TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by jermat

lol yall are just out for blood on a test server on live hows it going to be? hunting people for good ol jailhouse beatdowns?

Says the storm member who claims Ashur and all the exploiters/speedhackers/griefers should have never been banned in the first place. Your opinion has not merit in this thread, or for that matter this forum, any longer.

Hacking, condoning it (as Kyle is doing), and pulling OBVIOUS favoritism completely undermines the project in it's entirety REGARDLESS if it's test center or not. Get your head out of your ass and think intelligently next time.

[learningdisease]

You guys are still arguing about this?

Look, Ashur said himself he WILL NOT be on the exploitation discovery team, which will be STAFF MONITORED, not a PART OF STAFF. They are essentially community members volunteering more of their time to one aspect they know about, which the Devs have requested help on.

Those of you upset about the "over-turning" of the new policy, please let me clarify the situation for you:

1. Exploitation and 3rd party "hacking" tools were becoming far too prevalent and was disrupting testing and playing. In response, the Zero-Tolerance policy was drafted and enacted swiftly.
2. Upon further deliberation with more STAFF members, the policy has been MODIFIED. It now allows for testing of exploits and 3rd Party vulnerabilities, as long as its reported, otherwise ZERO TOLERANCE for those activities.
3. STAFF is going to monitor and keep a close eye on anyone (and their friends) who has reported an exploit or 3rd party vulnerability, we aren't throwing this to the wolves.

Please understand that we are still in a testing phase, and that we need to develop stronger methods of exploit and 3rd party vulnerability protections, we are going to use every method at our disposal to do so.

If it REALLY wrankles you so much that there are people purposely finding exploits on our Test Center, please wait until SC comes out, and you wont have to worry about it, you'll be able to play with all of the protections and assurances against disruptive occurances that a commercial MMO provides.

To those of you upset that Ashur helped STAFF members out by explaining all of the issues his group of friends discovered, and that STAFF was appreciative for it (he could have simply told them off and spammed treacherous links, crash 3rd party gathering utilities, and act like an immature jerk), I'm sorry that you hold such low opinions of people and distrust the Team that has been working on this to such an extent.

PLEASE NOTE! THE SKY IS NOT FALLING, no matter how many people say it is. SWGEmu is resilient, its been proven over our 5+ year existence, we've had issues FAR more troubling than a few players abusing exploits.

I think a lot of you are blowing this out of proportion. Lets give this a few days, trust in the team that has put so much work into getting this game back. Enjoy yourselves, its not the end of the world, its a videogame.

[Lazerbrick]

Originally Posted by learningdisease

You guys are still arguing about this?

Look, Ashur said himself he WILL NOT be on the exploitation discovery team, which will be STAFF MONITORED, not a PART OF STAFF. They are essentially community members volunteering more of their time to one aspect they know about, which the Devs have requested help on.

Those of you upset about the "over-turning" of the new policy, please let me clarify the situation for you:

1. Exploitation and 3rd party "hacking" tools were becoming far too prevalent and was disrupting testing and playing. In response, the Zero-Tolerance policy was drafted and enacted swiftly.
2. Upon further deliberation with more STAFF members, the policy has been MODIFIED. It now allows for testing of exploits and 3rd Party vulnerabilities, as long as its reported, otherwise ZERO TOLERANCE for those activities.
3. STAFF is going to monitor and keep a close eye on anyone (and their friends) who has reported an exploit or 3rd party vulnerability, we aren't throwing this to the wolves.

Please understand that we are still in a testing phase, and that we need to develop stronger methods of exploit and 3rd party vulnerability protections, we are going to use every method at our disposal to do so.

If it REALLY wrankles you so much that there are people purposely finding exploits on our Test Center, please wait until SC comes out, and you wont have to worry about it, you'll be able to play with all of the protections and assurances against disruptive occurances that a commercial MMO provides.

To those of you upset that Ashur helped STAFF members out by explaining all of the issues his group of friends discovered, and that STAFF was appreciative for it (he could have simply told them off and spammed treacherous links, crash 3rd party gathering utilities, and act like an immature jerk), I'm sorry that you hold such low opinions of people and distrust the Team that has been working on this to such an extent.

PLEASE NOTE! THE SKY IS NOT FALLING, no matter how many people say it is. SWGEmu is resilient, its been proven over our 5+ year existence, we've had issues FAR more troubling than a few players abusing exploits.

I think a lot of you are blowing this out of proportion. Lets give this a few days, trust in the team that has put so much work into getting this game back. Enjoy yourselves, its not the end of the world, its a videogame.

how can you continue to preach the party line of "Trust the team" when the team is just as divided apparently as the community.

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by learningdisease

You guys are still arguing about this?

Look, Ashur said himself he WILL NOT be on the exploitation discovery team, which will be STAFF MONITORED, not a PART OF STAFF. They are essentially community members volunteering more of their time to one aspect they know about, which the Devs have requested help on.

Those of you upset about the "over-turning" of the new policy, please let me clarify the situation for you:

1. Exploitation and 3rd party "hacking" tools were becoming far too prevalent and was disrupting testing and playing. In response, the Zero-Tolerance policy was drafted and enacted swiftly.
2. Upon further deliberation with more STAFF members, the policy has been MODIFIED. It now allows for testing of exploits and 3rd Party vulnerabilities, as long as its reported, otherwise ZERO TOLERANCE for those activities.
3. STAFF is going to monitor and keep a close eye on anyone (and their friends) who has reported an exploit or 3rd party vulnerability, we aren't throwing this to the wolves.

Please understand that we are still in a testing phase, and that we need to develop stronger methods of exploit and 3rd party vulnerability protections, we are going to use every method at our disposal to do so.

If it REALLY wrankles you so much that there are people purposely finding exploits on our Test Center, please wait until SC comes out, and you wont have to worry about it, you'll be able to play with all of the protections and assurances against disruptive occurances that a commercial MMO provides.

To those of you upset that Ashur helped STAFF members out by explaining all of the issues his group of friends discovered, and that STAFF was appreciative for it (he could have simply told them off and spammed treacherous links, crash 3rd party gathering utilities, and act like an immature jerk), I'm sorry that you hold such low opinions of people and distrust the Team that has been working on this to such an extent.

PLEASE NOTE! THE SKY IS NOT FALLING, no matter how many people say it is. SWGEmu is resilient, its been proven over our 5+ year existence, we've had issues FAR more troubling than a few players abusing exploits.

I think a lot of you are blowing this out of proportion. Lets give this a few days, trust in the team that has put so much work into getting this game back. Enjoy yourselves, its not the end of the world, its a videogame.

Let's get a couple things straight.

The meeting to overturn and modify the policy was done with LESS staff, not more. This was said point blank on IRC by staff.

Second, Ashur only started reporting bugs & exploits (still keeping some to himself and his guild) AFTER he was caught the first time.

How exactly should we NOT be upset about this, considering Kyle made it out to be a staff held position?

[learningdisease]

Originally Posted by DraGa

Let's get a couple things straight.

The meeting to overturn and modify the policy was done with LESS staff, not more. This was said point blank on IRC by staff.

Second, Ashur only started reporting bugs & exploits (still keeping some to himself and his guild) AFTER he was caught the first time.

How exactly should we NOT be upset about this, considering Kyle made it out to be a staff held position?

A.) The decision was not OVERTURNED, it was MODIFIED. ZERO TOLERANCE is still in effect for those who do not report their findings.

B.) The term "LESS" is subjective, as it was in essence, a continuation of a discussion that began with the original Policy, there was just input from MORE STAFF members than the when the original policy was announced, thus the policy was modified due to this new input and perspective.

C.) Would you rather he never reported the bugs/exploits at all? Old addage: "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer."

D.) I apologize to the community on behalf of STAFF for ANY miscommunication or unclear explanation of the modified policy. I hope you can agree to understand the actuality of the situation, which is that the exploit finding volunteers ARE NOT ON STAFF.

[geforce]

i love everyone

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by learningdisease

A.) The decision was not OVERTURNED, it was MODIFIED. ZERO TOLERANCE is still in effect for those who do not report their findings.

B.) The term "LESS" is subjective, as it was in essence, a continuation of a discussion that began with the original Policy, there was just input from MORE STAFF members than the when the original policy was announced, thus the policy was modified due to this new input and perspective.

C.) Would you rather he never reported the bugs/exploits at all? Old addage: "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer."

D.) I apologize to the community on behalf of STAFF for ANY miscommunication or unclear explanation of the modified policy. I hope you can agree to understand the actuality of the situation, which is that the exploit finding volunteers ARE NOT ON STAFF.

It was overturned in the sense that Ashur was unbanned because he's "useful" to their ends, and not because he broke the rules. That in itself is the very definition of overturned sir.

A "continued" discussion can ONLY be "continued" with ALL the staff present, at the time of the original decision, and with the additional staff for the second "continuation". The term LESS is highly objective and NOT subjective in this case.

I'll agree to a point for this entire situation, to the extent that I'm not privy to the ACTUAL discussions. Merely 2nd hand accounts from staff themselves.

I'll agree that without complete first hand knowledge I cannot provide a definitive answer towards the entire situation upon whom is to blame or whom to hate at this point.

I'll also agree that the staff as a whole, of whom I was "informed" yet again were opposed to the modification, are not responsible, and merely a select few whom are causing this community hemorrhaging.

Finally, I cannot accept an apology from someone who did nothing wrong. We don't want you to scapegoat yourself for errors on your higher ups part.

[learningdisease]

Originally Posted by DraGa

It was overturned in the sense that Ashur was unbanned because he's "useful" to their ends, and not because he broke the rules. That in itself is the very definition of overturned sir.

A "continued" discussion can ONLY be "continued" with ALL the staff present, at the time of the original decision, and with the additional staff for the second "continuation". The term LESS is highly objective and NOT subjective in this case.

...

Red Text: I'm not going to argue with you about that exact instance. I will say that the policy was modified. The only thing overturned was the decision to perma-ban Ashur, we still don't know exactly what will occur from this point, as the whole issue is still unfolding. Like I said earlier, one player is not reason enough to shout that this whole project is a farce and that the world is coming to an end. I understand your frustration on the fact that he has a bad reputation and that STAFF is dealing with a player with so much baggage, but it is what it is, as with so many other things.

Green Text: I'm guessing you aren't aware of the way that IRC and Forum discussions for STAFF take place. I can explain it for you in this way: We aren't here 24/7, and when decisions are made, those who are present will make them, as more people who are on STAFF wake up or get out of school or drop of their kids etc., they will impart their opinions on the matters if they wish to do so. After hearing from MORE people than only those who made the policy (Some of whom were without doubt present for the original decision), changes were made. Its the nature of this project, not everyone is around when they should be, so it takes a couple days for all input to be processed. It just so happens that decisions were posted DURING the discussion, rather than after getting input from everyone and then posting.

I am hoping that I can quell fears that the team is disrupting and that there is all out mayhem and havoc going on, because that is not the case. Its simply a heated debate, and hot heads speak quickly (and sometimes without 100% forethought).

SWGEmu has been around for a long time, we've dealt with countless issues more serious than this one, and the amount of outcry seems to be the result of having a test center that is "playable".

Bear with us... We listen to the community, I'm sure you all realize the efforts we put into interfacing and allowing for the free discourse of ideas, but we have to make choices that are best for the completion of a SOLID, STABLE, ACCURATE Pre-CU Experience.

[Cilraaz]

Originally Posted by learningdisease

You guys are still arguing about this?

Look, Ashur said himself he WILL NOT be on the exploitation discovery team,

So instead, he's just unbanned for no reason?

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by Cilraaz

So instead, he's just unbanned for no reason?

There's a reason, it's called he has developer friends.

[Mahonra]

Ashor...

Have you (or are you) being given a new force sensitive character? I think the community needs to know. To my knowledge you haven't addressed this yet.

[jermat]

Originally Posted by Mahonra

Ashor...

Have you (or are you) being given a new force sensitive character? I think the community needs to know. To my knowledge you haven't addressed this yet.

why would it matter its really none of anyone buisness

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by Mahonra

Ashor...

Have you (or are you) being given a new force sensitive character? I think the community needs to know. To my knowledge you haven't addressed this yet.

I want an answer to this question.

[geforce]

Originally Posted by DraGa

I want an answer to this question.

word is his account was erased as in crushed and smeared like a barn roach and ashurs....... gave him a new geared and full templated jedi. thats just the word.

[Kayliaah]

Originally Posted by geforce

word is his account was erased as in crushed and smeared like a venimouse roach and ashurs....... gave him a new geared and full templated jedi. thats just the word.

Zomg really?

He should be put in jail tbh.