TC Bulletin and Policy Change 10/18/09

[GestorterEngel]

So why is he banned this time?

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by GestorterEngel

Can we get a big fact i told you so?! Ashur is banned AGAIN? COME ON...

I wish I could, but I've done that too much already (apparently).

[Uli]

Originally Posted by GestorterEngel

So why is he banned this time?

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=320

[Timbab]

Aww, okay, my bad, you said it once but raged endlessly just at Ashur after.

Besides, main point still stands, just let it rest.

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by Timbab

Aww, okay, my bad, you said it once but raged endlessly just at Ashur after.

Besides, main point still stands, just let it rest.

I still love you

[Ruledo]

Please forgive us Ashur.

[Tropicana]

First of all, I really am appalled by the childness, rule-breaking, rule-changing, brown-nosing, favoritism, and a great deal of other immature activity that has been going on recently.

I have not read all twenty-two pages of this thread, and honestly, even if I had, I probably wouldn't have gotten any information that would have benefited me for relevance of my post.

I remember the good ole' days when this project actually had morals, and dedication. Alas, those days are gone. From word of mouth alone, I can tell you what the issues are with this project, and from skimming over the OP of this thread, I can tell you that these issues are either not being addressed, or simply being ignored.

The policy of "No toleration of hacking, period" is not something that the Devs, as leaders, are allowed to bend, break, or manipulate. If you do not have the ability, or man-power to deal with the policies that you have implemented, then you need to think twice before you make them.

If someone is caught using third party programs, or actually "hacking" the game in an attempt to abuse the server that everyone else is playing on, it is an automatic perma-ban, no exceptions, whatsoever. That is the policy, and no one, not even Kyle has the right to change it.

There are only a few possible reasons why the Devs would change their policies on hacking: 1) they realize that they can't stop people from doing it. 2) they don't want to be bothered with having to correct the issue. 3) the persons implicated in hacking have befriended the Devs, and therefore a personal issue occurs.

Any of those possibilities are not acceptable, not for Mods, and definitely not for Devs. You don't start a "new and improved" system in place to seek out, and identify hackers, by taking known hackers, and exploiters under your wing, and giving them more power, and authority than they already had.

You are not the Government, and you are not a Las Vegas casino, you don't need to inlist the help of criminals to help solve your problems. You ban the problem makers, and you wash your hands of the situation.

If you insist on not following through with your own policies, and bending the rules for whatever reason, then this project is going to sink like a rock. Trust will go out the window in half a day, and people will become, and remain skeptics towards anything that happens from now on.

It is uncomparably more important to fix server issues, and make head-way on this project then it will ever be to deal with hackers, find them, ban them, rinse, and repeat. I am not even going to get into the idiocracy of unbanning hackers, for ANY reason, I am pretty sure everyone on this server will concur on the currect course of action in that situation. I am also certain that if you are unbanning hackers, or exploiters, you will be second guessed for as long as you remain the leaders of this project.

I cannot stress enough, how important it is to remain focused on the project. If you cannot do that, then all is lost, and you might as well let amateurs run this project. Some people would argue that is already the case, and while their opinions might not matter to the Devs, it should factor in to how you decide to run your project.

Drama will run a muck on any project of this magnitude, amongst members, but when the Devs are in the middle of it, that is when major set-backs occur. While I would never try to tell Devs how to do their job, I am obligated to try and help them with ideas on how to resolve issues swifty, and permanently.

I wish you all well, and I hope to see the outcome of these issues resolved so that this project can get on track.

[DraGa]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

First of all, I really am appalled by the childness, rule-breaking, rule-changing, brown-nosing, favoritism, and a great deal of other immature activity that has been going on recently.

I have not read all twenty-two pages of this thread, and honestly, even if I had, I probably wouldn't have gotten any information that would have benefited me for relevance of my post.

I remember the good ole' days when this project actually had morals, and dedication. Alas, those days are gone. From word of mouth alone, I can tell you what the issues are with this project, and from skimming over the OP of this thread, I can tell you that these issues are either not being addressed, or simply being ignored.

The policy of "No toleration of hacking, period" is not something that the Devs, as leaders, are allowed to bend, break, or manipulate. If you do not have the ability, or man-power to deal with the policies that you have implemented, then you need to think twice before you make them.

If someone is caught using third party programs, or actually "hacking" the game in an attempt to abuse the server that everyone else is playing on, it is an automatic perma-ban, no exceptions, whatsoever. That is the policy, and no one, not even Kyle has the right to change it.

There are only a few possible reasons why the Devs would change their policies on hacking: 1) they realize that they can't stop people from doing it. 2) they don't want to be bothered with having to correct the issue. 3) the persons implicated in hacking have befriended the Devs, and therefore a personal issue occurs.

Any of those possibilities are not acceptable, not for Mods, and definitely not for Devs. You don't start a "new and improved" system in place to seek out, and identify hackers, by taking known hackers, and exploiters under your wing, and giving them more power, and authority than they already had.

You are not the Government, and you are not a Las Vegas casino, you don't need to inlist the help of criminals to help solve your problems. You ban the problem makers, and you wash your hands of the situation.

If you insist on not following through with your own policies, and bending the rules for whatever reason, then this project is going to sink like a rock. Trust will go out the window in half a day, and people will become, and remain skeptics towards anything that happens from now on.

It is uncomparably more important to fix server issues, and make head-way on this project then it will ever be to deal with hackers, find them, ban them, rinse, and repeat. I am not even going to get into the idiocracy of unbanning hackers, for ANY reason, I am pretty sure everyone on this server will concur on the currect course of action in that situation. I am also certain that if you are unbanning hackers, or exploiters, you will be second guessed for as long as you remain the leaders of this project.

I cannot stress enough, how important it is to remain focused on the project. If you cannot do that, then all is lost, and you might as well let amateurs run this project. Some people would argue that is already the case, and while their opinions might not matter to the Devs, it should factor in to how you decide to run your project.

Drama will run a muck on any project of this magnitude, amongst members, but when the Devs are in the middle of it, that is when major set-backs occur. While I would never try to tell Devs how to do their job, I am obligated to try and help them with ideas on how to resolve issues swifty, and permanently.

I wish you all well, and I hope to see the outcome of these issues resolved so that this project can get on track.

/thread

[Zecke]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

First of all, I really am appalled by the childness, rule-breaking, rule-changing, brown-nosing, favoritism, and a great deal of other immature activity that has been going on recently.

I have not read all twenty-two pages of this thread, and honestly, even if I had, I probably wouldn't have gotten any information that would have benefited me for relevance of my post.

I remember the good ole' days when this project actually had morals, and dedication. Alas, those days are gone. From word of mouth alone, I can tell you what the issues are with this project, and from skimming over the OP of this thread, I can tell you that these issues are either not being addressed, or simply being ignored.

The policy of "No toleration of hacking, period" is not something that the Devs, as leaders, are allowed to bend, break, or manipulate. If you do not have the ability, or man-power to deal with the policies that you have implemented, then you need to think twice before you make them.

If someone is caught using third party programs, or actually "hacking" the game in an attempt to abuse the server that everyone else is playing on, it is an automatic perma-ban, no exceptions, whatsoever. That is the policy, and no one, not even Kyle has the right to change it.

There are only a few possible reasons why the Devs would change their policies on hacking: 1) they realize that they can't stop people from doing it. 2) they don't want to be bothered with having to correct the issue. 3) the persons implicated in hacking have befriended the Devs, and therefore a personal issue occurs.

Any of those possibilities are not acceptable, not for Mods, and definitely not for Devs. You don't start a "new and improved" system in place to seek out, and identify hackers, by taking known hackers, and exploiters under your wing, and giving them more power, and authority than they already had.

You are not the Government, and you are not a Las Vegas casino, you don't need to inlist the help of criminals to help solve your problems. You ban the problem makers, and you wash your hands of the situation.

If you insist on not following through with your own policies, and bending the rules for whatever reason, then this project is going to sink like a rock. Trust will go out the window in half a day, and people will become, and remain skeptics towards anything that happens from now on.

It is uncomparably more important to fix server issues, and make head-way on this project then it will ever be to deal with hackers, find them, ban them, rinse, and repeat. I am not even going to get into the idiocracy of unbanning hackers, for ANY reason, I am pretty sure everyone on this server will concur on the currect course of action in that situation. I am also certain that if you are unbanning hackers, or exploiters, you will be second guessed for as long as you remain the leaders of this project.

I cannot stress enough, how important it is to remain focused on the project. If you cannot do that, then all is lost, and you might as well let amateurs run this project. Some people would argue that is already the case, and while their opinions might not matter to the Devs, it should factor in to how you decide to run your project.

Drama will run a muck on any project of this magnitude, amongst members, but when the Devs are in the middle of it, that is when major set-backs occur. While I would never try to tell Devs how to do their job, I am obligated to try and help them with ideas on how to resolve issues swifty, and permanently.

I wish you all well, and I hope to see the outcome of these issues resolved so that this project can get on track.

/sticky plz

[fixit6]

A few of the players in question here have been around a long long time, a couple have in fact helped track down a considerable amount of bugs over the years. Now if they are willing to report exploits, script haxs, etc that they has uncovered (or created) to the proper people, then what can I say? Eradicating such problems should be taken quite seriously for a smooth transition -> live. If not now, then when? I don't think any of us would like to go into 1.0 with huge exploits and other cheats present. Certainly, however, this exploit team SHOULD not be given GM/Dev/Mod type powers; that is a given.

Anyrate, I am not supporting or condoning either side. Most this is all hersay, rumors, and posts filled with emotion created from several players and guilds...

I think the devs are level headed enough to deal with this properly. If said players use these cheats to grief and or get a leg up over players without reporting them + repeat it continuiously, punishment should be handed out...for sure.

[Bostwain]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

First of all, I really am appalled by the childness, rule-breaking, rule-changing, brown-nosing, favoritism, and a great deal of other immature activity that has been going on recently.

I have not read all twenty-two pages of this thread, and honestly, even if I had, I probably wouldn't have gotten any information that would have benefited me for relevance of my post.

I remember the good ole' days when this project actually had morals, and dedication. Alas, those days are gone. From word of mouth alone, I can tell you what the issues are with this project, and from skimming over the OP of this thread, I can tell you that these issues are either not being addressed, or simply being ignored.

The policy of "No toleration of hacking, period" is not something that the Devs, as leaders, are allowed to bend, break, or manipulate. If you do not have the ability, or man-power to deal with the policies that you have implemented, then you need to think twice before you make them.

If someone is caught using third party programs, or actually "hacking" the game in an attempt to abuse the server that everyone else is playing on, it is an automatic perma-ban, no exceptions, whatsoever. That is the policy, and no one, not even Kyle has the right to change it.

There are only a few possible reasons why the Devs would change their policies on hacking: 1) they realize that they can't stop people from doing it. 2) they don't want to be bothered with having to correct the issue. 3) the persons implicated in hacking have befriended the Devs, and therefore a personal issue occurs.

Any of those possibilities are not acceptable, not for Mods, and definitely not for Devs. You don't start a "new and improved" system in place to seek out, and identify hackers, by taking known hackers, and exploiters under your wing, and giving them more power, and authority than they already had.

You are not the Government, and you are not a Las Vegas casino, you don't need to inlist the help of criminals to help solve your problems. You ban the problem makers, and you wash your hands of the situation.

If you insist on not following through with your own policies, and bending the rules for whatever reason, then this project is going to sink like a rock. Trust will go out the window in half a day, and people will become, and remain skeptics towards anything that happens from now on.

It is uncomparably more important to fix server issues, and make head-way on this project then it will ever be to deal with hackers, find them, ban them, rinse, and repeat. I am not even going to get into the idiocracy of unbanning hackers, for ANY reason, I am pretty sure everyone on this server will concur on the currect course of action in that situation. I am also certain that if you are unbanning hackers, or exploiters, you will be second guessed for as long as you remain the leaders of this project.

I cannot stress enough, how important it is to remain focused on the project. If you cannot do that, then all is lost, and you might as well let amateurs run this project. Some people would argue that is already the case, and while their opinions might not matter to the Devs, it should factor in to how you decide to run your project.

Drama will run a muck on any project of this magnitude, amongst members, but when the Devs are in the middle of it, that is when major set-backs occur. While I would never try to tell Devs how to do their job, I am obligated to try and help them with ideas on how to resolve issues swifty, and permanently.

I wish you all well, and I hope to see the outcome of these issues resolved so that this project can get on track.

QFR (quoted for readability)

EDIT: Now after reading this post I agree. This change and wavering in the staff team has had me semi make up my mind to play on GR instead where I don't know the devs so I know there will be no favoratism that I know of :P

[Kayliaah]

I was waiting on Tropicana to post.

[Yhor]

I think Tropicana hit the nail on the head. Great read.

[Emokho]

I guess the only question I can ask is prety simple here after reading the alst few pages. Is the rule of the EMU staff a republic or a democracy? The difference is prety simple:

A repbuplic is a system where the rules are the rules and must be followed by ALL persons in the community includeing those incharge. There may be a policy inplace to amend the rules but they usualy involve a lengthy process and an overwhelming majority of the governing and the governed to approve.

A democracy is where there are rules, but they are totaly flexable and changeable according to the whims of the governing body and people.

So which is it? are there rules that everyone must follow no matter who they are or are there rules that can be so easily bent and changed with whim?

Once again I believe if you cheat at a game you cannot win, and there is no winning in SWG, then you are the worst form of already contemptable group. If you are finding and reporting cheats to the staff for helping the server then you aren't cheating unless you continue to do so after you have descovered it, confirmed it, and reported it. If an individual is found acting in an inapropriate manner, I think they should be warned the first time, and if caught again they should be given no discourse except to apeal after the implimentation of thier punishment. Such an apeal ofcourse would find difficulty in overturning said punishment as proof of a first warning would be maintained aswell as any proof of the second offence.

Gods, I think I shoulda been a lawyer.

Edit: In adition since the main goal of the staff should be the completion of the project perhapse it would be wise to "hire" a few more CSRs to look into issues from the players who are farthest removed from them or when the need arises for an issue to be looked into perhapse "deputise" a player with no attachemnts to any party of the insident to fully look into the matter and report to the staff all of their finding and their suggested course of action as per the posted rules. Or mabey I'm crazy. I think it might be alot easier for the staff to say "we have an issue with so an so, you random player who knows none of the involved persons look into it" or "You CSR person who's job it is only to look into such matters check it out" than to take the time out of their development of the end product which we have all been waiting for since before many people here had to shave.

[Timbab]

Nice post Tropicana.