Discussion

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by LSky

I'm not, I just don't have the time to answer it this very minute. As I posted before, I'll dive into those IRC logs to make you happy. You should quit ignoring the fact that there is something wrong with this community.

When did I ever say there was nothing wrong with this community? I didn't. I asked you to back up what you said about me. Again, take as much time as you need to look for examples. I'm patient.

[LSky]

Originally Posted by Smusatto

When did I ever say there was nothing wrong with this community? I didn't. I asked you to back up what you said about me. Again, take as much time as you need to look for examples. I'm patient.

I was referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. On that, if people are afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums, don't you think there is something wrong?

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by LSky

I was referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. On that, if people are afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums, don't you think there is something wrong?

k... I'll try breaking this down as simple as possible. I'm not referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. I'm referring to you saying I "sure do succeed in making the environment very unfriendly on the forums and on especially on IRC." I'm asking you to give examples(like you said you could) of how I've done that.

[LSky]

Originally Posted by Smusatto

k... I'll try breaking this down as simple as possible. I'm not referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. I'm referring to you saying I "sure do succeed in making the environment very unfriendly on the forums and on especially on IRC." I'm asking you to give examples(like you said you could) of how I've done that.

I looked through a bunch of the logs and I'll admit that you are not to blame for this situation. I suppose things get mixed up if you see a lot of banning taking place on IRC. At least it narrows that problem to one person. It would be cool if that could be fixed so that we can just continue being a normal community.

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by LSky

I looked through a bunch of the logs and I'll admit that you are not to blame for this situation. I suppose things get mixed up if you see a lot of banning taking place on IRC. At least it narrows that problem to one person. It would be cool if that could be fixed so that we can just continue being a normal community.

Thank you. That's all I asked for.

I'm not afraid to admit that for a long time, I didn't even know how to ban people on IRC. I had to google it whenever I wanted to ban someone, which as you could prolly tell, was very rarely.

What exactly is a "normal community?" I hope you don't mean perfect. I think we'll always have problems. If it isn't this, it'll be something else. It's how we deal with them that matters.

Originally Posted by ioiny

Tbh xeno,snow, mugly, tmr, ready, Ketuspringa, rouse, htx, jack, schmunzel, yosh, exca impress me.



information, generall communication > core 3

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

[Jani_Leitquenen]

Originally Posted by Smusatto

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

Not wanna sound like I´m critizising you, Smusatto, but it´s stuff like this that people don´t take kindly to, even when said with the best of intentions. Instead of a remark that may have a rather sarcastic tone (hard to convey on text), something along the lines of: "While I see your point, I disagree with your oppinion" sounds much more professional and calm than "lol are you kidding? Late April Fool´s", simply because that sounds like you´re patronizing the poster for having an oppinion (as misguided as that oppinion may be).

I emphasize this because I think it´s a good example of why people may perceive that unfriendliness coming from the mods. Dealing with the public isn´t easy, I´ve had to do that in the past, and I know it all to well, but sometimes, you gotta bite your tongue and hold back that witty answer, and try to just be as neutral as possible, for the best of the team.

[amuskindu]

My 2 cents on the whole thing...hope I dont get flamed/banned for it.

I think the whole thing stems from all the drama that has taken place here since the initial explosion last summer with the release of the zone video.

First we had the Joker Debacle. The community thought "Could we trust the Devs?"

Second, we had the Core2 problems. Antman's un-willingness to work with people who gave him suggestions made that project go to hell ultimately. I don't know Antman that well, so if he lurks here I hope he doesnt think I'm launching a personal attack on him, however only stating what I saw in the forums.

Third, we had the CU-EMU Debacle. They stole code, displayed it as their own, and the SWGEMU team got upset, rightfully so. This is when everything went closed source, and it seemed like the Devs grew a distrust for the community as a whole based on this.

Then Xeno came back. Things looked up. We were getting updates regularly, packets were being decoded. Core 3 was on it's way it seemed...

Somewhere in this timeframe, the Core1 combat code was released so Ultyma could prove that CUEMU stole code. This stemmed RevZ, which is what most of the EMU Server Admins (Myself included) are using. It became a viable alternative due to the closed nature of the EMU at this point. Things went quiet even more because people, especially ones who have a server affiliation, had something to do while waiting quietly for news on the Core 3...

Ultyma and Xeno got in a fight. I don't know where the hell it stemmed from, I got in IRC late, but IMHO it just seemed to be a bickering match between the two. This lead to Xeno's leaving the project, and things seemed to go dark again. The community at this point (myself included) wondered if the Dev team could ever be a cohesive bunch...

When this happened, ALOT of team members left. Most of the mods, Xeno, and a few others. This just added to the fuel on both sides. The Devs and Mods ruled with more of an Iron Fist, and the community was at this point afraid to voice concerns or even give suggestions.

Then the Core3 stress test came. People are foaming at the mouth over it. However, it's impressive that 400 people can be in one place at one time, but to act like it's the most amazing thing since sliced bread is pre-mature IMHO. Who knows what will happen when systems are put into Core3. Will the lag still be non-existent? Who knows.

All of this past distrust between all parties involved seems to have spawned 3 camps of people...

1) The ones who are obsessively checking the site still, and are the ones praising Core3. However praise != help.
2) The ones who are either apprehensive about posting, or those that are quietly watching from afar, hoping for the day that Core3 will be released. Either way they're quiet.
3) The ones that have given up on the project. They may still lurk, but they're probably the ones looking at ANH or RevZ as the successor to SWGEMU.

So, in closing, Ramsey - it goes both ways. There's been things that occurred on both sides, Devs/Mods And the Community, that caused the other side to either distrust or outright dislike one another. This may all be in the past, but it definitely still leaves a sour taste in both sides mouths. I think the first step would be reconciling with each other before wondering why the Community isn't helping.

I do thank you for starting this thread, to allow people in Camp #2 (myself) to voice their concerns.

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by Jani_Leitquenen

Not wanna sound like I´m critizising you, Smusatto, but it´s stuff like this that people don´t take kindly to, even when said with the best of intentions. Instead of a remark that may have a rather sarcastic tone (hard to convey on text), something along the lines of: "While I see your point, I disagree with your oppinion" sounds much more professional and calm than "lol are you kidding? Late April Fool´s", simply because that sounds like you´re patronizing the poster for having an oppinion (as misguided as that oppinion may be).

I emphasize this because I think it´s a good example of why people may perceive that unfriendliness coming from the mods. Dealing with the public isn´t easy, I´ve had to do that in the past, and I know it all to well, but sometimes, you gotta bite your tongue and hold back that witty answer, and try to just be as neutral as possible, for the best of the team.

Originally Posted by ioiny

You are so f****** unproffesional it's a f****** joke, hope you can see that now.

This is a thread where ramsey ask people what they think is wrong here and want the community too help.
You can't f****** strike em down then can you when they are saying thiere opinon. Listen to it, consider it and swallow your bollox, instead of making your thought the greatest.

f****** hell man.

Wow...you two seriously need to lighten up. Ioiny was clearly complimenting the competition. Am I not allowed to poke fun at him for that? He's saying a forum post impressed him. I'm not allowed to point out how absurd that sounds? If any of you actually followed my posts here over the last 5 to 6 months, you'd see I'm more than respectful to most everyone's opinions. When somebody comes here and starts brown nosing ANH over some forum post, I'm going to find that funny and poke fun at them for it. If that genuinely bothers you, I think you need to calm down and not take everything so seriously.

Hate to break it to you guys, but I'm not always going to come off as "professional." Want to know why? I'm not a professional. I don't get paid to mod these forums. I don't expect to be paid for it either. I do this in my spare time. If I want to be sarcastic when responding to someone ignorant enough to come here and brown nose ANH, I'm going to do it. I highly doubt anyone on the team cares how we respond to people who come here brown nosing ANH. If anything, they'd think I went easy on him.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to be "unfriendly" to Ioiny for his comments. I just thought they were rather absurd and I had to ask if it was a late April Fool's joke. I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if it was. Unfortunately, it sounds like it wasn't.

Originally Posted by Smusatto

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

You are so ******* unproffesional it's a f****** joke, hope you can see that now.

This is a thread where ramsey ask people what they think is wrong here and want the community too help.
You can't ******* strike em down then can you when they are saying thiere opinon. Listen to it, consider it and swallow your bollox, instead of making your thought the greatest.

******* hell man.

[Damean1]

Originally Posted by ioiny

You are so f****** unproffesional it's a f****** joke, hope you can see that now.

This is a thread where ramsey ask people what they think is wrong here and want the community too help.
You can't f****** strike em down then can you when they are saying thiere opinon. Listen to it, consider it and swallow your bollox, instead of making your thought the greatest.

f****** hell man.

This is just sad, now granted I have said the mods, and devs could use a bit more patience, but if everyone talked to me like this I would act like an ass too. I'm not saying you're 100% wrong Ioiny, I'm only pointing out that if you talk to people like this you can't expect respect in return. I will concede that Smusatto's post could have been taken as insulting, but at the same time I also agree with him that a bit of sarcasm is not unexpected if you insult him and his friends by fawning over the competition in what is basically enemy territory. The respect issue can't be a one way ticket, if we want to be treated with respect by those in charge here, we must in turn treat them with the respect we expect to receive.

Call it brown nosing, or sucking up if you choose, and I'm not one who's been here for a long time, but I lurked for a long time before I joined, and I have found Smusatto to be generally respectful intelligent and helpful. Lets not create more problems by hurling insults because we feel insulted ourselves. Constructive criticism is a good thing, but if your post is full of insults and this type of language few will take into account what you may think, and you're only going to receive as much respect as you give.

[LSky]

Originally Posted by Smusatto

What exactly is a "normal community?"

A community where people are not afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums.

[Lumby]

Originally Posted by LSky

A community where people are not afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums.

QFE

I understand the need for the devs to focus on important things, but if you want a normal community to develop you cant silence everyone.