmm BAN cheaters...its a well known working way......some even reward those who report 3rd party programs that could be used to exploit a system.

When you let people back for exposing how they cheated so they can regain what they earned because of their greed, you are indeed giving them and others the geen light.



The only thing I'm afraid of is saying stuff and instead of it being took for what it is, in hopes it could shed some light onto things as a devils advocate.......that hardships are seen and I am punished for my words.




where is the Thunderheart of the swgemu?

Where is that someone to hear and stand up for the community reguardless of which side the community and devs take and voice the concerns of the community?


take a poll, you will be surprized of the outcome I am sure

"zero tolerance ???????? "

Im sorry but this has the "good ole boy network" written all over it and is just setting the stage for lost hope in the future.

(now remeber, one has to look outside the box at all angles when approaching a delicate matter such as this, so please dont hold this personaly against me......)

Originally Posted by Kyle

Hence the unequivocal and absolute change to the policy. Clarification so we can remove people that abuse it permanently in accordance to the policies.

I am confussed.... wasnt that the purpose of the zero tolerance in the 1st place?