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  #121  
Old 03-30-2007, 12:31 PM
tehBayek tehBayek is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 19
This has been said in here by a few people already, but I think one thing that could help a lot is to have a few more moderators for the forums/IRC. A topic started by a "green name" is a lot more likely to be responded to by the community than anyone else... This topic is a great example of that.

Also, I do think that a PR could work. Give them access to view, but not post in, the Developer's private forum/IRC channel (I'm not ecactly sure how you handle that) and have them release weekly info based on what they read in those forums. Obviously, the PR person wouldn't just copy/paste everything and would use some discretion in his updates. That would take some of the stress off of the Developers in having to update the community and let them focus more on "developing" rather than having to deal with the community.
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  #122  
Old 03-30-2007, 12:32 PM
JediX14 JediX14 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14
Ok..this post prlly wont be read much but ill type anyway...I dont get on these forums much bcuz im on my servers forums....I understand were u guys are coming from i mean why do something for us wen we wont even converse a bit or make conversation...in hindsite we havent been the best community but lets try and change that for you hard Emu workers...I have some suggestions..On my server (true galaxies) they are debating to put the planet tanaab in live. i was wondering if u guys were also gonna try and maybe put it in?....this is purley for the art of discussion not trying to tell you hgow to work just a thought ya know theres a few more ideas but ill save them for other times...thanks for listening to my long boring rant thingy

Last edited by JediX14; 03-30-2007 at 12:35 PM.
  #123  
Old 03-30-2007, 12:34 PM
DavinFelth's Avatar
DavinFelth DavinFelth is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: England, UK
Posts: 152
My personal opinion is that if the "noob threads" (the ones with people asking questions) were just left open instead of lock 'n' ban then most of the community would be happy to answer the question anyway (which they can't do if it's locked) so dev's, mods etc. wouldn't have to spend their time locking the threads and/or answering questions... the SWG community is quite a helpful one when given the chance, that and people will always be willing to show how smart they are
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  #124  
Old 03-30-2007, 12:36 PM
Darkcloud Darkcloud is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsey View Post
We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?
well, i went on irc few times when i was new, i asked 2 simple questions, i just got flame, so i am done with it, and just look at the forum to see what is going on.
  #125  
Old 03-30-2007, 12:48 PM
Wyz Wyz is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7
In addition to my previous post...

Testing team

It might make sense to establish a "closed group" (informed and reliable) of testers, i.e. dedicated members of the community, who are willing to help the devs to test certain things ingame. Most likely these people will rather have to actually work than having fun wielding the glowstick.

If you get enought people together, you would always have a team to rely on. Testing could be more focussed, ordered and managed. Of course, this also means that testing with this team has to be organized.

Involving the Community in Development

I know that this on is a bit tricky in terms of style, quality and reusability of code. Everyone, who has ever developed software in a larger team knows what I'm talking about.

I bet, some members of the community would even like to help you out coding. You could post requests for functions (give a function prototype and post necessary info like struct and object defs), stored procedures, scripts, etc. (even libraries), which fulfill defined tasks.

You wouldn't have to go open source, but still benefit from motivated community members. However, you'd have to define some coding standards first, otherwise this would most likely result in chaos.
  #126  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:00 PM
mykewlname mykewlname is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2
Let people discuss things

Let people freely discuss their opinions and observations. If someone comes onto the general discussion board and posts something like, oh I don't know, say "Not everyone wants to be a Jedi" then just let them keep their post up for more then 30 minutes before one of you deletes it because "you didn't find it useful."

In America we have freedom of speech. On the SWGEMU forums, we have had a
totalitarian society run by seemingly adolescent bigots. That sounds very harsh but that is the reality that a lot of people saw when they came here. Things have changed, and I have noticed it. A lot of people still come here but won't post and most certainly won't donate because they might be afraid of the communist regime's imminent return. I know that I am.

So, solution? Keep up the good work and the good attitudes, and your community will build. But your reputation precedes you now, and it is hard work to get people to trust in something once that trust has been pulverized into dust.
  #127  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:06 PM
SwgEMUtester
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsey View Post
We have 8k members I don’t see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.
I understand this may be interpreted as a flame, and so be it if that’s the case. But since no one else has said it and probably won’t out and that typical fear which seems to linger around of a ban, I will say it. I find it extremely ironic and I bet a large majority does as well, that your help pledge to the community for contribution begins with the above lines.

The fact many members have tried, consistently to do just what you’re talking about, being creating forum topics, and discussing in IRC numerous topics and what not. Only to be shut down by what could basically be summed up as elitist attitudes. The irony? That these very attitudes are backed up by what seems to be the core of the moderation staff within the emu.

Obviously change is needed, and I for one applaud you Ramsey for starting this initiative. For that, you have my respect.

Onto my point though, for change to be made, problems need to be named.

From a IRC perspective (I am a major idler, I idle almost 23 hours, with a minor connection interrupt whilst I change computers from home / work) and I do read the majority of what is said in #swgemu and #test. For what I do not read, I log it. Anyhow, from a pure IRC perspective change can begin with two active @’s in IRC.

Phantomleader – Many idlers think he’s a mere bot, I would have thought just that, except I surprisingly saw him posting him on the SWGEMU forums. Many of his actions in IRC consist of kicks from half ass reading of the IRC channel, alongside repeating the same thing over and over. He hardly contributes in there, it just seems he enjoys being a internet cop.

Ultyma - He seems to be the godsend of the elitist attitudes which thrive mostly in IRC, he never takes action against the rude or the flamers and mostly insults new members, kicks or bans them in a heartbeats nice. You say we need to build a community, you say recruit friends, build up interest Ramsey. How can we do that when they say something which doesn’t agree with Ultyma and they end up with a ban? It not only makes the swgemu project as a whole look bad, but it makes myself look bad to my friends.

My fingers are slightly tired now, but please, the above issues are critical to needing reviewing, we can then move on from there.
  #128  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:07 PM
skyhawk skyhawk is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
If the devs see a nice idea posted on forums, they can put in the main page a simple poll about this matter. Cause maybe someone missed the thread or cba to read 11 pages of flaming/non sense posting. In that way the ppl who replied on the original thread will know that it isnt "buried" in the forums. Even if the devs saw that thread and liked the idea, people will never know about that(maybe they will when server is up).

Just think of it. Several polls per week about a crucial matter.
ex. "You want holo grind or village"
"You liked the frs system as it was?"
"You liked the looting system?"

Evryone will look at it, and its just some clicks away to make his opinion COUNT.

As Ramsey said, some ppl might be stupid, or might be bored to scroll/search forums about a particular matter. There is nothing we can do about them, than make it easier and faster to say their ideas. And I think that smart polls with answers that cover the whole aspect of a matter, can help with that.
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  #129  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:28 PM
KROM KROM is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 97
I'm not one of those guys who thinks he should be involved and know what you folks are up to in development. I figure you are doing this thing on a volunteer basis and I've no right to make demands.

However, I do think I have the right to ask that members of the community are treated with some respect on the forums (where things seem to be going well mostly) and on IRC. I've had zero personal issues with mods on IRC, but I've seen some things that upset me.

1. Multiple people kicked from IRC simply for asking a question. Granted, a newb question that is answered in the faq documents, but just for asking a question. A simple link to the info and all would have been well. Instead, a flame then kick.

2. An entire ISP was banned because of the actions of one person. I'd rather have the potential return of one ******* than see an ISP full of potentially intelligent and diligent testers and community members banned for that *******'s actions.

That sort of disrespect trickles down. People start to figure you can just flame the pants off of people for asking questions or proposing ideas. It happens constantly. We ALL need to respect one another if we want to have a good community. We are ALL after the same thing, right? A fun and stable pre-cu server to enjoy.
  #130  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:29 PM
RadynJ RadynJ is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
I'd love to see stuff on the patio's of the houses, that always bugged me on live. Also, some of us have always been here to help people on IRC, I cant count the number of people I've helped in PM's set up Emu, just ask. I've always found the Emu community to be very friendly as of the last few months and just keep up the good work.

Now Devs, I think you might find what you're hoping for by posting weekly updates (at least!) and perhaps expanding your dev crew, I know there's lots of people that would love to help with Emu.
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  #131  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:30 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsey View Post
We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?
First of all, I cant get onto IRC because the port is closed at my apartment complex. This is probably a common practice, too, because I know a lot of people who cant use it. Also, IRC has a pretty bad reputation of people getting banned for no reason. I cant comment on it personally but I've seen threads and such.

What type of suggestions do you want? Do you want
- What you should work on next?
- New creative content to add?
- Bug Fixes?
What do you want suggestions on?

I think the majority of discussion of the emu goes on in the future ideas forum. That may not be what you mean by suggestions, but I think if you wanted suggestions that would be the place to ask for it.
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  #132  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:36 PM
na85 na85 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 166
I actually stay away from these forums sometimes because there's too much e-drama.

The suggestion forum is nothing but a shooting gallery where people come in and flame other peoples' ideas. It's not productive.

Too many people on here have a bad attitude (this includes both some of the dev/mod team as well as a good portion of the community). It seems like many people here have a chip on their shoulder.

Back to the e-drama, what the **** is this nonsense about code being stolen back when we were open source? Are people retarded? The whole point of open-source projects is that anyone can look at AND USE your code. That's the entire point.

Too often I see power-tripping mods posting in locked threads just to get the last word and prevent anyone from rebutting.

Too often I see people on the forums flame perfectly acceptable posts because they think they're the ****ing boy scouts of the forums.

The average maturity level of this community seems fairly low, which is why I spend less and less time here.
  #133  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:46 PM
Damean1 Damean1 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 47
I personally post next to nothing for a simple reason, half the time people just start spouting insults, and I've seen Ultyma ban people for the most rediculous things. I have no desire to interact with a mod who'll not answer a question and would just as soon ban you for asking, therefore I read, I keep up with the new information and I keep my mouth shut. I am prepared to be banned for saying this, but someone needed to comment on it. No one wants to ask a question and have someone who obviously has more power than his attitude warrants ban them for seemingly no reason at all.

I'm not saying Ultyma isn't great at whatever he does, just that maybe a bit of tolerance is in order if you want the community to expand. People don't like being flamed, don't like being insulted because they're ignorant or not up to date on facts, and it's even less engouraging when you see new members get banned and Senior members act like it was completely acceptable... case in point...
Capt Jones says "Messaging you? Can't recall.. I came in one night after my bro left, to check what's going on in IRC and you said something about "now ur getting banned" or something and some bigger nerd said 'lol'.
Also, whats wrong with talking **** in the forums? It's not very alive as you can see."
And Ultyma replies "I wasn't even talking to you idiot.
I'm replying to Eaglez. This is his thread and you decided to troll on it.
More reason why you are banned from our servers.
And now I'm taking away your posting privileges. Good Day."

I personally don't think it's right, and chose not to post for the most part after two or three of these were the first couple posts I found. I have every intention of keeping up with what's going on, every intention of playing the SWGemu as it progresses, and even more so when it's done, but I will not continue to hold my tongue, when I see people get banned for nothing, and I fully expect to get banned for speaking my mind.
  #134  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:46 PM
blackjack blackjack is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 21
I think the reason why many of my friends don’t bother to sign up is down to a few factors. here are just a few views of my friends and I.. They are not meant to be insulting but constructive points.
  • The history of the project, the drama of past events, has made many of the people I know lose hope in the project. Or they have moved on to other games and are no longer interested.
  • scattered decisions and sudden changes in goals.
  • Such as going from open source to, closed source. On the top of not having a current closed source server files to download, so that people can play what’s currently is made. Many of my mates view the project like a headless chicken.
  • That compared too many other emu such as L2J, there is not any clear milestones, where anyone can track the devs, check out their current development and send in bug reports. I know that you guys say it’s a hobby, but at some stage even a hobby grows to a point where it gets beyond that point due to it expanding over time, it seems that the project can’t make up its, mind if it’s going to be just a hobby project or a professional run project.
  • People are still worried if they sign up and say what they think, in their harts will lead them to be ban sticked.

  • There is not any clear micro projects design to get the community involved, such as helping to build/fill a data base for you guys
  • The last time I went on IRC it was fall of childish talk about, totally senseless things or content that was not for kids and no moderator was doing anything about it.
  • You say you drop hints everywhere about what you doing, or up to but with the amount of senseless reply’s posts from the pubic in sections of the forum, it’s sometimes hard to find what was said by any dev. not saying that you should remove anyone’s posts. But make a section that is solely filled with your input.
  • More features on the board, kind of like soe Friday features, on current events.
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Last edited by blackjack; 03-30-2007 at 01:48 PM.
  #135  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:51 PM
Lumby Lumby is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12
I dont go onto IRC anymore because Ultyma perma-banned me without question while I was trying to help test the server. (He banned me because I couldn't connect when the MOTD said it was UP so I asked in #test if the server was actually down.). After that I just lost all interest in helping out or trying to be part of a community. Whats the point if our own devs dont really care about a community? I will probably be banned for this post anyways.

Last edited by Lumby; 03-30-2007 at 02:50 PM.
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