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  #871  
Old 04-28-2010, 03:55 PM
Lamune Lamune is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mos Eisley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safak View Post
in other words, 'i can't win this argument that i started, so ill post a pointless cartoon as a backhanded dig at her to divert the fact of getting owned'
Actually it was more of a "Oh geezuz, I'm arguing with helmet-wearing doorknob licker. I think I'm going to stop now."

There isn't much point into getting into a logical debate with someone insisting "... there is no other possible explanation."

I could have also gone with a picture of Morbo from Futurama yelling STATISTICS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! to your grossly inaccurate 1-in-6 example with the dice roll, but I try to limit myself to 1 image macro per internet argument.
  #872  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:01 PM
Kraschman Kraschman is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahed View Post
No?! Why else did they ask the community for help way back and stated they were completely stuck without people helping?
Let's see, because they wanted it done faster and they used a little hyperbole and exaggeration when asking.

C'mon don't be obtuse. This concept isn't that hard to grasp. Do you really expect people to put serious effort into helping if you say "we'd like some help. We can do this alone, but it'll take a really really long time."

Sure SOME people will help, but not nearly as much or as many as if you create a crisis. Otherwise inertia will keep people from putting in real effort to help.
  #873  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:01 PM
Kainzo Kainzo is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamune View Post
Actually it was more of a "Oh geezuz, I'm arguing with helmet-wearing doorknob licker. I think I'm going to stop now."

There isn't much point into getting into a logical debate with someone insisting "... there is no other possible explanation."

I could have also gone with a picture of Morbo from Futurama yelling STATISTICS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! to your grossly inaccurate 1-in-6 example with the dice roll, but I try to limit myself to 1 image macro per internet argument.
On a side note, I love Morbo.

Morbo is pleased but sticky.
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  #874  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:11 PM
Mujahed Mujahed is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tikrit
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraschman View Post
Let's see, because they wanted it done faster and they used a little hyperbole and exaggeration when asking.

C'mon don't be obtuse. This concept isn't that hard to grasp. Do you really expect people to put serious effort into helping if you say "we'd like some help. We can do this alone, but it'll take a really really long time."

Sure SOME people will help, but not nearly as much or as many as if you create a crisis. Otherwise inertia will keep people from putting in real effort to help.
Creating a crisis would make them look incompetent.

Stating that they'd have it done real soon if everyone helped would get people psyched enough to learn programming.
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  #875  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:21 PM
Baigs Baigs is offline
 
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  #876  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:31 PM
Kraschman Kraschman is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahed View Post
Creating a crisis would make them look incompetent.

Stating that they'd have it done real soon if everyone helped would get people psyched enough to learn programming.
Just like all the players here now are learning programming? (Oh wait, that's not happening?) You're also assuming that everybody would have known the crisis is false, which is not that likely.

You're obviously not going to get this concept. Trying to explain further is just flogging Baigs' dead horse.
  #877  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:37 PM
Crazyduck Crazyduck is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Take a guess....
Posts: 48
I really don't understand why people are leaving because of the wipe... I voted yes but this TC will get wiped anyway.
  #878  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:44 PM
Mujahed Mujahed is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tikrit
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraschman View Post
Just like all the players here now are learning programming? (Oh wait, that's not happening?) You're also assuming that everybody would have known the crisis is false, which is not that likely.

You're obviously not going to get this concept. Trying to explain further is just flogging Baigs' dead horse.
Most of the original team is long gone.
Do you understand that the current dev team has had intensive recruitment from the community? I need say no more.
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  #879  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:47 PM
jonna jonna is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 89
i lol at all that lol at lollers. wtf! this is a private game bulid. take what you get folks! we all know that in the end it is gonna be good. i would like a wipe but ill take it as it is for now.
  #880  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:49 PM
Ekowraith Ekowraith is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Disappearing in the Anchorhead basement
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crush
There was a lot more behind the decision - it's not that the whining minority won out. We started thinking about the real effects the blue frogs would have, and realized offering them as a condition of the poll was a mistake.
- Players would have exploited the frogs to become Jedi faster, and it would have taken away some interdependence since everyone could become self sufficient.
- Changing the frogs to guard against these exploits meant changing the terms of condition.
- A third poll was discussed and decided against.
- We felt that if we just left TC the way it was, then it would be the best thing for both parties.
What you're doing is listing "no" points in defense of the decision to ignore the community. Your points have a place: in the dialog and debate that led up to the poll and it's outcome. Despite these hypothetical consequences, an overwhelming majority of voters still favored a wipe.

It would be like if, following the 2008 elections, the Bush administration announced,
"Hey guys. We appreciate all the debate and discussion surrounding this whole election, but ultimately, we decided that a Democrat administration wouldn't be able to properly run the country. After much internal discussion, we have decided to retain control of the executive branch.
-A liberal executive would be likely to drive up the national deficit with immense federal spending.
-A democrat executive would increase the tax burden.
-A democrat president would reduce incentives to work through socializing programs."

Dispute the analogy all you want, but the ultimate point is this: such points were already a part of the debate that led up to the poll/election's turnouts. If these criticisms of a server wipe are true, let the people who voted for it sit with the consequences. Simply restating the minority position and ignoring the majority is senseless.
  #881  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:51 PM
Kraschman Kraschman is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahed View Post
Most of the original team is long gone.
Do you understand that the current dev team has had intensive recruitment from the community? I need say no more.
That still doesn't change the fact that most players are NOT programmers and are not involved in coding. Your point is still moot.
  #882  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:55 PM
Kraschman Kraschman is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekowraith View Post
What you're doing is listing "no" points in defense of the decision to ignore the community. Your points have a place: in the dialog and debate that led up to the poll and it's outcome. Despite these hypothetical consequences, an overwhelming majority of voters still favored a wipe.

It would be like if, following the 2008 elections, the Bush administration announced,
"Hey guys. We appreciate all the debate and discussion surrounding this whole election, but ultimately, we decided that a Democrat administration wouldn't be able to properly run the country. After much internal discussion, we have decided to retain control of the executive branch.
-A liberal executive would be likely to drive up the national deficit with immense federal spending.
-A democrat executive would increase the tax burden.
-A democrat president would reduce incentives to work through socializing programs."

Dispute the analogy all you want, but the ultimate point is this: such points were already a part of the debate that led up to the poll/election's turnouts. If these criticisms of a server wipe are true, let the people who voted for it sit with the consequences. Simply restating the minority position and ignoring the majority is senseless.
Except this isn't a democracy and never was. The devs ultimately are the final word decision-wise when it comes to TC. Want to make the decisions yourself, you need your own server. Your analogy = epic fail.
  #883  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:05 PM
Ekowraith Ekowraith is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Disappearing in the Anchorhead basement
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraschman View Post
Except this isn't a democracy and never was. The devs ultimately are the final word decision-wise when it comes to TC. Want to make the decisions yourself, you need your own server. Your analogy = epic fail.
Exactly. Your arguing that this has been undemocratic is quite possibly the best evidence that this process has been unfair.

But suppose a developer banned you because he disagreed with you politically. Would you then choose not to complain, due to the free nature of the SWGEmu? After all, you're entitled to nothing. But at the end of the day, we understand that unfair treatment is unfair treatment.

EDIT: Mistakenly wrote that Kraschman voted against the wipe.
  #884  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:07 PM
cable-odinson cable-odinson is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 79
why on earth do a serious poll and act like SOE with the results.
come-on .................................................. ....
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  #885  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:15 PM
Baigs Baigs is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekowraith View Post
Exactly. Your arguing that this has been undemocratic is quite possibly the best evidence that this process has been unfair.
You realize this is how you are acting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpSfThUv_pc
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