Discussion

[Sonako]

Don't worry, Mr. Time-travel says that in 2 more years, they will give up on the project and make it open source, and since the egotism will be over, the emu will be out within months.

[Willara]

I admit I lurk on the forums and have never actually posted. This is partially because like a lot of people in this thread have said already-fear of getting flamed as I'm really not much of an argumentive person. I've also never played much on the test center because I'm pretty much skidish about the same thing. Plus I would qualify as a carebear when it comes to pvp and I know it's not actual pvp right now on the test center but I am just strange that way I guess, I just can't do it lol. So when npcs are added I will definitly try to log on and help out more.
Another reason being I know I'd get flamed because it seems the majority of posters here arn't very fond of jedi in general and honestly jedi are what drew me to this game, so most of my ideas/suggestions would apply to them so I guess most of the reason I don't post is because I fall into the minority and would be drowned out by the majority more than likely than actually have my suggestions/comments actually considered.
But I also realize that those topics have been talked to death anyways so for what they are worth here are a couple of other things that I think would be cool additions to the precu and also I don't know anything about coding so if these ideas arn't possible do to coding I apologize.

• Smuggler revamp- I personally never actually played a smuggler but from what I remember from playing precu was that their only real purpose was to slice weapons. The smuggler profession really needs to be able to smuggle and it might be a pretty cool thing to add in a Jabba or rogue or whatever you want to call it faction for those who don't want to participate in the galactic civil war, which could tie into smuggling, but not necessarily make the neutral faction smuggler only.

• Another suggestion would be to add more pve content I know pvp is great and all in the precu but somthing else to do would be nice. Perhaps expanding on the corvette type of missions for rebels/imps or finding ways to incorporate the quests from Rage of the Wookies (and changing the rewards from those quests as I know they ruined things for crafters) I was always a big fan of running Necrosis (even if that was during the cu it was still kinda fun) Or perhaps just additional themeparks in general.

I'll try to think of some other suggestions as I know my ideas above are kind of general and probably have already been suggested before or post comments on some other people's ideas more I'll just try to ignore flammers the best I can.

[malthol]

Originally Posted by Iovid

I have to agree with Anakis and I do understand why people who don't think before they speak get flamed or banned. I have tried not to meddle in the affairs of the developers so I wont slow them down but if there is anything that I can actually help with I am always more than willing and I wish there was more I could do.

I'm in the same boat as Iovid. I did once exchange a pair of messages with Bracketh, asking if I could help on a research project in live which hadn't received any new posts in a couple of months. The response was friendly, but he said "hang out on IRC, that's where things happen." Well, having spent time hanging out on IRC, not much happens there honestly excepting during guided testing. I guess the idea was so the devs could get a sense of who folks are, but most of the conversation in the IRC channel is pointless and not really useful to see how well someone would follow through on assisting the team. And personally, when the choice is spending my time deciphering the grammar on IRC or working on my PhD, I've got to choose the latter.

[cnotiog]

From browsing the forums and reading various posts it seems to me that there is a very unfriendly atmosphere here. This attitude seems to be partly fueled by the developers. If there was a friendly and welcoming atmosphere, I and some other former players I know would be very eager to help out, give ideas, suggestions and feedback. But the way things currently are, many people will not be willing to get more involved with things.

Originally Posted by Smusatto

This ahn?

That's great forum posts impress you. Core3 impresses me.

Tbh xeno,snow, mugly, tmr, ready, Ketuspringa, rouse, htx, jack, schmunzel, yosh, exca impress me.

Originally Posted by Snow

Hi all,

just wanted to say 'thanks' for all the kind words, we're in the process of designing and working out our PR strategy at this time.

Once complete, we should have the 'updates' nailed down which will be of greater benefit to the every swg community.

regards
snow

information, generall communication > core 3

[Smusatto]

Originally Posted by LSky

I looked through a bunch of the logs and I'll admit that you are not to blame for this situation. I suppose things get mixed up if you see a lot of banning taking place on IRC. At least it narrows that problem to one person. It would be cool if that could be fixed so that we can just continue being a normal community.

Thank you. That's all I asked for.

I'm not afraid to admit that for a long time, I didn't even know how to ban people on IRC. I had to google it whenever I wanted to ban someone, which as you could prolly tell, was very rarely.

What exactly is a "normal community?" I hope you don't mean perfect. I think we'll always have problems. If it isn't this, it'll be something else. It's how we deal with them that matters.

Originally Posted by ioiny

Tbh xeno,snow, mugly, tmr, ready, Ketuspringa, rouse, htx, jack, schmunzel, yosh, exca impress me.



information, generall communication > core 3

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

[david665]

You really can't put the blame for the way the community is or isn't being built on the community members, if the originators of the community aren't doing anything themselves to energize or promote it. It's like blaming the caboose for the engine being late.

The devs here should have learned the lessons that SOE has yet to learn, that bad word of mouth travels faster than good. And it's widely known that on earlier incarnations of these forums, the devs and mods took a decidedly draconian way of governance when it came to the forums and IRC.

As has been said, a lot of subjects have been beaten to death. Right now, as far as discssion goes, we seem to be travelling over the same ground.

[Hero164]

I thik its difficult for the community as everything is rumor and speculation. Yes we would like to see new exciting ideas and there are some excellent ones on this site surrounding a myriad of facets of the game. If any one of us was given access to ask any questions it would be:

When will the emu be finished?
What is your development schedule?

Because the problem is right now is I don't know if the emu is a week a month or a year from completion. If it is a week and you are asking for new ideas to work on next then that is one thing. If it is 6 months or more then people would rather the time was spent on the EMU.

It is your community, we are all here for you, if you need help or cash or whatever then we are pretty motivated and I'm sure could come up with something. However information is absolutely the lifeblood of these boards and of IRC and this is the most tightlipped community on development I have ever encountered. In the absence of good official information people will naturally go off topic and you see some of the more purile sides of a community.

I have been on IRC loads, but I've just about had every SWG conversation there is to have on there, from PVP to Jedi, to NGE whatever its been done. People can't keep up intelligent comment for years, the standard drops as even the more committed members get bored. New people then become the only real difference but they ask the same questions a jaded community asked at the start of the project.

Yes there are problems with IRC bans, newbie flaming, off topic conversations and the like. These however are all symptoms of a community desparatley wanting to believe that this will arrive soon.

[Relenap]

Ok being a lurker I may need to vocalize what I am waiting for to be "more active".

I check this site about once a week. I used to check it everyday. Why did that change? Well there's so little to read now that I can get through the new stuff in a couple hours a week rather then the couple hours a day to catch up. I personally thing the project is going well but we can discuss that only so far without newer stuff to talk about. A post on the second or so page of this had it right. The "how's your day bob" thing fits well.

That said, I think that the best way to go about this is to not aim for all of 12.1 honestly. It's a huge undertaking. You need to do jedi, space, dungeons, ect ect and it's gonna take awhile. My suggestion is to just aim for something playable and add in details when you can. Make it sorta neat like mini expansions. You start off with the 32 professions excluding jedi (that's a lot of time in itself) and release that. People will already rejoyce because it would be like SWG at release. There were no jedi, no space, no DWB. We liked the grind to get that first profession. People started to grind out credits and resources then. There wasn't any major complaining (trying to remember back. I started 1.5 months after release but took a break after 5 months). Then people found out how to unlock. In the time people are having fun now you can work on the jedi stuff. when it's released, it will be like a mini expansion and emulate the first person unlocking on the server. Then while people do that you work on space ect ect.

I don't really know if thats even a feasible route but it's an idea. I just think you have very little community involvement because of the lack of things to do. If there was even something to pass the time with you would have a lot of feedback and a larger community. Seeing that there really is none, many including myself are passing time in something else (currently Vanguard because it is very similar to the old EQ but has parts of SWG I miss like housing). If we are doing these then we aren't focusing on this.

Ok enough of a rant. I do have a few ideas that would help. First is already mentioned. The website is a mess. If you know where to look then it's ok but it really could be better. There is something in place for this though.

Secondly we need a big welcoming on the front page. This need to say "Welcome to SWGEmu. Please read the FAQs before you do anything else. This will catch you up to speed and give you most of the information you need to discuss matters in the Forums." and make a sidebar with big buttons that say FAQS Forums ect. those little ones are barley visable .

Next the Bi Monthly Q and A would be incredible. Just one person from each area (they don't even all have to be in the same Q and A) discussing what they are working on. Say for example Ulty can give a general overview the first time and then someone else can discuss what he is working on ect. If we just have one big one then we won't get a ton of info to discuss. This way by the time Ulty's turn comes around he can have a lot of new things to discuss.

After that would have to be a monthly stress test/server event. I like where the whole tuskan thing is going. One of these monthly (with or without new stuff added) would really help as well. Keeps the community as tight knit as possible without something to play day to day. I would even hand these out to the server admins like true galaxies and such. After you release it let those smaller communities grow some as well. Sort of like a "Here's a new toy. Now we'll give out a few and you guys can have fun" sorta thing.

Then the final thing is just being more vocal. Ramsey did a good job starting with this thread. At least pretend to keep an interest in us. You guys are on your way to becoming idols. When this is finished you will be remembered by the 15K+ of us that have been yerning for PreCU in all of it's glory once again.

In closing, push but don't push to hard. Get something out there and polish it later. Heck Vanguard did and it's already got 300k for being Beta 423. We still pay for it because it's something. Take one decent note from those at SoE, people still play something broke. Give us old SWG broke over not giving us old SWG bug free. Did that make any sence? I'll take what you have now if I can do at least some progression over waiting more to do anything.

I hope this post is what you were looking for Ramsey. I tend to ramble and not make a lot of sence at times but if you put the pieces together then you might find something you can use.

[Jani_Leitquenen]

Originally Posted by Smusatto

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

Not wanna sound like I´m critizising you, Smusatto, but it´s stuff like this that people don´t take kindly to, even when said with the best of intentions. Instead of a remark that may have a rather sarcastic tone (hard to convey on text), something along the lines of: "While I see your point, I disagree with your oppinion" sounds much more professional and calm than "lol are you kidding? Late April Fool´s", simply because that sounds like you´re patronizing the poster for having an oppinion (as misguided as that oppinion may be).

I emphasize this because I think it´s a good example of why people may perceive that unfriendliness coming from the mods. Dealing with the public isn´t easy, I´ve had to do that in the past, and I know it all to well, but sometimes, you gotta bite your tongue and hold back that witty answer, and try to just be as neutral as possible, for the best of the team.

[AshVinau]

Just a thought but as i used Google to get the link to your site i noticed that in the comments about your site there was a reference to the OP's thread. Imho this type of rant isn't going to help get people interested SWGEMU if their first glimpse of this forum is one of blame. Im not pointing any fingers as we are all guilty of it at some point. My only concern is that this is a publically viewed site and swgemu isnt in the position to be able to take this sort of anti-publicity.

Lookin out for you guys and I'm overwhelmed at the time, effort and dedication to making a pre CU game.

Thank You

[Mikekul10]

So what about this pppppp they sure seem to have their prioities straight. wow thats funny, you guys sensored out swg **** anh because you must fear them...sad...mabye if you produced some quality work...lol

[amuskindu]

My 2 cents on the whole thing...hope I dont get flamed/banned for it.

I think the whole thing stems from all the drama that has taken place here since the initial explosion last summer with the release of the zone video.

First we had the Joker Debacle. The community thought "Could we trust the Devs?"

Second, we had the Core2 problems. Antman's un-willingness to work with people who gave him suggestions made that project go to hell ultimately. I don't know Antman that well, so if he lurks here I hope he doesnt think I'm launching a personal attack on him, however only stating what I saw in the forums.

Third, we had the CU-EMU Debacle. They stole code, displayed it as their own, and the SWGEMU team got upset, rightfully so. This is when everything went closed source, and it seemed like the Devs grew a distrust for the community as a whole based on this.

Then Xeno came back. Things looked up. We were getting updates regularly, packets were being decoded. Core 3 was on it's way it seemed...

Somewhere in this timeframe, the Core1 combat code was released so Ultyma could prove that CUEMU stole code. This stemmed RevZ, which is what most of the EMU Server Admins (Myself included) are using. It became a viable alternative due to the closed nature of the EMU at this point. Things went quiet even more because people, especially ones who have a server affiliation, had something to do while waiting quietly for news on the Core 3...

Ultyma and Xeno got in a fight. I don't know where the hell it stemmed from, I got in IRC late, but IMHO it just seemed to be a bickering match between the two. This lead to Xeno's leaving the project, and things seemed to go dark again. The community at this point (myself included) wondered if the Dev team could ever be a cohesive bunch...

When this happened, ALOT of team members left. Most of the mods, Xeno, and a few others. This just added to the fuel on both sides. The Devs and Mods ruled with more of an Iron Fist, and the community was at this point afraid to voice concerns or even give suggestions.

Then the Core3 stress test came. People are foaming at the mouth over it. However, it's impressive that 400 people can be in one place at one time, but to act like it's the most amazing thing since sliced bread is pre-mature IMHO. Who knows what will happen when systems are put into Core3. Will the lag still be non-existent? Who knows.

All of this past distrust between all parties involved seems to have spawned 3 camps of people...

1) The ones who are obsessively checking the site still, and are the ones praising Core3. However praise != help.
2) The ones who are either apprehensive about posting, or those that are quietly watching from afar, hoping for the day that Core3 will be released. Either way they're quiet.
3) The ones that have given up on the project. They may still lurk, but they're probably the ones looking at ANH or RevZ as the successor to SWGEMU.

So, in closing, Ramsey - it goes both ways. There's been things that occurred on both sides, Devs/Mods And the Community, that caused the other side to either distrust or outright dislike one another. This may all be in the past, but it definitely still leaves a sour taste in both sides mouths. I think the first step would be reconciling with each other before wondering why the Community isn't helping.

I do thank you for starting this thread, to allow people in Camp #2 (myself) to voice their concerns.

Originally Posted by Smusatto

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

You are so ******* unproffesional it's a f****** joke, hope you can see that now.

This is a thread where ramsey ask people what they think is wrong here and want the community too help.
You can't ******* strike em down then can you when they are saying thiere opinon. Listen to it, consider it and swallow your bollox, instead of making your thought the greatest.

******* hell man.

[Flashback]

I must agree with Amus on that issue. Many of us have either suffered attacks from the SWGemu team in the past, or have seen fellow members suffer them. This was enough for some of us to remain quiet about our own opinions and statements to safeguard us from banning, etc.

I am unsure if you remember me Ramsey, but I have followed the swgemu team since it was still affiliated with the Dark force team. I have been by the team´s side for over an year, and at a moment I was actually give them change by Solen and Aeledor (can´t remember the spelling) to join as a mod on the swgemu team.

But before I pronounced myself, something happened in the IRC channel back in the day where the swgemumods still used your server. I remember well enough antman complaining about us using your server since we were not a true part of the emu dev team. Since I was a member (and still am) of the mod team, I stood up for it, and guess what, the next day I was banned from the swgemu forum. I used to go by the name of ARRAKESH.

Ever since, I registered under this alias and have only been looking at the forums from time to time with no real interest or willingness to help out, and before antman joined the team, if you still have the threads on DB, you may see that I was a major contributor to the forums.

I believe you when you say you want help from the community once again, for I have always kept you in high standards, however, I am still a little doubtful about the team´s willingness to fully accept our comments, for some of them may be critics about the way things are, and we may end up being banned once more. However, I will give you guys a vote of confidence hoping for the best.

/Salute