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  #301  
Old 10-19-2009, 01:55 PM
lord_dale lord_dale is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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This whole thing kinda reminds me of something..



..yesno?
  #302  
Old 10-19-2009, 01:56 PM
Uli Uli is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_dale View Post
This whole thing kinda reminds me of something..



..yesno?
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  #303  
Old 10-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Yyss'a Yyss'a is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 86
Yes, Lord_Dale.
  #304  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:00 PM
Cilraaz Cilraaz is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 45
Except Frankenstein's monster had done nothing wrong.
  #305  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:03 PM
Kayliaah Kayliaah is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mos Paris
Posts: 2,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli View Post
what was said was right but thing is since you now seen as a "hacker-hugger" instead of being a hackerphob then they wont listen to you
No way you did it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli View Post


OMFG, stalker.
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  #306  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:05 PM
Timbab Timbab is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 4,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by learningdisease View Post
SWGEmu has been around for a long time, we've dealt with countless issues more serious than this one, and the amount of outcry seems to be the result of having a test center that is "playable".
Not like the 'countless issues' didn't effect the staff. We're at this point now for things that started AGES ago. Thing certain members, including me, spoke against which are almost identical to what the majority of the community sees now. It's funny, while the same **** has been going on for ages, we, the few who stood up against it were portrayed as the little kids who are just raging, when in reality it was just the truth as it is clearly shown today.

Look what happened, 2 highly important Dev's aren't staff anymore over this bull****, one who made an awful lot of progress on the Emu as a whole, 'which wasn't enough' for some higher ups.

But whatever, I'm not going deeper into it, at least now where this has hit rock bottom in the wide public eye, actually work on the issues that started at least one year ago, not cover it up like the other times.

It's not the little 'silly' raging group anymore, it's your actual community you're dealing with now. This is far from blowing this out of proportion.
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  #307  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:06 PM
Wolverine79 Wolverine79 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerfang View Post
respect for the delete IF it was not recreated.
Hes friends with the corrupted devs/staff man. So he deleted. So what if they ban his account. Hes going to get a new one and prolly given a jedi by his buddies just like he did with his name change

If not hes jsut going to hack, exploit and cont. to grief his way back to it. We were lied to by staff and this just another way saying they don't care and for the staff that got left out of the new changes and all. Well its been leaked by the known person from known guild that you guys are just lowly scrubs and the real staff is behind it all.

Last edited by Wolverine79; 10-19-2009 at 02:08 PM.
  #308  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:13 PM
Kayliaah Kayliaah is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mos Paris
Posts: 2,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolverine79 View Post
Hes friends with the corrupted devs/staff man. So he deleted. So what if they ban his account. Hes going to get a new one and prolly given a jedi by his buddies just like he did with his name change


I still don't understand why you people are interested in his TC Jedi.

Sorry but what a bunch of retarded kids, I would triple slap you in the face if I could.
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  #309  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:18 PM
learningdisease's Avatar
learningdisease learningdisease is offline
Game Master and Event Coordinator
Community Team
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbab View Post
Not like the 'countless issues' didn't effect the staff. We're at this point now for things that started AGES ago. Thing certain members, including me, spoke against which are almost identical to what the majority of the community sees now. It's funny, while the same **** has been going on for ages, we, the few who stood up against it were portrayed as the little kids who are just raging, when in reality it was just the truth as it is clearly shown today.

Look what happened, 2 highly important Dev's aren't staff anymore over this bull****, one who made an awful lot of progress on the Emu as a whole, 'which wasn't enough' for some higher ups.

But whatever, I'm not going deeper into it, at least now where this has hit rock bottom in the wide public eye, actually work on the issues that started at least one year ago, not cover it up like the other times.

It's not the little 'silly' raging group anymore, it's your actual community you're dealing with now. This is far from blowing this out of proportion.
Okay, Timbab, I'll play along.

Taking into account for all of the dramafests and "issues", and accepting that the decisions made up to this point, all combined and played out over the years have come to this moment, this whole argument of a modification of a rule for exploiters:
What does the community think?
What does the community feel is the appropriate course of action?
Is there a way we can appease both the community and the STAFF?

So far:

What does the community think?
50/50 or 40/60 split over "good idea to involve exploiters in testing" vs "exploiters should never be dealt with"

What does the community feel is the appropriate course of action?
This is where we have not had as much input from the community. Enough flaming, +1ing, and counterpointing. What would you have done were you in STAFF's position?

Is there a way we can appease both the community and STAFF?

I certainly think so.
Maybe the community wants Ashur perma-banned, but allow for the exploitation team.
Maybe the community will be okay with whatever STAFF decides.
All I know is, we need more constructive input from you guys if we are going to have this discussion.

If you feel in anyway that you would be persecuted for your opinions, feel free to PM me or ANY OTHER Blue Name here at the SWGEmu Forums, although I certainly hope that sort of atmosphere would not come to our community.

Please work with us in a constructive and mature manner, I'm sure we will all be able to come to a reasonable compromise.

Thanks.
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  #310  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:21 PM
cRush cRush is offline
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I'm not sure I understand the argument about how Ashor exploiting to Jedi first has interfered with testing ability. Why exactly does that hinder anyone's testing? Does it directly affect testing in some way that I am unaware?

---

Griefing is a different matter entirely, and is completely subject to the authority of the Community Service department. If they feel a player is unjustly griefing another player, then I hope they usher that player out of here as soon as possible.

Permanently? Not on the first offense. Continually? Get them out of here - no one deserves to be badgered by some immature mongrel regardless of who they are.

---

I understand that there is an argument that Ashor was griefing players at the Mellichae spawn point at some point. I do believe this has been handled via ban by our superb and wise Community Service department. I would, however, ask that you all consider this one question:

Why was Ashur even out there? Are we really to assume he was waiting all day for the moment that another hopeful Jedi might unlock just so that he could ruin their chance? Would you wait out there all day on your Jedi toon in the hopes that someone might unlock and you could stop them?

Perhaps he was helping another player and became confused about which Mellichae belonged to which group? I'm not looking to say that Ashor is innocent, but instead show that all perspectives need to be explored before jumping to definitive conjectures about a player's intent of grief. Of course, the remarks exchanged, documented in screen shots, weren't exactly exemplary behavior by either party.

I'm not saying he was justified, just saying that sometimes, nor am I condoning this as the actual events which transpired. I'm just saying that the truth isn't always as apparent as it seems, and asking that everyone keep that in mind before deciding that the answer is obvious.

--

I would ask that the community remember that this is still a developmental stage of the project. I don't think anyone would disagree that it is better for everyone if we uncover and address exploits and hacks now, rather than when SunCrusher launches and the persistent world is in jeopardy of being adversely affected by such malign intentions - think economy irreversibly damaged, accounts hacked and stolen, etc.

If players are going to hide exploits from us, they are going to do it anyways, regardless of what policies we make. If we find a player doing the aforementioned activity, they will be warned only once. They will be monitored, documented, and subsequently banned if the behavior continues.

For those players that do choose to clue us in to their findings, I think it is fair that we credit them for being honest. Again, however, if we find that they continue to abuse said exploit, they will not be exempt from the preceding scenario.

Simply put, only so many exploits and hacks will be uncovered on private servers. Exploits don't arise until the need for them arises first. This motivates players to search for ways to circumvent the intended gameplay.

We aren't condoning that exploiters and hackers get off scott-free. We are saying that if they work with us to fix the issue, rather than exploit it for their own personal gain, then there is a future for them here. It is their choice.

Please be assured though, the Community Team has all authority to ban players at their discretion should they abuse exploits. Furthermore, it is our goal, as developers, to equip our hard-working staff with the tools they need to make accurate and correct assessments, minimizing false positives.

Please have faith in us to continue to do what's best for the direction of this project. All of your concerns are concerns of ours as well, and we do the best we can to address them while still being fair to all parties. We must not forget, however, that we are still in development. Soon we will be past development and into strictly community and playability - SunCrusher. Zero-Tolerance will stand in that environment - you can count on that.

Please know that we are always grateful for everyone's continuing support, and we look forward to providing you with the best software we can possibly provide!

Last edited by cRush; 10-19-2009 at 02:24 PM.
  #311  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:26 PM
Bostwain Bostwain is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Neutral
Posts: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekaika View Post
Did anyone see "Catch Me If You Can?"
Read post #8 lol
  #312  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:26 PM
Timbab Timbab is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 4,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by learningdisease View Post
Okay, Timbab, I'll play along.

Taking into account for all of the dramafests and "issues", and accepting that the decisions made up to this point, all combined and played out over the years have come to this moment, this whole argument of a modification of a rule for exploiters:
What does the community think?
What does the community feel is the appropriate course of action?
Is there a way we can appease both the community and the STAFF?

So far:

What does the community think?
50/50 or 40/60 split over "good idea to involve exploiters in testing" vs "exploiters should never be dealt with"

What does the community feel is the appropriate course of action?
This is where we have not had as much input from the community. Enough flaming, +1ing, and counterpointing. What would you have done were you in STAFF's position?

Is there a way we can appease both the community and STAFF?

I certainly think so.
Maybe the community wants Ashur perma-banned, but allow for the exploitation team.
Maybe the community will be okay with whatever STAFF decides.
All I know is, we need more constructive input from you guys if we are going to have this discussion.

If you feel in anyway that you would be persecuted for your opinions, feel free to PM me or ANY OTHER Blue Name here at the SWGEmu Forums, although I certainly hope that sort of atmosphere would not come to our community.

Please work with us in a constructive and mature manner, I'm sure we will all be able to come to a reasonable compromise.

Thanks.
You do realize that the actual speedhacking isn't the problem with the majority right? The majority feel the staff can't be trusted since first they were banned, then they were made 'staff'.

From all the conflicts we and others had with the staff over the year it basically comes down to this:

A small group of staff acts on their believes, with out acting out of interest for the staff, but rather on what they think is best. This thread clearly showed proof in this instance on how the staff was hugely split on the subject and pushed out non the less.

The credibility just lacks in a lot of cases, when it comes to things such as this. A lot of things were happening in the background away from the public over the years which we clearly attacked on numerous times which caused 'drama'. This is probably the FIRST time that the staff tripped over their own mistake in public and almost killed off their credibility with it.

I don't think you personally should be discussing this, Learning, since it's a lot deeper than a few simple issues or what you've heard from our 'drama' over the years. I personally don't care anymore, but having this thread and basically the SAME issue that we've addressed a couple of times in public now, I just had to speak a few words.

You can counter me all you want, this thread proved a lot to the people and I should be the least of your worries, I'd rather look into the future and look how to prevent stuff like this happening again. But then again, I'm not staff, none of my business right?
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The Truth, is limitless in its range
if you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse it could Hurt
  #313  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:28 PM
Ekowraith Ekowraith is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Disappearing in the Anchorhead basement
Posts: 814
You can't have it both ways. You can't simultaneously claim that Ashur would be an asset and that he's not being rewarded by being on the exploitation team. It's one or the other.

I find the decision to unpermaban Ashur in the face of a zero-tolerance policy unfathomable. Regardless of his practical value, the overturn undermines the effectiveness of the policy, damages the staff's credibility, and fundamentally weakens the integrity of the community. It was an inconsiderate decision.

It appears that he's been banned once again. Hopefully it's permanent this time.
  #314  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:30 PM
Cilraaz Cilraaz is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 45
I think everyone realizes that the project is in the development phase.
I don't think you'll find many who don't believe we should uncover exploits/hacks/etc so they can be patched.
I don't think you'll find many who argue that putting together an exploit-specific QA team is a bad thing.

I think the main point of contention in this 300+ post thread is that people who were repeatedly found to be exploiting without reporting it (reporting in retrospect to save your ass doesn't count) have been unbanned and initially given some form of recognition as being part of the development process. Yes, we're all a part of the development process from a testing perspective, but this is above and beyond that. That is what is ruffling a lot of people's feathers. Some are focusing on the Jedi part a bit much, since it's been pointed out that there will be (probably) numerous wipes from now until live. The problem is that they were brought back at all.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times....hey, who's getting blown around here?
  #315  
Old 10-19-2009, 02:31 PM
Wolverine79 Wolverine79 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermat View Post
wolverine the main point is so that noone will do this on live
How so. This guy and other that would be on this team would know what to expect on live and know how to get around the protection. What better way to know these protection and use to there advantage later.

This guy and other got caught and now given full access to the protection that will be used. They will be back up to their old tricks because exploiting/hacking is fun to them and using to grief other players.

Then at that time nothing will be done about them just like now because they got staff backing them with a get out free ban card!
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