Discussion

[vlherg]

-bi monthly Q/A Sessions.
-Weekly updates.

Smusatto suggested having "themed" stress test events

These are some of the best ideas I've seen in this discussion. I have a number of friends wanting to play the emulator. The most common question they ask me is "when will it be out". More information can only increase interest in the project.

I know you don't want to give an ETA on the emulator, doubtless if you say for example, that you think it may be released in September then if September rolls up and it's not out then some idiots will post "It's September and it's not here, you guys suck". But with the amount of time you've been working on this project and knowing what is done and what isn't you must have some idea of how far off it will be until a release approximating the original game will be made. Include this in the updates. Perhaps not a date but something like "there's maybe six months work". If you have a good month and things go well adjust it to five months. If things go slowly one month say so and keep the estimate to six months or even increase it if need be. Give people the info so they can manage their expectations.

Keep the information easily visible on the forums. Most of the likely emulator players will just be normal folks who can install a game and play it. They might be easily tempted to look at a site but will balk at the thought of IRC.

The themed tests will definitely help get testers. One of my friends recently asked me if she could play yet and should see re-install the game. I told her not to because all that can be done right now is limited PVP. She hates PVP. When there's some PVE to try she might want to help with testing or when there's tests to be done with entertaining or image design. When there's PVE and crafting to test I'll be able to try that because unlike PVP I have an interest and knowledge of it.

The more people see being made to work the more the interest will be and then the discussion of what we want to see in the game will really take off.

[Erec]

lol when we getting new weapons (1h lightsabers,swords,rifles exc.) and some clothes ...and groups!?

btw who ever had the bright idea to make this game.....i wuv u:D

[Blud Lust]

"SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu."

SWGEmu is doing a piss poor job of community relations.

Anyone that asks a question, or tries to get details so they can give input or ideas, get flamed or banned from mods or devs.

Sorry, but after seeing other people getting their asses kicked by the team. I am reluctant to give any opinion, idea or ask any question. I would prefer to at least give an educated idea, and to do that question might need to be answered. Not people getting banned for asking questions.

Now if someone is just a complete tool, and doesn't look in the forums at all, and asks a question that was asked in the post below him. By all means, he derserves to get hit with the "Corky bat"

Trust me I appreciate everything that the team is doing, and how far you've gotten. But if you want to emphasize community, the first thing that has to be done is to relax your itchy trigger fingers from the ban button.

"If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)"

I've seen people getting flamed/banned for just asking what is going on with Crafting. When that question (last I looked a couple months ago) wasn't even asnwered in the forums.

Please don't ban me for this, it did my best to remain constructive. But all the blame can't be put on the community.

--Blud Lust

P.S. And for the noobs... please search the forums before asking questions. Odds are it has been asked before.

[TwistedShot]

Good job.

... k. My one month quota is filled. :D

<3

[Sap]

I've been watching this project for quite some time now and like most of the people who played Pre-Cu back in the day I never/rarely ever post on the foums. Many reasons have been mentioned as to why most of the community never posts but lets face it, the biggest reason no one posts here is because thats the way it was when Pre-Cu was live. Most people played the game and enjoyed it for what it was, not spending time on the forums because they had fun playing the game. Since Pre-Cu and even the CU no longer exists most of us are just checking in on the progress thats made because we can't do anything to help. Nor do we want to slow the progress down by creating pointless threads. We just want it back the way it was. No big changes just maybe some fixes (though everyones definition of what was broken will differ).

I applaud your efforts to make the SWGEMU site a more friendly and mature environment. That effort will go a long way and many of us won't forget who took the first step to create change. It will be difficult to get a lot of discussion here like there are on some of the server sites because people on the server sites people have something to work on. They're fostering a community where they will be accepted and build friendships that will be enjoyed when a working version of the game comes out that their server will host. They are also determining what their server will implement/leave out based on their communities feedback through polls and so on. That is a big reason why other forums are more active at the moment.

Suggestions:

- Show us a somewhat descriptive plan of attack you are using for creating the EMU.

Example:

1) Stability (600 members in the MOP)
2) Basic Combat (brief description)
3) Clustering
4) NPCs/Mobs
a) static
b) spawns for missions
c) random
3) Crafting
4) Resources and Resource Spawns

You get the idea. Something like this was done a while back and got a lot of praise. You all have a plan and many who visit this site frequently know whats coming but many who are new or don't frequent the site as much are clueless. This may also help answer questions frequently asked.

This post is long enough and you already have several other good ideas that were mentioned before. Thanks to ALL of the devs, mods and community for making this project successful. SOEs actions brought us together as a community. Lets not forget why we are here and what made this game so great.

[inzaneflea]

I only post on my SWG Emu Server's message boards...Maybe I'll frequent here more often now.

[slave1dodger]

this is only the second post i have ever done. my first one was when i first joined as a member. i asked for help and two members responded. they both told me that new members asking questions tends to piss off other members and i should just sit back and wait for the game to develop. i took their advice. but i would love to participate in the stress tests and any other action that i could be involved in. i got another member to join since i been here and we both still have many questions. i hope i dont offend anyone by posting this as i am looking forward to joining the game and playing the old style of a game that i greatly enjoy.

[Iovid]

I know this is going to sound like I am a jerk but I see the same things being repeated in this thread and I want to try to give another perspective. No one is required to like it, I just want people to realize that they are responsible for the state of the community more then they take responsibility for.

I have watched IRC #swgemu & #test now every day since January so anything I say applies to that time frame.

One of the biggest gripes I am hearing is that new people get flamed immediately for asking questions in IRC chat. From what I have witnessed this is untrue. people rarely get flamed for asking a question but when it does happen, its because the person involved is asking a question that was answered in the FAQ's and they are just too lazy to read them even when someone is nice enough to redirect them to the forum. I have seen people get flamed a bit in IRC chat for other reason but 75% of the time that new person entered the room as if they were 13 years old and their daddy owned the place and their opinion is the only "right" one and everyone else should be forced ot listen to them. They are rude and demanding and SO MANY of them have never played the game or they only played for a few months or only during the NGE. These players are the ones I see asking very basic questions in IRC but posting tons of threads on new ideas for the game. Those types of people are the ones who screamed so loud to SOE to "balance the game" and you see where it got us. People deserved to be respected but you can NOT take ever person's gripe or opinion seriously or else we might as well just play the NGE again.

[Ekaika]

Good thread Ramz, sorry I haven't been around much. I spent quite a bit of time on the forums leading up to the stress test, and then sort of stopped.

I suppose it was because of a couple things:

After the test, I was up to speed on what's what. I am waiting on the next update.

IRC has been of little use to me except to check status. When I have logged in, there's so much random conversation, and none of it has anything to do with the emu, so I usually don't stay. If I did, I'm sure I'd get some tidbits though.

The community has definitely grown so much since the 1st stress. Lots of new people. I got frustrated trying to help out answering questions over and over. People will never learn. I guess I should be more patient though.

My thoughts to build/improve:

Update the front page with links, giant flashing neon banner with FAQ CLICK ME on it (lol).

A set monthly update would be great. You guys probably don't think it's much worth talking about little things, but giving everyone something to look forward to would keep em coming back. The Q/A thing is great, but once a month is all you need, if that. More than that is a waste of time for you.

I never minded the loose language much (well I flamed Hellaz alot but he's particularly nasty lol) but as the community grows, you're going to get more that the 20-30 something males here. Might want to tone all the foulness down to make it more safe for the masses.

Definitely link server-status to the front page or embed it in the page somewhere. I know you want people on IRC, but you're going to have to move away from that for things to grow eventually.

I had asked a while back to help mod the forums when things were booming. Can't do it anymore, but I think someones idea of a nominated small group of people directed to answer the basic questions and bring more complex ones to you would be helpful. Phantom and Smus and you devs don't have time enough to deal with all of it. No power per se, but just a Community Q/A Rep or something.

That's all I got. Glad to see you're taking a real interest in this. The project itself will attract folks, but to really blow it up you're going to need this type of activity. Good stuff.

Eka

[LSky]

People shouldn't be bashing ultyma. Who can blame the guy for getting pissed off? If you were putting in huge amounts of time into a free project that you weren't getting **** for and people always *****ed and moaned, I'd get pissed too.I'm sure everyone gets pissed of at some point. However, one dev takes the "I'm pissed" to a certain level that it doesn't help anyone. If that happens, don't be surprised when people don't want to read the forums or get on IRC.

[Litintha]

I have checked every now an then, but i have been VERY hesitate to post anything. I think my last post was in the general chat forum where i made the analogy of CU being Syphilis and NGE being AIDS or something like that.

Anyway. Here are a few of some "problems" that i have observed and some simple solutions:

1. The horrible attitude of the mods.
Since the mods here have stated several times, in this thread alone, that the old mods are almost all gone, i think there needs to be a statement, possibly a stickied thread in all forums, with this information. Even with newer, much more considerate, mods on the forums, people are still terrified to post anything for threat of being flamed for banned. This stems from what the old mods instilled into people. Some type of announcement needs to be made that new mods have come in, and are MUCH MORE willing to help and assist than previous mods. If this thread was stickied in all forums, more people would read and therefore, more people would post because their fears would be lifted, which leads to more community involvement.

2. We never get updates.
Another simple fix. You can create announcements on the main page, as well as threads throughout the forums, listing some of the most recent additions to Core3. This can be done weekly, bi-weekly, tri-weekly, monthy, etc. These additions may include, but not limited to: Profession tree updates, Combat updates, Stability updates, Upcoming public content testing, In-game traveling, and overall progress. With this fix, people will become informed on the status of the emulator, as well as eliminate all the 'What is being done" and "what is the progress" threads that appear.

3. The IRC chat is useless
If you plan on using the IRC channel as a means to communicate with the community in instant-message chat, then something needs to be done to make it more viable for it. From what i have read, people just sit in the IRC chat room and wait for some kind of update. If you want to continue to update the community on the happenings with the emulator on the IRC channel, perhaps setting a date/time for a representative from SWGEmu to give a brief summary of the progress would be a good start.

4. It is hard to get information to the community servers.
This is where my Public Relations education pays off. Perhaps once a month, set up a date/time when a representative from SWGEmu will go into IRC and hold a "press conference" type of situation. During this time, the IRC channel would be passworded off so only "reporters" from the community servers would be able to enter and ask questions. The way this "press conference" would be conducted is up to the person holding it, as long as it is conducted in a fair manner for the "reporters" who are present and asking questions.

5. They are mean to me!
Well...not much i can say about this, but i do have a solution. When someone asks a question that is in the FAQ, please try your best to POLITELY direct them to the FAQ page for more information. After that is posted, LOCK the thread so that no one else can come in and start to flame the new member.

That is all i have for now. If someone else comes to mind, you will see it. :-)

<3

[LSky]

1. The horrible attitude of the mods.
Since the mods here have stated several times, in this thread alone, that the old mods are almost all gone, i think there needs to be a statement, possibly a stickied thread in all forums, with this information. Even with newer, much more considerate, mods on the forums, people are still terrified to post anything for threat of being flamed for banned. This stems from what the old mods instilled into people. Some type of announcement needs to be made that new mods have come in, and are MUCH MORE willing to help and assist than previous mods. If this thread was stickied in all forums, more people would read and therefore, more people would post because their fears would be lifted, which leads to more community involvement.Not sure if that would help that much, but I suppose it would not hurt posting such an announcement.


2. We never get updates.
Another simple fix. You can create announcements on the main page, as well as threads throughout the forums, listing some of the most recent additions to Core3. This can be done weekly, bi-weekly, tri-weekly, monthy, etc. These additions may include, but not limited to: Profession tree updates, Combat updates, Stability updates, Upcoming public content testing, In-game traveling, and overall progress. With this fix, people will become informed on the status of the emulator, as well as eliminate all the 'What is being done" and "what is the progress" threads that appear.Before one can post an announcement, there needs to be something to show. I believe the devs decided not to post a large amount of small updates, but rather a little amount of larger updates.


3. The IRC chat is useless
If you plan on using the IRC channel as a means to communicate with the community in instant-message chat, then something needs to be done to make it more viable for it. From what i have read, people just sit in the IRC chat room and wait for some kind of update. If you want to continue to update the community on the happenings with the emulator on the IRC channel, perhaps setting a date/time for a representative from SWGEmu to give a brief summary of the progress would be a good start.Not a bad idea either. Though I don't think it's going to happen.


4. It is hard to get information to the community servers.
This is where my Public Relations education pays off. Perhaps once a month, set up a date/time when a representative from SWGEmu will go into IRC and hold a "press conference" type of situation. During this time, the IRC channel would be passworded off so only "reporters" from the community servers would be able to enter and ask questions. The way this "press conference" would be conducted is up to the person holding it, as long as it is conducted in a fair manner for the "reporters" who are present and asking questions.How is this helpful?


5. They are mean to me!
Well...not much i can say about this, but i do have a solution. When someone asks a question that is in the FAQ, please try your best to POLITELY direct them to the FAQ page for more information. After that is posted, LOCK the thread so that no one else can come in and start to flame the new member.Some mods and members do this, others don't. I don't agree on locking the thread immediately. If the newer person has another question to ask, then he we feel bad because his thread was locked. If the problem arises that people start flaming the newer guy/girl after someone already redirected the person to th FAQ, then just give those flamers a warning/ban.

[Veora]

I read the forums, just dont post, the flameflowers scare me :(

[Knuckles]

Another point that irritates me is that its people who never played preCU that makes up a good portion of moderators and devs. Its abit scary

[johnnydement]

Fresh start on forums

Delete all, crowd with guides,readmes, rules and howtos, for dumbs, not that you think it's understandable, ask your granny if she gets it...

HAve a timeline, wowroster has a great timeline and progress update system that is build inside dragonfly... swapping to that would give you a lot more versability than a plain vbulletin forum...

Don't think IRC is the best way to communicate... is not good during test sessions, because you will not be alttabbing the game to check irc, better an ingame channel, nor good for keeping relationship with the community, if you're not ther, you miss the info... damn! I was working/sleeping/feeding the raptor... and I will not know anymore... because I'm scared of asking...

No direct devs intervention, they get pissed because of what we say, and we get pissed because they don't say much... Q/Q threads, IRC sessions with them, but no direct participation (they can always have a multinick to lurk forums...)

Polls, lots of polls, poll new suggestions...

[thenetavenger]

IRC - Only use for Real Time Chat Server testing until you can get a Global Chat working on the server. IRC is not something casual people are going to figure out nor participate in when activity in the rooms can be from tons of non-essential banter to silence.

Forums - Structure, Structure, Structure. Right now navigating for information that is already out there is a pain, also there is a lot of outdated information on the forums that is confusing to non geeks.

Ask for participation - When you were first starting out there were several very direct requests from the community members for information about the game, logs, etc. Give us the same requests and many will help as they can. Now it seems as more of your work is behind closed doors, we can't contribute unless you request some very specifics from people. There are even developers out here sitting idle, and if you could block out code that they could assist with or at least help psuedo code, it could be a win win.

What people want the Servers to do - This should be an EASY answer for your team. Bring the game as close to pre-cu operationally as possible, and keep it generic at first to what was provided in pre-cu. This includes full implementation of Crafting, correct NPC spawns, Imperial Drops, Tefing, PVP, location of key NPCs in the pre-cu live world, etc.

Once you provide the game as it was, then you can look for ideas, or changes in administration features, options, add-on, etc. Don't let your goal fall into the gridlock of trying to please everyone or anyone, just make the game EXACTLY as the pre-cu was at first. The only request would be to have at the very least basic CSR Level controls for Admins to assist players, and it appears you are already on top of most of these commands.

Then you can make changes to allow more admin control from everything from holo only jedi to scripted content/NPCs and a way for people of the community to add new content to be shared, including worlds, etc.

JTL should be the last major expansion goal in what you provide as the generic core pre-cu server. Then as time allows let others help in working on bringing on new features like the other planets, etc.

People are screaming to just be a Rifleman/Fencer in a pre-cu world, and there is no MMO that currently offers the diverse pick and choose skill set, so start there and give everyone the basic game and build from there.

[DarkAku]

Ramsey,

First I'm not sure if I've ever played on SWG with you ramsey might have, so in the event that I did, I might have been a jerk too so first up front I'M SUPER SORRY IF I WAS. I've changed a lot since the past etc.

With that up front so everyone in the community can see now, onto the suggestions you asked for..

My Background:
I own and run a webpage since 1993. I've started/owned various local real life clubs in the past. I've been in various guilds in various games. I am/have been a manager in various professions retail, engineering, staging lead etc. So I've seen the good and the bad in all situations

My Suggestions:

1.) Legality of the EMU - I know that in the past and current the devs won't/can't talk about the legality of the EMU, from a previous post someone recently showed that there have been talks between SOE, LucusArts and the Devs. This scares a lot of community members off knowing if they should even get involved in this, not knowing if they can go to jail for playing the EMU.

Possible Fix: - Give people the end all be all of what you can say about this being/not being illegal. I do understand that there might be an agreement about saying anything but something should be posted about it, not just saying this isn't illegal.

2.) Weekly/Bi-weekly Updates - This is a must for any community from the Devs. If the community doesn't see any progress or any thoughts from the devs about how things are going it doesn't spark any interest. People will be like I guess what others say is true this will never get done. Post something even if it's nothing major any small accomplishment is AWESOME you guys rock for doing this for the Masses.

Q/A Thought - As for the Q/A suggestion I saw that would be great not sure how it would work for an in TC Q/A but that would kick butt or an IRC Q/A

3.) IRC Issues - I don't IRC much anymore in my old age. Did lots of it when I was younger. From what I can gather from others posts there seems to be too much crap on the IRC The way to fix this is try to have more than one moderator on the channel at a time and they have to come to a agreement to ban or what not a person.

Side Note - I don't IRC because I just don't have time in real life to do a lot of chatting, I'm working on so many projects for fun just don't have time.

[I]4.) TC Server Status - This suggestion should be put up as well. It's hard for many to IRC to see if the TC is up, so having something other than one place to check, remember the saying Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Simply put, have more than one place telling the status of the server.

5.) Forums and Issues - I'm just going to repeat what others have said and throw out some suggestions. Flames everywhere, too disorganized, not good mods currently.

a.) Devs shouldn't have time to watch the forums and moderate them. We should have various ACTIVE moderators where when a flame is posted, it is deleted ASAP and a PM sent to that poster not to post flames etc.

b.) This is for everyone. There will be newbies anywhere you go for anything. Stop being rude, flame, etc. Old and New fans to the EMU should be welcomed. Some of the newbies are young kids that just heard of it, others played Pre-CU and all are curious about the EMU educate them. Look at the end of this post to see everything I'm working on in my personal life and I still take the time to help newbies on my website and haven't tried too much on here yet, but soon.

c.) It was said before Structure. The community is large so the forums should be more detailed and organized. What I mean by this as others have stated, A newbie forum no matter what they ask someone will point them in the right direction or help them, Future server ideas needs to have sub-forums in there, like jedi, game mechanics, rides, ships etc. This should be done in all the forums if needed.

6.) Website needs additions - So far this website is just a forum website. While great and all, there needs more content. I've started a tiki wiki for someone in the forums to host all the pre-cu guides, but since I have 0% experience with a wiki I've asked for help with no takers yet. Maybe this should be more on this website. I'm willing to help etc. If not was considering making a site strictly for guides only. I would like to see this more for the main site thou but just a suggestion there. Site needs ideas other than just having forums.

7.) Advertising - I'm not sure how to go about helping getting the word out about the EMU and I think for some people it comes down to reason/suggestion #1. There are many things we can do tons of SWG sites out there post on their sites, talk to friends, go to your local gaming store and ask to put up flyers, etc etc. but still comes down to my first suggestion.

8.) EMU/Community Structure - Being a manager in various types of jobs and thinking about starting my own company let me say this. We need to micro manage things here. Let me get to some sub points here:

a.) Devs has started this project for themselves as well as for us all. But someone stated before once a project gets to this level of hype, involvement and community. The Devs no longer really own what is going on, meaning without you guys there is no EMU without the community as you want us to give suggestions and be active there is no EMU worth playing. So we should have like a project manager someone who might not know of coding the game etc. but someone who can be on the same role as a Dev more of a PR thing. Someone who can say to a dev hey you need to knock that off or why isn't this done yet in coding what is the issue, can the community help with something to ease your pain or problems? Having someone who has the same power that the devs do that way the devs can keep the manager in check and the manager can keep the devs in check with any problems that come up with anything.

b.) With that main part over, same thing with everything in the community. Website should have a main person running it that isn't a dev (let the devs worry about the game, but be in the background to stop a take over etc.) Same with the forum. Like a manager structure in retail: Owners, Regional Managers, Store Managers, Assistant Managers, Shift Leaders, CSR (the ones that deal with the customers directly)


In the end I'm trying to learn Japanese, VB, VB.net, SQL, Access, working 50hr weeks, playing MMOs waiting for the EMU, help local clubs if needed for my other hobbie (anime), would like to learn how a wiki works to help in this community to set one up for guides.

As you can see my plate is very full, but I'm willing to slow some things down to help out where I can.

Take these suggestions or don't up to you guys but I just re-said what others did and re-organized them a bit more and gave reasons behind stuff.

Thanks for reading this.

[Jay Hova]

Though this was a long time ago, I remember being on IRC and people were talking about offtopic stuff, I said one thing that wasn't rude racist or anything of the sort and I got kicked and the reason it said was "you don't belong here..." so that had discouraged me from going back.

[Litintha]

Before one can post an announcement, there needs to be something to show. I believe the devs decided not to post a large amount of small updates, but rather a little amount of larger updates.

In theory, this is probably the best way to go. However, human nature is almost always impatient. People will want updates of just about anything so they don't feel left out in the rain, so to speak.

Now, I am not saying that everytime something changes, there should be a post, such as "We fixed an animation." That is WAY too little. What i am talking about is "We have fixed several animations, along with the addition of another attack for combat testing."

That is the type of update that will keep people coming back, and not feel "left out in the rain."

Not a bad idea either. Though I don't think it's going to happen.
At least one of my ideas worked. ;)

How is this helpful?
It is helpful because getting important update information to the player servers is critical in building community involvement and support. While posting weekly, bi-weekly, tri-weekly, monthly, etc. updates here is a great thing, surprisingly enough, not everyone reads the forums. So, having reps from the player servers to come and ask questions will keep the player server communities up-to-date on the happenings with the emu is another good way to keep the community involved and interested.

Some mods and members do this, others don't. I don't agree on locking the thread immediately. If the newer person has another question to ask, then he we feel bad because his thread was locked. If the problem arises that people start flaming the newer guy/girl after someone already redirected the person to th FAQ, then just give those flamers a warning/ban.

Ok. Perhaps the auto-lock was not such a hot idea.:(

[Raiyden]

Another point that irritates me is that its people who never played preCU that makes up a good portion of moderators and devs. Its abit scary

I don't see why thats a particular problem. There here to moderate as opposed to being a fountain of knowledge on pre-cu. Though I guess you have a fair point if posts get locked in relation to pre-cu information.

[LSky]

In theory, this is probably the best way to go. However, human nature is almost always impatient. People will want updates of just about anything so they don't feel left out in the rain, so to speak.Fair enough, I support weekly/biweekly updates on the progress.
It is helpful because getting important update information to the player servers is critical in building community involvement and support. While posting weekly, bi-weekly, tri-weekly, monthly, etc. updates here is a great thing, surprisingly enough, not everyone reads the forums. So, having reps from the player servers to come and ask questions will keep the player server communities up-to-date on the happenings with the emu is another good way to keep the community involved and interested.If the server administrators wish to know what's going on, why don't they just check the updates forum?

[Baron_Primus]

Heh nice April Fools.. Scared me for one second precisely.

I was fooled and Ive been fooling all day today. :D :cool:

[Clad]

I've been around for a while now, but not really actively contributing. I'll do my best to test it out and give feedback. I really hope this SWGEmu succeeds! Long live Pre-CU!

[thama]

For me at this time the only think i would hope to see on the SWGEmu is the NPC, Spwam, and such think working, and then we could make a stress test, to see if can take the same amount of ppl on the same spot like the last time. And on secund, the craft, since there is no Combat whitout craft on this game ( in my point of view )

[jinxit]

Hmmm irc , the irc channel is like stepping back in time to when swg had its "moderated" chat rooms, anyone remember that? any one remember it being useless? anyone remember unforgiving csr's who would ban you faster than answer a question?

The point im trying to make here is , sony tried to make a chat channel to give help to players and answer questions in real time but the load was unbearable they couldnt handle the constant stream of text so instead of creating a helpful real time chat tool they ended up with a huge customer relations problem and thats what i think is happening all over again only its swgemu this time not sony

[Smusatto]

LSky, I'm still waiting on an explanation...

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?p=44664#post44664

[Raiyden]

I think the mods in general as they stand are good. Personally I find it very difficult to fully embrace the community here, with my guild and true galaxies I've had no problems what so ever. I'm trying to be more positive about the community here, I just find it difficult when someone merely passes on information to the community, for example in the deleted AHN thread, and all that member gets is flamed for passing on information important to the community. As soon as I stuck up for the guy all I got was abuse. People feel they can gain favor with you, the mods, by attacking new members, or people they deem a threat to the project. I've been with this community for well over a year and a quarter now and although it has improved vastly from when the old forums were around (especially since BigSwifty left), but its still a difficult community to feel particularly attached to. I admire all the work you guys put in, and I really am grateful for the work you do I just find the community somewhat difficult.

[Jani_Leitquenen]

I think that, as far as keeping people informed of the process, a thread with not just the newer additions, but also all that has been already added, would go a long way (and having that in the middle of a FAQ isn´t enough. I mean an actual thread in the updates forum organized somewhat along these lines:
Already implemented:
- A
- B
- C
Newly implemented in the past week:
- D
- E
Still to do:
- F
- G
- H
- I)
This allows for any user that wants to know how much is done and how much is left to find that out without having to ask any repeated questions. It also gives people an idea of "when it´s going to be done" without setting any deadlines whatsoever, and I would assume that the dev team has a rough idea of what they want to have in for the first "real" release.

As for community management... I can only speak for my case. I joined the forums, and was posting with interest, until I decided to ask for clarification on one of the forum rules, knowing that it may get me banned, but with the intent of avoiding breaking said rules in a more serious manner. The answer I got? My question was edited with a link to the FAQ (which I had stated that I had already read) and a rolleyes icon, plus a two week ban. Now, while I probably deserved the ban, the rest was not needed. A simple "this is also considered a violation of the rules" would have felt much nicer than just referring me to something I was saying I´d already read, it made me feel like the mod was insulting my intelligence, and that didn´t care for the intent of my post. After that, I went from checking the forums a few times a day, to checking them once every week or two, out of feeling that my presence here was more welcome as a silent observer, and not as a contributing member.

Now, to answer the original question: what can you guys do to improve? A clean slate on bans is a step in the right direction, but it´s not the only thing you can do. Sometimes, trying to bite your tongues, and doing things in a more polite way, even if it´s the same stupid question you´ve answered 1000 times, goes a long way. Trying to be patient and understanding that people can be new is important in the job of moderator, or anything that entails dealing with the community. Making things more accessible for those newbies is a great way to get you rid of some of those questions. Even breaking up the FAQ (which is quite large) into 3 or 4 different parts, dealing with different topics may help, since people are less intimidated by one page of questions than by 4, and may feel more inclined to reading it.

That´s all I can think of as of now, I´ll just add that this dialogue between the community and the team is a very positive thing, and definitely the way to go.

[akita0331]

well as a noob on this forum , i offer a humble opinion.I have been on most of the swgemu groups of forums ,true gal , rogue5 ,swgem and so on,and noticed some diffrences i dont quit understand . Each gives a irc addy but few use it,some have really informitive forums but all are looking towards the same goal.First off i have to say as a good forums page true galaxies is by far the leader on discussions and trying to get input on game issues.

I would like to have everyone give our devs a standing ovation , they are busting thier backs for us . Knowing this is a major undertaking, and only doing this part time with little reward other than a job well done.After saying that we should all consider this a new begining , with each one of us helping anyway we can after all this is "OUR" community . We can joke about "when is going to be done" ,but being a father i cant tell ya how many time i wanted to kill my kids for asking that.

We should be asking for peeps with skills in web design to work forum pages, TG has correspondents for each of the areas , crafting , combat ,general to give thier opinions of how things are going on core3 and each item as it comes online. this at least allows folks who arent going into the core 3 to get some updates.

each of us is entitled to a opinion ,so lets feel free to use it. Keep it constructive and short . And if someone gives an opinion show respect ,as someone will have for your opinion.if we want this to succead we all need to pull together ,and make this project work.There isnt a more rabid pre-cu fan than myself ,but showing patience and respect of those devolping this project is a must.

[Gulkia]

Progress/Updates = Active/Bigger Community

[Sinear]

everything looks to be going well in my opinion, i love to get on and test ect and am very happy with the way the dev team is handling the emu

[Balthz]

when people ask how to setup their client does it really take so much longer to copy & paste the guide for them real quick? i mean most of the time you post the link dont you just have to take a few more seconds to copy the guide real quick?

i dont really care what happens i just wanna play pre cu

i hope there are no bugs i think the game will be really balanced w/o bugs the soe devs had it right the first time i dont see why they changed something that worked

[ioiny]

Tbh I'm really impressed by the ahn project atm. Even a ****ing dev came to our forumm registredm just to say thank you. ****ing hell =)

[Smusatto]

Tbh I'm really impressed by the ahn project atm. Even a ****ing dev came to our forumm registredm just to say thank you. ****ing hell =)

This ahn? (http://www.ahntrio.com/)

That's great forum posts impress you. Core3 impresses me.

[LSky]

This ahn? (http://www.ahntrio.com/)Nice find.
But yeah, I'll dive into some logs later today.

[Smusatto]

Nice find.
But yeah, I'll dive into some logs later today.

Still waiting... (http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?p=44664#post44664)

[Zaff]

I've only read the first 6-8 pages of the thread. And I don't have time to read it all tonight. But I have a couple of thoughts based on the responses I've seen.

Someone recommended more of a full scale forum with a breakdown for each class, etc. Something more proactive toward getting community involvement in the development process would be to open new forum sections related to what is being worked on, or what is coming up soon in the task list for the devs. It will serve a dual purpose of updating the community on progress, while reviving some relevant information from the dead horses of the previous forums we've had.

When I don't have time to keep up with the updates, I often wish that the first reply was reserved as the place to update the overall status of the thread. Especially when I'm just starting to read one that is over 10 pages long. When I only have to 'view first unread' from a day or two ago it's easy.

As far as dealing with the innevitable noob questions, maybe we the community need to be replying to their messages with a prefab list of links to the faq and good stickies in the forums to redirect them. Many of us would be glad to add a recommended reading list to our sigs so that we can give them a friendly Welcome and point them to the FAQ and the update section for instance. I've seen some people do this already.

I'm not going back and reading the FAQ atm. One reason is that when I click on it on the home page, or the top of this page, I end up at a screen to search the FAQ. My wife had trouble finding it for the same reason. I could find it again if I really cared to dig around and remember where it is. But I don't right now. Now to my point: If the FAQ is anything but bullet point comments most people won't actually read it. They'll skim detailed instructions and thoroughly miss the point too. I have a very detailed document (with summaries for each section even) that I have to rewrite at work for this reason. A bullet point version of information in the forum account creation might get across to more of the people. I have my doubts. But it might. Especially if it only addresses minimal points. eg, "The EMU is still being created. We do not know when it will be finished. Please read the FAQ and Update sections for more information." A good short sticky in the Introductions forum might be a good idea too. Making the FAQ link in the blue bar at the top of the page go to the actual FAQ might remove some confusion as well. And if you don't know what link I'm talking about try this, http://www.swgemu.com/forums/faq.php I've read posts where people argued with new members who didn't find the FAQ because they followed that link. And that is the FAQ link a new member is going to spot first.

I'll try to finish reading this thread in a couple of days in order to be fully up to speed with it. My apologies if I've repeated suggestions. And thanks for all the hard work.

[LSky]

Still waiting... (http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?p=44664#post44664)Yeah, you can keep pressing F5 for about 8 hours. I'm going to uni first.

[Smusatto]

Yeah, you can keep pressing F5 for about 8 hours. I'm going to uni first.

Why would I do that? I have "uni" in the AM too. Take as much time as you need to look for some examples. I'd like to know how you could back that up. If anyone wants to help him out, go for it.

[LSky]

I'd like to know how you could back that up.For a start, you can find the reason why this whole discussion started in the first place.

[Smusatto]

For a start, you can find the reason why this whole discussion started in the first place.

How does that explain why you said:

Take on more forum staff and instruct them not to be so extremely hostile. Perhaps Smussato and especially Ultyma don't ban people for asking a question, but they sure do succeed in making the environment very unfriendly on the forums and on especially on IRC. I can give examples, but I'm sure you all know what I'm referring to.

Please quit dodging the question. If you can't back it up, just say so.

[LSky]

Please quit dodging the question.I'm not, I just don't have the time to answer it this very minute. As I posted before, I'll dive into those IRC logs to make you happy. You should quit ignoring the fact that there is something wrong with this community.

[Smusatto]

I'm not, I just don't have the time to answer it this very minute. As I posted before, I'll dive into those IRC logs to make you happy. You should quit ignoring the fact that there is something wrong with this community.

When did I ever say there was nothing wrong with this community? I didn't. I asked you to back up what you said about me. Again, take as much time as you need to look for examples. I'm patient.

[LSky]

When did I ever say there was nothing wrong with this community? I didn't. I asked you to back up what you said about me. Again, take as much time as you need to look for examples. I'm patient.I was referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. On that, if people are afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums, don't you think there is something wrong?

[Smusatto]

I was referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. On that, if people are afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums, don't you think there is something wrong?

k... I'll try breaking this down as simple as possible. I'm not referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. I'm referring to you saying I "sure do succeed in making the environment very unfriendly on the forums and on especially on IRC." I'm asking you to give examples(like you said you could) of how I've done that.

[na85]

This ahn? (http://www.ahntrio.com/)

That's great forum posts impress you. Core3 impresses me.

Wow, way to attack someone who was trying to compliment you.

[Smusatto]

Wow, way to attack someone who was trying to compliment you.

Are you kidding? :confused:

[na85]

Isn't that what you're doing there? I dunno, maybe I misinterpreted. Emotion doesn't transfer very well via text.

Looks like it to me, tho.

[Smusatto]

Isn't that what you're doing there? I dunno, maybe I misinterpreted. Emotion doesn't transfer very well via text.

Yes, I believe you did misunderstand. I wasn't attacking anyone. He was complimenting anh, but he said ahn.

[na85]

I was referring to the "that's great that forum posts impress you" part. Whatever, it's not a big deal, I just happened to be skimming the thread.

[Smusatto]

I was referring to the "that's great that forum posts impress you" part. Whatever, it's not a big deal, I just happened to be skimming the thread.

Yes, I was poking fun at his comment, but he wasn't attempting to compliment me or SWGEmu by any means. In fact, he was complimenting the competition. I think I went easy on him. /shrug

[na85]

Like I said, I'm really not too worked up over it, and emotion doesn't really translate well via forum. My bad.

[Smusatto]

Like I said, I'm really not too worked up over it, and emotion doesn't really translate well via forum. My bad.

Neither am I. np.

[Damean1]

My question was edited with a link to the FAQ (which I had stated that I had already read) and a rolleyes icon, plus a two week ban. Now, while I probably deserved the ban, the rest was not needed.

I feel I must respond to this. In my opinion no one should ever get in trouble of any sort, be insulted, or even talked down to for asking a question. If you never asked questions I would expect your ignorance to be astounding. Being given a link is commendable, the roll eyes icon acceptable, but to punish someone for asking a question is to promote ignorance. Questions are the key to learning, if you never ask you never learn, and if you punish those who attempt to learn how can you blame anyone but yourself for being annoyed at the ignorance of others about subjects on which you are well versed?

Once again, I lay no blame, I am angry at no one. I am simply passing on the little wisdom I have when I see that it may be relevant(sp?).

I also wish to say thank you to those who have been helpful to me in answering my questions on IRC in the last couple of days. I appreciate your willingness to enlighten me, as I know my ignorance of this project must be more extensive than only a select few.

[crazyjayloc2003]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

no i think you guys are doin a great job,

i just visited the emu today and noticed two things no three that were not there last week

1) butterfies

2)bumble bee type insects

3) spawning brings you back to where you last exited the emu, which i might add was funny because i got lost in the vast expanses of the planet

now those might seem small to most, but to me they were an indication of progress and it was enough to satisfy my curiosity

i think since you guys do read the forum, that many of the ideas are being tossed around,

maybe one suggestion is in order, that there be a correspondent that will be able to address the issues discussed in the forum as far as ideas go, and give logical response either positively or negatively in a sticky to topics that seem to be the center of the most debate

that might help clarify some misconceptions and keep people focused on trying to work better as an overall team

just my $ 0.02

[Kyle]

I think you guys are doing a great job with the game. Someone already mentioned this, but it would be nice to see something change on the front page more often. Casual users go to www.swgemu.com and see that not much is happening because the front page posts are few and far between and they may think nothing is going on. I don't care, I hang out in IRC, but most people don't. People who occasionally visitmay not delve into the forums, and be put off by a month+ between homepage updates. Just a thought.

Kyle
THE launchpad to have (http://launchpad.thewildclan.com)

[Arrin]

What i would like is for you guys to focus on finishing combat..
making it a little fun so we could possibly hold off and wait while you guys work :)
what i mean is...
adding stats, character stats, migrating them ETC..
the way they were before
adding proffesions in so everyone is differnt..
adding armor and weapons with differnt stats as well ( doesn't have to be crafting maybe...)

i want to start testing out templates and pvping TRUELY the way it was before :)
even though that might be hard.. if you broke down really just worked for a week or two, maybe it'd be possible just to get all that in? then we could all wait for a while.

Like someone stated earlier forgot who.. but anyway
we could just have trainer npcs all in a line, training for skills, we could all just get skills there, then run off and pvp :)
then maybe another npc for clothings/armor/weapons.

[Jotac]

From what ive read here in this thread between staff and members it has reinforced what everyone has told me, that it is unfriendly here. If you cant take criticizism dont ask for it. I have stayed off TC here because i dont want to get banned unless there is a stress test and my server forums has told when to log on. I dont want to know you personnally but i do support your work. The staff seems to be taking things random people say too personal its just because of how people have been treated and no i cant prove it its just the word of many people i go by and my own observations. So keep up the good work sometimes fame sucks.

[dalis12]

i dunno if this has been said as my eyes started to blur about 17 pages in so i skimmed form that point on.... i should really read this more often instead of all at once....

but anyway....

maybe a way to cut down on the newbie questions would be to stick the FAQ in the registration process. make it like EULA where you cant proceed with registration before you "read" it.

i know people never actually read the EULA's but with the faq maybe poeple would or atleast they would be aware of it and not go to the furoms first with the questions.

i dunno,

just my 2 creds on the subject.

[Navi]

One thing to get more people into IRC would be better IRC help.

When I came here at first I only had a slight clue of what IRC even was. And I read all the post about reading IRC forum and searching it. So I searched, but really without any good results. I just couldn't find an easy guide about how to get it set.

Hell, it took some time only to find an IRC client. And finding the channel to login to wasn't easy at all. Maybe if there was a step by step IRC guide it would help alot of people that don't know alot of computers to use IRC.

The next problem was that when I logged in I was banned. ****, I thought, what did I do wrong now? I already knew that the rules were tough but... I hadn't even done anything! Anyhow, later I got explained to me that my ISP was banned. The solution would be getting another client, but that wasn't easy. I already had problems finding my first client.

So, I suggest not banning ISP's. I don't think it's necessary to ban them, since lots of people that doesn't understand why they are banned can't login. And people that really wants to login can still get around that ban. But those who don't know why they're banned the first time they try to login might just leave the forums and all just because they simply... yeah... don't know what's going on.

[Smannesman]

I just couldn't find an easy guide about how to get it set.
What about this one (http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2467)?
It's way up at the top of the Site/IRC Support board.

Anyhow, later I got explained to me that my ISP was banned. The solution would be getting another client, but that wasn't easy. I already had problems finding my first client.
That seems extremely unlikely since a new client doesn't get you a new ISP.

So, I suggest not banning ISP's. I don't think it's necessary to ban them, since lots of people that doesn't understand why they are banned can't login. And people that really wants to login can still get around that ban. But those who don't know why they're banned the first time they try to login might just leave the forums and all just because they simply... yeah... don't know what's going on.
What about these posts?
I have cleared the gline list for IRC. Welcome back.
No one is being banned anymore, so I dont see why everyone is dwelling in the past.

[subwoof]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?
Seems to me you're trying to make excuses to explain why the project is stalled.

[LSky]

k... I'll try breaking this down as simple as possible. I'm not referring to why this entire discussion thread was started in the first place. I'm referring to you saying I "sure do succeed in making the environment very unfriendly on the forums and on especially on IRC." I'm asking you to give examples(like you said you could) of how I've done that.I looked through a bunch of the logs and I'll admit that you are not to blame for this situation. I suppose things get mixed up if you see a lot of banning taking place on IRC. At least it narrows that problem to one person. It would be cool if that could be fixed so that we can just continue being a normal community.

[Netman]

well.. i apologize for my english but isn't my mother language, maybe u can use an swg translator device to read what follows

My opinion is that you have an huge quantity of work to do, and you can't handle it of course due you also have a real life, but there is a lot of people here who are waiting for a stable version of the server, also is logical that if all we discuss here but only a few are on the swgemu staff the work is slowed down considerably..here comes my humble opinion:

In each huge work, you should create a TEAMWORK, due you deal with an huge quantity of work, so you should for a team of people who like swg and are of course skilled in it, this means that they have already played on old swg and/or they are skilled in programm language as well, but you won't more people on swgemu staff...

so here comes the 3 main point:

1) share your actual unstable server code to admins who like to host their swgemu server in the future, giving them the right directions about what they shall do to help you

2) each admin would set up a server and start a test server for their community so they could speed up swgemu giving feedbacks regarding each bug/opinion/ideas you need to continue your job properly

3) once you collect this data from those servers you'll have a lot of help and information to tweak the final stable release, also you can see who is skilled enought to help you directly developing the final stable server and could become an swgemu staff member to cooperate directly to you

Staying in irc or in a forum imho is not a good idea to improve swgemu, due lot of people have different aspectatives and/or minor/major suggestions, what to say also about trolls, flammers...and last but not least...actually all the whole work depends on you, and that's will slow the swgemu development

thats my 0,2 €

[Wyz]

Seems to me you're trying to make excuses to explain why the project is stalled.

Seems to me you're having nothing useful to say. :p

Please be constructive.

[Sonako]

Don't worry, Mr. Time-travel says that in 2 more years, they will give up on the project and make it open source, and since the egotism will be over, the emu will be out within months.

[Willara]

I admit I lurk on the forums and have never actually posted. This is partially because like a lot of people in this thread have said already-fear of getting flamed as I'm really not much of an argumentive person. I've also never played much on the test center because I'm pretty much skidish about the same thing. Plus I would qualify as a carebear when it comes to pvp and I know it's not actual pvp right now on the test center but I am just strange that way I guess, I just can't do it lol. So when npcs are added I will definitly try to log on and help out more.
Another reason being I know I'd get flamed because it seems the majority of posters here arn't very fond of jedi in general and honestly jedi are what drew me to this game, so most of my ideas/suggestions would apply to them so I guess most of the reason I don't post is because I fall into the minority and would be drowned out by the majority more than likely than actually have my suggestions/comments actually considered.
But I also realize that those topics have been talked to death anyways so for what they are worth here are a couple of other things that I think would be cool additions to the precu and also I don't know anything about coding so if these ideas arn't possible do to coding I apologize.

Smuggler revamp- I personally never actually played a smuggler but from what I remember from playing precu was that their only real purpose was to slice weapons. The smuggler profession really needs to be able to smuggle and it might be a pretty cool thing to add in a Jabba or rogue or whatever you want to call it faction for those who don't want to participate in the galactic civil war, which could tie into smuggling, but not necessarily make the neutral faction smuggler only.


Another suggestion would be to add more pve content I know pvp is great and all in the precu but somthing else to do would be nice. Perhaps expanding on the corvette type of missions for rebels/imps or finding ways to incorporate the quests from Rage of the Wookies (and changing the rewards from those quests as I know they ruined things for crafters) I was always a big fan of running Necrosis (even if that was during the cu it was still kinda fun) Or perhaps just additional themeparks in general.

I'll try to think of some other suggestions as I know my ideas above are kind of general and probably have already been suggested before or post comments on some other people's ideas more I'll just try to ignore flammers the best I can.

[malthol]

I have to agree with Anakis and I do understand why people who don't think before they speak get flamed or banned. I have tried not to meddle in the affairs of the developers so I wont slow them down but if there is anything that I can actually help with I am always more than willing and I wish there was more I could do.

I'm in the same boat as Iovid. I did once exchange a pair of messages with Bracketh, asking if I could help on a research project in live which hadn't received any new posts in a couple of months. The response was friendly, but he said "hang out on IRC, that's where things happen." Well, having spent time hanging out on IRC, not much happens there honestly excepting during guided testing. I guess the idea was so the devs could get a sense of who folks are, but most of the conversation in the IRC channel is pointless and not really useful to see how well someone would follow through on assisting the team. And personally, when the choice is spending my time deciphering the grammar on IRC or working on my PhD, I've got to choose the latter.

[cnotiog]

From browsing the forums and reading various posts it seems to me that there is a very unfriendly atmosphere here. This attitude seems to be partly fueled by the developers. If there was a friendly and welcoming atmosphere, I and some other former players I know would be very eager to help out, give ideas, suggestions and feedback. But the way things currently are, many people will not be willing to get more involved with things.

[ioiny]

This ahn? (http://www.ahntrio.com/)

That's great forum posts impress you. Core3 impresses me.

Tbh xeno,snow, mugly, tmr, ready, Ketuspringa, rouse, htx, jack, schmunzel, yosh, exca impress me.

Hi all,

just wanted to say 'thanks' for all the kind words, we're in the process of designing and working out our PR strategy at this time.

Once complete, we should have the 'updates' nailed down which will be of greater benefit to the every swg community.

regards
snow

information, generall communication > core 3

[Smusatto]

I looked through a bunch of the logs and I'll admit that you are not to blame for this situation. I suppose things get mixed up if you see a lot of banning taking place on IRC. At least it narrows that problem to one person. It would be cool if that could be fixed so that we can just continue being a normal community.

Thank you. That's all I asked for.

I'm not afraid to admit that for a long time, I didn't even know how to ban people on IRC. I had to google it whenever I wanted to ban someone, which as you could prolly tell, was very rarely.

What exactly is a "normal community?" I hope you don't mean perfect. I think we'll always have problems. If it isn't this, it'll be something else. It's how we deal with them that matters.

Tbh xeno,snow, mugly, tmr, ready, Ketuspringa, rouse, htx, jack, schmunzel, yosh, exca impress me.



information, generall communication > core 3

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

[david665]

You really can't put the blame for the way the community is or isn't being built on the community members, if the originators of the community aren't doing anything themselves to energize or promote it. It's like blaming the caboose for the engine being late.

The devs here should have learned the lessons that SOE has yet to learn, that bad word of mouth travels faster than good. And it's widely known that on earlier incarnations of these forums, the devs and mods took a decidedly draconian way of governance when it came to the forums and IRC.

As has been said, a lot of subjects have been beaten to death. Right now, as far as discssion goes, we seem to be travelling over the same ground.

[Hero164]

I thik its difficult for the community as everything is rumor and speculation. Yes we would like to see new exciting ideas and there are some excellent ones on this site surrounding a myriad of facets of the game. If any one of us was given access to ask any questions it would be:

When will the emu be finished?
What is your development schedule?

Because the problem is right now is I don't know if the emu is a week a month or a year from completion. If it is a week and you are asking for new ideas to work on next then that is one thing. If it is 6 months or more then people would rather the time was spent on the EMU.

It is your community, we are all here for you, if you need help or cash or whatever then we are pretty motivated and I'm sure could come up with something. However information is absolutely the lifeblood of these boards and of IRC and this is the most tightlipped community on development I have ever encountered. In the absence of good official information people will naturally go off topic and you see some of the more purile sides of a community.

I have been on IRC loads, but I've just about had every SWG conversation there is to have on there, from PVP to Jedi, to NGE whatever its been done. People can't keep up intelligent comment for years, the standard drops as even the more committed members get bored. New people then become the only real difference but they ask the same questions a jaded community asked at the start of the project.

Yes there are problems with IRC bans, newbie flaming, off topic conversations and the like. These however are all symptoms of a community desparatley wanting to believe that this will arrive soon.

[Relenap]

Ok being a lurker I may need to vocalize what I am waiting for to be "more active".

I check this site about once a week. I used to check it everyday. Why did that change? Well there's so little to read now that I can get through the new stuff in a couple hours a week rather then the couple hours a day to catch up. I personally thing the project is going well but we can discuss that only so far without newer stuff to talk about. A post on the second or so page of this had it right. The "how's your day bob" thing fits well.

That said, I think that the best way to go about this is to not aim for all of 12.1 honestly. It's a huge undertaking. You need to do jedi, space, dungeons, ect ect and it's gonna take awhile. My suggestion is to just aim for something playable and add in details when you can. Make it sorta neat like mini expansions. You start off with the 32 professions excluding jedi (that's a lot of time in itself) and release that. People will already rejoyce because it would be like SWG at release. There were no jedi, no space, no DWB. We liked the grind to get that first profession. People started to grind out credits and resources then. There wasn't any major complaining (trying to remember back. I started 1.5 months after release but took a break after 5 months). Then people found out how to unlock. In the time people are having fun now you can work on the jedi stuff. when it's released, it will be like a mini expansion and emulate the first person unlocking on the server. Then while people do that you work on space ect ect.

I don't really know if thats even a feasible route but it's an idea. I just think you have very little community involvement because of the lack of things to do. If there was even something to pass the time with you would have a lot of feedback and a larger community. Seeing that there really is none, many including myself are passing time in something else (currently Vanguard because it is very similar to the old EQ but has parts of SWG I miss like housing). If we are doing these then we aren't focusing on this.

Ok enough of a rant. I do have a few ideas that would help. First is already mentioned. The website is a mess. If you know where to look then it's ok but it really could be better. There is something in place for this though.

Secondly we need a big welcoming on the front page. This need to say "Welcome to SWGEmu. Please read the FAQs before you do anything else. This will catch you up to speed and give you most of the information you need to discuss matters in the Forums." and make a sidebar with big buttons that say FAQS Forums ect. those little ones are barley visable :( .

Next the Bi Monthly Q and A would be incredible. Just one person from each area (they don't even all have to be in the same Q and A) discussing what they are working on. Say for example Ulty can give a general overview the first time and then someone else can discuss what he is working on ect. If we just have one big one then we won't get a ton of info to discuss. This way by the time Ulty's turn comes around he can have a lot of new things to discuss.

After that would have to be a monthly stress test/server event. I like where the whole tuskan thing is going. One of these monthly (with or without new stuff added) would really help as well. Keeps the community as tight knit as possible without something to play day to day. I would even hand these out to the server admins like true galaxies and such. After you release it let those smaller communities grow some as well. Sort of like a "Here's a new toy. Now we'll give out a few and you guys can have fun" sorta thing.

Then the final thing is just being more vocal. Ramsey did a good job starting with this thread. At least pretend to keep an interest in us. You guys are on your way to becoming idols. When this is finished you will be remembered by the 15K+ of us that have been yerning for PreCU in all of it's glory once again.

In closing, push but don't push to hard. Get something out there and polish it later. Heck Vanguard did and it's already got 300k for being Beta 423. We still pay for it because it's something. Take one decent note from those at SoE, people still play something broke. Give us old SWG broke over not giving us old SWG bug free. Did that make any sence? I'll take what you have now if I can do at least some progression over waiting more to do anything.

I hope this post is what you were looking for Ramsey. I tend to ramble and not make a lot of sence at times but if you put the pieces together then you might find something you can use.

[Jani_Leitquenen]

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?

Not wanna sound like I´m critizising you, Smusatto, but it´s stuff like this that people don´t take kindly to, even when said with the best of intentions. Instead of a remark that may have a rather sarcastic tone (hard to convey on text), something along the lines of: "While I see your point, I disagree with your oppinion" sounds much more professional and calm than "lol are you kidding? Late April Fool´s", simply because that sounds like you´re patronizing the poster for having an oppinion (as misguided as that oppinion may be).

I emphasize this because I think it´s a good example of why people may perceive that unfriendliness coming from the mods. Dealing with the public isn´t easy, I´ve had to do that in the past, and I know it all to well, but sometimes, you gotta bite your tongue and hold back that witty answer, and try to just be as neutral as possible, for the best of the team.

[AshVinau]

Just a thought but as i used Google to get the link to your site i noticed that in the comments about your site there was a reference to the OP's thread. Imho this type of rant isn't going to help get people interested SWGEMU if their first glimpse of this forum is one of blame. Im not pointing any fingers as we are all guilty of it at some point. My only concern is that this is a publically viewed site and swgemu isnt in the position to be able to take this sort of anti-publicity.

Lookin out for you guys :) and I'm overwhelmed at the time, effort and dedication to making a pre CU game.

Thank You :D

[Mikekul10]

So what about this pppppp :D they sure seem to have their prioities straight. wow thats funny, you guys sensored out swg **** anh because you must fear them...sad...mabye if you produced some quality work...lol

[amuskindu]

My 2 cents on the whole thing...hope I dont get flamed/banned for it.

I think the whole thing stems from all the drama that has taken place here since the initial explosion last summer with the release of the zone video.

First we had the Joker Debacle. The community thought "Could we trust the Devs?"

Second, we had the Core2 problems. Antman's un-willingness to work with people who gave him suggestions made that project go to hell ultimately. I don't know Antman that well, so if he lurks here I hope he doesnt think I'm launching a personal attack on him, however only stating what I saw in the forums.

Third, we had the CU-EMU Debacle. They stole code, displayed it as their own, and the SWGEMU team got upset, rightfully so. This is when everything went closed source, and it seemed like the Devs grew a distrust for the community as a whole based on this.

Then Xeno came back. Things looked up. We were getting updates regularly, packets were being decoded. Core 3 was on it's way it seemed...

Somewhere in this timeframe, the Core1 combat code was released so Ultyma could prove that CUEMU stole code. This stemmed RevZ, which is what most of the EMU Server Admins (Myself included) are using. It became a viable alternative due to the closed nature of the EMU at this point. Things went quiet even more because people, especially ones who have a server affiliation, had something to do while waiting quietly for news on the Core 3...

Ultyma and Xeno got in a fight. I don't know where the hell it stemmed from, I got in IRC late, but IMHO it just seemed to be a bickering match between the two. This lead to Xeno's leaving the project, and things seemed to go dark again. The community at this point (myself included) wondered if the Dev team could ever be a cohesive bunch...

When this happened, ALOT of team members left. Most of the mods, Xeno, and a few others. This just added to the fuel on both sides. The Devs and Mods ruled with more of an Iron Fist, and the community was at this point afraid to voice concerns or even give suggestions.

Then the Core3 stress test came. People are foaming at the mouth over it. However, it's impressive that 400 people can be in one place at one time, but to act like it's the most amazing thing since sliced bread is pre-mature IMHO. Who knows what will happen when systems are put into Core3. Will the lag still be non-existent? Who knows.

All of this past distrust between all parties involved seems to have spawned 3 camps of people...

1) The ones who are obsessively checking the site still, and are the ones praising Core3. However praise != help.
2) The ones who are either apprehensive about posting, or those that are quietly watching from afar, hoping for the day that Core3 will be released. Either way they're quiet.
3) The ones that have given up on the project. They may still lurk, but they're probably the ones looking at ANH or RevZ as the successor to SWGEMU.

So, in closing, Ramsey - it goes both ways. There's been things that occurred on both sides, Devs/Mods And the Community, that caused the other side to either distrust or outright dislike one another. This may all be in the past, but it definitely still leaves a sour taste in both sides mouths. I think the first step would be reconciling with each other before wondering why the Community isn't helping.

I do thank you for starting this thread, to allow people in Camp #2 (myself) to voice their concerns.

[ioiny]

lol are you kidding? Are you really trying to tell me a forum post is more impressive than core3? Late April Fool's?
You are so ******* unproffesional it's a f****** joke, hope you can see that now.

This is a thread where ramsey ask people what they think is wrong here and want the community too help.
You can't ******* strike em down then can you when they are saying thiere opinon. Listen to it, consider it and swallow your bollox, instead of making your thought the greatest.

******* hell man.

[Flashback]

I must agree with Amus on that issue. Many of us have either suffered attacks from the SWGemu team in the past, or have seen fellow members suffer them. This was enough for some of us to remain quiet about our own opinions and statements to safeguard us from banning, etc.

I am unsure if you remember me Ramsey, but I have followed the swgemu team since it was still affiliated with the Dark force team. I have been by the team´s side for over an year, and at a moment I was actually give them change by Solen and Aeledor (can´t remember the spelling) to join as a mod on the swgemu team.

But before I pronounced myself, something happened in the IRC channel back in the day where the swgemumods still used your server. I remember well enough antman complaining about us using your server since we were not a true part of the emu dev team. Since I was a member (and still am) of the mod team, I stood up for it, and guess what, the next day I was banned from the swgemu forum. I used to go by the name of ARRAKESH.

Ever since, I registered under this alias and have only been looking at the forums from time to time with no real interest or willingness to help out, and before antman joined the team, if you still have the threads on DB, you may see that I was a major contributor to the forums.

I believe you when you say you want help from the community once again, for I have always kept you in high standards, however, I am still a little doubtful about the team´s willingness to fully accept our comments, for some of them may be critics about the way things are, and we may end up being banned once more. However, I will give you guys a vote of confidence hoping for the best.

/Salute

[tihutoha]

I've been in irc and it's actually quite friendly in there, never seen anyone talking about the fate of the emu, usually bs'ing about other games, but I've been squelched, flamed and generally dont like to post on the forums for the most part, not because some little 13 year old brat is going to "intimidate" me, but just dont like the general "attitude" of the bulk of the members. Hopefully the emu doesn't get the nge fanboi base shifting over here (been with you guys pretty much since the beginning, and absolutely HATE the nge and the thousands of /duel "can anyone gimme free armor and money" requests you get there these days) /turnoffrant.

[Sharkz]

i've slowed down following SWGemu since i was banned from IRC for a simple mistake. I misread a small part of a guide and thought that i had to ask in #test whether it was up or not. I did not know what the 'topic' was and when some one said and i quote 'Read the ****ing topic' i asked what the topic was and then i was banned. I saw a bit too late that the up|up thingy wasn't for the mirc as i originally presumed but actually showed whether the Core3 Server was up. That was it, no more IRC for me, was perma banned with no second chance, i still support the project but i have to wait for the release to play it.

My experiance of the forum is nothing but flaming and closed posts. (Not me posting but searching through it)

In my personal opinion there are parts that are handled very unprofessionally but I still recognise that you Devs have alot of work to do and don't need to be distracted by new members such as me.

[Tovo]

I dont post or sit on irc because:

1. Im a precu veteran and people trying to mould the game into the NGE just annoys me.

2. I like the original bugged game and believe that it should be like that at release, then development discussions.

3. IRC is too strict, If some new guy asks something like is the server up in #test its like auto ban/flame by ultyma.

4. There are too many suck ups to the devs.

People should read FAQ's and use search but the majority don't, so they get a hard time for it when really someone just needs to post a link for them or tell them where to look for what they seek.

[Pake]

To limit the number of newbee questions already answered I propose setting up a page in the middle of the creating an account process. Basically a new comunity member will start to fill in his information and clicks next, then is directed to a page that has a very condenced form of the FAQ's, set up like the AGREEMENT warnings that we all just ignore and scroll through, titled as MUST READ or something but start with the "ETA OF COMPLETION", in large font and in red, as the first question and followed by an extremely brief explanation of how no one including devs know and asking is not allowed. All following questions could be in red and large font, on the left side and followed by extremely brief explenations. the questions should be listed in order based on the frequency that newbees asked them. The idea is that they can't just hit the next button without at east scrolling through and the red large font should jump out at them, and should catch their eye since it prob. will be one of the questions they are hoping to get answered with creating a registration. Just a thought, but I do welcome input.

[cammo/p0int]

Heres why I don't post much:

I'm busy as hell doing other things that prevents me from throughly looking over everything. I follow the emulation, and ive been around since the original forums around when xeno joined, a good two and a half years now or so? I'm a mod for another gaming community and apart from my other tasks, i just dont have the time to jump on IRC or anything else. I get my updates secondhand from others I converse with.


So, in closing, I dont post much because well.. I just dont usually have the time to.

[goldcrud]

To limit the number of newbee questions already answered I propose setting up a page in the middle of the creating an account process. Basically a new comunity member will start to fill in his information and clicks next, then is directed to a page that has a very condenced form of the FAQ's, set up like the AGREEMENT warnings that we all just ignore and scroll through, titled as MUST READ or something but start with the "ETA OF COMPLETION", in large font and in red, as the first question and followed by an extremely brief explanation of how no one including devs know and asking is not allowed. All following questions could be in red and large font, on the left side and followed by extremely brief explenations. the questions should be listed in order based on the frequency that newbees asked them. The idea is that they can't just hit the next button without at east scrolling through and the red large font should jump out at them, and should catch their eye since it prob. will be one of the questions they are hoping to get answered with creating a registration. Just a thought, but I do welcome input.
Yeah I think that would be good or make a announcement on the front page that says we don't know when the emu will be released.

[viza]

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

With all due respect, you guys know what you are doing and know what you need to do. Me posting ideas is silly until I have a pre-CU server to play on and can see room for improvement. How can I suggest anything if I don't see anything that needs fixing? I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything, but that's probably why people aren't posting much. It's all pie in the sky until we can log into something and play the game. Telling you how to improve your recipe for pie in the sky is kind of pointless since it can't be tasted.

Right now my advice would be "Let me log in and try it out". Oh, combat's not working yet.

Advice: Get combat working!


SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

With all due respect, this community gets battered by your mods everytime they suggest something. Maybe you guys are doing a piss poor job of encouraging our input. Believe me, we are willing. Everything most people see when they read these forums is "We don't have time for your stupid ideas, we are busy building a game server. If you ask questions you will be flogged. If you make suggestions, you will be flogged. If you ask about x, y, and z features you will be flogged."

This soup-nazi attitude is cool, fun even. I'm good with it.

Because of it, most of us just post "You guys are cool" and keep checking the boards once in a while, to stay out of "trouble".

Hey, if you don't want my input, and tell me you don't, I'm keeping quiet. When I see other peopel getting banned and flamed for asking questions, I'm keeping quiet.

I have no problem doing this, but don't act surprised like you don't know something and say "what? you don't talk to me, you never call?". Yea, just finished growing my eyebrows back from the last time I talked and got flamed...

The best thing you could do to foster community input is to completely purge this forum of everything but the faq's, news, and information about the emu, and start over with a fresh attitude that encourages input.

Start a forum for each aspect of the game, and accept suggestions, dreams and stupid ideas there.

You want to know how to get more out of the community? Stop punishing them for posting. Hopefully you can get something useful out of my post here.

-Viz

[Smusatto]

Not wanna sound like I´m critizising you, Smusatto, but it´s stuff like this that people don´t take kindly to, even when said with the best of intentions. Instead of a remark that may have a rather sarcastic tone (hard to convey on text), something along the lines of: "While I see your point, I disagree with your oppinion" sounds much more professional and calm than "lol are you kidding? Late April Fool´s", simply because that sounds like you´re patronizing the poster for having an oppinion (as misguided as that oppinion may be).

I emphasize this because I think it´s a good example of why people may perceive that unfriendliness coming from the mods. Dealing with the public isn´t easy, I´ve had to do that in the past, and I know it all to well, but sometimes, you gotta bite your tongue and hold back that witty answer, and try to just be as neutral as possible, for the best of the team.

You are so f****** unproffesional it's a f****** joke, hope you can see that now.

This is a thread where ramsey ask people what they think is wrong here and want the community too help.
You can't f****** strike em down then can you when they are saying thiere opinon. Listen to it, consider it and swallow your bollox, instead of making your thought the greatest.

f****** hell man.

Wow...you two seriously need to lighten up. Ioiny was clearly complimenting the competition. Am I not allowed to poke fun at him for that? He's saying a forum post impressed him. I'm not allowed to point out how absurd that sounds? If any of you actually followed my posts here over the last 5 to 6 months, you'd see I'm more than respectful to most everyone's opinions. When somebody comes here and starts brown nosing ANH over some forum post, I'm going to find that funny and poke fun at them for it. If that genuinely bothers you, I think you need to calm down and not take everything so seriously.

Hate to break it to you guys, but I'm not always going to come off as "professional." Want to know why? I'm not a professional. I don't get paid to mod these forums. I don't expect to be paid for it either. I do this in my spare time. If I want to be sarcastic when responding to someone ignorant enough to come here and brown nose ANH, I'm going to do it. I highly doubt anyone on the team cares how we respond to people who come here brown nosing ANH. If anything, they'd think I went easy on him.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to be "unfriendly" to Ioiny for his comments. I just thought they were rather absurd and I had to ask if it was a late April Fool's joke. I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if it was. Unfortunately, it sounds like it wasn't. :(

[Baron_Primus]

Well, lets actually find something worth talking about.

Lets be realistic: How many "Remembering SWG", "What are you gonna do the moment you log in?", "How bout those jedi?", "*LOCKED THREAD* Please Help Me!" are worth imputing on? I also very much agree with Viz about beating down the newbs (not to be confused with the very-much batter-able noobs). Ive even been to IRC and there is shockingly little chatter about how the emu is going. Please restore SWG to its 12 pre cu glory. Im not sure what else you want/need to add since you guys are the ones blazing the trail here. I thought the servers themselves would mod the content.

I, and I imagine 7/8 of the community, keep my/our eyes peeled on the front page and eagerly await some sort of "easy install" client and a stable server to actually begin playing on. With that, users would subsequently become more active in the community. Soon I hope to see WTB and WTS threads somewhere in here.

[criticalbill]

Disagree with Smusatto if you want to, but be sure to look at all his posts before you start attacking him. He's generally the most level headed person here through all the turmoil. Cut him some slack.

[Smusatto]

Disagree with Smusatto if you want to, but be sure to look at all his posts before you start attacking him. He's generally the most level headed person here through all the turmoil. Cut him some slack.

Thank you. It's nice to see someone recognizes that. I try to be level headed and neutral as much as I can, but as many of you know by now, biting my tongue isn't my strong suit.

[Bennjimin]

I think people are afraid to discuss b/c they fear banishment from the fourms and IRC that and there are so many people willing and ready to flame that players have been discussing their ideas on other forums where people don't flame as much. :(

Which is sad because some of the ideas are really good and the devs might like them too.

[Damean1]

You are so f****** unproffesional it's a f****** joke, hope you can see that now.

This is a thread where ramsey ask people what they think is wrong here and want the community too help.
You can't f****** strike em down then can you when they are saying thiere opinon. Listen to it, consider it and swallow your bollox, instead of making your thought the greatest.

f****** hell man.

This is just sad, now granted I have said the mods, and devs could use a bit more patience, but if everyone talked to me like this I would act like an ass too. I'm not saying you're 100% wrong Ioiny, I'm only pointing out that if you talk to people like this you can't expect respect in return. I will concede that Smusatto's post could have been taken as insulting, but at the same time I also agree with him that a bit of sarcasm is not unexpected if you insult him and his friends by fawning over the competition in what is basically enemy territory. The respect issue can't be a one way ticket, if we want to be treated with respect by those in charge here, we must in turn treat them with the respect we expect to receive.

Call it brown nosing, or sucking up if you choose, and I'm not one who's been here for a long time, but I lurked for a long time before I joined, and I have found Smusatto to be generally respectful intelligent and helpful. Lets not create more problems by hurling insults because we feel insulted ourselves. Constructive criticism is a good thing, but if your post is full of insults and this type of language few will take into account what you may think, and you're only going to receive as much respect as you give.

[knightprodigy]

A few observations to answer your rants...

Theres only about 20-30 ppl from my guild still interested and they monitor the progress. It's not lack of faith in the project, its lack of communication and faith in the community. With little updates directed at the community and everyone being pushed to IRC and than being banned for little to no reason, I understand 100% if people dont want to put up with the moderator's BS.

It's like this, you put 8K people in a little area expecting something they want...say food. And you throw a few scraps at them every once in a while, just to keep them alive. After so long with not seeing progress and getting the silent treatment from the people they look up to, people become disappointed, tired, irritable, lose faith and most importantly are easily pissed off.

Forum mods are supposed to lead the forum community, not kill it. I'm not pointing any fingers or putting any names out there, but a project like this with so much anticipation, will receive a lot of dumb and irritating posts and responses. You can continue to piss people off by banning, flaming and then kindly closing the thread, or you can just ignore them and let the other community members take care of holding the newb's hand, than kindly close their topic.

Yes, it gets old, yes it pisses everyone off, but take some anger management classes and let other community members help with crowd control.

As far as the IRC banwagon, put a limit on that ****. If your going to ban someone, make sure its for a good reason, and use it as a punishment system. Like 1st offenders get a 1-week ban (or something non absolute). You keep pushing the community to IRC and than you ban them for stupid ****, than you complain because you do not get as many people on IRC as you want. This is stupid, it's like shooting someone for trying to eat that scrap of food you just threw to 8K people.

To solve all of the installation questions, has anyone thought of grabbing a fraps movie of a full installation, instead of people trying to follow the nuclear instructions that people have posted and that the forums decided to devour?

How about some people willing to put their IM names in a sticky for the support page in case people are having problems? They can IM or mail someone instead of posting, getting flamed and than ultimately getting banned.

How about a few different rooms in ventrillo or teamspeak for support or general discussions? The point is, support is very poorly implemented here, and people need other means to contact the community than IRC and the forums since it has been proven that if you need help installing it, the people here feel you dont deserve to be part of the community.

Thats the message that's being sent, and that covers most of why you do not get 'participation' from your community. It's been turned into a dictatorship, and people wont put up with it. This is why sites like truegalaxies and spraticnet have a much friendlier atmosphere and more community participation.

[Damean1]

It's been turned into a dictatorship, and people wont put up with it. This is why sites like truegalaxies and spraticnet have a much friendlier atmosphere and more community participation.

I personally find it amusing that you put it like this. We're all fans of the Star Wars franchise, whether we be movie fans, gamers, comic lovers or those who read novels like myself, and Star Wars is all about dictators. Of course we won't put up with dictatorships, we've been watching, reading and playing the fall of tyrannies for years.

[Sarous]

You have to take a look at what SWG pre-CU represented. It was, in short, freedom.

The players (community) were allowed to do whatever they felt like; they were not constantly chasing quests (EQ/WoW) or forced to PvP for everything they want to craft (Eve). Players could just relax and PvE at their leasure, craft whatever they felt like, or PvP depending on their templet and mood.

Similarly, the forums were held in similar respect. SOE (despite how much I hate them) did run a decent forums in this case. They let the community post whatever they felt like so long as they weren't spamming or obsene. What we need from our forum mods currently are kindergarden recess moniters, not a prison wardens.

Unfortunatly, no matter what happens the community will never be as it was under SOE. The reason behind this is simply that we are effectivly creating a memorial stone: It may be well kept and stable, but it will not have very much new blood to keep the low end fresh and thriving.

Please do not take what I am saying as being derogitory, because I loved SWG as much as anything else and would pick up again in a heartbeat if it were finished. But it has also been 2 years since I've killed a chuba, and I at least fear that due to being a volunteer/donation oriented group, the servers may not be entierly stable or permenent.

[broly]

Well, I'm not going to read through 300+ posts to see if this was already mentioned, so sorry if it was.

for newbs, make a newb forum and make it self moderated. If any newb question is posted in another forum, just move it there. If people want to help out newbs, they can go there and help, others can ignore if they want. Let them ask the same question over and over without getting banned. Make an official place for it.

to generate interest, release an alpha version of the emu as it is right now. Let us get out feet wet on our own time with the existing limitation of the code. Once released to the masses, I'm sure you'll get tons of feedback. Not sure if you can do this or not, but perhaps make the alpha's expire after a certain date if you want to keep some control.

[LSky]

What exactly is a "normal community?" A community where people are not afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums.

[Lumby]

A community where people are not afraid to go on IRC or post on the forums.

QFE

I understand the need for the devs to focus on important things, but if you want a normal community to develop you cant silence everyone.

[LSky]

QFE

I understand the need for the devs to focus on important things, but if you want a normal community to develop you cant silence everyone.They're not silencing everyone, but when it comes to this point, something is seriously wrong.

[Ekaika]

This has turned into a witch hunt against the admin, and I think it sucks. I came here super opinionated and spoke my mind all the time, how come I never got banned? I think I know why. I spent a lot of time reading and listening before I opened my mouth, and as a result it was easy to get by. It's not easy managing a huge community, cut em some slack. (Before anyone says anything I don't know any of the staff, and I'm not in love with the emu, I'm not kissing ass).

There's some responsibility on the community's part too ya know, to get informed and try to be productive.

Now with that said, yeah there's been some stupid **** done by the staff. I don't think they knew what they were getting into with managing a huge community. Ok, so they made some mistakes. This isn't a professionally run and funded project. They're learning, this thread makes that obvious. Cut some slack.

If you all use this fuel to fan the fires and keep on about who said what and who was too mean before, we might lose the project. Just let it go and have some faith that they want to do the right thing just like you want to play the game again. It'll all work out if everyone keeps their cool.

Thanks to the community to wanting to participate and thanks to the staff for making this possible.

[LSky]

I do hope the problem will be fixed from now on. We shall see.

[akow]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

Are you joking or what? i come here and read whats going on,because i know if ask something not only with other people flame me,but the devs will too..bash the hell out of you more than and reg. poster here will..GEESH you have some balls saying that about us..most are in fear of saying anything cause your dam mods will ban the hell out of them for dumb things...
and yes i know i stand a good chance at getting banned,because i'm bashing a dev of sorts...

but i'm sick and tired of all the b.s from yall..
when yall want to grow up some, I might be back..but then again...**** this..all i see is problems left and right.. devs getting pushed out ,devs ripping off money that was gving to them to help with this project.. I see nothing ever coming out of this..CAUSE OF PISS POOR LEADERSHIP OF IT,and the blaming of everyone else but yall for problems with it...GROW UP PEOPLE!remeber no one ask anyone to do this,this is something people got to gether to do for the love of the game..i guess you forgot about that,and the devs are on a god trip...

nOW go ahead and flame me Mr.nubs ROFL

[goldcrud]

Are you joking or what? i come here and read whats going on,because i know if ask something not only with other people flame me,but the devs will too..bash the hell out of you more than and reg. poster here will..GEESH you have some balls saying that about us..most are in fear of saying anything cause your dam mods will ban the hell out of them for dumb things...
and yes i know i stand a good chance at getting banned,because i'm bashing a dev of sorts...

but i'm sick and tired of all the b.s from yall..
when yall want to grow up some, I might be back..but then again...**** this..all i see is problems left and right.. devs getting pushed out ,devs ripping off money that was gving to them to help with this project.. I see nothing ever coming out of this..CAUSE OF PISS POOR LEADERSHIP OF IT,and the blaming of everyone else but yall for problems with it...GROW UP PEOPLE!remeber no one ask anyone to do this,this is something people got to gether to do for the love of the game..i guess you forgot about that,and the devs are on a god trip...

nOW go ahead and flame me Mr.nubs ROFL
Well I'm gonna have to say the Devs are a lot better than they use to be. I haven't seen them ban anyone in a long time myself and I try to visit the forums a couple times a week. Umm Ramsey isn't really a Dev of Sorts he is a Dev here at SWGEMU if it wasn't for him we would be a lot further behind. Also if I were the devs here I would ban everyone who talks crap about me its their forums why shouldn't they be able to do what they want. But really I'd have to say they are really restraining themselfs it'd be nice if people could restrain themselfs too.

[brandonbp]

I read the forums everyday. I don't, however, usually make any posts, because 90% of what I read on the forums are people getting trashed for asking a question.

That's very true. I try to stay out of discussions for fear of the wrath of closing my thread or getting flamed for asking a "silly question."

There have been times when I looked around for the answer to a question and couldn't find it without digging around. I didn't want to ask anyone so I kept digging and, yes, finally found what I needed without posting. However, that sort of environment encourages people not to post for fear of The Flame.

I'll admit, I haven't read but the first couple of pages of this thread and don't know if it this was addressed later on here. But it seems that there are much fewer "THREAD CLOSED - READ THE FAQ" threads in the list of discussions, so maybe the board is friendlier now since this was brought up.

I just want my REAL SWG again! I can't wait for this thing to get running fulltime!

BTW, how do I log into SWGEMU? (joke :) )

[Smusatto]

Your a mod for a reason arent you? And don't bring this spare time crap up again. Really it's starting to get ****ing used. I wank on my sparetime, I don't get paid for that eather.
Im not brownnosing ****ing anh eather, I wont even go into the amount of those swgemu threads here. But anh generally took alot of things smoother then ultyma and co. I've said it before, communications between community and devs are the most important thing and that is what I wanted to say in my post.

swgemu FAILS in communication.

Wow...

Let's see. Yes, I'm a mod for a reason. What's wrong with pointing out I do this in my spare time? You expect me to act as a professional would, yet I'm not a professional. I think it's something relevant to point out. It's not my fault you failed to understand. Hate to break it to you, but there's a difference between me modding this forum and you "wanking."

You weren't brown nosing them? Let's review...

Tbh I'm really impressed by the ahn project atm. Even a ****ing dev came to our forumm registredm just to say thank you. ****ing hell =)

and

Tbh xeno,snow, mugly, tmr, ready, Ketuspringa, rouse, htx, jack, schmunzel, yosh, exca impress me.



information, generall communication > core 3

Riiight... That certainly wasn't even remotely close to brown nosing.

Who do you think you're fooling?

But anh generally took alot of things smoother then ultyma and co.

What does that mean? Lest we forget that nearly all the "draconian" ban happy ex mods from SWGEMU's previous forums are now ANH mods. Real smooth...

[gizronik]

ok this is my first post . i am not sure if this is the kinda stuff you are looking for si if noot let me know and i will find the apropreate post i am looking for a server that doesnot give jedis to everyone i liked the idea of not knowing how to become a jedi .i also liked to be able to create my own toon a little combate medic aliitle bounty hunter a little creature handler so to me the more i can personalize my own toon the better. also i liked have crafter creat elite items if i can afford a bad ass pistol then if i can find someone to create then let me pay for it. so quess i am also saying let their be drops of materials and craftings skills that differ also so one weapon smith might be able make kick ass dps and another may have killer damage . but if one guy polls all his charcter points(for lack of a better name) in weapon smithing and he creates kick ass weapons dont hurt penilize him for wanting to only be a kick ass weapon smither. ibelive that some people only want to craft and if that is the case then let em and help them as much as you help the combate toons
the one thing i enjoyed when i played swg was that it was a role playing game when it was all said and done i made great friends. even when i would royaly get my butt kicked on a bounty hunter mission i new i could buy better weapons ,better armor and i could try again. it was so awsome when i got my first kill and it took me 15 time =s to get it right and every time it was like my first hansds sweety nervous etc that is what i am looking for in your version of star wars.

[scoutsb]

I personally couldn't care less if the admins are *******s or not. That being said, I can understand why some people can view them in such a way. But would you always be in a good mood if you were trying to reverse engineer a game with some much code in it, not to mention the code there trying to remove? And as far as what I would like to see in the EMU is just as it state, a SWG pre CU. Thats it. Yes it would be nice if Jedi were implemented from the gate. But as someone has stated (cant remember who) it will be just not right away, which is cool. In closing, just let them do what they do. Make the game pre CU. The less aggravation they have to deal with, the faster and more involved they will get to it. I say thanks to the tech and code savy chaps trying to make the game the way it should have been from the start. Thank you.

[deity_shadow]

I've been here for a few weeks now, and have to say generally people are pretty helpful. I've been flamed on once about something when installing the game (hey man not my fault, no where in the guide does it say to put the file checker in the swg main folder i just put it in my debug desktop folder) but generally if you follow the guidelines in the IRC then you won't get flamed I mean that's why there is test swgemusetup and swgemu each for their own purpose, and normally if someone asks something not related to their current channel they are directed to the right one. I have seen some people get seriously flamed, but it's becoming a rarity.

And as far as progress I think they've done and incredible job. I mean even on the original pre cu servers if you got more than 300 hundred people in a single cell location like around the spaceport in theed the game would lag bad, I've seen near as many people in a single location in a city on dan' and no lag what so ever. I understand there are no pre-rendered npc and player items to slow down the server but still it says very little for SOE when a handful of guys with little to no financial backing can backwards engineer their product and then make it run smoother than they could.

Scripted NPC would be nice, the only thing I felt it really lacked were more npc drived quest, only terminal. It would flesh a lot out for scripted quest and actualy item quest rewards instead of just creds, especially in the beginning when crafters havent established themselves. On to crafting, I hear you guys have that pretty much down pat, just working on algebra scripts. I would agree to maybe specified volunteer work groups. Say a group commissioned for finding animations, and another group testing inconsistancy travel bugs and so on so forth. And an IRC channel for those specific things with a written guideline for being in that group to cut down on clutter, unnecessary talking and flaming, as well accomplishing an objective in an entertaining way while making the community feel as if they really are a part of its developement

[daedenilus]

This is my quick input.

I think there should be a questions forum.

All questions posted are anonymous, and people can answer how ever they wish. If the poster believes the question has been or hasn't been answered, the question will remain open, else it is closed.

Q/A's are then moved into an non-editable archived area which can be used for reference.

Maybe, for a bonus, in order to post in the questions area, you have to type your question in a search bar, which will search both the question area and the archived area for that question. That way, it reduces the amount of questions. Obviously there would be a moderator to watch this area.

The same could be done for suggestions area.

Hopefully this makes sense =)

[Jani_Leitquenen]

Let's see. Yes, I'm a mod for a reason. What's wrong with pointing out I do this in my spare time? You expect me to act as a professional would, yet I'm not a professional. I think it's something relevant to point out. It's not my fault you failed to understand.

I think this quote will help me explain what I meant in my previous post, cos it didn´t come out as clearly as I´d have liked to (English is my second language, and that may be the reason why). The reason why people expect you to act like a professional, smusatto, is because most people expect Moderators to be impartial and professional, whether they get paid for it or not.

Earlier, when you were telling that guy if he was joking, and praising the competence (and I understand you doing that, honestly. That was very rude of him, not to mention his later post, and it takes some patience to react like you did), while I personally didn´t care that you said so (I felt it was an ok response), I still pointed it out that you sounded unprofessional when doing it, because the truth is, it somewhat felt like that, to me, and I am sure to others, simply because of the fact that a moderator isn´t only supposed to keep things in check, but also be a sort of "public face" for the team.

Again, I don´t want to sound like I´m attacking you, cos I am not. I am merely trying to point out things that some people will not like and that will make them feel that the mods are unfriendly, or hard to deal with, on first sight (this is, after all, part of what the thread is about). First oppinions are very important, and if you didn´t know what the other guy was talking about, the one that looks bad to the uninformed may be you.

I hope that clarifies the point of my earlier post, otherwise PM me and I´ll try to explain it better (I don´t wanna derail the thread with something as anecdotical as this). Take it as my 2 cents on how you guys can improve your image, and not as in "LAWL, mods suck, u guyz dunno how 2 mod!!1!11!!" ;)

[TooCoolx14]

How about you ****ing retards finish the emu software then we'll start posting more.

Why do you expect to have a community for something that isn't even operating yet. You want more of a community? Stop wasting time making posts like this and get your ****ing ass back in the garage and back to coding. You ****s have been at this project for a good 2 years, and don't have a whole lot to show for. The basic amount of combat you do have to show is BARELY even scratching the surface of what SWG pre-cu was.

So please, suck less, and stop blaming the community for your inability to finish this thing.

[linkcenturica]

How about you ****ing retards finish the emu software then we'll start posting more.

Why do you expect to have a community for something that isn't even operating yet. You want more of a community? Stop wasting time making posts like this and get your ****ing ass back in the garage and back to coding. You ****s have been at this project for a good 2 years, and don't have a whole lot to show for. The basic amount of combat you do have to show is BARELY even scratching the surface of what SWG pre-cu was.

So please, suck less, and stop blaming the community for your inability to finish this thing.

Just what do they owe you that they MUST deliver something? Do you feel that the devs of SWGEmu owe anyone anything? If it wasn't for them, the basic hope of PreCU SWG will not even exist.

So you, sir, can either help out with what we have here, or just stfu and bring your bashing elsewhere.

These good people are doing this out of their own ****ing goodwill and passion for the SWG we had, and it just ticks me off to hear people like you who have done ZERO PERCENT to help out.


On my contribution to this suggestion, Ramsey, a segmented development area could be whats needed to get the feedback your guys need. Break the development down to smaller parts, like crafting for example. Put down what you need (stats, data, anything!) for certain aspects of crafting (resourcing, survey, experimentation, etc) and people can start contributing documents to that end.

My 2 credits, don't know if that fits what you guys have in mind/doing now. But if thats going down, I want part of it :D

[Ramsey]

How about you ****ing retards finish the emu software then we'll start posting more.

Why do you expect to have a community for something that isn't even operating yet. You want more of a community? Stop wasting time making posts like this and get your ****ing ass back in the garage and back to coding. You ****s have been at this project for a good 2 years, and don't have a whole lot to show for. The basic amount of combat you do have to show is BARELY even scratching the surface of what SWG pre-cu was.

So please, suck less, and stop blaming the community for your inability to finish this thing.


Come back when you can produce a good post.
Or better,
come back when you can produce an emulator.

[Jani_Leitquenen]

Guys, enough bashing and criticising. The devs are doing an awesome job as far as developing is concerned, and personal attacks are uncalled for. Don´t sabotage what´s trying to be accomplished with threads like this one.

[Smusatto]

I think this quote will help me explain what I meant in my previous post, cos it didn´t come out as clearly as I´d have liked to (English is my second language, and that may be the reason why). The reason why people expect you to act like a professional, smusatto, is because most people expect Moderators to be impartial and professional, whether they get paid for it or not.

Earlier, when you were telling that guy if he was joking, and praising the competence (and I understand you doing that, honestly. That was very rude of him, not to mention his later post, and it takes some patience to react like you did), while I personally didn´t care that you said so (I felt it was an ok response), I still pointed it out that you sounded unprofessional when doing it, because the truth is, it somewhat felt like that, to me, and I am sure to others, simply because of the fact that a moderator isn´t only supposed to keep things in check, but also be a sort of "public face" for the team.

Again, I don´t want to sound like I´m attacking you, cos I am not. I am merely trying to point out things that some people will not like and that will make them feel that the mods are unfriendly, or hard to deal with, on first sight (this is, after all, part of what the thread is about). First oppinions are very important, and if you didn´t know what the other guy was talking about, the one that looks bad to the uninformed may be you.

I hope that clarifies the point of my earlier post, otherwise PM me and I´ll try to explain it better (I don´t wanna derail the thread with something as anecdotical as this). Take it as my 2 cents on how you guys can improve your image, and not as in "LAWL, mods suck, u guyz dunno how 2 mod!!1!11!!" ;)

I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Your English is just fine. I don't mind some constructive criticism. I think that's what this thread was meant for.

For the most part, I do remain pretty professional. People who come here disrespecting the team don't deserve my respect imo. In the future, I won't respond. I'll just remove the posts and the trouble maker(s).

[Halifax]

I don't see any reason why you can't respond, Smusatto, you can just give the players a cookie cutter response, and ask them to come to PMs for anything else. Then locked the threads. That would be far more professional, then to just close/lock the threads, and ban the players.

Also, I have yet to see a moderator really come across as a real d-bag, a few times I felt they were doing something for their own personal reason, and not because of SWGEmu's rules. Overall, I don't think there is too much of a moderating problem.

I also would like to throw in maybe limiting newer people toposting in a certain sections before they can go into over sections. To keep people from making totally out of place threads about how excited they are about the emulator in "New Server Idea Forum."

[Smusatto]

I don't see any reason why you can't respond, Smusatto, you can just give the players a cookie cutter response, and ask them to come to PMs for anything else. Then locked the threads. That would be far more professional, then to just close/lock the threads, and ban the players.


Don't get me wrong. I do my best to avoid deleting or locking any posts. If I do, I tend to do just what you suggested. However, when somebody comes here brown nosing the competition, I have very little tolerance for them. Posts like that serve no purpose here, so I don't see the harm in removing them. If you see a problem with that, please help me understand.

[NuWind]

I apologize for not reading all 37 pages in the entirity but it just looks like it became a flameflest of responsbility and a debate of purpose and proficienty.

Be understanding, and keep an open mind.

to all those who have forgotten the fact that your here because of all this, and this is here because people are taking their free time to bring all of us SWG, doesnt permit impatience or encourage waving around a finger of blame. keep that it mind when you offer your "suggestions" we all want to see this happen, lets just try to be a little more constructive (not saying people havent been, ive seen some good threads branch of this one)...

[Merx]

I am a Pre CU Player, and have tried to get into the IRC but am at a complete loss at how to use it. I would love nothing more than to be able to play Pre-CU but last time I tried the EMU there was no combat, no skills, no nothing, just chatting.
If there is more that I can do to maybe play, and help please let me know but last I knew we needed special permissions to access the EMU test center, and I don't have that.

[Amoco]

Suggestion 1: More suggestion specific forums. Having 1 suggestion forum for EVERYTHING is absurd at this point. Everyone has suggestions,ideas, hopes etc. but it just falls into the swamp with so many other posts/flames.
Until release, have a Combat Suggestions forum. A Crafting Suggestions forum. Stress Test suggestion forum. A Jedi Suggestion forum. Of course, I've heard it mentioned the reason why this isn't so is because of moderation, which brings me to my second suggestion

Suggestion 2: Stop the moderation and have a more pronounced "Report Post" button for threads so that one moderator could go through and bam bam lock/delete/ban if they need to. Trust me, the community is going to grow so large you guys won't be able to moderate it anyhow, so you had better lay the foundation for a self-policed and organized community now.

Suggestion 3: Sticky and gather the constructive posts. You can't stop flame wars, but you can still gleam the concepts and ideas from them and put them into an orderly list.

Suggestion 4: The reliance on the clunky and ancient IRC for this massive project will soon reach the point of laughable. The only client you should expect this many people to have is a web browser and their swg game discs, beyond that you will end up pulling your hair out (if you haven't already)

[RabidDog]

Ramsey has been very patient, and understanding about the banning frustration. To this point I have been quiet, because of a number of reasons, and some you have named:
1. Getting flamed.
2. I had herd of strict banning.
3. Was not sure if I would be heard.

These are just a few of the issues that have kept me silent, but as I read all 38 pages of post ig ot disgusted. We as a community need to stop with blame, and holding past grudges. It is obvious by Ramseys posts the devs are acknowledging prior mistakes, and now asking for the community to help. There have been some good ideas, and I have a back ground in advertising, but the one most powerful form of advertising has escaped everyones grasp. approx. 70% of products in the current market are originally bought NOT by TV, fliers, radio, or any other costly form of advertising. Most of those products are bought by WORD OF MOUTH, and that is still the most successful.

Now I know all, or at least most of you had friends when you played SWG, and that most of you had guildies, or community friends that you may have gotten email addresses from. Now, if you think about it, if we have 8000 members, and if every member had 5 email addresses to friends that you started to lose touch with. If you take the time of 15 minutes to write and send a nice email, giving information about the SWGEmu, and how it will be bringing back the game the loved. We as a community just made an 40,000 person, direct advertisement. Remember, 90% of all emails that are personalized, by recognizable email addresses, are read as long as they do not have FWD in the front.

This may not be the best way to reach people on a immediate, large scale. However, if we get 50% of those 40,000, and they each send 5 emails, now we have touched 100,000. This can cascade for a long time, and have a snowball effect. This can just kick off an advertising push, to inform people about the SWGEmu.

This community will succeed, or fail with us together, not because of the devs, and the devs wont succeed without our best effort to help.

Thank you
Rabid

[blacky]

My personal opinion (well, why i stopped being interested) is when the server went closed. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with closed source (i think i was "shihan" back on the old forums but i cant remember). I submitted one patch for the previous OSS core. But thats not why i'm no longer an active member.

I still stop by to see how its progressing and for me alot of what im interested in the hackability of the thing which is hard to explain so i'll give an example from when dolserver hit the streets.

When dolserver first came out I was very keen to try it for all the reasons anyone likes using server emu's. But its also something you can be actively involved in (unlike its sister project coad). The first thing I did when the code was good enough to login to was code up a auction merchant in its internal scripting language. That led to other things like the developer adding new hooks in the scripting language and so forth. In short, i was able to participate (as in have an impact on the project) without being an active dev for the project and still actually coding (now and then) for it.

I guess what im saying in is its hard to comment on vapourware (not that this is entirely vapourware, but its something the "users" really cant touch). The question "What do you want to be able to do in the scriptable npc's" is hard to answer because the answer is (in broad terms) obvious and hard to define in finer detail without actually seeing how coding an NPC would be like.

Lets say you coded the scripting engine such that it had 4 hooks:
1) when someone talks to it
2) when someone attacks it
3) when someone comes within a certain range
4) when someone leaves a certain range
Obviously this is very limited, but its a starting point, so users downloaded the source, get it running, code an npc and then find "ahh, we need some state information because this guys giving a multi-part quest".

Again, thats only a small example (of one particular component of swgemu) but it illustrates what im trying to get at and im sure im not the only one who feels that way.

Again, im not saying SWGEMU should be OSS, im just saying its the reason i personally have stopped hanging around (which is probably a good thing anyways ;))

[Jonny_Sunset]

in a distant future i'd really love if our character could jump and eventualy /forcejump. This may be impossible then again its only a suggestion!!!

[fenderbean]

okay now I know why people are complaining, i just got banned from mirc for no reason theres some auto ban if u ask about certain things. no wonder everyone is scared to talk. gssssh and the rude remarks that come with the ban message are uncalled for :mad:

[Azhar]

<Fenderbean> is server up or down, so I dont have to join the test room
<Fedaykin> did you double click it Eusaet? *rolls*
<LSky`> i never had problems with tre files :/
<Eusaet> yes -.-
*** Fenderbean has quit IRC (User has been permanently banned from SWGEMU (no reason))

sounds to me like there was plenty of reasons, Fender. If you read the topic and rules, you would know that you're not supposed to ask about the server in the #swgemu channel.

It only takes 2 seconds to join the #test channel and look at the topic yourself. You don't even have to join the channel either. You could've just typed /topic #test to see.

Your laziness does not make it someone else's fault for your problem.

[pooga]

I got banned on IRC, because I posted EPIC POST on a Racial Sterotype post.

[LordSniper]

we're on Irc, and we discuss topics here, but some of us are just waiting to see some results first.

just what i was going to say, some of us want to see results which have been happening.

[Revan Shan]

Ask yourself. What would a cu player like me be looking for: lets see... the game its excellent but you have to pay x$/moth. FREE Galaxies! Thas what people should be most looking forward. Tell your friends that emu is free and will log out of cu to play swgemu's precu.

[Azhar]

Ask yourself. What would a cu player like me be looking for: lets see... the game its excellent but you have to pay x$/moth. FREE Galaxies! Thas what people should be most looking forward. Tell your friends that emu is free and will log out of cu to play swgemu's precu.


CU doesn't exist anymore either. SOE employs the NGE, not the CU. But anyways, I disagree on this idea. Advertising is great, but lets not take pot shots at SOE. One of the many reasons SWGEmu is legal is because SOE doesn't run the game anymore (pre-CU) and thus we're not stealing their customer base. Lets not appear that we're trying to do that regardless.

[fenderbean]

azhar thats stupid, there should be no reason u cant ask a simple question! The hole point to this thread was to ask people to ask questions. Why would u ban them for asking a simple yes or no question. Your just proving mine and everyone elses point. Most of us left SOE for this kind of sensorship. Its a chat room you should be able to chat. I can understand why u wouldnt want chatting in the test room since its mainly for developement, but the general chat room in my opinion is for that very reason. If its such a but hurt topic why not add the online/offline indicator to the main room, but hey what do I know right. Why make things hard when they dont have to be?

[Azhar]

There IS an online/offline indicator.

You could argue that YOU want to be in, say, #swgcommunity channel and then complain theres no online/offline indicator THERE.

Nobody has to follow YOU around. You want to play the game, then YOU have to click your own buttons. The world doesn't revolve around you.

There are legit complaints here, and there are irrational complaints. Lets not carry complaints too far.

[Smusatto]

azhar thats stupid, there should be no reason u cant ask a simple question! The hole point to this thread was to ask people to ask questions. Why would u ban them for asking a simple yes or no question. Your just proving mine and everyone elses point. Most of us left SOE for this kind of sensorship. Its a chat room you should be able to chat. I can understand why u wouldnt want chatting in the test room since its mainly for developement, but the general chat room in my opinion is for that very reason. If its such a but hurt topic why not add the online/offline indicator to the main room, but hey what do I know right. Why make things hard when they dont have to be?

Typing /join #test is hard for you?

Hate to break it to you, but it's not to everyone else. You can only put so many characters in the topic of a channel. The test channel is there for a reason. Why not use it?

But anyways, I disagree on this idea. Advertising is great, but lets not take pot shots at SOE. One of the many reasons SWGEmu is legal is because SOE doesn't run the game anymore (pre-CU) and thus we're not stealing their customer base. Lets not appear that we're trying to do that regardless.

I think this poll (http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2800) shows people like revan are few and far between and the vast majority just wants to play pre CU again.

There IS an online/offline indicator.

You could argue that YOU want to be in, say, #swgcommunity channel and then complain theres no online/offline indicator THERE.

Nobody has to follow YOU around. You want to play the game, then YOU have to click your own buttons. The world doesn't revolve around you.

There are legit complaints here, and there are irrational complaints. Lets not carry complaints too far.

I couldn't agree more. I suspect some of the people who're being irrational know they are. They just want to see what they can get away with. They're getting upset when they find out they can't get away with it. I've seen plenty of people say they got banned for "no reason" when they know they did something to get banned. I ask everyone, so that we may focus on the legit complaints better, please chill with the irrational ones.

Suggestion 1: More suggestion specific forums. Having 1 suggestion forum for EVERYTHING is absurd at this point. Everyone has suggestions,ideas, hopes etc. but it just falls into the swamp with so many other posts/flames.
Until release, have a Combat Suggestions forum. A Crafting Suggestions forum. Stress Test suggestion forum. A Jedi Suggestion forum. Of course, I've heard it mentioned the reason why this isn't so is because of moderation, which brings me to my second suggestion

Suggestion 2: Stop the moderation and have a more pronounced "Report Post" button for threads so that one moderator could go through and bam bam lock/delete/ban if they need to. Trust me, the community is going to grow so large you guys won't be able to moderate it anyhow, so you had better lay the foundation for a self-policed and organized community now.



I wish it were that easy. Unfortunately, a lot of people mistake the report button for the quote button. Most of the reports I read are people thinking they're responding to a post, but they clicked report by mistake and sent us their reply. If we only relied on that, it would be pretty tedious to sift through all of them for the real reports. Not worth the trouble imo.

Suggestion 3: Sticky and gather the constructive posts. You can't stop flame wars, but you can still gleam the concepts and ideas from them and put them into an orderly list.


http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2365


Suggestion 4: The reliance on the clunky and ancient IRC for this massive project will soon reach the point of laughable. The only client you should expect this many people to have is a web browser and their swg game discs, beyond that you will end up pulling your hair out (if you haven't already)

You could be right. At this point in time, the devs feel it's best that people who're testing be on IRC in the #test channel. This helps them to communicate better with the testers. I know it sucks to have to go through the trouble, but it's really not that much trouble. IRC isn't that complicated. We have a forum (http://www.swgemu.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8) and a good guide (http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2467) to help people with it. Pretty much, don't knock it before you try it.

[fenderbean]

its not hard to type, i just think u should not get banned for asking a simple yes or no question. If I would have know it was going to ban I would just went and looked myself. I just downloaded mirc yesterday and thought i would try it out, but hey if the people running the show want to actually put effort into this kind of stuff instead of the game, hey what ever, like I said what do i know right. I will step away from this thread letting you guys do your thing. :eek:

[TrueProphecy22]

The psudo jedi combat that's on core 3 right now just slays me. I hope it's just temporary...

It's like being stuck half as a jedi and half as whatever profession you're fighting as... which turns all combat into "Force Management" bouts.

[admax88]

Jesus this thread is long.:)

I've noticed a lot of people mentioning how difficult it to get irc working for them.

I think it would be helpful if a web based IRC client were hosted on swgemu.com. Something like EIRC (http://eirc.sourceforge.net/) would definently make it easier for IRC newbies to get connected.

[Gaius_Kavadas]

For FireFox users the following add-on works great in regards to IRC:

ChatZilla (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/16)

[Nikkia]

I think there's a fairly simple solution to people getting flamed for questions: just stop flaming them. If someone asks a question that you think is stupid, just ignore the person. If it's on the forums, don't reply. If it's in IRC, act like they didn't say anything. If someone does feel like answering, they will and the newbie in question will get their answer. If no one replies, it's likely this person will look elsewhere for the answer.

This practice is very easy to implement in IRC, although it does have the potential to cause some clutter in the forums. If people rated threads asking questions based on how good they think the question is, developers might be able to save time sifting through useless questions on the forums and instead just look at the highly-rated ones; ones that a large number of people obviously don't know the answer to since the rating is high. Kind-hearted community members could take it upon themselves to answer the lowly-rated ones.

[goldcrud]

Jesus this thread is long.:)

I've noticed a lot of people mentioning how difficult it to get irc working for them.

I think it would be helpful if a web based IRC client were hosted on swgemu.com. Something like EIRC (http://eirc.sourceforge.net/) would definently make it easier for IRC newbies to get connected.
Yeah that would be good only problem is how do the mods ban someone if they are spamming or doing something worthy of banning. I ask that because when you connect to IRC through a browser it doesn't show the mods your IP it shows the website your connecting to it through. Bassically its impossible to block/ban people if they are abusing chat privledges.

[MyPlague]

I have to admit that i tried NGE only for a weeka go...

Only thing that i liked there was that player could put up a bounty for his killer in PvP... That system i would like to see in Emu too. Or even bigger bounty hunting wehere players are paid for hunting other players like smuglers etc...

Problem is not everyone want to take part for PvP so i think you should be take part showmhow to be part of that system.. like accepting BH missions or such...

More Pvp... More Roleplay

[Hero164]

Totally agree that players should be able to put bounties on anyone and that people with cantinas should be able to create entertainer missions for them to comae and dance/play at specified times and places.

[rrighteous]

I've been a total lurker here. I'm really excited about what the swgemu team is doing here - I can't wait until I can play pre-cu again. I'm very glad the direction is to design game mechanics and features as close to pre-cu as possible. I'll be very interested to see how much control individual server owners have over quests/content/mobs/loot tables etc. I don't have much to contribute at the moment other than I'm really looking forward to bringing my toons back to life in a very fun game that sony ruined.

Rock On!
Robert the Righteous
Aka Skrawn-Key Frondo on Bria

[vaselsekta]

i am very excited and i can't wait! it's like YES!!!!!

[Bosoa]

I'd like to know why I"m suddenly perma-banned from IRC? I've been away from chat for a few days, just left my IRC client running so I could browse the logs later and to my suprise I find I'm banned. WTF??

[u4ea]

for those that werent interested in pvp it was easy, i dont remember what stage of galaxies it was but it was the whole Combatant/Special Forces status, combatant being PVE and SF being PVP... absolutely perfect. and as for jedi being hunted... well that was just fking awesome now wasnt it. i still remember riding up to a jedi i had the bounty of when he was grouped, blowing him to hell and listening to his whole group FREAK OUT at me. good times, entirely too funny

[Knuckles]

for those that werent interested in pvp it was easy, i dont remember what stage of galaxies it was but it was the whole Combatant/Special Forces status, combatant being PVE and SF being PVP... absolutely perfect. and as for jedi being hunted... well that was just fking awesome now wasnt it. i still remember riding up to a jedi i had the bounty of when he was grouped, blowing him to hell and listening to his whole group FREAK OUT at me. good times, entirely too funny

TEF is necessary for a fun experience. Combatant/Special Forces was just retarded crap

[Karrion]

NOTE:
What do you think the SWGEmu staff can do to better deal with new people or a flow of like 100 questions a day?


Well what i have noticed happens is you will come into the forum and answer questions in this or that thread. These posts that you make often hold valuable information that i notice gets asked for time and time again.

I seen a suggestion once that your posts should be added to some kind of FAQ, this might not be a bad idea. If one person asks a question, it is inevitable that someone else will ask the same question a month later and your original answer will have been lost in the sea of posts.. So possibly creating a "Ramsey Quotes" section might be useful, creating some sort of useful central location for important information.

Ok now that i have scanned through all the pages of this thread. The problem is quite obvious, people tend to think that they are the most important person in the universe therefore thier questions must be answered and if it isn't answered withing a very short time then the person they are asking is just a jerk. The thought never dawns on these people that the person they are asking the question of might have answered that same very question a million times over the past 2 years and if they took the time to look around before asking they might find thier question has been answered. People do not seem to take in to account that the SWGEMU Team is a group of private individuals who are trying to recreate the Pre-cu Swg, and that the people demanding these answers are not paying for the work that is being done and really do not deserve an answer, and that any information given is only done so by the SWGEMU Teams own good will. To top it off im willing to bet that alot of these people have never held a customer service job in thier life and would have no clue how it feels to be asked the same stupid question over and over again even though the answer is sitting in front of thier face.

Honestly, you can't really blame any of the SWGEMU Team for having a short fuse. Personally if i were them with the way the community acts in general about this project i would give up, throw the project into the perverbial trash and incinerate it and never look back. As so far it's been a pretty thankless task for them.... The community in general needs a big attitude adjustment and instead of jumping all over the swgemu team every time one of them gets a little short, give them a little understanding and patience and encouragement instead. In otherwords if the community wants the Devs/mods to respond better then the community needs to give them a little more respect.

Ramsey, honestly man, you seem to have the patience of a saint, i have no idea how you manage to keep your cool most of the time.

[armagedda]

Ok since Ramsey and Ultyma stated the obvious in the IRC (we need donations). This might be redundant, but we need a solution. It might be easier said than done but I think we have to somehow convince other "emu" community members to donate to this project rather than to servers that don't even exist. I think the reason for this huge problem is because people are just ignorant, not stupid, they just don't know what they're money is going towards. I think if they understood that they're money isn't going to the right person we could amass the money we need to run this server.

[Azhar]

Two words just popped in my mind when I was driving home from the train station: Dev Tracker.

[admax88]

Ok since Ramsey and Ultyma stated the obvious in the IRC (we need donations). This might be redundant, but we need a solution. It might be easier said than done but I think we have to somehow convince other "emu" community members to donate to this project rather than to servers that don't even exist. I think the reason for this huge problem is because people are just ignorant, not stupid, they just don't know what they're money is going towards. I think if they understood that they're money isn't going to the right person we could amass the money we need to run this server.

I think that people are a little reluctant to donate after the fiasco of some of the donation money being stolen. Unless the community can be guaranteed that their money is going to be used for the development of the emulator donations may be hard to come by. It would also help if it was clear what the donation money was being spent on. People like to know where they're money is going.

[Azhar]

Would the devs/mods mind explaining this little mood swing of theirs?

Oh, and, i didn't just type this up. Observe Here (http://truegalaxies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5573)

*is not afraid of the ban/delete post stick*

I think you're misunderstanding, Litintha. Ramsey and Ultyma are trying to say that you're wasting donation money on OTHER servers (ie: True Galaxies, Exiled, Lowca, and so on) for something that doesn't exist. They weren't talking about the Chicago.SWGEmu test center. It's illogical to pay someone else for efforts that SWGEmu is doing.

It's like paying McDonalds and leave without ordering anything, and then going to Burger King and demand a Whopper because you've already paid McDonalds.

Please understand that I'm not berating server administrators for their efforts in wanting to bring servers to the community. We all appreciate it. But it's simply far too early for that. Right now, the priority lies in keeping the test center running so we could continue development.

[armagedda]

I think you're misunderstanding, Litintha. Ramsey and Ultyma are trying to say that you're wasting donation money on OTHER servers (ie: True Galaxies, Exiled, Lowca, and so on) for something that doesn't exist. They weren't talking about the Chicago.SWGEmu test center. It's illogical to pay someone else for efforts that SWGEmu is doing.

It's like paying McDonalds and leave without ordering anything, and then going to Burger King and demand a Whopper because you've already paid McDonalds.

Please understand that I'm not berating server administrators for their efforts in wanting to bring servers to the community. We all appreciate it. But it's simply far too early for that. Right now, the priority lies in keeping the test center running so we could continue development.

Quoted for emphasis
well put, and you can think of it as a threat, but its true, if people dont put the money in the right place this could be postponed for a much longer period, if not go to **** completely

[vaselsekta]

i think we all need to set aside our differences and work together...

[na85]

Obviously donating to SWGemu would be more beneficial than donating to a specific server at this stage of the game. Donating to specific servers seems silly, IMO

The devs need funds to keep the TC server up and running.

[Bonafide]

Im not in the mood for reading 44 pages, so I will just give you my 2cents. Im sure what Im saying has been said before in this thread.

I dont participate on these forums due to the sheer hostility I feel coming from other people. Not only other members, but moderators and developers, the people who are suppost to act professional and inpartial, regardless of if they are employed or are doing it in their spare time. I have to worry about anything I would write here, I see tons of flaming going on.

Also there is no regular updates to keep people intrested. Even 1 paragraph a week would maybe be enough, just saying whats being worked on. Perhaps even a moderated Q&A session with a couple of devs on IRC advertised before hand so people know its going to happen. Im also not a fan of the people who think they are unofficial moderators.

[Khamal Jolstien]

What I do not understand is why in the hell are we so divided on stuff like this? We're all after the same means, why not work together? So what, some people don't like each other, they'll get over it.

Bottom line is we all dislike the NGE more, so why not work on one project, or at least share notes on some of the stuff.

As for a helpful suggestion.

Why not partner up with an existing server community. If it's the servers getting the money, then do a trade off. The server community lets you use their server for testing, and they get first dibs on participation during the tests.

Everyone wins, and you pull in more community support. I'm sure more than one server would clamor for such an opportunity, and the dev team can simply worry about development, and not about how to afford a server.

[na85]

What I do not understand is why in the hell are we so divided on stuff like this? We're all after the same means, why not work together? So what, some people don't like each other, they'll get over it.

Bottom line is we all dislike the NGE more, so why not work on one project, or at least share notes on some of the stuff.

As for a helpful suggestion.

Why not partner up with an existing server community. If it's the servers getting the money, then do a trade off. The server community lets you use their server for testing, and they get first dibs on participation during the tests.

Everyone wins, and you pull in more community support. I'm sure more than one server would clamor for such an opportunity, and the dev team can simply worry about development, and not about how to afford a server.

I like this idea.

[Smusatto]

Please stop discussing the other team. That's not what this thread is for.

[StringLack]

It's like this.... i used to be very active on IRC especially... but with time i just had enough of that , was really borring and i stopped coming
sometimes i come in just to read if theres something new on the forums and maybe respond...

[darkfury]

yea but i know most of us probably have friends that arent big forum users or people that are just reading the forums and not signing up that are awaiting the game to release so we can all play.

[Namik]

People are frustrated with the amount of time. initial timetables told them it would come out 9 months ago. the emotion has died down. They have little access to tangible things that will get them into the emu. most people are registered and are waiting.

[na85]

I wouldn't say I'm frustrated. I can appreciate the time it would take to code and debug a project of this magnitude.

[EVILJUDE]

as far as I know, there has never been time tables, just things that need to be worked on. anyt time tables have been estimates of the community. the devs have said before that they would not release time tables or ETA's due to people wanting them to keep thier word. it comes out when it comes out. I don't understand this frustration people have.

[possiblyinsane87]

well i am not stressed about it, i am really looking forward to play on pre cu again. i talk to all of my friends about it, they are all planning on playing it as soon as it comes out, but i don't know what i could ad to the community, i typically log in a few times a week and just read peoples posts to see whats going on.

i do agree with the person that said we would probably get more chat going on if it was in game, say if you made like THEED and THEED only accessible, like walled it off so you couldn't leave THEED, and made it easy to log on to that all the time, i think that people would spend more time just goofing around there, i know i used to waste so much time just talking to people in THEED, MOS EISLEY, and MINING OUTPOST.

just my thoughts =)

[amoneymoore]

its already been said, multiple times, but id like to reiderate(?) it. ive only been around on the forums for a few months and im already getting bored with the discussions. there is only so much we can discuss about changes and suggestions to swg without sounding like broken records. jedi, pvp, crafting, gcw, space, bla bla bla. its really all quite trivial until the community who supports you is actually given something to play, then discuss. right now we are just hypothesizing and imagining situations. it only fosters contempt, confusion, and anxiety when we are asked to discuss changes to -insert aspect of swg- before it is even finished coding or whatever the hell it is you have to do to make it playable, and tested by the community. (i admit i know nothing about computers other then de can make sum coo vi-dee-o gaamess, so i have the upmost respect for what you are all doing, i loved pre-cu, cant tell you how many days i wasted playing the game)

[RabidDog]

I think if some of the ideas in this forum are followed up with, there should be a rise in donations. If the community sees they are listened to, then I would say the community should be will to make donations with out hassel. Think about:

8000 commnity members
x5 dollars each a month
---------
40,000$ To get these devs a chance to get this game running.

Some may donate more, but the point is. WE NEED TO BE A COMMUNITY, and that does not mean a select 100 or so that really care to help out, and the other 7900 sitting and waiting to reep the benfits. Make the devs feel appreciated for taking THEIR time, to give us back a game we love.

I am not gunna make this a Susan Struthers telethon, just a general annoucement.

[Smannesman]

Well basically they're making the emu because they want to, not because they love us so much.
But I'm sure a lot of people in the 'community' would donate if it was actually needed to keep the project going (new server, software, etc).

[lei]

It doesnt really look as if you want all of the community to do anything.
Go on IRC you say. All time I went on IRC there has been stupid off-topic joking or other obscure talk. I have no time to hang around 24x7 there to occasionally grab some info for test schedule or anything.

If you really want the community to take part - run a test for a week or two, announce when and how to take part a week before and tell the ppl what you want them to test and where you want the response.

just my 2 cent.

[damostmorbid]

I disagree, people have to speculate on what they want to see now, while they're coding it so they can get ideas on how to code the thing better so anything people want to see in mods etc, wont be impossible later.

[Unsoundhero]

Well ethier way, I think I speak for all of us when all we want is pre-cu back and it doesnt take going into IRC everyday to know that. Also, even when I do go in IRC all I see is people getting banned for various reasons.

[BlazeHoliday]

after reading alot of things over the past few days on this topic, i think we just need to be kept up to date on fixes and breakthroughs... even if they are minor. you guys get a major update every month or longer and we get alot of buzz alot of speculation and alot of hope, then boom. NOTHING. If we are up to date all the time we have more things to look forward to and post about when we log in.

my 2 credits :P

[Nabodia]

I'm kinda late to this topic, thanks to the link from the guys at Sunrunner Vets :)

Anyway, i'm going to be perfectly honest the average person like me of course really just wants an up and working swgemu. I really don't care whats going on over here until everything is working and thats the sentiment of alot of people I know that are interested in playing.

So it comes down to this you'll have a more active community when you all finally get things up and running. :)

Good day :)

[LSky]

So it comes down to this you'll have a more active community when you all finally get things up and running. :)QFE, it has always been this way. Don't expect things to be different here.

[mikalar]

My 2 credits worth:

I've been following the Emu and will continue to do so, so long as I don't get banned. I was very excited in the early days and even contributed (>$100) to the cause only to see the funds walk away.

I've volunteered several times to help in coding projects as I have over 20 years c/C++ experience doing client/server coding and mostly received heckles from shall we say less than a professional crowd.

I can appreciate how much work there is to do and the amount of time its going to take to get there. If it is to be just a PVP version of SWG then its probably pretty close but to add in crafting, entertaining, bazaars, mission terms, creature spawns, creature taming, fishing, etc. so its more palatable to a broader audience, its a long way off.

I just decided that I'm too old for the nonsense from a few who think they have it all (no one in particular in mind).

I don't have the wherewithall to monitor IRC especially from work and when I get home I generally have other things to do.

So I'll watch for awhile and hope for the best ;)

[jonaku]

Here are some thoughts on why your community building efforts are not succeeding to the degree you would like:
-- Your FAQs rudely tell noobs to read FAQs before asking stupid noob questions
-- Your FAQs rudely convey that the forum mods are ban happy and will quickly ban anyone asking a stupid noob question or being subjectively disruptive
-- Noobs are scared of IRC, which is a 1980s technology that no one except Linux freaks use
-- Your admins and mods say antagonistic things to forum participants, it makes this forum look unprofessional, fly-by-night and hostile
-- You don't provide systematic and easy to find info on what SWGemu is and how it's progressing

Some suggestions:
-- Create a "newbie yard" forum (like EQ2)
-- Improve your FAQ materials in tone and substantive quality
-- Provide weekly updates on progress
-- Use a gentler touch as a mod and discourage unprofessional behavior from mods/admins when posting
-- Consider writing an article about yourselves on wiki
-- You should provide links to SWGemu affiliated server sites and get them to link back to you
-- Get rid of IRC or stop relying on it so strongly and shift those IRC efforts back to the forum
-- Make the forum more prominently displayed and advertised on the homepage of swgemu.com
-- Let other community members answer noob questions for you
-- Create more or different forum topics than the ones you currently have
-- Have a lawyer address for you the legality of your work so that people stop questioning it
-- Provide more videos
-- Get those videos onto youtube and googlevideo and let people download high quality videos
-- Have weekly screenshots for a screenshot gallery
-- Have community polls on weekly basis
-- Publish interviews with your devs on your website (who are they? what do they enjoy about swgemu dev work? what are the challenges?)
-- Reach out to the game magazines and game websites and invite them to do articles about you and your work
-- Make easier-to-find and easier-to-understand FAQ materials on how noobs can download, install and use the SWGemu client
-- Maybe a have "noob" section of your website
-- Do some guerilla marketing of SWGemu on other community forums (like Fires of Heaven, EVE, Stratics, MMORPG, silkyvenom etc.)

I love you guys and hope very much that you succeed. I hope you find some of the above suggestions helpful.

[Jordashebasics]

In preparation for the NPC implementation.... whenever that may come -
If we had the means of preparing a chunk of data to be included in that, I think that'd give something for the community to organize.
I'm not sure what would be included, but there would have to be tables of dialogue to trigger missions. If we get involved in creating test data for you, that could help foster a community feel.

[bryce-l]

i was following rules on irc. when over to a friends house idleing in irc one day came back and was perma banned :confused: sorry

[LSky]

-- Provide more videos
-- Get those videos onto youtube and googlevideo and let people download high quality videos
.
http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344

[Xiox]

This thread would've been more fun if Ultyma posted it.. give you more of something to throw at, I actually want to hear his opinion on how 'well' this is progressing. btw posting a Q&A doesn't exactly fix everything, it answers questions in more of a vague perception. Last time I could recall you said you had things working but you didn't specify if it was the dummy server or the emu. A Q&A doesn't fix it at all, presenting your accomplishments to the point where they're even 50% to 100% working and showing proof of it is what will get people talking. Every 2 or 3 months we end up finding a new video on youtube where you guys run some little test we have no idea about, and it presents nothing.. I mean.. what the hell? I think the main issue is because you don't present it well enough for people to even have faith in what you're doing.

[oalarreni]

IMO My friends and i are starting to get burnt out on the hole emu thing you've been working on this forever i knows it time consuming but like when you do stress test on the new core3 i can't tell a diffrence between it ond the first one yet yall talk about all the progress made but can see nothing changed on the test server maybe try puting some of those changes on the core 3 TC the show some progress sorry don't post much but my friends and I work 6 days a week 12 hours a night not must time for reading and talking on fourms just my 2 cents

[Zaff]

*** Fenderbean has quit IRC (User has been permanently banned from SWGEMU (no reason))

sounds to me like there was plenty of reasons, Fender. If you read the topic and rules, you would know that you're not supposed to ask about the server in the #swgemu channel.

It only takes 2 seconds to join the #test channel and look at the topic yourself. You don't even have to join the channel either. You could've just typed /topic #test to see.

Your laziness does not make it someone else's fault for your problem.

As far as banning people for breaking the rules goes, I agree. But it says, "permanently banned." I've had plenty of conversations with my wife, when she was moderating IRC for COHemu off and on, and they would just kick people from the channel. They only put an actual ban on them if they were being repeat offenders. And they did/do have problems with most of the same questions we have here.

[LSky]

This thread would've been more fun if Ultyma posted it.. give you more of something to throw at, I actually want to hear his opinion on how 'well' this is progressing. btw posting a Q&A doesn't exactly fix everything, it answers questions in more of a vague perception. Last time I could recall you said you had things working but you didn't specify if it was the dummy server or the emu. A Q&A doesn't fix it at all, presenting your accomplishments to the point where they're even 50% to 100% working and showing proof of it is what will get people talking. Every 2 or 3 months we end up finding a new video on youtube where you guys run some little test we have no idea about, and it presents nothing.. I mean.. what the hell? I think the main issue is because you don't present it well enough for people to even have faith in what you're doing.The Q&A is a start though.

[Sharkz]

As far as banning people for breaking the rules goes, I agree. But it says, "permanently banned." I've had plenty of conversations with my wife, when she was moderating IRC for COHemu off and on, and they would just kick people from the channel. They only put an actual ban on them if they were being repeat offenders. And they did/do have problems with most of the same questions we have here.

I think the permaban is very extreme. More simpler a ban for 2 days gives them a chance to use the forums to find the information they need

[Ouslo]

Well, I just got banned for saying 'Thats harsh...' Because another guy got banned for asking what JTL stood for. :\

[Akelei]

Guess results vary... so far i've seen people getting kicked / banned for virtually nothing, and other times i have seen people getting let off even though they are obviously being abusive.

[Smusatto]

Most of the time it says permanent ban, it's not really permanent. That's just the default system message for when somebody is banned from the server, rather than the channel. The ban list is usually cleared every few days, save for a few certain people who actually do have a permanent ban.

[Omnido]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.
Well, there are several reasons.

Many members are playing other games/MMO's that are fully functional.
Many members are burnt out on feedback due to having invested (for some of us years) that time with SOE, only to observe their dismissal and a-typical F-U corperate attitude. That said, if SWEmu is a community driven, founded, and sponsored project, one can logically conclude that those involved should already understand, possess, and support the same if not exact ideals of the former disgruntled SWG community. Therefore rehashing the old stuff shouldnt be required.
Since SWGEmu is no longer open source, those of the community whom are capable and/or would desire to contribute cannot, other than via donations.



SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.
They are willing Ramsey, and excited.
But look at it from their perspective.
SWGEmu is being developed by the underdog; intelligent gamers who had enough of SOE's bull****, and decided to force decisive action by recreating the former state of the game.
While this is noble, applauded, and supported by those who share the same outlook, there isnt much else to contribute which hasnt already been said.
I'd suspect and even expect those on the SWGEmu dev team to already possess plenty of foresight and hindsight with relation to this project, being so adamant and compelled to recreate the game prior to its changes.

[Balthz]

i wont donate until i get a solid eta its just were i stand. i think the reason you dont see a TON of community activity is that people just want old precu they dont really care how long it takes caus when it comes out there gonna play it no matter who it comes from.

[Nakedandfearless]

I'll tell you how I feel about this community.

When new people show up and ask a question they get thier heads ripped off by other members that think they are a somebody.

It's a joke almost to post anymore. Too many *****s try thier best to insult the other guy just to look "cool" or whatever.

Look on other sites, it's not just me that feels this way.

But I am willing to bet you'll see more than 8k people after the EMU is done.

[Zaff]

Most of the time it says permanent ban, it's not really permanent. That's just the default system message for when somebody is banned from the server, rather than the channel. The ban list is usually cleared every few days, save for a few certain people who actually do have a permanent ban.

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Sharkz]

Most of the time it says permanent ban, it's not really permanent. That's just the default system message for when somebody is banned from the server, rather than the channel. The ban list is usually cleared every few days, save for a few certain people who actually do have a permanent ban.

AH. You see when they see the word Perma Ban people won't try and get back on and you've lost them for good.

[SunZU]

But I am willing to bet you'll see more than 8k people after the EMU is done.
Ramsey, Ultyma and the rest of emu team -

While we all love what you're doing, the reality is that everyone is waiting for a completed product before they come out of the wood work. I know hundreds of players who all play WoW at the moment who have no desire to come here and post, yet eagerly always ask those of us who do what the current status of the emu is. I can't phrase it better than "If you build it, they will come". Till then, may the best emu dev team win. Whoever completes it first, will definetely have all the fame and glory.

There is a lot of great suggestions in here, take the time to read them if you want but I wouldn't bother and get side tracked. You'll never be able to make everyone in here and beyond happy enough, till you finish the emu. It seems to me like the kiddies are complaining about people being rude - as they always did back when they played as well, and the cool kids don't give a **** and want the emu completed and working properly - as they always did back when they played too. So you see, that's the natural cycle of things and will continue till your product is complete. In the end, a finished product will make everyone happy and 8k will be a joke of a figure in here if you guys finish first and the world finds out.

[admax88]

Whoever completes it first, will definetely have all the fame and glory.

I believe all the fame and glory will go to whoever completes it better. It doesn't matter who makes the first emulator, it matters who makes the better one.

I don't give a crap who makes it first. I'd rather see the teams work together to get the emu out there sooner and better, rather then have everyone waving their e-peens around, stealing code, *****ing about stolen code, etc, just because they want to be the first team to make the emulator.

[Sharkz]

It seems to me like the kiddies are complaining about people being rude - as they always did back when they played as well, and the cool kids don't give a **** and want the emu completed and working properly

ROFL


Oh and yeah. The Team that gets all the Fame and Glory is the Team that listens to its community. Or do you forget why you left SWG in the first place lol.

[sicarim]

The main reason i'm not here everyday: lack of updates. It'd be nice if you could just keep us updated every few days with what exactly you're working on. and we'll throw out suggestions.

[na85]

I believe all the fame and glory will go to whoever completes it better. It doesn't matter who makes the first emulator, it matters who makes the better one.

I don't give a crap who makes it first. I'd rather see the teams work together to get the emu out there sooner and better, rather then have everyone waving their e-peens around, stealing code, *****ing about stolen code, etc, just because they want to be the first team to make the emulator.

QFT

Anyone here play ultima online on an emulated server? The SphereServer team came out with the first emulator, and theirs is now considered garbage when compared to RunUO which is fast, stable, reliable, and open source.

Nobody goes "Oh man, yeah RunUO is sick, but MAN, those Sphere guys are teh l33t cause they got it out first"

[Ghostwolf]

Actually it was Circonian who created the first UO emulator back in 98 I believe. Sphere came out not to long after. Either Shardwire or UOX3 have a timeline of UO emulation history.

[na85]

I thought that TUSworld/Grayworld was the first UO emulator?

I dunno, my mistake, but thank you for proving my point :D

[Ghostwolf]

I misspelled his name, its Cironian he made the first public emulator.

Here's UO Emulator history http://www.uox3.org/history/timeline.shtml Theres some interesting stuff there.

[yomokita]

QFT
Nobody goes "Oh man, yeah RunUO is sick, but MAN, those Sphere guys are teh l33t cause they got it out first"

lol you sound like some black guy i know...

anyway i dont post because i play too many MMO's

Id rather post on those forums than here because tbh... My post are just troling and i dont really care about emu that much. im 15, so ive got no "good Ideas", im too lazy to do whatever needs doing and... yeah i cbb

[therain93]

I think more people would post if/when:
1.) the site is better organized -- get the equivalent of a dedicated community manager to clean up threads and stickies because it is difficult to figure out what is going on.
2.) the site is better moderated -- the flaming gets out of hand very quickly and should be handled by a dedicated group of mods/mini-mods that are different from the communty manager responsibilities.
3.) the team gets close to release -- right now we're just spectators without much control, watching a team of dedicated volunteers pour time into this project without much reward.

[Xiox]

ROFL


Oh and yeah. The Team that gets all the Fame and Glory is the Team that listens to its community. Or do you forget why you left SWG in the first place lol.

Think about it, the first to release a emulator will obviously get the most interest out of the community. I mean you have to face a few things here, the majority of people working on the "Other" team, once worked right here, they were the ones that REALLY got the SWGEmu team pushed into speed. I'm sure we all remembered when Xeno and Snow abruptly took off, and some of us have no idea why that even happened, and now look.. they're part of a 12+ team, who knows.. Ant could even be working on that specific core. SWGEmu, here's a clue, whatever you did in the past.. seriously.. don't do it again. Recruit some more coders, and treat them with more respect and you just might pull through with a better server, as far as I see it now.. there's a really big handful of high quality coders working on this "Other" Emu. You better work fast or get better with the updates, because what that other team has released is more than you have. You guys know what you need to do to increase traffic around here, I suggest you get on it if you really want to get the community started.

[Davickk]

I myself have been very actively following the SWGEmu since June of 06...I told all my friends about it that I could, and all my friends who were still playing NGE (I cancelled my NGE account in August)...the snags I hit, are the people still playing NGE are playing the NGE because they either like it better than pre-CU for some reason (I found that these are mostly kids under age 15, Im not joking), think the emu is illegal and dont want to go to jail, or think the emu is a longshot and will never work because they trust Smedley's broken promises over their peers'.

I know for a fact you guys are dilligent workers, and I think everyone who is here right now can agree with me, but I think some of the best things that we could do to get a larger community, would be some of this:

1) For new people threads where people ask questions or introduce themselves, NO FLAMING WHATSOEVER. You either let a moderator or dev answer their question professionally, or you can save the mods and devs plenty of time by answering the question directly in a polite way and welcoming the individual to the community, or directing them politely to a link such as the FAQ and also welcoming them. Ive noticed a LOT of hostile, HOSTILE, replies to "Hey guys, Im new" posts, and I will admit I have made some of those in the past, but its time for that to change, because all it does is tell people you arnt welcome here. Maybe bring back the good old squelch for violators?

2) Do at least a weekly update on the main page, even if it is just for an itty bitty tidbit of progress or no progress at all, just to let the people who dont have time to get on IRC or check the forums, or perhaps are less proficient in navigating IRC or forums, know what is going on without making them read between the lines for updates or go digging.

3) I would say open the test server up more often but it is up quite a lot anyways so I dont really think that is necessary.

4) Find legal ways of getting the word out such as advertising in any means necessary...even if that means putting up fliers in the window of your local Wal Mart. Considering there were over 300,000 SWG players in Pre-CU, someone is bound to see it. This may seem impractical, so why not find legal ways to advertise in gaming magazines or on gaming sites (if at all possible) using donated money? Im sure there are plenty of ways to get the word out that we arnt doing, because I tell probably 1 or 2 Pre-CU players a month about the emu and theyd never even heard of it.

These are just suggestions, and they all may be completely impossible...but hey, its worth a try.



commpletely Right 100%

[Calvin]

I myself, have spoken to quite a few people on Lowca about the EMU, to see who knows about it, who is coming over to this side of the fence, and I see alot who are worried about the legality of it (even tho I try to explain it)

I am running into the same problem trying to get all of my old guild from Lowca interested. All of them are quite certain SOE/LA will get involved sooner or later to shut it down, so why get excited or even test it. I to try explaining. I even posted a quote from several posts I've seen on the topic. I see this topic being a major cramp on the community until either SOE/LA give their blessings, or the servers have been live for a few months. ;)

[Raiyden]

Think about it, the first to release a emulator will obviously get the most interest out of the community. I mean you have to face a few things here, the majority of people working on the "Other" team, once worked right here, they were the ones that REALLY got the SWGEmu team pushed into speed. I'm sure we all remembered when Xeno and Snow abruptly took off, and some of us have no idea why that even happened, and now look.. they're part of a 12+ team, who knows.. Ant could even be working on that specific core. SWGEmu, here's a clue, whatever you did in the past.. seriously.. don't do it again. Recruit some more coders, and treat them with more respect and you just might pull through with a better server, as far as I see it now.. there's a really big handful of high quality coders working on this "Other" Emu. You better work fast or get better with the updates, because what that other team has released is more than you have. You guys know what you need to do to increase traffic around here, I suggest you get on it if you really want to get the community started.

I agree. Its all about communication. When Xeno was on the old forums, he was very much a nice guy in relation to the community. He cancelled a ban I had received for merely pointing out certain facts, and listened to the community. People will have more faith in a team with good community skills. At the end of the day though, the best working emulator will be the one adopted by the community. Theres no two ways about it. If swgemu is the best, then everyone will use it, if the "other" emu is, then that will be most popular. But if you want support from the community, the easiest way to get this is through good communication. Be it in updates, or discussions, although most fundamentally important is being nice to the community and helping new members instead of creating an atmosphere of "1337" ness whereby all new members are demeaned as "n00bs" for being ignorant of the project. The very langauge of 1337 really gives the project a bad and unprofessional look, and the fact that people feel that the easiest way to win brownie points with the devs is by flaming new members really detracts from my personal interest in posting or trying to help out. Just my thoughts, take them as you will.

[Ghostwolf]

One way to attract new members is by visiting devs of other emulation communities not to take them from their main hobby but get their interest in your community. They may not be full devs but they can still add a little code here and there from time to time which really adds up.

You are getting some news exposure. I've started up an emulation news site called Wolflore (http://ghostwolf.110mb.com/index.php) not too long ago. Shardwire (http://www.shardwire.org/index.php) still has links and some info even though its nearly dead and Emulation Resource (http://www.emulatorresource.com/) is reporting news from here.

[DeCastro]

I agree. Its all about communication. When Xeno was on the old forums, he was very much a nice guy in relation to the community. He cancelled a ban I had received for merely pointing out certain facts, and listened to the community. People will have more faith in a team with good community skills. At the end of the day though, the best working emulator will be the one adopted by the community. Theres no two ways about it. If swgemu is the best, then everyone will use it, if the "other" emu is, then that will be most popular. But if you want support from the community, the easiest way to get this is through good communication. Be it in updates, or discussions, although most fundamentally important is being nice to the community and helping new members instead of creating an atmosphere of "1337" ness whereby all new members are demeaned as "n00bs" for being ignorant of the project. The very langauge of 1337 really gives the project a bad and unprofessional look, and the fact that people feel that the easiest way to win brownie points with the devs is by flaming new members really detracts from my personal interest in posting or trying to help out. Just my thoughts, take them as you will.

This is well said, communication from the Devs is a very important aspect in any community. Also from the community it-self if we can work together we can create a great invirement for people to join our Emulator and to enjoy posting and being part of this great experience once again. But I can also state that in the near future once the Emulator is released our active members and community will jump 10 fold.

[lethalzero]

aswert to you question i thig the peolpe no put new topic for no distract yous with lamer question or repeat post , and for irc i go in and no see nothing there only people talking about other topics

[Archannon]

I loved precu. A lot. Too much actually.
But I am not playing swgemu yet. Im not testing it. Nothing like that.
See, from what I can tell by looking at the forums, this is what will happen.

1: I download a large file to install swg.
2: I open up the myriad of different guides to install swgemu and bumble through it
3: I have to replace certain files with certain other files
4: I run the patch
5: I try to log in
6: I will crash and/or be unable to login
7: I will post on the forum for help
8: I am told to do a forum search for the guides, and am told "stfu noob" and other "leet" expletives.
9: I try to explain why I cant login because the guides are difficult to understand, some are contradictory, and there are multiple files/installers I need to run
10: I am yet again called a noob
11: I dont end up logging in, so I give up.

Instead, I chose the more stress free path of:
1: Watch the forums in silence and await the coming of a single patcher/installer/updater/downloader that gets rid of the guesswork and file replacing
2: Install/play/post feedback

Because I havent installed the game due to the seeming difficulty of installation, I havent tried. I personally thing this is where many of the 8k users stand.
Because I cant play, I cant post feedback.
If you want a bigger community and more users and feedback, Make a nice big easy installer, and eliminate the flaming.
-Arch

[Waiko]

You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts

This is along with the flames and the quick to ban nature pretty much somes it up.
I really feel that if a junior member had asked the question of why isn't there more feed back, the answer would have been to "look into the future server ideas section" or "use search you noob." Then someone would have closed the thread long before page 46.

Ask specific questions if you want specific answers.