Rubber Banding / Speed Hacking - A Special (Unplanned) DevChat - 10/14/09 2am EST

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Lobreeze

sigh...


You get on at me about lying... How were those guys playing without forum accounts?

Fail. I think you've effectively made any points you are trying to make null and void.

I think he did that in the first place and yet somehow I'm still arguing with him.

Originally Posted by Colt-556

OR, maybe they don't post simply cuz they're too lazy to. I was doing lair runs with some guys ingame earlier, neither had forum accounts but both said (and mind you, I hadn't said anything in regards to rubberbanding before hand) "I wish they'd remove rubberbanding" or something to that effect.

EVERY time I'm around other people who are moving about, I hear sooo much *****ing about it. Every time I quest with people, or do anything with people that involves moving from point A to point B, I hear *****ing about the rubberbanding and most of the time, how it should be removed.

You're right though, not everyone wants rubberbanding removed, some deem it necessary. However MOST people do want it removed, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Lab, if PART of the code is broken, and it's bringing everything down, you remove it. I'm sorry if this simple concept is beyond you, but that's generally how programming works. Because that one tiny piece of code can **** up so much. And until it's fixed, it'll just keep ****ing everything up. I mean think of it from a hard-ware standpoint. You have your computer, it runs fine, but an OPTIONAL component keeps it from booting up. Your choices are

A: Leave it in while you repair it, being unable to use your computer

B: Remove it while you repair it, being able to use your computer.

The choice is painfully obvious, isn't it?

And I didn't call him a troll for disagreeing with me, you and him have been arguing with me for hours and I never called you trolls. I called him a troll for what he was doing in that post, trolling. Not because he was disagreeing with me, but because he was being an idiot. "dohoho 50 people! even though only like 3 are on the side of rubberbanding!" That was a very blatant trolling attempt, and I called him out on it.

Again, since when does "I wish they'd remove rubberbanding," mean "I would prefer speedhackers to get away with things over this rubberbanding."

Ok, hypothetical here. Government has a website that has top security information on it. Hackers find a way to steal information. Webmasters apply a prevention method that, without originally realizing it, slows down the speed of the website enormously. Now, here are the options:

A) Let the hackers run free and remove the prevention while working on a fix, because obviously the information will be wiped someday anyway, seeing as it's top secret.

B) Leave the prevention there until they can fix the security method, causing a lot pain for access, but preventing security leaks.

Hmm, I wonder which is better...


And no, his last thing was derisive sarcasm, not trolling. It becomes very tempting to use statements like that if the person you're arguing with doesn't seem to be understanding anything you're saying.

Should I start calling you a troll every time you use a cuss word? Look up the definition ffs.

[Colt-556]

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

I think he did that in the first place and yet somehow I'm still arguing with him.


Again, since when does "I wish they'd remove rubberbanding," mean "I would prefer speedhackers to get away with things over this rubberbanding."

Ok, hypothetical here. Government has a website that has top security information on it. Hackers find a way to steal information. Webmasters apply a prevention method that, without originally realizing it, slows down the speed of the website enormously. Now, here are the options:

A) Let the hackers run free and remove the prevention while working on a fix, because obviously the information will be wiped someday anyway, seeing as it's top secret.

B) Leave the prevention there until they can fix the security method, causing a lot pain for access, but preventing security leaks.

Hmm, I wonder which is better...


And no, his last thing was derisive sarcasm, not trolling. It becomes very tempting to use statements like that if the person you're arguing with doesn't seem to be understanding anything you're saying.

Should I start calling you a troll every time you use a cuss word? Look up the definition ffs.

That example was HORRIBLE, man. I'll fix it for you.

Government has a website that let's you play flash-games, however it's a test-bed and will be completely wiped clean. Hackers hack in and give themselves the highest scores. The government adds an anti-hack but in doing so slows the site down to worse then 56k standards. Now because of this no one can test the new flash games. Their options are:

A: remove the anti-hack software, let the hackers enjoy their meaningless high scores while letting everyone else test the games

B: Leave the anti-hack on, and thus severely limiting the testing that can be done because it takes forever to do anything.

Hmmm, I wonder which is better....

Cuz in the end, that's the point. The server's gonna be wiped, anything the hackers obtain is meaningless, it'll all be taken away. So is it worth keeping them from cheating to get something they wouldn't be able to keep anyways, if it means making testing inefficient and pissing majority of the community off? If you can legitimently answer yes to that.... then wow.

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

Ok, hypothetical here. Government has a website that has top security information on it. Hackers find a way to steal information. Webmasters apply a prevention method that, without originally realizing it, slows down the speed of the website enormously. This information is sensitive and could cause all kinds of harm, but will be useless in a week. Now, here are the options:

A) Let the hackers run free and remove the prevention while working on a fix, because obviously the information will be wiped someday anyway, seeing as it's top secret.

B) Leave the prevention there until they can fix the security method, causing a lot pain for access, but preventing security leaks.

Hmmm, I wonder which is better....

Cuz in the end, that's the point. The server's gonna be wiped and no damage can be done like it already was, right?, anything the hackers obtain is meaningless, it'll all be taken away. So is it worth keeping them from cheating to get something they wouldn't be able to keep anyways, if it means making testing inefficient and pissing majority of the community off? If you can legitimently answer yes to that.... then wow.

That example was HORRIBLE, man. Let me fix it for you.

There, are you happy with my example now?

[Colt-556]

Retarded examples aside, the point remains. Speedhackers getting jedi a couple days sooner then others has no baring on the project as a whole. And as someone has said, letting them go un-stopped will give the devs that much more time to study their hacks and find a truly good way to counter them. The only people who care about the hackers are vain faggots who are all "ZOMG HE GOT JEDI BEFORE ME!" As far as testing goes, the hackers really are of no consequence. And thus keeping an anti-hack ingame to stop them, that hurts EVERYONE. Is retarded, pure and simple.

[Hellflinger]

1st off, I would like to say that by itself, my opinion means nothing. (and I'm pretty sure I will be quoted on this)
2ndly, If their are, as previously claimed, +2000 people visiting the sight a day, and *some* ratio of those that approve rubberBanding measures, to those that do not, let their be a vote. Really, everyone votes once per account\per email\per IP. That could decide the actual opnion of the people. (not that that neccessarily counts for much, but it is more substancial that my opinion)
3rdly as Colt556 quoted earlier, "Can it be tweaked, fixed, and upgraded BEFORE putting it on the server and forgetting about it? Since that's the major thing. If the devs are so adament about keeping it, fine. Remove it, fix it, put it back up. If it still doesn't work, remove it. There is simply NO excuse for putting up a faulty code and leaving it for two weeks while the entire testing process suffers dramatically because of it. There is just no excuse at all for that. "
Ok, I have a GREAT SOLUTION THAT SOLVES ALL YOUR PROBLEMS!
since it can't be tweeked, and now doesn't work, remove movement. yes. "There is simply NO excuse for putting up a faulty code and leaving it for two weeks while the entire testing process suffers dramatically because of it. There is just no excuse at all for that." yes. But what if the community and Dev's want to keep it? "If the devs are so adament about keeping it, fine. Remove it, fix it, put it back up."
no problems!

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

Retarded examples aside,

When the person you're debating with resorts to shrugging aside a point with "retarded examples aside," you know it's a good time to stop.

Originally Posted by Hellflinger

1st off, I would like to say that by itself, my opinion means nothing. (and I'm pretty sure I will be quoted on this)
2ndly, If their are, as previously claimed, +2000 people visiting the sight a day, and *some* ratio of those that approve rubberBanding measures, to those that do not, let their be a vote. Really, everyone votes once per account\per email\per IP. That could decide the actual opnion of the people. (not that that neccessarily counts for much, but it is more substancial that my opinion)
3rdly as Colt556 quoted earlier, "Can it be tweaked, fixed, and upgraded BEFORE putting it on the server and forgetting about it? Since that's the major thing. If the devs are so adament about keeping it, fine. Remove it, fix it, put it back up. If it still doesn't work, remove it. There is simply NO excuse for putting up a faulty code and leaving it for two weeks while the entire testing process suffers dramatically because of it. There is just no excuse at all for that. "
Ok, I have a GREAT SOLUTION THAT SOLVES ALL YOUR PROBLEMS!
since it can't be tweeked, and now doesn't work, remove movement. yes. "There is simply NO excuse for putting up a faulty code and leaving it for two weeks while the entire testing process suffers dramatically because of it. There is just no excuse at all for that." yes. But what if the community and Dev's want to keep it? "If the devs are so adament about keeping it, fine. Remove it, fix it, put it back up."
no problems!

[Colt-556]

Actually, from posts in this thread, there's been several polls made about this topic. And as far as I know almost all of them, if not all of them, voted to remove it, atleast until it was in half-working condition.

P.S. If you wanna believe that, Lab, but us making up stupid examples is just retarded and I wont use that as the sole source of an arguement. If you wanna keep making examples, go ahead.

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by Colt-556

P.S. If you wanna believe that, Lab, but us making up stupid examples is just retarded and I wont use that as the sole source of an arguement. If you wanna keep making examples, go ahead.

Have fun in college!

Or did you decide to not go there because it harmed your fun level?