Discussion

[DarkPhoenix1337]

I myself am also guilty of not participating in the forums as much as I could be. Instead of just reading topics now I will also comment on stuff so I'm not just another member in the list with 2 posts. I'll try to show my support for the EMU a bit better now

[Baylor]

Originally Posted by flas

In the past i have looked up much of the info i have needed. But from time to time even tho i ask a ques. get responses that are really uncalled for. All these hardcore flamers need to be stopped. Then i'm sure u will have people with RL xp in the area's u need advise in like advertising will be happy to help. The way things are run now it kinda feels like the teenagers have control or at the least young adults that have no RL xp other then sitting in front of a computer all day flaming people cause they got picked on in school or something and its the only way they can fight back. Sorry if i offended anyone but this Vid screen bully crap has to stop. Otherwise this is prolly going to fail.

Bingo. I think you hit one of the biggest concerns people share about this board. I'm a member of many MMO related forums/communities, and that is overwhelmingly the reaction posted by others when this project is mentioned. And that's from a wide spectrum of websites from MMO design/conceptual discussions groups to average gamer sites. The end result is a lot of talented people that could lend valuable support are shying away because life's too short to deal with socially inept people that feel they need to berate people for asking a question or voicing an opinion.

[fenderbean]

I think the biggest problem is the everyones is ready for something to play and has already spent massive amounts of time reading and throwing in there 2 cents. May have been on SOEs site like i did for years until EMU came along or one of the hundreds of EMU server sites. I really believe that if the game is finished to just the basic game, that people will play and start to have more indepth discussions and have a better understanding of what they are talking about. I know there are a lot of members who never even played Pre CU that are trying to give ideas about fixing it. I was a org beta tester and played up till NGE hit, I guess I was a power player and was addicted because I usually played for hours everyday. I have input, but honestly I like the game the way it was the 1st day it was release. I like the unbalanced version better (its more realistic that way), because even though CH, TK (examples) was over powered, it was more fun. Even with some proff being better you could still find other temps to beat them if you new how to play. Lets just get something to play, changing it will it from ideas of people will come a lot faster then because people will make servers and change things that they want. The those ideas will circulate around the entire web like EMU has then the Dark Overlord (SOE) will see they have been truely defeated MUHAHA Good work though atleast being here and seeing things go down has kept me hoping.

[Pday]

My main reason for staying off IRC and more of less out of any thread posted by a developer is that last time i had a discussion on irc with a moderator i got banned for disagreeing with him.

I think what is needed is to build a nurturing community where people are not afraid to post in fear of getting flamed or banned, heated discussions will happen and im guilty of having very strong opinions of what should and should not be on a pre cu server.
But as long as the discussion is on point with a minimum of personal insults i think most of us can handle it.

I also think that if people would put more thought into their idea's before posting it, flaming and people telling them to "gfto" etc would be cut down quite a bit. Im currently studying game design and the thing ive noticed is that people tend to post their idea without any though to how it would effect the rest of the game or post ideas that have been discussed before.
Personally im getting really tired of the "nerf this" threads in the future idea's forum when people either dont remember the mechanics around what they want nerfed, or simply seem to want things they didnt want to combat removed.

[cookiec]

Well.. tbh the reason I aint been posting much is I've been quite busy.. but also. For me anyways precu was sooo long ago... I usualy feel quite stupid when I try to post anything about it cause I was NEVER uber at it... I played it off and on due to lack of prepay cards around us and not having much cash at the time...


I remember quite a bit about it.. but I cant realy offer any perfect advice or idea's seing as almost anyone here knows more about the systems of precu then I do... I knew how to use them but I sure as hell dident study them or pay that much attention to them.. I just played the game and loved every min of it.


I've been coming on the servers every once in a while to take a peek, and I've been there for most of the stress tests and tryed to help where I could.. but I personaly do not like pvp... all it does is anoy me in swg.. so the current server does not realy offer me anything to "enjoy" that makes me want to stay on it for hours or hours....

Any time I've gone on to mess around with pvp like 20 ppl gank me within 5 seconds... not exactly fun for me... :P


But, I can say as soon as there is any sort of skill system to exeriment and test with, any sort of pve to mess around/test with.. any type of crafting, entertaining, resource testing etc... I will be there grinding my ass off trying to help when I can


And yah, I'll try to be a bit more active on the forum too.

[Correction]

I remember once not too long ago being banned and the entire forums being threatened to be wiped because there was too much discussion going on. I'm honestly at a loss now as to what you want from us. As far as I know, we're all (or at least, I know I am) pretty much doing exactly what we were told, now: sitting on our hands and waiting patiently.
I check for updates and I participate in the open tests. I honestly thought that's how you wanted us to behave.

I can also promise you that the people you see posting on your forums aren't the only ones waiting for this project to finish. There are several far more active server-specific forums out there that talk 24/7 about the game and your progress.

As for what I'm looking to get out of the emulator: personally I just want to play the game exactly as it was originally. Whatever you need to do to make it work like that or even to simply appear to work like that. I'm also hoping for the ability to reinstate some features that were removed before patch 12, such as player corpses, but I know I'm in a strong minority on this.
Really I absolutely hate third party content in games like this, but I realize that's a server issue and not yours. You're just here to make the software support it, and that's understandable because a lot of servers seem to have big goals.

Seriously, though, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're asking for. You already know what we want. Most of us aren't technically-informed enough to be able to make in-depth suggestions like "I want the software to support dynamic hypermega super NPC AI scripting," etc. Like I said before, we're just waiting patiently and are there to hammer a test server when you need us to.

Oh yeah, and IRC... I hang out in the #test channel occasionally, but to be honest I don't like most of the discussion that takes place in #SWGemu, though. No offense to anyone, I guess the people that do talk in there just aren't my type of people.

[badfish]

I would like to get on IRC more, but I cant at work and in the evenings am usually doing other stuff, and I think there's alot of people int the same situation. I'm really looking forward to getting a full SWG game up and running and hope you guys manage it. I would like to help, but my scripting knowledge is so poor, so I'm of little use

Keep up the good work, we all appreciate it lots!!

[Ouslo]

Well thats the problem isnt it, I got banned on IRC just for talking... Im gonna say it straight here... I think the devs and community need to soften up, some of you (Not all of you) are very patronising and harsh. Now we get threads asking why the community is as it is... Well thats how I see it, just a little patience goes a long way guys.

[porchy]

back in the day when the xbox scene was at its peak, the people that were doing the homebrew stuff had an IRC channel going. this ended up in a similar way to the emu one, with a lot of new people not reading forums/searching past posts and a lot of people getting annoyed. shortly after this, another IRC channel was setup with the prefix "4newbies" and was inhabited by people who had been around for a while and were willing to give advice, this kept the main channel free from stupid/repeat questions and also let the new people ask the questions that wanted without any hassle to devs and stopping the flaming too.

might not work in this case but the scenario is very similar

[dashbarron]

I have to say what everyone else says, that people are scared to post. I too am hesitant at times to post anything, because I don't know if I say, (and this is just an example) that if I thought the server was laggy, I'll get banned because my thoughts were taken as blaming the devs. I think as some of the posts so far have shown, it's no secret that there is a trigger fire to ban people, and yell at them...such as "...community is doing a piss poor job," doesn't install faith of the leaders as being benevolent and helping.

You put up with a lot of questions from people, a lot of the same questions. I don't have to answer them, and I'm not a Dev or a Forum Mod, so why I can answer them, I'm not look to towards the answers by the new and old players alike. I would get frustrated too if people didn't read the FAQ's, but I think banning people on the spot, and doing things as of one time, putting the locked people in a thread or calling them a village idiot for public mockery, really only hurts your chance for a good community. I think in general, if a person is a Forum Mod and gets sick of the questions...then quit. Let someone else be in charge who can handle it, and likes to help people.

In a server to play, I would look for a group of people who are friendly and open, or at least open towards each other because they are likely to make progress as a server/community, and inspire friendlies.

Not to rag on you guys, because any group of people who can do something like SWGEmu is commemorable. But other projects who do similar things, don't seem to have this negative community issue. They get newb questions all the time, but they just say read the FAQ, or the community members are happy to answer the questions, and life goes on. No banning, no flaming, just friendly courtesy.

If you ask why maybe the community doesn't do more then help, well, I've seen a few issues where someone responded to a question, saying something like, "read the FAQ before you get banned," a warning to the other person ( though it could**** be taken negatively), and then both people were banned or flamed. Instills fear, and I don't blame any who is weary of posting.

[KROM]

Thanks for having this discussion.

There is an attitude in this community that makes it very difficult to think creatively and to have "What if..." discussions. If you read the Future Ideas forums, you will see it in nearly every thread that proposes changes.

This attitude has lots of sources. Mostly, this is a fear of change created by the people at SOE. I think it is time that folks realize that noone here is talking about the NGE or CU, they are talking about modding the pre-cu game to make it even better, without changing anything fundamentally.

Another source of this tension comes from the devs here themselves. I have no beef with them and from what I've seen in IRC and here, they are funny, intelligent and dedicated people. However, they like to flame, ban and really be ****s to folks who are out of the loop. On the community boards I float around in, the only complaints about this project I hear is that the devs are too quick to ban and flame.

How can we fix it? Devs, just ignore the idiots unless it gets out of hand. Let the community help the newbs and get them up to speed. Educating new people is the only way to grow the community, so lets take care of them. Now, along with that, we need a community that is willing to put down the blow torches and teach a little.

How about if we just paste a link to the appropriate thread or the FAQ when someone asks a question rather than blow them up until they leave or someone bans them from irc?

In short, noone likes to get whipped for disagreeing or not knowing the answer. Sure, everything you need to know is here on the boards, but we also know human nature is to get info the easy way, by asking. Just direct people to the right place and drop it rather than making a scene every time someone asks.

[PhantomLeader]

Originally Posted by dashbarron

I have to say what everyone else says, that people are scared to post. I too am hesitant at times to post anything, because I don't know if I say, (and this is just an example) that if I thought the server was laggy, I'll get banned because my thoughts were taken as blaming the devs. I think as some of the posts so far have shown, it's no secret that there is a trigger fire to ban people, and yell at them...such as "...community is doing a piss poor job," doesn't install faith of the leaders as being benevolent and helping.

You put up with a lot of questions from people, a lot of the same questions. I don't have to answer them, and I'm not a Dev or a Forum Mod, so why I can answer them, I'm not look to towards the answers by the new and old players alike. I would get frustrated too if people didn't read the FAQ's, but I think banning people on the spot, and doing things as of one time, putting the locked people in a thread or calling them a village idiot for public mockery, really only hurts your chance for a good community. I think in general, if a person is a Forum Mod and gets sick of the questions...then quit. Let someone else be in charge who can handle it, and likes to help people.

In a server to play, I would look for a group of people who are friendly and open, or at least open towards each other because they are likely to make progress as a server/community, and inspire friendlies.

Not to rag on you guys, because any group of people who can do something like SWGEmu is commemorable. But other projects who do similar things, don't seem to have this negative community issue. They get newb questions all the time, but they just say read the FAQ, or the community members are happy to answer the questions, and life goes on. No banning, no flaming, just friendly courtesy.

If you ask why maybe the community doesn't do more then help, well, I've seen a few issues where someone responded to a question, saying something like, "read the FAQ before you get banned," a warning to the other person ( though it could**** be taken negatively), and then both people were banned or flamed. Instills fear, and I don't blame any who is weary of posting.

We have banned nobody on the spot, unless it was for ban evasion.
We have also never put anyone in the "Village Idiot" category.
Mostly that was the old mods, who are long gone.
I would appreciate if we could stop with the "TEH MODS R NAZI's" type discussion. Nobody's going to get banned just for posting a question; that was awile back, and we don't do those kinds of things.
But in return, I would expect everyone to stop flaming noobs, read the FAQ, and try to be as helpful as possible. That is the best thing the community can do to help on the forums at the moment.

[Helker]

Greetings.

I have been lurking this forum for several months now (although i registered only on January). What I learned reading the posts is this: "Don't aks, Take whatever we give you".

I'm glad that the moderators and the developers want to take back the control of the forum, but they need to put a great effort in it. The forum needs to be much more "friendly" if you want a better community because now it is a very hostile environment...

Edit: With "more friendly" I mean the whole community, normal users specifically.

Speaking of the emulator, my personal idea is that the base should be exactly as it was on the original server with all the professions, abilities, object, and so on. Then the sigle shards will modify it as they see fit. The shards should be able to customize stats of objects, abilities, crafting recipes, and possibly add new.

I think that that should be the starting point. Then, when we can access a playable emulator, we would be able to give more feedbacks.

[soups]

Making some "official" posts on the current Core1 emulators out there that the attitude is changing here and inviting them back would help alot.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

You have got to be kidding. In the past we were given the impression that suggestions and questions were not welcome. IF you were not smart enough to figure it out on your own then we don't need you.

I mean that is almost literally what it said. So you should not be surprised that the community on your forums sucks.

If you want to see the EMU community as a whole go to some of the Core1 emulator sites. That is where your community found refuge when they were not welcome here.

Again I am thrilled that you want the community to start moving back in here.

[Van]

Originally Posted by PhantomLeader

We have banned nobody on the spot, unless it was for ban evasion.
We have also never put anyone in the "Village Idiot" category.
Mostly that was the old mods, who are long gone.
I would appreciate if we could stop with the "TEH MODS R NAZI's" type discussion. Nobody's going to get banned just for posting a question; that was awile back, and we don't do those kinds of things.
But in return, I would expect everyone to stop flaming noobs, read the FAQ, and try to be as helpful as possible. That is the best thing the community can do to help on the forums at the moment.

Actually i can honestly say that i have never seen a Mod here threaten anyone that didn't need it. I have never seen a Mod Blatently insult anyone. I can say that i don't believe you guys are forum Nazi's. However other members of the staff have had this attitude. If anything i commend the mods here, and they have certainly acted more distinguished from the last batch. They need more people like you on the team. Now most of the Devs i have seen usually keep their composure (And i know it's tough dealing with the public) However there have been some very direct insulting remarks that were not needed. I don't care if someone is doing it for free and in their spare time, btw i have nothing but repspect for that. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you can't respond to the public in a civil, respectable fashion, then have a Mod do it for you. The worst thing in the world is to see a Dev get into a flame war with a member of the community. While some people find it entertaining, most don't. They find it as time and energy that could be put into other, more positive things.....like working on the emu. Thanks to everyone working hard to make it happen!