Discussion

[Ramsey]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

[Thadec]

Nice, well I think half the problem is that whenever a new guy comes in and asks a question he gets the living poo flamed out of him. Do you really think that half the new people will read the sticked posts/threads/w.e...? ffs, i've seen some mods flame new people... that isn't very beneficial to the community either... just my two cents:mad:

[Samiwan]

Am very new here. Only found out about this by chance while trolling around google. Have had a smile on my face ever since. Have been reading a fair share of the threads here, both good and bad, and there are some great ideas out there.

One thing I would love to see here as and when applicable, is for the folks who will be running the servers, set up their own threads and/or independent pages/sites, for their specific server. Then we can get a feel for what direction each of them wants to take in principal, then apply ourselves to whichever one or many that we will consider playing on. Instead of what seems so far to be a very jumbled set of ideas and conflict of those ideas

If this or something near on identical is already running please do excuse my ignorance

[Hardlinemonk]

3rd post wewt! I dont have many posts because i for one am active on truegalaxies with around 150 posts or so. That could possibly be on reason why its not as active as you would like O.o

[EVILJUDE]

agreed, to have a successfull community, we all need to learn to, as both ramsey and thadec put it, stop flaming people and help each other out. now, i dont' mean this in the context of spell out each thing when someone asks "how do I setup the EMU" but atleast point them in the right direction. I myself, have spoken to quite a few people on Lowca about the EMU, to see who knows about it, who is coming over to this side of the fence, and I see alot who are worried about the legality of it (even tho I try to explain it), others who are happy with the NGE, and those that who have already are here. some question the ability of it being able to be done (again, I tell them of how much progress has already been made). any one of my other friends who used to play I am no longer in touch with cause they left and I have no other means to get in contact with them. now, as far as the server goes, I have no idea what scriptable NPC's are or what can be done with them, but i have seen good suggestions coming from others like walls and roads for player cities, wanting to be sure battle fields work, wanting to see the possibility of getting jedi of holo or village (or combination of both), not sure if this apartments suggestion is valid but would be very nice to see it be implemented, being able to place items on the balconies of houses that have them (again, these are all suggestions from others, none are my own). I also would like to see the all the mods that never worked or never worked right, be fixed, loot tables to be adjustable, maybe some type of muti level access to the server (like full admin, partial admin, and low admin) so that the server admins can have help, but not have to give full access to everything on the server (like low admin can reset the server, but can't touch anything to do with loot tables). bout all I cna think of now. will post more if this is along the lines you were thinking of.

[jaywalker17]

I read the forums everyday. I don't, however, usually make any posts, because 90% of what I read on the forums are people getting trashed for asking a question.

That being said, I've told the half dozen people that used to be in my guild about the emulator, and all of them are excited to play. All we are going to look for is a stable server with a healthy population. Our biggest complaint about the old days was the lack of usable rewards we got from doing faction quests, and that we always wanted to be able to create our own missions in the mission terminals, be it collection of resources missions, or offering a bounty on someone.

thanks for listening

[tarrant]

One thing that I thought would be fun and informative would be a guided chat like what they used to have at Stratics at the beginning of swg. where moderated questions by smusatto or one of the other admins would be posed to the devs. as long as it is controlled, it could be great. anything you don't want to answer can be ignored, etc.

just a thought

[EVILJUDE]

Am very new here. Only found out about this by chance while trolling around google. Have had a smile on my face ever since. Have been reading a fair share of the threads here, both good and bad, and there are some great ideas out there.

One thing I would love to see here as and when applicable, is for the folks who will be running the servers, set up their own threads and/or independent pages/sites, for their specific server. Then we can get a feel for what direction each of them wants to take in principal, then apply ourselves to whichever one or many that we will consider playing on. Instead of what seems so far to be a very jumbled set of ideas and conflict of those ideas

If this or something near on identical is already running please do excuse my ignorance
no need to apologize for ignorance on that subject. there was a servers list, but it was taken down since core3 is only on the swgemu TC and any other site/server is running the unstable modded core 1. a list of some of the servers/sites out there are at http://www.swgemuservers.com/.

[Thadec]

umm says 15k members on my screen sooo ya


he is talking about active members

[sid_lowca]

we're on Irc, and we discuss topics here, but some of us are just waiting to see some results first.

[dorrick]

its not that a new guy comes and just ask any question that makes sense and would need answering. Its the people that are to lazy to just search around the forums abit an overall use there brains. I'm proud to say i have never needed to post a question on here because most or all questions are answered as simple as possible.

And i am very computer illiterate

[EVILJUDE]

also, it might be a good boost for some of the admins/mods/devs (not saying all of them, not saying any particular one, but I have seen instances of it) would follow thier own rules. this could be part of some of the issues seen here.

[Sinis]

downloading irc as we speak, last time i had this **** was back in s10, cs.

[shastadude15]

I myself have been very actively following the SWGEmu since June of 06...I told all my friends about it that I could, and all my friends who were still playing NGE (I cancelled my NGE account in August)...the snags I hit, are the people still playing NGE are playing the NGE because they either like it better than pre-CU for some reason (I found that these are mostly kids under age 15, Im not joking), think the emu is illegal and dont want to go to jail, or think the emu is a longshot and will never work because they trust Smedley's broken promises over their peers'.

I know for a fact you guys are dilligent workers, and I think everyone who is here right now can agree with me, but I think some of the best things that we could do to get a larger community, would be some of this:

1) For new people threads where people ask questions or introduce themselves, NO FLAMING WHATSOEVER. You either let a moderator or dev answer their question professionally, or you can save the mods and devs plenty of time by answering the question directly in a polite way and welcoming the individual to the community, or directing them politely to a link such as the FAQ and also welcoming them. Ive noticed a LOT of hostile, HOSTILE, replies to "Hey guys, Im new" posts, and I will admit I have made some of those in the past, but its time for that to change, because all it does is tell people you arnt welcome here. Maybe bring back the good old squelch for violators?

2) Do at least a weekly update on the main page, even if it is just for an itty bitty tidbit of progress or no progress at all, just to let the people who dont have time to get on IRC or check the forums, or perhaps are less proficient in navigating IRC or forums, know what is going on without making them read between the lines for updates or go digging.

3) I would say open the test server up more often but it is up quite a lot anyways so I dont really think that is necessary.

4) Find legal ways of getting the word out such as advertising in any means necessary...even if that means putting up fliers in the window of your local Wal Mart. Considering there were over 300,000 SWG players in Pre-CU, someone is bound to see it. This may seem impractical, so why not find legal ways to advertise in gaming magazines or on gaming sites (if at all possible) using donated money? Im sure there are plenty of ways to get the word out that we arnt doing, because I tell probably 1 or 2 Pre-CU players a month about the emu and theyd never even heard of it.

These are just suggestions, and they all may be completely impossible...but hey, its worth a try.

[Bloodfin182]

Yeah not meaning any offense to anyone, but I think this "problem" (if thats even really what it is) is a direct result of the such strict attitude that was always kind of surrounding the forums. Its definitely much much better now, but on the old forums anyway, you could hardly say/ask anything without fear of flaming or a ban. I think that makes everything intimidating, especially for new members, and almost discourages questions/ideas/etc.

That said, I dont like it more then anybody else when a noob comes in and asks the most stupid questions, when they obivously havent read anything at all.

[fenderbean]

I fear this kind of open feed back will, get out of control. The best way to figure out what people want is to have a forum for ideas and pick the best and do polls. Dont forget u cannot please everyone, thats SOEs problem they listened to all the babies who wanted to be all powerfull. I will never understand why a 2 or 3 hour player per week thought they should be able to beat a 7day a week power player. I like forums I can view them at work I cant get on IRC much. Just add a forum topic and read/discuss till everyones had there say:D

[IG-EightyEight]

ive beena member for over a year, but i just recently started posting on this new forum (i think its been up a few months now). But I don't really go on IRC all that much. Is it a big help to be on IRC as well? I am not one who begs for results because I can't imagine the work that goes into this I figure you guys are doing all you can. But If every extra person on IRC helps, i'll be glad to hop on it.

[fenderbean]

yeah I wish i could do more myself, but im no programmer. Only thing I can do is say what a perfect game would be. I can do that on the forum all day:D

[Jaidden]

I think it's a couple of things:

This is a big one. Lack if updates as to what exactly is being worked on, and how far we are in the process of these things being worked on. A simple post every few days, or once a week on what is going on, problems that are associated with these issues, and what's being done to fix it... Things like this would be a big confidence builder for the community. Not everyone has all day to spend in IRC waiting to get a sliver of information on what's going on.

New members that come here are not greeted with friendliness, but rather ridicule. This goes hand in hand with IRC. If someone asks a question in the wrong channel it's a flaming field day.

I think a lot has to do with the various server sites that have popped up as well. Players seem to spend a good amount of time on the forums and IRC of the server that they will be playing on.

[JDM4000]

I will admit that the treads here are not as many as we would like but look at it this way.

We moved 3 or 4 times and each time we started from scratch with treads. If you look at all the threads and discussions that existed from prior instances of out forum we are really talked out. We know where each of us stands and the various ideas. In some cases we had the same argument several times. In addition, SWG is not without an end. There only exists soo much that can be said.

Hows your day bob?
Good jim, hows your day?
Good bob, hows your day?


Granted we have new threads now and then but we need to come up with ideas that were not said hundreds of times before.

[Jaidden]

Yeah not meaning any offense to anyone, but I think this "problem" (if thats even really what it is) is a direct result of the such strict attitude that was always kind of surrounding the forums. Its definitely much much better now, but on the old forums anyway, you could hardly say/ask anything without fear of flaming or a ban. I think that makes everything intimidating, especially for new members, and almost discourages questions/ideas/etc.

That said, I dont like it more then anybody else when a noob comes in and asks the most stupid questions, when they obivously havent read anything at all.

/agree

No one likes questions that have been answered a million times over, but taking the time to answer the question goes a long way toward building friendliness in the community. Basic rule of thumb is that if you don't have anything nice to say and are not willing to help, keep your opinion to yourself.

[Ramsey]

NOTE:

I have put my time into this and I hope you guys read my responses to your questions. I am trying to spur discussion about how we can improve. Please read!




I read the forums everyday. I don't, however, usually make any posts, because 90% of what I read on the forums are people getting trashed for asking a question.


What do you think the SWGEmu staff can do to better deal with new people or a flow of like 100 questions a day?


One thing I would love to see here as and when applicable, is for the folks who will be running the servers, set up their own threads and/or independent pages/sites, for their specific server. Then we can get a feel for what direction each of them wants to take in principal, then apply ourselves to whichever one or many that we will consider playing on. Instead of what seems so far to be a very jumbled set of ideas and conflict of those ideas


Well the reason we have disabled a forum for this purpose is to hold people back from creating more communties for servers that do not exist yet. Its way to early for a server admin to start a community with no software. A couple weeks before core3 1.0 we'll do something like this and help server admins get started.


One thing that I thought would be fun and informative would be a guided chat like what they used to have at Stratics at the beginning of swg. where moderated questions by smusatto or one of the other admins would be posed to the devs. as long as it is controlled, it could be great. anything you don't want to answer can be ignored, etc.


So mabye having bi-monthly Q/A Sessions? sounds like a good idea.


its not that a new guy comes and just ask any question that makes sense and would need answering. Its the people that are to lazy to just search around the forums abit an overall use there brains. I'm proud to say i have never needed to post a question on here because most or all questions are answered as simple as possible.


I know. That is the reality the staff lives with everyday. Dealing with people that dont search around before posting. However there is nothing we can do, and I guess the best course of action would be to just help people out. No point in fighting human stupidity.




2) Do at least a weekly update on the main page, even if it is just for an itty bitty tidbit of progress or no progress at all, just to let the people who dont have time to get on IRC or check the forums, or perhaps are less proficient in navigating IRC or forums, know what is going on without making them read between the lines for updates or go digging.

This ties into the bi-monthly Q/A sessions. I think its doable, we just have to remember to do it ;).




4) Find legal ways of getting the word out such as advertising in any means necessary...even if that means putting up fliers in the window of your local Wal Mart. Considering there were over 300,000 SWG players in Pre-CU, someone is bound to see it. This may seem impractical, so why not find legal ways to advertise in gaming magazines or on gaming sites (if at all possible) using donated money? Im sure there are plenty of ways to get the word out that we arnt doing, because I tell probably 1 or 2 Pre-CU players a month about the emu and theyd never even heard of it.


Do you, or anyone else reading this thread, have any experience with advertising small projects like this? I'd love to hear about way's we can premote this project outside of existing members telling their friends.


Is it a big help to be on IRC as well? I am not one who begs for results because I can't imagine the work that goes into this I figure you guys are doing all you can. But If every extra person on IRC helps, i'll be glad to hop on it.


Indirectly, yes. Getting on IRC premotes community by simply forging bonds between community members. Its a live forum. If a group of people are talking in #swgemu, they learn more about each other. Then the next time a particular person replys to a thread on the forum, another person will go "Hey I talked to him/her on IRC the other day, I know how he/she is!".



No one likes questions that have been answered a million times over, but taking the time to answer the question goes a long way toward building friendliness in the community. Basic rule of thumb is that if you don't have anything nice to say and are not willing to help, keep your opinion to yourself.


Agreed. Thats why Ive taken my time and Im trying to make this work.

[Anakis]

There is no point in advertising for the Emu until it's actually released. Why draw lots of people to this site? Most will just get bored and leave because there is no game yet. The community will have no trouble growing once pre-cu returns.

IRC sucks imo for getting information. Unless you can sit there all day staring at the chat, you're not going to find anything when you come home and look at the 100,000 lines of random text that was received while you where at work/school.

Anyway, I'd like to see WEEKLY (minimum) progress updates from the Devs. On the FORUMS/main page, not IRC. Just type a paragraph about what the team is working on, what's been finished recently, what's almost done, what's next, etc.

You're hypocrites for criticizing the community's communication. Regular updates on what you're doing would keep up community interest. I personally don't participate on these forums much, because the Devs only occasionally tell us what they're working on, and all there is for threads are Jedi system ideas and other stuff that's been beaten to death.

Perhaps you could start threads based on what you're working on or will be working on soon and ask for community input on those systems.

Most of the community probably doesn't care much how you guys do it. We just want pre-cu back the way it was, with less bugs and lag. Extra features are only a bonus.

[Jaidden]

Thank you Ramsey, this is the kind of feedback that the community is searching for.

[Ramsey]

Thank you for your input Anakis.

So what I have gathered so far to improve is:
-bi monthly Q/A Sessions.
-Weekly updates.
-Advertisement of project.
-Lenient Moderation.
-Community participation in helping new members.
-Compilation of ways the community can help.

Keep the suggestions coming.

[Samiwan]

no need to apologize for ignorance on that subject. there was a servers list, but it was taken down since core3 is only on the swgemu TC and any other site/server is running the unstable modded core 1. a list of some of the servers/sites out there are at http://www.swgemuservers.com/.

Cool thank you for the link, have registered back with Chimeara.

Am unsure whether am standing with my original stance or not. The impression from what reading I have done, is that the aim is to get the game live, with content as it was 12.1, and that any other content, would be added and or taken away by the host of each server. Hence my thought of shouldn't all ideas be relevant to a specific server, not to Beta, if Beta, scripting, code etc (like I know what those words mean lol), is purely directed at getting ready for launch with 12.1 as was.

Again please excuse ignorance if I am of the mark here.

[kekeoki]

I don't say anything cuz when i do i get flamed.

[Iovid]

I have to agree with Anakis and I do understand why people who don't think before they speak get flamed or banned. I have tried not to meddle in the affairs of the developers so I wont slow them down but if there is anything that I can actually help with I am always more than willing and I wish there was more I could do.

[JDM4000]

**tosses 2 credits in**

Perhaps in place of shunting people to IRC to chat why not to the EMU?

Have a chat tap that works on all planets for group talk like IRC and have any items you guys say show up like the opening text so could know when you guys are active and provide information or whatever you need.

It also allows the flexibility to talk in the group setting and one on one like we are accustomed to in SWG. At the same time would track active participants and help to build community.

After all in IRC you can only type... in SWG you can type but you can also keep yourself entertained by moving around

[Jaidden]

What do you think the SWGEmu staff can do to better deal with new people or a flow of like 100 questions a day?

New player questions are going to come. There is no really good way to deal with new players posting questions, but a week long ban for people that flame a new player asking a question would be a great start.

So maybe having bi-monthly Q/A Sessions? sounds like a good idea.

I'm not even sure a Q/A session would even be necessary. It would be nice, but it takes up a lot of staff time. A post a week or bi-weekly explaining what is being worked on, what we can look forward to in updates, maybe what you may need help with would be more realistic. I know Teweedo is working his tail off on animations. If you want to enlist the help of someone, maybe toss them a PM.

I know. That is the reality the staff lives with everyday. Dealing with people that dont search around before posting. However there is nothing we can do, and I guess the best course of action would be to just help people out. No point in fighting human stupidity.

(See #1) New player questions are going to come. There is no really good way to deal with new players posting questions, but a week long ban for people that flame a new player asking a question would be a great start.

Indirectly, yes. Getting on IRC premotes community by simply forging bonds between community members. Its a live forum. If a group of people are talking in #swgemu, they learn more about each other. Then the next time a particular person replys to a thread on the forum, another person will go "Hey I talked to him/her on IRC the other day, I know how he/she is!".

I agree, but like someone mentioned before, the waving of the ban stick, and the general unfriendliness of some members causes hesitation in getting involved in a discussion.

There are several very mature members of this community that are willing to help if you just ask. It has to be very difficult with the few guys that you have working on this, and moderation of the boards being done by only a few people.

I also want to reiterate that I believe every member of this community appreciates all the hard work that you guys are doing on this project. You fellas have selflessly dedicated yourselves to a monstrous project out of love for a game and community.

[Samiwan]

Think I read this thread the wrong way. Sorry about that, and thanks for the valuable information I did gain.

I know a few of the guys at "Future Publishing", will mention this to them, see if there is any interest. Can't promise anything, but will put it out there

[freethinker42]

In terms of Future Server Ideas and related issues, the Future Server Ideas forum is too broad a topic. For example we have several threads on new Jedi ideas that get buried under other unrelated topics.

Simply put, I'm saying it might help to make multiple forums on profession specific topics, player housing, gameplay mechanics, crafting, etc. (like the old SOE forums) to help keep ideas together. Having a forum for every single profession may be spreading too thin, but as the community grows the more useful it will.

[Ender]

I'm the same way, I've been avidly following this project since I first heard ages ago, after I quit the NGE around a month after release. I keep track of updates and such on the site, and have been on IRC a total of one time. It just wasn't informative enough. I also wasn't a member for some time simply because I'm lazy like that ><. This is my second post in all this time, not that I think I'll sound stupid and get flamed, but because mostly anything I have to say has already been said. I would love the q&a sessions though, great idea.

[myserenity]

Ramsey,

Maybe there could be some in game events to promote testing. We have a semi-playable game at present time so instead of calling it a stress test, add in the most recent thing you have worked on and post a thread here with a date and time to have an in game party to test the new stuff. It will spark interest and give us all something to discuss. Sometimes a "stress test" is not enough to capture the attention of people.

[Iovid]

why don't you delegate a community relations person to just deal with the questions and suggestions to help keep people from annoying you Dev's and they can also serve the purpose of filtering out the bad ideas. This person would require a lot of patience and a good idea of what will help the game and what will not.

[Ender]

why don't you delegate a community relations person to just deal with the questions and suggestions to help keep people from annoying you Dev's and they can also serve the purpose of filtering out the bad ideas. This person would require a lot of patience and a good idea of what will help the game and what will not.

that's a good idea, but I don't think simply one person should filter out the ideas, most ideas should at least have some chance. We're not playing this community relation's person's game, we're playing our game. Most if not all ideas should at least be thought out, but for questions and such that's a good idea.

[Iovid]

that's a good idea, but I don't think simply one person should filter out the ideas, most ideas should at least have some chance. We're not playing this community relation's person's game, we're playing our game. Most if not all ideas should at least be thought out, but for questions and such that's a good idea.

Maybe I should have worded that differently. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of filtering repetitive questions and passing ideas on to the Developers in a more efficient manner.

[Ender]

Maybe I should have worded that differently. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of filtering repetitive questions and passing ideas on to the Developers in a more efficient manner.

ahhh gotcha. yeah, definitely a good idea.

[Jaidden]

536 views and 37 responses. Lets go guys, Ramsey is trying to get some feedback, so give him some.

[Ramsey]

why don't you delegate a community relations person to just deal with the questions and suggestions to help keep people from annoying you Dev's and they can also serve the purpose of filtering out the bad ideas. This person would require a lot of patience and a good idea of what will help the game and what will not.


Unfortunately that isn't going to work out, as great as it sounds. Problem is new people don't know the difference between a community relations person and a "Developer". It would also be hard to educate a community relations person when he/she isn't in the actual development process, which is why having a developer post updates and answer questions (mabye 1 hr a day) is a much more effective way.

Our moderators take part in other aspects of development, and I think they can do a good job in answering development questions during moderation.

Yes thank you for your input, please post more!

[EvolvedDemon]

As for advertisements...I've seen a couple people end ALL of their YouTube videos with "Support SWGEmu.com"... I think this is a simple but effective way of sparking random interest.

What ever happened to the Wikipedia article? Are they still 'dictating' that SWGEmu is illegal and non-viable?

[Iovid]

I see your point and I think your idea would work better under the circumstances.

This may be off topic slightly but the frustration you are having right now is somewhat similar to frustration I experienced helping to manage a guild in SWG. We all got along great, for the most part, but getting people to volunteer to help one another was extremely frustrating and it overwhelmed me having so much of a workload and eventually burned me out. The helpful people were extremely helpful and they got taken advantage of while others never even spoke in guildchat.

I don't know what to suggest you add to NPC's really without suggesting that you add in a bunch of code that may not even improve the game for anything more then cosmetics but if someone else makes a decent suggestion it may spark some inspiration.

[Geral]

I think a lot of people are scared to post and just pop around for updates of sorts. A lot of people are watching this project, the forum numbers are just a portion. Many are discouraged because it's relatively slow even though you guys have a lot of good things at your end.

And nobody wants to get flamed or banned for saying the wrong thing. You pointed out, "This community is doing a piss poor job..." but I think it takes two to tango, don't shift this all on us... We're all going to have to dance to the same tune here.

On the front page, you should make a simple box that doesn't have to be in sync with the server but just have a mod update it saying when the server is up and asking people to come on to talk and hang out. I think that'll help getting people online.

[JDM4000]

As for advertisements...I've seen a couple people end ALL of their YouTube videos with "Support SWGEmu.com"... I think this is a simple but effective way of sparking random interest.

What ever happened to the Wikipedia article? Are they still 'dictating' that SWGEmu is illegal and non-viable?

**simulated conversation**

how do you respond to those who say that SWGEmu may not make it to completion?

It will be completed

For a follow up question... do you know that you are using copyrighted information without permission?

That is an outright lie!

(Nice footnote in several legal systems a condition made know post sale is illegal and not binding)

Well back to the topic at hand....

I agree about the orginzation of topics under subheading to make it simpler to find and add things to.

[Samiwan]

Thinking about why we are here. We all love this game right, no doubts there. Am sure by that token is not just that game we love, but many games, if not games in general.

So lets play some!

Looking at the Chimaera server site, they got an arcade there, just basic stuff like tetris and breakout, but hey it's something, get high scores posted on the site, get the competitiveness in us going, get the gamers in us going. Am sure there must be potential to get at least two player vs, games, and how about (dunno if this is viable at all), something like a snes emu ... you know bit of street fighter two action or iss, or something

Anyone know about possibilities with this kinda thing?

[Taaack]

-Weekly Updates

Yes. Hell yes.

- Bimonthly Q/A

Bimonthly? Isnt that a little... few and far between? I can see it for SWG as it's a continuing development process, but hopefully we wouldn't have more than two of these before release... So maybe like, every 3 weeks?

-Server events

Yeah. Once mobs are in, maybe mess with scale, agro, armor, and HAM levels so that we could all kill a HUGE ASS KRAYT with like 8 mill ham and 98% armor, and does 500 to hit... That would own so hard. And quite feasible. :)

- Little features in Core 3

Most people attribute little visible progress as no progress at all. Putting the little stuff in Core 3 from time to time (maybe every week put something like, say, Armor, or Medic skills, weapons with stats, friends lists, maps, vehicles [might not be small], shuttles [might not be small, but @shuttle would not be hard], buffs, hell.. indoor sync... entertaining?) I know that would make SO many people happy it's not funny. Then, you could make progress on the bigger things (crafting, finishing combat, housing, etc) slowly, and most wouldnt care nearly as much. :)

[DARKRL]

Honestly I come on IRC everyday and I go through the forums everyday and go on the TC everyday. I've had an old friend on with me (who was with the pre-cu) that told me he would be more interested but it seemed there was nothing new to discuss. I told him there are plenty of things you all are working on but I did some research in the forums and it's pretty unanimous that ppl just want to see a weekly update just to spike interests and keep everyone talking and working in the same areas. Plz tell me if I am wrong.

[Jaidden]

Most people attribute little visible progress as no progress at all. Putting the little stuff in Core 3 from time to time (maybe every week put something like, say, Armor, or Medic skills, weapons with stats, friends lists, maps, vehicles [might not be small], shuttles [might not be small, but @shuttle would not be hard], buffs, hell.. indoor sync... entertaining?) I know that would make SO many people happy it's not funny. Then, you could make progress on the bigger things (crafting, finishing combat, housing, etc) slowly, and most wouldnt care nearly as much. :)

Totally agree with this as well. This would keep people interested. More players would log into TC and IRC to see what was new.

[IG-EightyEight]

People shouldnt be scared to post. Most of the posters here are pretty friendly, especially towards new members with legit questions. The only time i see hardcore flaming is when people ask questions that are IN the FAQ.

Other then that I think the community is pretty fair to the newer members. This is the internet people. No real reason to be scared to post or say something. If someone doesnt like your idea. Screw em, its your idea and everyone has them, regardless if everyone agrees.

just my 2 cents.


But I will agree, I think progress updates once a week, even if very minimal and/or short. Just a little bit of info goes a long way to people who look here everyday.

All in all though I personally think you (ramsey) and the folks working on the project have been doin a great job communicating...

[Addict]

I think progress updates once a week, even if very minimal and/or short. Just a little bit of info goes a long way to people who look here everyday.

*nod nod*

I'm a bit hesitant when it comes to your IRC channel. The first time I joined it there was a rather... disturbing discussion taking place. But with so many members here I can see how difficult it must be keeping things under control.

But I think you're doing a good job with everything else.

[Klanagh]

After Core3 has been developed, and it satisfies the necessities of the game, I would like to know what elements of Pre-CU are going to be included to constitute a first release of the Emu.

As in, the entire game just minus the Jedi? Or pretty much the entire game minus player cities as well? Dungeons? All mobs? Some quests?

This is what I'm in the dark with. I am perfectly fine with a bare bones first release. Specifically meaning, I would be very happy with all starting, elite (minus Shipwright) and hybrid professions working, vehicles (or just creature mounts), npc profession trainers, mission terminal spawns, resource shifts, resource extractors being enabled, dynamic world mob spawns, and guild halls being able to make guilds exist.

Now, to me, that's already a very tall order. And again, I would be very happy with that being a first release.

All JTL elemnts, Jedi, dungeons (as in Geo Cave, Deathwatch Bunker, the Warren, and the like), and quests could be added in later just as SOE added things in through updates as and when you Dev's complete them.

But, I don't know what you Dev's have decided on for a first release yet. I could even do without some of the game elements I mentioned and be happy with a first release.

I would like to know what's been discussed and set to be in the first release. And then with whatever has been decided to be in the first release, have those elements talked about on the weekly or bi-weekly updates for the community. Their progress, priorities of importance, things like that.

[Genwa]

90% of people only post about jedi things when it comes to discussion. Rest talks about armors, buffs, dots etc. Some believe they should stay as they were, some say they should be changed etc.

Since now I always thought it's too early to talk, but I see a dev is asking for suggestions.

To be honest, I want the game as it was. Some things can be changed, but I think it will be done by server hosters (like drop rates).

Server hosters should have power to add/remove any NPC they want, just for events. They should also have control on spawn rates, I personally didn't like the way krayts spawned after a small patch.

Everyone sleeps and wakes up with jedi. People should leave it. I think that's one of the problems prevents other discussions. All forums are full of "Jedi should be XXX" threads and posts. Before Jedi, there are 32 other professions. But, I wouldn't like changing them. I liked RM as it was, I like SW or TKM as they were or any other professions. Some hard core fans should think their prof should be a bit more powerful, but I don't believe so. I used to see many different templated people in PvP, but seeing more TKM never disturbed me.

If we want the game as it was, so what can be changed? Of course the small bugs those we remember. Warcry was one of them and it's fixed in emu already. There were a few more, like some specials didn't work etc. They should be fixed.

About buffs, it's been suggested 2 years ago, but SOE never did it, an idea that I liked. NPC buff bots. For high amount of credits, low quality buffs. It would remove the "nothing to do" thing when there is no doctor around and it would help economy, before it would let people have billions of credits.

We should pass the combat/crafting discussions except bugs. We loved them as they were, so discussions should focus on things like economy, afk grinding etc.

[persie_gr]

it is as simple as this EVERYONE OF THE 15K PEOPLE ARE WAITING THE GAME.
when the game is on and going there will be at least a 50% growth in community posts but when this commes some people with come to the test field on how quick they are in responces and then it will come that they cannot answer 500 mesgs per day .
I come every day to check on how things are going but i'm not answering anything and dont say anything because i'm waitng the game ,after the game is on ,there will be tons of sugestions but now what is to be said if someone take a good look at wat happend in test days he will have just a glimp of idea of what is going to happend when this wonderfull thing goes LIVE!!!!

thanks and cant wait for the game:cool:

[ioiny]

People will come when you give regular updates.
Don't see yourself as god's and welcomes the competion and can discuss the ahn project
Ultyma need to step down from his high horse and behave like a regular joe.
Don't make that much drama over this

Then you will have your community

[deadtech]

I check in here a few times a day if I can. I rarely make posts though. If I posted I my posts would get lost in a sea of jedi and pvp related posts. When I want to post on a subject I head to spraticnet where posts aren't flamed or locked in a matter of minutes.

I know you guys do this for the love of the game and all in your spare time. Everyone appreciates that. I know I do.

[freekyjason]

i asked a question on IRC, to do with putting in new items, specifically scout trooper armour. i was called a moron and my question was dismissed as retarded. i was also told it wasnt possible to add in new crc's.

since then i have put scout trooper armour in, i have also put in shocktrooper and the two rebel faction armours that came in CU. i have also managed to *one* crc in and working.

so this retarded moron succeded at hte impossible.. can you believe it?

now with the sort of reaction i got for asking a non server elated or ETA related question, how can you expect people to step forward with ideas? they either get banned or flamed. and not only by the communtiy but by the devs and mods too.

[Ramsey]

Thank you guys.

The general concern that has been brought up is people "are too scared" to post in fear of being flammed/banned. I would like invite that particular group of people to speak up about their opinions and NOW share ideas and get involved in discussion. We, as a project, are trying to utilize our huge community to create a more friendly environment and bring precu back faster.

As for getting more things on core3,
Smusatto suggested having "themed" stress test events which I think is a GREAT idea to promote participation in tests, as well as demo technology.
An example he provided was, and I'll copy this verbatim from the chat :D

(12:07:32 AM) Smusatto: defending bestine from a massive tusken invasion
(12:08:01 AM) Smusatto: rebels holding down the rebel outpost on rori from a massive imperial invasion or imperials holding down the imperial outpost on talus from a massive rebel invasion, etc, etc
(12:08:11 AM) Smusatto: and the NPCs could be scripted to invade in waves
(12:08:15 AM) Smusatto: progressively harder
...
(12:10:02 AM) Smusatto: I figure it'd be fairly basic AI... spawn the NPCs outside of the outpost, have them run towards a waypoint inside the outpost and simply have them agro any players in a certain radius
(12:10:27 AM) Smusatto: and once one wave is cleared, the next one would spawn
(12:11:37 AM) Smusatto: now the really cool part would be to allow a CSR(or admin or whatever you want to call it) to customize these events in a fairly intuitive way
(12:12:57 AM) Smusatto: such as selecting each kind of spawn, the amount of them, the time between respawns, the amount of waves, etc

[freekyjason]

Thank you guys.

... I would like invite that particular group of people to speak up about their opinions and NOW share ideas and get involved in discussion. We, as a project, are trying to utilize our huge community to create a more friendly environment and bring precu back faster.


its hard for folks to do that but, when their ideas are immediately set upon as being moronic or retarded...

the community can be rather harsh, for no reason other than its own amusement, which is driving people away who may have been able to contribute a lot. and certain devs do it too (ban bait i realise, but phuck it) the constant insults and banning for simple questions that arent the usual noob ones is rediculous.

[Tin]

Well if you want IRC to be more active you might wanna try and control the people that just shout/take the piss out of new people that join the channel and scare them off. When I was on the other day, there was 3 or 4 new people that came in and they all left because of the way they were talked to, and the people that made them leave were proud of it :S Even if people ask stupid questions, they can be told the answer, like "no idea when the test server is up, jus so you know, the server status is in #test, its only up when it says so in there" instead of "omfg1111!!!!!! read the FAQ111111111!!!!!!!!! (sets mode +b)". I told them the idea of the chat was to help build a community and all they said was "no its not" :s

[Allron]

Hi guys

i am new here to (well one month old) i learned allot from this forum, but i also know what subjects to stay away from, i even made a post that got locked. I am a 27 year old dude, and I'm a business marketing consultant in Denmark. I love the olds SWG and i don't hate the NGE it's just not a game for me. Pre-cu and NGE is the way i see it not to versions of a product but to different products.

i will gladly give free marketing ideas for this project, and be part of a generation of "rebels" that want to restore what once was. First of all i know that the old SWG community was a help full one. A noob could log on and ask the most basic questions to a 2 year old Veteran, and the Vet would show the noob everything he needed plus give him a 100K to get some better equipment.

Now i know that the 15K people in here once was part of the 300K+ members in there so the ideals of the SWG community should be used on these forums. A forum member is a "consumer" of the ending product "SWGemu" and there fore he is...."always right"....to a point. The community needs to take this noob consumer and guide him to what is going on, and what will be expected of him in the future. A good personal guide makes a better forum member for others. There are noob´s that a smart, and noob´s that need help, that is the basis of a helping community.

Another thing we could try is Banner's. there are 15K members in here and that must lead to some amount of web pages. Place banners on member web pages, make a PDF information page on this page you can print, so members can place them at schools ore on other related public places.

All this is basic stuff....and as long that it is a free working (donation only) project you a allowed to scream about it to everyone on the street (not a marketing advice, just to answer the "legal ore not" issue)

And yes there is (i guess) a lot of bad grammer in this, and that should not be pointed out in other posts either. The community is a multi languige one, and not all English. dont "kill" the alien guest's for trying to write in English

thanks for all
Allron

[Theoderean]

As for getting more things on core3,
Smusatto suggested having "themed" stress test events which I think is a GREAT idea to promote participation in tests, as well as demo technology.


That would be amazing,
Also the monthly Q/A and updates, i think people would love this, also it would limit the amount of threads asking "whats going on now"
Great ideas guys.
<3 Ramsey.

[damostmorbid]

I've never played the game but I have some ideas since your asking...


It'd be cool to see NPC's that could follow a waypoint, get into a space ship, and fly.

NPC's that can gamble and affect the economy might be handy for mods.

Placeable traps placed by the server admins might be good.

Model support for mods, so you could see new races, weapons, sabers, maybe custom saber hilts.

It'd be cool too if the client could be modded for player cosmetic only mods.

And color slider bars for all graphics, so mods could easily re-stat and re-color and rename monsters and armour and stuff.

A damage slider might be good too...

Just some ideas, thanks for listening.

[makaveli-313]

Nice, well I think half the problem is that whenever a new guy comes in and asks a question he gets the living poo flamed out of him. Do you really think that half the new people will read the sticked posts/threads/w.e...? ffs, i've seen some mods flame new people... that isn't very beneficial to the community either... just my two cents:mad:

agree'd:)

[Mansfield]

A few thoughts.

1. Advertising - why not set up a team on World Community Grid (http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/index.jsp)? Currently if we had 1,000 members we would do quite respectably on the team rankings (http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/stat/viewStatsByTeamAT.do?sort=members). This isn't a huge amount of publicity, but it's relatively easy and it's also, you know, a good thing to do.

2. Legal issues - I can see why legal discussions would be annoying, but it would be reassuring for a lot of us if we knew that you had some legal advice. I bet there are lawyers in the community who could help out. Again, it's not that I want to discuss legal issues. I just want to know that you have some good legal advice. No offense, but the legal reasoning that occasionally pops up on the forums is far from ironclad.
[I am a law student, but I don't feel qualified to advise you, and anyway I haven't passed the bar yet]

[noxsid3]

Maybe we can make a group that can help you guys to answer questions on a channel on irc or something, or a new forum section for asking questions to the community or something? :p

You devs get loads of questions that you have answered hundred times and so on, its not easy to lead a "huge" community, been there myself =/

[Iocco7015]

I've been helping people for the past few weeks in the swgemu support forum and doing a decent job and suddenly I was banned for a week for just replying to a thread where the guy was talking about the trial. So you think people aren't afraid of getting banned? I wasn't expecting it, yeah I know your not supposed to discuss the trial but I didn't make the thread about it, was just answering the guys question...I can see a lock on the thread and a please don't discuss the trial AT ALL. Am I afraid I'm going to be banned again just for mentioning it? Yeah. So thats why people aren't saying much, fear of being banned or their just sick of the morons that talk like 8 yr olds on irc. I've told a ton of people about the emu and they are all excited but don't post because they would just rather avoid the flaming from asking a question or being banned.

[AntonSelen]

i got 3 ppl joining emu. they have a sour taste in there mouth though

[POPE]

I can't see how the IRC issues can be fixed. Discussion will always lead to debate.. and unfortunately people can't take criticsm postively when it is needed. In regards to flaming.. I've had my fair share (though usually I get someone PM'img me with the answer and an appology for others.. which I do for others if I happen to know the answer).

I think there are more "active" members in terms of people joining IRC and reading the forums, then has gone noticed. Once again though, there should be penalty (or some form of warning, reprimand, etc) for those who flame others. It's a lot easier, and takes much less time (as in NONE) to just move to the next post, then it is to flame someone. Clearly you can't control "people" (being a public forum), but it would be nice to see MODS reinforcing flamers (<-if you are thinking of the other flamers.. don't go there.. haha).

As mentioned, a good solution is a "NEWB" section in the forums. I've beta tested a few games now, and they usually have some form of "NEWB" section for people to ask just about anything with out fear of getting a "don't you read", etc. post. I'd be willing to be more active on the forums if things opened up (in terms of the sometimes "dangerous" forum environment) and point people to the post they are looking for or give them information. Would certainly help if Devs said hello now and then to members they don't know.. might meet some very helpful people, who may have been insulted otherwise.

As for ideas. I have plenty myself. I wasn't aware that our opinion was needed at this point. I plan to compile a list of "tidbits" as soon as I get some time (next week or so), now that I have that information.

I am an AI programmer. I do program in C++, in the past generally algorithm programming for ACM type stuff. Recently I've been working with TCP network streams.. mainly building client-sever progs for stuff to do with school. I just started to get into hardware (not so much architecture, since I've been into that on and off for some time, but more programming of) and I've asked some strange questions about stuff on IRC.. to which I was blown off. Almost makes me regret asking some of the questions. The reason I'm mentioning this, is because I've personally offered to help with whatever.. if it's just.. hey Pope.. take a look at this.. I have a lot of connections within the University as well.. and I've posted about the EMU on our personal forums.. I've stated that it is possible for me to get others to help out here and there as well. it would be nice to be acknowledged one day, regardless of being needed.. thank you Pope.. instead of being ignored.?.

Anyways.. with all this being said, and assuming you read this far.. I'm impressed with Ramsey's post. I'm here a few times a day.. and never realized that we were valued as a community.

*NOTE: didn't proof read my post due to time constraint.. sorry for any errors*

[Paul Atreides]

Well what i would like done with scriptable npcs is. 1st off space combat quests need some creativity like docking with stations and ships and some non repedetive oh no there is another fleet coming each 5 minuits ....that is all lol. as for ground npcs. I think pirates should raid every planet in random locations(including in space maybe with imperial space area checks and on the ground) much like the storm trooper landing in the shuttle(Me myself REALLY enjoyed the sand warrior raid on tatooine, Challenging yet really fun). Other than npc raiding us we can add some other unique scrips including npc bounty hunters which search for jedi/sith/rebels on a regular basis. Or even with this idea we could add bountys on anyone cept your own faction and if the price is high enough npc bounty hunters come for you, if keep failing,heat score increased and player bounty hunters could take the mission aswell and so on. One more thing i could think of on the top of my head would be the battlefields. We should implement possibly larger battlefields and actually have them work. But 1st we need to decide what type of gameplay it will be like, including the scriped npcs you get to control and fight (which could be an idea for space aswell where you get control of space npcs). Anyhow much of you dont know how they used to work. 1st you enter the field and when the 1st person enters it has a like 5-10 minuit start time depending on if its a player battlefield(should only start when a player cap is reached like 4vs4 something like that) or purely vs npc. Once your in you start building your army(which i think should include an at at npcs, rebel hover tanks etc etc and rocket troopers to counter vehicals, flame throwers to counter infantry different types of laser towers etc etc Alot of creativity and potential in the battlefield controllable npcs. So once the timer is done both sides are ready for battle and it begins.At this point there should be a base HQ to destroy with alot of armer, Vehical factory and trooper factory maybe a wall builder function to build a parimeter that can be also destroyed. Once all your buildings are destroyed or all human players the battle is won or lost.

[Van]

[QUOTE=Ramsey;43997]NOTE:

I have put my time into this and I hope you guys read my responses to your questions. I am trying to spur discussion about how we can improve. Please read!





What do you think the SWGEmu staff can do to better deal with new people or a flow of like 100 questions a day?


Get more mods


While the guys and gals that you've got now have been doing a pretty good job only having a small number of community mods to handle the posts, flames and suggestion of 8k-15k people well, is overwhelming and way to much for them to try and manage. And thank you for saying the community is doing a piss poor job. Many that have been loyal for well over a year, sent supportive pm's and emails really appreciate that. That's the wrong thing to say to your community Ramsey. While some may have a piss poor attitude you can't lump the group together as a whole. Don't blame the community if the project is having problems. All we can do is give feedback and test. The project will only fail if the leaders of the project fail.

Hoping all that did not come off as a flame but alot of us have been very passionate about this project and stood by your team. We held together through the Joker incident, through the Snow crap that delayed the project and through the fight with Xeno. It's insulting and i've just about had enough of it. If you want a better community you have to treat them better. The ban threats have started popping up again for multiple issues, boy if this isn't a replay of some things. If you had more mods watching the boards more of the time that crap with that other crappy emu wouldn't have been a issue. Not that there's any validity to their screenshots other than they are screenshots.

Respect your community because they are your failure or success.

Thank you for your time, hard work and patience. This community appreciates what you have done for us and for the emu. I'll leave it at that.

[shogran]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

ok that's it, im gonna be honest...i honestly think if all the developers are going to do is whine that ppl arent talking about this, THEN GIVE US MORE TO TALK ABOUT!!! even the lil things! the last update i saw (apart from another one trying to get ppl into IRC) was about 2 months ago! SO STOP *****ING!!!

[magnaas darkstar]

it would be nice to be acknowledged one day, regardless of being needed.. thank you Pope..


i recognize you pope. : D

[Van]

ok that's it, im gonna be honest...i honestly think if all the developers are going to do is whine that ppl arent talking about this, THEN GIVE US MORE TO TALK ABOUT!!! even the lil things! the last update i saw (apart from another one trying to get ppl into IRC) was about 2 months ago! SO STOP *****ING!!!

They have been feeding us updates. They are still working on the Core and have told us what they will be adding and working on down the road. Mayeb it's not what you want, but it's what we got. No need to be rude.

[flas]

You can do a few things like run a cafepress contest to promote the hard work u devs are doing and your website addy and a few other things. T-shirts and other items they provide in the schools and work places would help get the word of mouth going.

In the past i have looked up much of the info i have needed. But from time to time even tho i ask a ques. get responses that are really uncalled for. All these hardcore flamers need to be stopped. Then i'm sure u will have people with RL xp in the area's u need advise in like advertising will be happy to help. The way things are run now it kinda feels like the teenagers have control or at the least young adults that have no RL xp other then sitting in front of a computer all day flaming people cause they got picked on in school or something and its the only way they can fight back. Sorry if i offended anyone but this Vid screen bully crap has to stop. Otherwise this is prolly going to fail.

[Kothliim]

Apart from the generally accepted ideas (more frequent/regular updates, etc.), someone mentioned a reorganization of the Future Server Ideas forum, which has sort of been attempted in the stickied "condensed ideas" thread. Creating a sub-forum for different general topics (e.g. subforum for new feature recommendations such the weapon/armor threads, another subforum for "things that people want to change/fix" like the balanced buffs or broken classes or insane DoTs, and another one for Jedi.... cuz there are waaay too many Jedi threads, lol) would be very helpful, I think

Also, just to comment on the server forum that was taken down, I think the idea that was suggested here wasn't so much for people to be posting in the various server threads or starting up communities, but maybe for each server to post what it would be doing (like village vs hologrind, balanced buffs vs. unchanged buffs, etc.) I dunno, I never got around to checking out the server forum before it was taken down, so I don't know what it was like

[DarkPhoenix1337]

I myself am also guilty of not participating in the forums as much as I could be. Instead of just reading topics now I will also comment on stuff so I'm not just another member in the list with 2 posts. I'll try to show my support for the EMU a bit better now :D

[Baylor]

In the past i have looked up much of the info i have needed. But from time to time even tho i ask a ques. get responses that are really uncalled for. All these hardcore flamers need to be stopped. Then i'm sure u will have people with RL xp in the area's u need advise in like advertising will be happy to help. The way things are run now it kinda feels like the teenagers have control or at the least young adults that have no RL xp other then sitting in front of a computer all day flaming people cause they got picked on in school or something and its the only way they can fight back. Sorry if i offended anyone but this Vid screen bully crap has to stop. Otherwise this is prolly going to fail.

Bingo. I think you hit one of the biggest concerns people share about this board. I'm a member of many MMO related forums/communities, and that is overwhelmingly the reaction posted by others when this project is mentioned. And that's from a wide spectrum of websites from MMO design/conceptual discussions groups to average gamer sites. The end result is a lot of talented people that could lend valuable support are shying away because life's too short to deal with socially inept people that feel they need to berate people for asking a question or voicing an opinion.

[fenderbean]

I think the biggest problem is the everyones is ready for something to play and has already spent massive amounts of time reading and throwing in there 2 cents. May have been on SOEs site like i did for years until EMU came along or one of the hundreds of EMU server sites. I really believe that if the game is finished to just the basic game, that people will play and start to have more indepth discussions and have a better understanding of what they are talking about. I know there are a lot of members who never even played Pre CU that are trying to give ideas about fixing it. I was a org beta tester and played up till NGE hit, I guess I was a power player and was addicted because I usually played for hours everyday. I have input, but honestly I like the game the way it was the 1st day it was release. I like the unbalanced version better (its more realistic that way), because even though CH, TK (examples) was over powered, it was more fun. Even with some proff being better you could still find other temps to beat them if you new how to play. Lets just get something to play, changing it will it from ideas of people will come a lot faster then because people will make servers and change things that they want. The those ideas will circulate around the entire web like EMU has :D then the Dark Overlord (SOE) will see they have been truely defeated MUHAHA :D Good work though atleast being here and seeing things go down has kept me hoping.

[Pday]

My main reason for staying off IRC and more of less out of any thread posted by a developer is that last time i had a discussion on irc with a moderator i got banned for disagreeing with him.

I think what is needed is to build a nurturing community where people are not afraid to post in fear of getting flamed or banned, heated discussions will happen and im guilty of having very strong opinions of what should and should not be on a pre cu server.
But as long as the discussion is on point with a minimum of personal insults i think most of us can handle it.

I also think that if people would put more thought into their idea's before posting it, flaming and people telling them to "gfto" etc would be cut down quite a bit. Im currently studying game design and the thing ive noticed is that people tend to post their idea without any though to how it would effect the rest of the game or post ideas that have been discussed before.
Personally im getting really tired of the "nerf this" threads in the future idea's forum when people either dont remember the mechanics around what they want nerfed, or simply seem to want things they didnt want to combat removed.

[cookiec]

Well.. tbh the reason I aint been posting much is I've been quite busy.. but also. For me anyways precu was sooo long ago... I usualy feel quite stupid when I try to post anything about it cause I was NEVER uber at it... I played it off and on due to lack of prepay cards around us and not having much cash at the time...


I remember quite a bit about it.. but I cant realy offer any perfect advice or idea's seing as almost anyone here knows more about the systems of precu then I do... I knew how to use them but I sure as hell dident study them or pay that much attention to them.. I just played the game and loved every min of it.


I've been coming on the servers every once in a while to take a peek, and I've been there for most of the stress tests and tryed to help where I could.. but I personaly do not like pvp... all it does is anoy me in swg.. so the current server does not realy offer me anything to "enjoy" that makes me want to stay on it for hours or hours....

Any time I've gone on to mess around with pvp like 20 ppl gank me within 5 seconds... not exactly fun for me... :P


But, I can say as soon as there is any sort of skill system to exeriment and test with, any sort of pve to mess around/test with.. any type of crafting, entertaining, resource testing etc... I will be there grinding my ass off trying to help when I can :)


And yah, I'll try to be a bit more active on the forum too.

[Correction]

I remember once not too long ago being banned and the entire forums being threatened to be wiped because there was too much discussion going on. I'm honestly at a loss now as to what you want from us. As far as I know, we're all (or at least, I know I am) pretty much doing exactly what we were told, now: sitting on our hands and waiting patiently.
I check for updates and I participate in the open tests. I honestly thought that's how you wanted us to behave.

I can also promise you that the people you see posting on your forums aren't the only ones waiting for this project to finish. There are several far more active server-specific forums out there that talk 24/7 about the game and your progress.

As for what I'm looking to get out of the emulator: personally I just want to play the game exactly as it was originally. Whatever you need to do to make it work like that or even to simply appear to work like that. I'm also hoping for the ability to reinstate some features that were removed before patch 12, such as player corpses, but I know I'm in a strong minority on this.
Really I absolutely hate third party content in games like this, but I realize that's a server issue and not yours. You're just here to make the software support it, and that's understandable because a lot of servers seem to have big goals.

Seriously, though, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're asking for. You already know what we want. Most of us aren't technically-informed enough to be able to make in-depth suggestions like "I want the software to support dynamic hypermega super NPC AI scripting," etc. Like I said before, we're just waiting patiently and are there to hammer a test server when you need us to.

Oh yeah, and IRC... I hang out in the #test channel occasionally, but to be honest I don't like most of the discussion that takes place in #SWGemu, though. No offense to anyone, I guess the people that do talk in there just aren't my type of people.

[badfish]

I would like to get on IRC more, but I cant at work and in the evenings am usually doing other stuff, and I think there's alot of people int the same situation. I'm really looking forward to getting a full SWG game up and running and hope you guys manage it. I would like to help, but my scripting knowledge is so poor, so I'm of little use :(

Keep up the good work, we all appreciate it lots!! :)

[Ouslo]

Well thats the problem isnt it, I got banned on IRC just for talking... Im gonna say it straight here... I think the devs and community need to soften up, some of you (Not all of you) are very patronising and harsh. Now we get threads asking why the community is as it is... Well thats how I see it, just a little patience goes a long way guys.

[porchy]

back in the day when the xbox scene was at its peak, the people that were doing the homebrew stuff had an IRC channel going. this ended up in a similar way to the emu one, with a lot of new people not reading forums/searching past posts and a lot of people getting annoyed. shortly after this, another IRC channel was setup with the prefix "4newbies" and was inhabited by people who had been around for a while and were willing to give advice, this kept the main channel free from stupid/repeat questions and also let the new people ask the questions that wanted without any hassle to devs and stopping the flaming too.

might not work in this case but the scenario is very similar

[dashbarron]

I have to say what everyone else says, that people are scared to post. I too am hesitant at times to post anything, because I don't know if I say, (and this is just an example) that if I thought the server was laggy, I'll get banned because my thoughts were taken as blaming the devs. I think as some of the posts so far have shown, it's no secret that there is a trigger fire to ban people, and yell at them...such as "...community is doing a piss poor job," doesn't install faith of the leaders as being benevolent and helping.

You put up with a lot of questions from people, a lot of the same questions. I don't have to answer them, and I'm not a Dev or a Forum Mod, so why I can answer them, I'm not look to towards the answers by the new and old players alike. I would get frustrated too if people didn't read the FAQ's, but I think banning people on the spot, and doing things as of one time, putting the locked people in a thread or calling them a village idiot for public mockery, really only hurts your chance for a good community. I think in general, if a person is a Forum Mod and gets sick of the questions...then quit. Let someone else be in charge who can handle it, and likes to help people.

In a server to play, I would look for a group of people who are friendly and open, or at least open towards each other because they are likely to make progress as a server/community, and inspire friendlies.

Not to rag on you guys, because any group of people who can do something like SWGEmu is commemorable. But other projects who do similar things, don't seem to have this negative community issue. They get newb questions all the time, but they just say read the FAQ, or the community members are happy to answer the questions, and life goes on. No banning, no flaming, just friendly courtesy.

If you ask why maybe the community doesn't do more then help, well, I've seen a few issues where someone responded to a question, saying something like, "read the FAQ before you get banned," a warning to the other person ( though it could**** be taken negatively), and then both people were banned or flamed. Instills fear, and I don't blame any who is weary of posting.

[KROM]

Thanks for having this discussion.

There is an attitude in this community that makes it very difficult to think creatively and to have "What if..." discussions. If you read the Future Ideas forums, you will see it in nearly every thread that proposes changes.

This attitude has lots of sources. Mostly, this is a fear of change created by the people at SOE. I think it is time that folks realize that noone here is talking about the NGE or CU, they are talking about modding the pre-cu game to make it even better, without changing anything fundamentally.

Another source of this tension comes from the devs here themselves. I have no beef with them and from what I've seen in IRC and here, they are funny, intelligent and dedicated people. However, they like to flame, ban and really be ****s to folks who are out of the loop. On the community boards I float around in, the only complaints about this project I hear is that the devs are too quick to ban and flame.

How can we fix it? Devs, just ignore the idiots unless it gets out of hand. Let the community help the newbs and get them up to speed. Educating new people is the only way to grow the community, so lets take care of them. Now, along with that, we need a community that is willing to put down the blow torches and teach a little.

How about if we just paste a link to the appropriate thread or the FAQ when someone asks a question rather than blow them up until they leave or someone bans them from irc?

In short, noone likes to get whipped for disagreeing or not knowing the answer. Sure, everything you need to know is here on the boards, but we also know human nature is to get info the easy way, by asking. Just direct people to the right place and drop it rather than making a scene every time someone asks.

[PhantomLeader]

I have to say what everyone else says, that people are scared to post. I too am hesitant at times to post anything, because I don't know if I say, (and this is just an example) that if I thought the server was laggy, I'll get banned because my thoughts were taken as blaming the devs. I think as some of the posts so far have shown, it's no secret that there is a trigger fire to ban people, and yell at them...such as "...community is doing a piss poor job," doesn't install faith of the leaders as being benevolent and helping.

You put up with a lot of questions from people, a lot of the same questions. I don't have to answer them, and I'm not a Dev or a Forum Mod, so why I can answer them, I'm not look to towards the answers by the new and old players alike. I would get frustrated too if people didn't read the FAQ's, but I think banning people on the spot, and doing things as of one time, putting the locked people in a thread or calling them a village idiot for public mockery, really only hurts your chance for a good community. I think in general, if a person is a Forum Mod and gets sick of the questions...then quit. Let someone else be in charge who can handle it, and likes to help people.

In a server to play, I would look for a group of people who are friendly and open, or at least open towards each other because they are likely to make progress as a server/community, and inspire friendlies.

Not to rag on you guys, because any group of people who can do something like SWGEmu is commemorable. But other projects who do similar things, don't seem to have this negative community issue. They get newb questions all the time, but they just say read the FAQ, or the community members are happy to answer the questions, and life goes on. No banning, no flaming, just friendly courtesy.

If you ask why maybe the community doesn't do more then help, well, I've seen a few issues where someone responded to a question, saying something like, "read the FAQ before you get banned," a warning to the other person ( though it could**** be taken negatively), and then both people were banned or flamed. Instills fear, and I don't blame any who is weary of posting.

We have banned nobody on the spot, unless it was for ban evasion.
We have also never put anyone in the "Village Idiot" category.
Mostly that was the old mods, who are long gone.
I would appreciate if we could stop with the "TEH MODS R NAZI's" type discussion. Nobody's going to get banned just for posting a question; that was awile back, and we don't do those kinds of things.
But in return, I would expect everyone to stop flaming noobs, read the FAQ, and try to be as helpful as possible. That is the best thing the community can do to help on the forums at the moment.

[Helker]

Greetings.

I have been lurking this forum for several months now (although i registered only on January). What I learned reading the posts is this: "Don't aks, Take whatever we give you".

I'm glad that the moderators and the developers want to take back the control of the forum, but they need to put a great effort in it. The forum needs to be much more "friendly" if you want a better community because now it is a very hostile environment...

Edit: With "more friendly" I mean the whole community, normal users specifically.

Speaking of the emulator, my personal idea is that the base should be exactly as it was on the original server with all the professions, abilities, object, and so on. Then the sigle shards will modify it as they see fit. The shards should be able to customize stats of objects, abilities, crafting recipes, and possibly add new.

I think that that should be the starting point. Then, when we can access a playable emulator, we would be able to give more feedbacks.

[soups]

Making some "official" posts on the current Core1 emulators out there that the attitude is changing here and inviting them back would help alot.


SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

You have got to be kidding. In the past we were given the impression that suggestions and questions were not welcome. IF you were not smart enough to figure it out on your own then we don't need you.

I mean that is almost literally what it said. So you should not be surprised that the community on your forums sucks.

If you want to see the EMU community as a whole go to some of the Core1 emulator sites. That is where your community found refuge when they were not welcome here.

Again I am thrilled that you want the community to start moving back in here.

[Van]

We have banned nobody on the spot, unless it was for ban evasion.
We have also never put anyone in the "Village Idiot" category.
Mostly that was the old mods, who are long gone.
I would appreciate if we could stop with the "TEH MODS R NAZI's" type discussion. Nobody's going to get banned just for posting a question; that was awile back, and we don't do those kinds of things.
But in return, I would expect everyone to stop flaming noobs, read the FAQ, and try to be as helpful as possible. That is the best thing the community can do to help on the forums at the moment.


Actually i can honestly say that i have never seen a Mod here threaten anyone that didn't need it. I have never seen a Mod Blatently insult anyone. I can say that i don't believe you guys are forum Nazi's. However other members of the staff have had this attitude. If anything i commend the mods here, and they have certainly acted more distinguished from the last batch. They need more people like you on the team. Now most of the Devs i have seen usually keep their composure (And i know it's tough dealing with the public) However there have been some very direct insulting remarks that were not needed. I don't care if someone is doing it for free and in their spare time, btw i have nothing but repspect for that. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you can't respond to the public in a civil, respectable fashion, then have a Mod do it for you. The worst thing in the world is to see a Dev get into a flame war with a member of the community. While some people find it entertaining, most don't. They find it as time and energy that could be put into other, more positive things.....like working on the emu. Thanks to everyone working hard to make it happen!

[keebo]

The reason I dont get on IRC anymore is cause one day I asked a question about the Galactic Civil War, I asked if it was going to work properly, SOE Never could get it right, I was told that They didnt want to deal with me and banned me. That was real nice of you guys. Im still gonna play, but that kinda knocked the wind out of my sails.

[soups]

We have also never put anyone in the "Village Idiot" category.
Mostly that was the old mods, who are long gone...But in return, I would expect everyone to stop flaming noobs, read the FAQ, and try to be as helpful as possible. That is the best thing the community can do to help on the forums at the moment.
Your sig:
Immaturity and stupidity do not mix with good results.
Punctuation is your friend. Use it.
Read the FAQ and Newbie Guide before posting.

Another suggestion:

As we start down this new road of building a community on this site. Remnants of the old attitudes abound. You mention flaming newbs but notice that your signature contains an open flame about punctuation and posts that you might think are Immature or stupid. That kind of thing makes people afraid to post for fear of sounding stupid or having bad punctuation.

It is a funny sig though...

[dashbarron]

We have banned nobody on the spot, unless it was for ban evasion.
We have also never put anyone in the "Village Idiot" category.
Mostly that was the old mods, who are long gone.
I would appreciate if we could stop with the "TEH MODS R NAZI's" type discussion. Nobody's going to get banned just for posting a question; that was awile back, and we don't do those kinds of things.
But in return, I would expect everyone to stop flaming noobs, read the FAQ, and try to be as helpful as possible. That is the best thing the community can do to help on the forums at the moment.

Phantom, that's great to hear. I know these things have at least gone on in the past. And while I'm sure I've seen the same mod names since then, it's good to hear the trigger figure is gone/under control, the old practice of 'Village Idiot' is long gone. Though strives may be taken to improve things, as they say, old wounds remain and people still remember. Nothing anyone can do about it, besides just work for the better future.

I think that everyone is discussing, and you are reading it, is a huge positive sign.

[LSky]

What do you think the SWGEmu staff can do to better deal with new people or a flow of like 100 questions a day?Take on more forum staff and instruct them not to be so extremely hostile. Perhaps Smussato and especially Ultyma don't ban people for asking a question, but they sure do succeed in making the environment very unfriendly on the forums and on especially on IRC. I can give examples, but I'm sure you all know what I'm referring to. You could also consider rewriting the FAQ in a nicer tone. It's not that hard, put some more time in Public Relations or get someone to do it for you.

[Gamer2bn]

When I first found this site I visited every day for like 2 months always saw alot of flaming so I never posted anything...

Slowly I started coming less and less as updates became rarer weekly updates as someone else stated would be nice but I understand that the dev's probably don't have time for that.

While I visited this site less I was visiting OpenSWG alot no flaming at all there and at that point there were alot of updates 2 or 3 a week sometimes it's slowed down since but they are still hard at work.

Another thing that is driving me away from the emulator scene as a whole is other emulation projects for older games like UO, EQ, and lineage have low player bases due to large distribution of server software and way to many people making small communities...

I hate too say it but I think SWGEMU and other emu dev teams need to keep their software to themselves, when it is done and pick 3 or 4 people with decent servers and internet connections to run it on. Otherwise I don't see any servers being populated to the point that they should be.

I liked the idea someone else stated of putting fliers in supermarkets and such, one should be designed pointing out all the myths that people beleive such as playing on an emulator being illegal and facts to support the stability and completeness (When it's done) of the server.

[PhantomLeader]

It is not a flame. It is a simple statement that punctuation is a good thing, which, from the looks of it, is not a widely accepted view on the internet. "Immaturity and Stupidity do not mix with good results." is also not an open flame directed at anyone; once again, it is a simple observation that people who have little maturity and lack intelligence often do stupid, dangerous things. It's not directed at any one person or persons.

As for the chat log...
<PhantmLdr> MudRat, be quiet.
<MudRat_02> no i wont be quiet
<MudRat_02> this is just childish
<MudRat_02> its like 'he who must not be named' off harry potter
<MudRat_02> cmon guys
Later...
<Ultyma> everyone stfu
<MudRat_02> yeah stfu everyone
<Ultyma> you too asshat
<MudRat_02> lol
<MudRat_02> wasnt it assmat?
Later...
<MudRat_02> phantmldr you assmat

I admit my idiot comments were out of place. However, we did tell him to stop it with the topic he was going into, which he flatly refused to do, and started insulting.

SWGEmu Homepage

IMHO the main page looks horrible. I do believe that many new people ask questions, which have been answered before, because they are not directly pointed to the right spots. FAQ, "About SWGEmu", etc. should immediatly catch the visitor's eye. Maybe add a newbie section.
Agreed. I'll talk to Ramsey as soon as possible about that.

Development Process

The whole development process is undisclosed. Most likely it will remain that way; however, Ramsey has given some suggestions for the community on what to do. If you would like to do that, go ahead.

[Van]

This thread should be deleted and constructed in a more proper fashion. In the end it will just become a bigger fire, pitting Devs and Mods against community members. I know that's not the staff's intent at all, but this isn't the first time this has happened. Sometimes frustration sinks in and causes a negative release. Nobody wants this. We all want to be a big happy family, but is any family every truly happy??? No. All families fight, even blood relatives. Everyone has a point of view on something and when someone starts insulting the other it doesn't make it better. Please stop posting screens from IRC. No one is perfect and everyone has their faults. Some people just wish to antagonize others and this isn't heping the EMU get done any faster or better.

[Juspar]

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

This simple update, not an announcement of something that's done, just keeping people in the loop, is probably one of the two main things that the EMU team can do to encourage community.

The other would be to keep Uty off the boards. I love the guy for his passion and dedication, and obviously his skill, but he is NOT good for public relations.

The major issue the EMU team run into when trying to create a community is that there is nothing for the community to do, and no future plans for there to be. What you're working on is the backbone of all the server's communities, but that doesn't mean you have a draw . Really all you have is updates on progress of something that is important to all of us. If you can involve us though those updates and questions on things where community opinion is relevant, then you draw people to the boards. Once they spend some time here because you drew them, they will talk among themselves.

[soups]

The new link to the FAQ is certainly easy to see now.

Thats a great spot for it, I don't know about the impression having it multiple times makes but that placement rocks.

Oh its gone, well that was a great spot :)

[Dragonseeds]

I most definately agree. Im guilty of not having posted at all since I've joined the community. I'll take this chance to say THANK YOU for all the work you guys have put into this. I've messed around with some of the testing and stuff the last week and a half or so and I'm amazed at what you guys have done. So my goal is atleast 4 posts a week, more if i can. Thanks again :)

[Van]

This simple update, not an announcement of something that's done, just keeping people in the loop, is probably one of the two main things that the EMU team can do to encourage community.

The other would be to keep Uty off the boards. I love the guy for his passion and dedication, and obviously his skill, but he is NOT good for public relations.

The major issue the EMU team run into when trying to create a community is that there is nothing for the community to do, and no future plans for there to be. What you're working on is the backbone of all the server's communities, but that doesn't mean you have a draw . Really all you have is updates on progress of something that is important to all of us. If you can involve us though those updates and questions on things where community opinion is relevant, then you draw people to the boards. Once they spend some time here because you drew them, they will talk among themselves.


Exactly. We want to help, but all people do all day on here is make suggestions. More direct questions on something you are currently working on might be more helpful to both you and the community. Not only that, it gives a idea to everyone what is currently being worked on. Good post Juspar.

[Grija]

Thank you guys.

The general concern that has been brought up is people "are too scared" to post in fear of being flammed/banned. I would like invite that particular group of people to speak up about their opinions and NOW share ideas and get involved in discussion. We, as a project, are trying to utilize our huge community to create a more friendly environment and bring precu back faster.

As for getting more things on core3,
Smusatto suggested having "themed" stress test events which I think is a GREAT idea to promote participation in tests, as well as demo technology.
An example he provided was, and I'll copy this verbatim from the chat :D

themed stress tests would be amazing, maybe some krayt action, or even faction base assaults

[Akelei]

Its the general hostility from some team members and moderators that causes it, be a little more friendly and keep the finger from the ban button for a minute and people wont hold back on starting or joining discussions. This goes for some people in the community as well.

And as with everything, people constantly need a carrot to keep interested or eventually they get bored and leave. Keep releasing videos, even if they are of the most insignificant feature. Things such as cities showing up on the map, or using a faction recruiter to change your status is always a sign of progress. Less frequently, feature tests such as the stress tests will also help in keeping the community interested and willing to put effort into helping you out.

Be friendly even in the face of exceptional stupidity and ignorace - make sure to show results whenever possible. Two of the most important things imo.

[Van]

themed stress tests would be amazing, maybe some krayt action, or even faction base assaults

Factional base assault would be great, that way you could avoid getting ganked within the first 5 secs of logging in. You log in at the bottom of the base loaded with factional npc's and move out to the battlefield.

[PhantomLeader]

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.
Ramsey was right on.

Now lets get back to suggesting ideas, not flaming the devs/mods. Okay?

[LSky]

Ramsey was right on.He wasn't, people get banned from IRC for no reason.
Now lets get back to suggesting ideas, not flaming the devs/mods. Okay?If you ask questions, expect answer that you might not want to hear. If Ramsey starts off with that the community is doing a poor job, expect something in return.

[Po-ooga]

Ramsey, the Problem is 3/4 of the community is banned from MIRC, and has banned forum acounts. Thats whats the problem is. if you guys lifted the ban people would be able to venture into MIRC again, etc.

[LSky]

Ramsey, the Problem is 3/4 of the community is banned from MIRC, and has banned forum acounts. Thats whats the problem is. if you guys lifted the ban people would be able to venture into MIRC again, etc.Now that is a load of bull****, some people deserve to be unbanned, but they don't represent 3/4th of the community.

[Dariel3012]

Ramsey, the Problem is 3/4 of the community is banned from MIRC, and has banned forum acounts. Thats whats the problem is. if you guys lifted the ban people would be able to venture into MIRC again, etc.

i wouldn't say 3/4 .....

[Bostwain]

Ok If you want dedication we need something to be dedicated to. I dont know about anyone else but I'm a visual person, I like to see what the devs accomplish on a certain day etc. But as i remember you saying Ramsey, "we drop hints everywhere".

I'd be alot more into this if i actually got to see a list of what the devs have done and accomplished on any given day. But making me look for minute resources for something that probably isnt even there, and is just an assumption doesn't work for me.

[PhantomLeader]

Ramsey, the Problem is 3/4 of the community is banned from MIRC, and has banned forum acounts. Thats whats the problem is. if you guys lifted the ban people would be able to venture into MIRC again, etc.
Not an acurate number. We have 34 banned accounts on the forum, most of which are clones.

He wasn't, people get banned from IRC for no reason.
I'm sure there is a reason that people get banned on the IRC. Most of the people you see complaining on the forums about IRC bans were not themselves banned, but are on the same network as someone else who was banned/glined/whatever you want to call it.

[LSky]

I'm sure there is a reason that people get banned on the IRC. Most of the people you see complaining on the forums about IRC bans were not themselves banned, but are on the same network as someone else who was banned/glined/whatever you want to call it.
The same network wouldn't be so bad. But the same subnet or even the same ISP is something completely different.

[PhantomLeader]

Some people (like me) have an ISP that chages your address every day or so. The only way to keep a banned person from coming back (at least for awile) is to ban the whole ISP. I don't like it any more than you do, but sometimes it's the only way to keep troublemakers out.

[Jordashebasics]

I've been hesitant to reply to threads because of the threat of banning.

Flaming isn't exactly caused by the people being unwilling to look for answers to their questions - it's that threads get named poorly.

The thread requesting that people not try to log into the TC when it isn't up was titled "Fair Warning." As far as I know, that's a Van Halen album, not a warning about not logging into the TC. The thread would probably be better served by titling it "Please don't try logging into TC when it's down"

If the help topics were also specific, that could also reduce the number of support question threads that result in flaming.

I understand that the search function should provide relevant results, but even on the best of forums, there are lots of visitors that don't search, and just browse.

Once mobs are implemented in the test center, I'd be a whole lot more likely to participate in tests. I can't handle PvP at all. I just get knocked down and killed every time.

[tonsters525]

In my opinion IRC is a little too off topic, I just can't stay on IRC of how off topic it is. Yes we should get to know each other but, some people are so ignorant of how people take stuff. Like I know all about kidding around but, the last time I was on IRC I knew I had to just leave, their was too much arguing about stupid stuff not related to this project at all. Maybe we can have an OFF TOPIC CHANNEL: ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.

[iwoo]

Ooh! Just had a nice idea! I remembered my days as a bounty hunter. I was wondering if you could expand the BH profession a little bit. I know you could hunt real player jedi but I was wondering if you could hunt other people for other reasons. Me and a friend were talking about this and thinking it would be so cool to do.
Another nice idea would be to have missions posted by actual people with set rewards. I honestly have no idea if these requests are possible (please dont flame me) its just that if it was possible, this idea would be sooo awesome! Please reply giving your opinions folks!

Iwookehia =]

[LSky]

Some people (like me) have an ISP that chages your address every day or so. The only way to keep a banned person from coming back (at least for awile) is to ban the whole ISP. I don't like it any more than you do, but sometimes it's the only way to keep troublemakers out.And that's exactly how people get banned when they never did anything wrong.

[Van]

Ooh! Just had a nice idea! I remembered my days as a bounty hunter. I was wondering if you could expand the BH profession a little bit. I know you could hunt real player jedi but I was wondering if you could hunt other people for other reasons. Me and a friend were talking about this and thinking it would be so cool to do.
Another nice idea would be to have missions posted by actual people with set rewards. I honestly have no idea if these requests are possible (please dont flame me) its just that if it was possible, this idea would be sooo awesome! Please reply giving your opinions folks!

Iwookehia =]

There are several posts on this subject already. People have had some great ideas. You find those ideas in:

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7


Take a gander, lots of interesting discussions going on!

[Dariel3012]

Just wondering how hard NPC/Mobs will to implement and do in the right places and stuff? If possible it would be cool to see the skill systems done first (give or taking crafter)..which then would lead to NPC trainers and Mobs which then could lead to Xp and grinding. Just an idea....

[lino]

I've stopped posting on the forums simply because of the flaming that goes on here , I agree that when new members join the community they should read the faq but not everyone is going to do that ,

Also majority of the flamers i have seen have taken place the future ideas , Now it is expected that when someone posts an idea not everyone is going to like and give their opinions why but the manner of it is so rude that it scares that new member away , I agree some ideas that have been posted i don't agree with but if you're going to give that person your opinion at least do it in a way where you're not hurting the member or the community .

[tehBayek]

This has been said in here by a few people already, but I think one thing that could help a lot is to have a few more moderators for the forums/IRC. A topic started by a "green name" is a lot more likely to be responded to by the community than anyone else... This topic is a great example of that.

Also, I do think that a PR could work. Give them access to view, but not post in, the Developer's private forum/IRC channel (I'm not ecactly sure how you handle that) and have them release weekly info based on what they read in those forums. Obviously, the PR person wouldn't just copy/paste everything and would use some discretion in his updates. That would take some of the stress off of the Developers in having to update the community and let them focus more on "developing" rather than having to deal with the community.

[JediX14]

Ok..this post prlly wont be read much but ill type anyway...I dont get on these forums much bcuz im on my servers forums....I understand were u guys are coming from i mean why do something for us wen we wont even converse a bit or make conversation...in hindsite we havent been the best community but lets try and change that for you hard Emu workers...I have some suggestions..On my server (true galaxies) they are debating to put the planet tanaab in live. i was wondering if u guys were also gonna try and maybe put it in?....this is purley for the art of discussion not trying to tell you hgow to work just a thought ya know theres a few more ideas but ill save them for other times...thanks for listening to my long boring rant thingy

[DavinFelth]

My personal opinion is that if the "noob threads" (the ones with people asking questions) were just left open instead of lock 'n' ban then most of the community would be happy to answer the question anyway (which they can't do if it's locked) so dev's, mods etc. wouldn't have to spend their time locking the threads and/or answering questions... the SWG community is quite a helpful one when given the chance, that and people will always be willing to show how smart they are :p

[Darkcloud]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?
well, i went on irc few times when i was new, i asked 2 simple questions, i just got flame, so i am done with it, and just look at the forum to see what is going on.

[Wyz]

In addition to my previous post...

Testing team

It might make sense to establish a "closed group" (informed and reliable) of testers, i.e. dedicated members of the community, who are willing to help the devs to test certain things ingame. Most likely these people will rather have to actually work than having fun wielding the glowstick. ;)

If you get enought people together, you would always have a team to rely on. Testing could be more focussed, ordered and managed. Of course, this also means that testing with this team has to be organized.

Involving the Community in Development

I know that this on is a bit tricky in terms of style, quality and reusability of code. Everyone, who has ever developed software in a larger team knows what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

I bet, some members of the community would even like to help you out coding. You could post requests for functions (give a function prototype and post necessary info like struct and object defs), stored procedures, scripts, etc. (even libraries), which fulfill defined tasks.

You wouldn't have to go open source, but still benefit from motivated community members. However, you'd have to define some coding standards first, otherwise this would most likely result in chaos.

[mykewlname]

Let people freely discuss their opinions and observations. If someone comes onto the general discussion board and posts something like, oh I don't know, say "Not everyone wants to be a Jedi" then just let them keep their post up for more then 30 minutes before one of you deletes it because "you didn't find it useful."

In America we have freedom of speech. On the SWGEMU forums, we have had a
totalitarian society run by seemingly adolescent bigots. That sounds very harsh but that is the reality that a lot of people saw when they came here. Things have changed, and I have noticed it. A lot of people still come here but won't post and most certainly won't donate because they might be afraid of the communist regime's imminent return. I know that I am.

So, solution? Keep up the good work and the good attitudes, and your community will build. But your reputation precedes you now, and it is hard work to get people to trust in something once that trust has been pulverized into dust.

[SwgEMUtester]

We have 8k members I don’t see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.
I understand this may be interpreted as a flame, and so be it if that’s the case. But since no one else has said it and probably won’t out and that typical fear which seems to linger around of a ban, I will say it. I find it extremely ironic and I bet a large majority does as well, that your help pledge to the community for contribution begins with the above lines.

The fact many members have tried, consistently to do just what you’re talking about, being creating forum topics, and discussing in IRC numerous topics and what not. Only to be shut down by what could basically be summed up as elitist attitudes. The irony? That these very attitudes are backed up by what seems to be the core of the moderation staff within the emu.

Obviously change is needed, and I for one applaud you Ramsey for starting this initiative. For that, you have my respect.

Onto my point though, for change to be made, problems need to be named.

From a IRC perspective (I am a major idler, I idle almost 23 hours, with a minor connection interrupt whilst I change computers from home / work) and I do read the majority of what is said in #swgemu and #test. For what I do not read, I log it. Anyhow, from a pure IRC perspective change can begin with two active @’s in IRC.

Phantomleader – Many idlers think he’s a mere bot, I would have thought just that, except I surprisingly saw him posting him on the SWGEMU forums. Many of his actions in IRC consist of kicks from half ass reading of the IRC channel, alongside repeating the same thing over and over. He hardly contributes in there, it just seems he enjoys being a internet cop.

Ultyma - He seems to be the godsend of the elitist attitudes which thrive mostly in IRC, he never takes action against the rude or the flamers and mostly insults new members, kicks or bans them in a heartbeats nice. You say we need to build a community, you say recruit friends, build up interest Ramsey. How can we do that when they say something which doesn’t agree with Ultyma and they end up with a ban? It not only makes the swgemu project as a whole look bad, but it makes myself look bad to my friends.

My fingers are slightly tired now, but please, the above issues are critical to needing reviewing, we can then move on from there.

[skyhawk]

If the devs see a nice idea posted on forums, they can put in the main page a simple poll about this matter. Cause maybe someone missed the thread or cba to read 11 pages of flaming/non sense posting. In that way the ppl who replied on the original thread will know that it isnt "buried" in the forums. Even if the devs saw that thread and liked the idea, people will never know about that(maybe they will when server is up).

Just think of it. Several polls per week about a crucial matter.
ex. "You want holo grind or village"
"You liked the frs system as it was?"
"You liked the looting system?"

Evryone will look at it, and its just some clicks away to make his opinion COUNT.

As Ramsey said, some ppl might be stupid, or might be bored to scroll/search forums about a particular matter. There is nothing we can do about them, than make it easier and faster to say their ideas. And I think that smart polls with answers that cover the whole aspect of a matter, can help with that.

[KROM]

I'm not one of those guys who thinks he should be involved and know what you folks are up to in development. I figure you are doing this thing on a volunteer basis and I've no right to make demands.

However, I do think I have the right to ask that members of the community are treated with some respect on the forums (where things seem to be going well mostly) and on IRC. I've had zero personal issues with mods on IRC, but I've seen some things that upset me.

1. Multiple people kicked from IRC simply for asking a question. Granted, a newb question that is answered in the faq documents, but just for asking a question. A simple link to the info and all would have been well. Instead, a flame then kick.

2. An entire ISP was banned because of the actions of one person. I'd rather have the potential return of one ******* than see an ISP full of potentially intelligent and diligent testers and community members banned for that *******'s actions.

That sort of disrespect trickles down. People start to figure you can just flame the pants off of people for asking questions or proposing ideas. It happens constantly. We ALL need to respect one another if we want to have a good community. We are ALL after the same thing, right? A fun and stable pre-cu server to enjoy.

[RadynJ]

I'd love to see stuff on the patio's of the houses, that always bugged me on live. Also, some of us have always been here to help people on IRC, I cant count the number of people I've helped in PM's set up Emu, just ask. I've always found the Emu community to be very friendly as of the last few months and just keep up the good work.

Now Devs, I think you might find what you're hoping for by posting weekly updates (at least!) and perhaps expanding your dev crew, I know there's lots of people that would love to help with Emu.

[Rudy]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

First of all, I cant get onto IRC because the port is closed at my apartment complex. This is probably a common practice, too, because I know a lot of people who cant use it. Also, IRC has a pretty bad reputation of people getting banned for no reason. I cant comment on it personally but I've seen threads and such.

What type of suggestions do you want? Do you want
- What you should work on next?
- New creative content to add?
- Bug Fixes?
What do you want suggestions on?

I think the majority of discussion of the emu goes on in the future ideas forum. That may not be what you mean by suggestions, but I think if you wanted suggestions that would be the place to ask for it.

[na85]

I actually stay away from these forums sometimes because there's too much e-drama.

The suggestion forum is nothing but a shooting gallery where people come in and flame other peoples' ideas. It's not productive.

Too many people on here have a bad attitude (this includes both some of the dev/mod team as well as a good portion of the community). It seems like many people here have a chip on their shoulder.

Back to the e-drama, what the **** is this nonsense about code being stolen back when we were open source? Are people retarded? The whole point of open-source projects is that anyone can look at AND USE your code. That's the entire point.

Too often I see power-tripping mods posting in locked threads just to get the last word and prevent anyone from rebutting.

Too often I see people on the forums flame perfectly acceptable posts because they think they're the ****ing boy scouts of the forums.

The average maturity level of this community seems fairly low, which is why I spend less and less time here.

[Damean1]

I personally post next to nothing for a simple reason, half the time people just start spouting insults, and I've seen Ultyma ban people for the most rediculous things. I have no desire to interact with a mod who'll not answer a question and would just as soon ban you for asking, therefore I read, I keep up with the new information and I keep my mouth shut. I am prepared to be banned for saying this, but someone needed to comment on it. No one wants to ask a question and have someone who obviously has more power than his attitude warrants ban them for seemingly no reason at all.

I'm not saying Ultyma isn't great at whatever he does, just that maybe a bit of tolerance is in order if you want the community to expand. People don't like being flamed, don't like being insulted because they're ignorant or not up to date on facts, and it's even less engouraging when you see new members get banned and Senior members act like it was completely acceptable... case in point...
Capt Jones says "Messaging you? Can't recall.. I came in one night after my bro left, to check what's going on in IRC and you said something about "now ur getting banned" or something and some bigger nerd said 'lol'.
Also, whats wrong with talking **** in the forums? It's not very alive as you can see."
And Ultyma replies "I wasn't even talking to you idiot.
I'm replying to Eaglez. This is his thread and you decided to troll on it.
More reason why you are banned from our servers.
And now I'm taking away your posting privileges. Good Day."

I personally don't think it's right, and chose not to post for the most part after two or three of these were the first couple posts I found. I have every intention of keeping up with what's going on, every intention of playing the SWGemu as it progresses, and even more so when it's done, but I will not continue to hold my tongue, when I see people get banned for nothing, and I fully expect to get banned for speaking my mind.

[blackjack]

I think the reason why many of my friends don’t bother to sign up is down to a few factors. here are just a few views of my friends and I.. They are not meant to be insulting but constructive points.:)


The history of the project, the drama of past events, has made many of the people I know lose hope in the project. Or they have moved on to other games and are no longer interested.



scattered decisions and sudden changes in goals.
Such as going from open source to, closed source. On the top of not having a current closed source server files to download, so that people can play what’s currently is made. Many of my mates view the project like a headless chicken.



That compared too many other emu such as L2J, there is not any clear milestones, where anyone can track the devs, check out their current development and send in bug reports. I know that you guys say it’s a hobby, but at some stage even a hobby grows to a point where it gets beyond that point due to it expanding over time, it seems that the project can’t make up its, mind if it’s going to be just a hobby project or a professional run project.



People are still worried if they sign up and say what they think, in their harts will lead them to be ban sticked.




There is not any clear micro projects design to get the community involved, such as helping to build/fill a data base for you guys



The last time I went on IRC it was fall of childish talk about, totally senseless things or content that was not for kids and no moderator was doing anything about it.



You say you drop hints everywhere about what you doing, or up to but with the amount of senseless reply’s posts from the pubic in sections of the forum, it’s sometimes hard to find what was said by any dev. not saying that you should remove anyone’s posts. But make a section that is solely filled with your input.



More features on the board, kind of like soe Friday features, on current events.

[Lumby]

I dont go onto IRC anymore because Ultyma perma-banned me without question while I was trying to help test the server. (He banned me because I couldn't connect when the MOTD said it was UP so I asked in #test if the server was actually down.). After that I just lost all interest in helping out or trying to be part of a community. Whats the point if our own devs dont really care about a community? I will probably be banned for this post anyways.

[Garth]

Ramsey,

PvP is what I did during base busting so that was about once a week, I'm really looking forward to Crafting and PvE content which I did every night for 4 - 5 hours. You guys are doing a great job and will be Hero's of the Rebellion.

My problem is I could not find my SWG disks, so I had to download the free trial offer and I'm not sure how to patch back to the point I won't get error messages some of us are not what would say geekie enough. I need a simple follow these steps guide to patch backwards. 1. Do this 2. Do that I'm sure there are many like me.

Any Ways I have told and emailed at least 12 people from my old Guild they are just waiting I'll ask them to reg on the site asap.

Keep up the good work you all Rock!

Garth

[Po-ooga]

I understand this may be interpreted as a flame, and so be it if that’s the case. But since no one else has said it and probably won’t out and that typical fear which seems to linger around of a ban, I will say it. I find it extremely ironic and I bet a large majority does as well, that your help pledge to the community for contribution begins with the above lines.

The fact many members have tried, consistently to do just what you’re talking about, being creating forum topics, and discussing in IRC numerous topics and what not. Only to be shut down by what could basically be summed up as elitist attitudes. The irony? That these very attitudes are backed up by what seems to be the core of the moderation staff within the emu.

Obviously change is needed, and I for one applaud you Ramsey for starting this initiative. For that, you have my respect.

Onto my point though, for change to be made, problems need to be named.

From a IRC perspective (I am a major idler, I idle almost 23 hours, with a minor connection interrupt whilst I change computers from home / work) and I do read the majority of what is said in #swgemu and #test. For what I do not read, I log it. Anyhow, from a pure IRC perspective change can begin with two active @’s in IRC.

Phantomleader – Many idlers think he’s a mere bot, I would have thought just that, except I surprisingly saw him posting him on the SWGEMU forums. Many of his actions in IRC consist of kicks from half ass reading of the IRC channel, alongside repeating the same thing over and over. He hardly contributes in there, it just seems he enjoys being a internet cop.

Ultyma - He seems to be the godsend of the elitist attitudes which thrive mostly in IRC, he never takes action against the rude or the flamers and mostly insults new members, kicks or bans them in a heartbeats nice. You say we need to build a community, you say recruit friends, build up interest Ramsey. How can we do that when they say something which doesn’t agree with Ultyma and they end up with a ban? It not only makes the swgemu project as a whole look bad, but it makes myself look bad to my friends.

My fingers are slightly tired now, but please, the above issues are critical to needing reviewing, we can then move on from there.


This diserves a big QFE.

[scottyg2]

Most people get flamed because they cant read the faqs/guides, or search things on thier own.

Now seriusly, 90% of these questions are awnsered somewhere, and just looking through all the questions asked, i found an awnser in less than a minute (in most cases)

And when we tell these people to look it up for themselves (becaues not only is the information RIGHT there, it gets them into the habbit of looking instead of asking), they say they are too lazy to look it up. Now, tell me why we should be nice in this scenario.

[Niad]

I dont go onto IRC anymore because Ultyma perma-banned me without question while I was trying to help test the server. (He banned me because I couldn't connect and I asked in #test if the server was down like it frequently is). After that I just lost all interest in helping out or trying to be part of a community. Whats the point if our own devs dont really care about a community? I will probably be banned for this post anyways.


Yeah but you have to understand that the #test topic says if the server is down or not.It also says, that if you speak in that channel when the server is down or about anything other then the TC you will be banned.

I have never seen someone get banned for no reason. I keep hearing people say that, but have seen no proof or good examples.

The team has given us many avenues to find answers to our questions. It is people who blatently disregard the rules that get banned. You can ask as many questions as you want without having to worry about getting banned, as long as you follow the rules about such questions.

I do however think that people are way to quick to flame. who knows, some computer nerd millionair that wanted to donate $9000000000000 to the emu could have asked a question and been flamed... and then decided not to donate said $9000000000000. (probably not the case)

I think, that we should ban people that get out of hand with the flaming...
Certainly it should be at admin discretion whatever they feel is in excess.
If the topic says TC will be up at 6.... and then someone logs in and imidiately asks when the TC will be up.. sure some moderate flaming should commence... i mean the topic is right there and a wonderful and easy tool to use even for the most noobiast of noobs. Just keep it in hand, don't say "OMGWTFBBQ FUKING NOOB! READ THE TOPIC AND I HOPE YOUR PARENTS DIE" thats a bit much.

But something like "dude, read the damn topic! IT really helps answer a lot of questions" this would be acceptable.

*EDIT* oh and everyone always says "all of the questions are answered if you would only look"... well SWG IS A GAME! YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE AN UBER FORUMS GURU TO PLAY IT. IN FACT, THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT PLAYED SWG BEFORE HAVE NEVER BEEN TO FORUMS. now you ask people to use the search function how the hell are the supposed to automatically know how to do that? I had NO idea that forums had a search function when i first started frequenting them.

there is a reason, that the 3 strikes your out rule was invented. Not everyone is perfect, not everyone knows everything. The only fair way to ban someone for asking stupid questions are repeat offenders. This would mean we wouldnt be over culling the heard (as some of these people eventually become good forum members)... the real morons would be banned and the people that are just a little ignorant in the ways of the forums would be safe.

Anyways, there are just my two cents. But I really think that if we took the time to teach people the rules rather then banning for not knowing them, the entire community would prosper.

[iwoo]

This diserves a big QFE.

QFE?

[Knight]

Told all my buds, they wanna play and wait for you to finish. They all wanna know eta , and well when you ask eta here......yea thats pretty much why they dont join up. So maybe my idea.. take it a little easier on the new guys/gals.

[Comic]

I agree that people get flammed too much and there are too many ass lickers who shoot you down right away. It seems more server chat goes on on the server forums. Maybe because people didn't realise that their view counted on here, I dunno. I'll still spread the word about this project as I have done since I found out about it :)

[sheduur]

Most things have already been said. But here is my list of things that I noticed so far :


- People would like to know whats going on, you dont need to go into any details, just a quick heads up every few weeks of whats currently going on. If you want people to get involved and active, keep feeding information to them which they can easily access, and not just by digging the forums for single posts and reading every thread there is.

- The attitude towards people that are asking things is usually pretty hostile without the guys that are asking being offensive themselves in the first place (yes there are alot of lazy people that ask things that are already answered). If you wonder why people keep asking about a certain topic, simply make a thread or put it into irc topic so people have their question answered before even trying to ask it. Only the true moronic people will still ask then.

- Be open to suggestions, at least dont just insult people for making inappropriate suggestions. There is always a way to tell someone that his suggestion is not taken into account without being hostile towards them. People making suggestions should be seen as people that actually care for the project or they would not make any suggestion at all. If you just silence them by bans or not being at least polite, dont expect them to ever try to contribute again, or at least less than they would have tried in the first place.
With a hostile attitude you dont show any respect to people so dont expect them to trust in you guys.



Suggestions towards the gameplay and features

- About suggestions for things that might be added. Some people asked about the combat animation speed for melee players which are often too slow once your speed capped and thus look very weird. Some adjusting of that so the animation playback is adjusted to be finished after 1s incase the guy is capped. I dont know if thats possible, since I guess it should have been some parameter being sent with the packets that trigger the animation etc and might not be possible. But that could be an addition, even if its not that important to me, but to some people it has always been :)

- I would love to see the mission terminals giving you missions, or some basic npc/creature spawn implemented. No need for it to be spread out or seeded in any way. Just some basic routine that puts creatures on some points so you can hit them without going overt or finding someone that wants to duel. This might speed up the animation finding process a bit. A side effect would be that you could test how stable an area is running with populated npcs and lots of players.

- There is currently some force special that you can spam at every person even if not red towards you. It does no damage or effect but it creates massive lag. Getting rid of it for the time being or adjusting its time or anything would be an idea. I did not find out which special it was that was causing those massive lags but I am sure someone will know.



Thats all that I seem to think of at the moment, I will add more later. Its good to see btw that combat seems to be coming along and concentrating on it first seems to be the right thing to do. Get the hard and dynamic stuff done and then add gameplay features. Alot of naysayers always kept on saying it wont succeed they will never get combat to work anyways but at least the basics are now there, just missing out on the details so far :)

[OldMaster]

I'm admin of the only italian server, and I read swgemu forum every day. I never post here just because:
- I'm patiently waiting for a more complete emulator.
- I discuss with my friends on our personal forum.
- We know what we would like to see on our server.

First of all we want to decrease buffs effect and balance armor and Ham cost. It doesn't matter what you can say: Buffs, Armors and HAM cost were totally ubalanced. Then we're think about setting some restrictive limits to Jedi profession, and removing Covert status from the game, just to dramatically boost our GCW.

[Vanz]

My biggest worry is that I am going to get banned for saying the wrong thing. I know a lot of people feel this way.

I also think that giving us an insight into the development process would be great for developing the community. Theres only so much talking about pre-cu that can be done before everything becomes a repeat of something that has already been discussed.

Even if you just say "Hey, Just wanted to let yall know that we fixed XYZ, or we added XYZ." That would help a lot, because it gives people stuff to talk about. I personally run a community website for players from the Sunrunner Galaxy. I get people sending me PM's, emails, and peppering me with questions on ventrilo about SWGEmu on a daily basis. I love how interested people are, but there just isn't much I can tell them anymore. I mean, heck... There hasn't even been a progress update on the front page of this site in over a month... aside from the discussions about lag.

[ledhead]

add to the reasons there isn't much posting.


Forums have been wiped (loss of all posts) like 3-4 times (since I've been here)
In the whack-a-mole flame wars new people are the mole not the wacker.
Did you notice a lot of people stopped doing things when dev went closed source with no updates at all for like a month?
Admin's used to swing the ban stick like someone breaking a homerun record.
Dev's leaving with the paypal donations...


If there are communities forming they would be on the server sites not here. It's not the friendliest place and most people don't understand 1/2 of whats said here anyway.

just my .0002 credits...

[Niad]

My biggest worry is that I am going to get banned for saying the wrong thing. I know a lot of people feel this way.

I also think that giving us an insight into the development process would be great for developing the community. Theres only so much talking about pre-cu that can be done before everything becomes a repeat of something that has already been discussed.

Even if you just say "Hey, Just wanted to let yall know that we fixed XYZ, or we added XYZ." That would help a lot, because it gives people stuff to talk about. I personally run a community website for players from the Sunrunner Galaxy. I get people sending me PM's, emails, and peppering me with questions on ventrilo about SWGEmu on a daily basis. I love how interested people are, but there just isn't much I can tell them anymore. I mean, heck... There hasn't even been a progress update on the front page of this site in over a month... aside from the discussions about lag.

Im pretty sure we have all been told, as soon as something AWESOME has been implimented. The devs are as excited about it as we are!

[Ramsey]

The general concern has been random bans, which I will address now.

Our IRC ban list goes all the way back to like July of 2006. It is obviously irrelevant at this point in time, so what is going to happen is a clear of the ban list. There may be ISP wide bans to take out a single spammer back in september, but it could potentially ban other new members of the community who had nothing to do with it.

What I'm trying to do here is 100% my responsibility. Do not blame the shortfalls on other members of the staff. The Ban policy has been revised, and we will be a bit more considerate when banning.

The reason we have been banning in the past is not because were inconsiderate or hate particular members, its because we have been asked the same select few questions almost every day of our life for the last 2 years. But things will change, so bear with me.

As for other sugggestions, I have noted them down and I have been talking to a mod to organize the forums a bit better.

Stay tuned, and thank you for your input.
Ramsey

[gosh]

id love to give you feedback, just as soon as theres something to give you feed back on.

you got the emu working - pimp
got alot of **** done already - fantastic
lots of hard work - thanks!

but right now, its a partially-working test server that you can run around and spam lightsaber combat, and well, thats about it. i dont really have any comments on that, cuz it is what it is: an emu in development. im not going to be one of the *******s that is seriously impatient and just gripes, im patiently waiting for something to comment on.

i have a job, several projects in the works (some swg related), a wow guild i run, and a cs/bf2 clan i stop by every once in awhile. thats not counting the 12 other games installed on my puter (oblivion owns me), or my other hobbies that take up most of my free time. so i DO stop by daily to see whats what, but normally its nothing new, just general bsing about what ppl hope will be in the emulator once its done, and i dont really have anything to add to that discussion. and ive been yapping to my swg-cu buds about the emu too, maybe too much, as they ask me about it daily now, and i rarely have anything new to tell them.

gimme a version of the emu that i can start importing starship models into and id be happy as hell, cuz then at least i could be doing my part for the community by working on the ship pack i want to drop when the emu is done. until then, i sit and wait on my thumbs, as theres only so much i can do without having an actual testbed to work with.

sometimes ill hop on the test server, but not alot, cuz its rather boring. i understand its a stress test and all, but logging on and being sabered within 20 seconds, only to run back and repeat = not exactly something im going to do for an extended period of time.

hope this helps ya in some way ramsey.

[Turan Farsyth]

I browse the forums weekly but since I have little coding skill to add to the project I mostly don't say much. I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth and get called out for it. I am supportive of the project though as a precu swg vet.

[Chick3nWings]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss....You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

I hate to say it and hate to name names, but a huge part of your problem is Ultyma. I've seen him be abusive and disrepectful dozens of times of IRC.

The last time I had a conversation with him on irc, we were discussing donations. Within the next few minutes, I got (not exaggerating) six pm's telling me that people can't bring themselves to contribute because his behaviour is so offensive. Two of these people advised me not talk on IRC because if he (Ultyma) was in a bad mood, he would ban me for no reason.

I think if you want to salvage your reputation and build the community as you are describing, you need to address this issue.

[SkydiverIdaho]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

I think that if you do a bang up job with creature handler, you're going to get a lot of people like me coming to play the emu.
I don't care about jedi.
I care little for space.
I really couldn't care less for pvp.

What I loved about the game were my companions. I'm playing WoW atm, I tried playing a huntard but it couldn't hold a candle to what we lost with the NGE.
I tell anyone who seems willing to listen about what's going on here, and I've had a lot of people show serious interest. Most of them are refugees like myself.
I'll be very happy just sitting on some nice high hill with my pets, doing some tricks and just enjoying the world.

As for the IRC, every time I've gone in the channels it feels like the sword of Damocles is poised above my head. One innocent question and the thread breaks.

I'm not the biggest contributor to the community, mostly because at this stage of the game I don't feel like I have much to offer. I don't know coding. I've had more trouble than success at actually logging on to test animations. I've been waiting patiently and trying to get the word of the emu out there to some who might not know of it.

I'm not sure what else I could do at this point.

[Smannesman]

So far I haven't noticed any irrational banning behaviour and Ultyma (since you seem to be targeting him especially Chick3nWings) could've done so when I was trying to crack some sarcastic jokes.
You have to take into consideration that they've had a flood of newbies coming onto IRC/the forum just to ask the same questions over and over and over again.

"When will it be done?"
"What is the IP of the server?"
"Is the server up?"

And there is a tiny clue hidden in the topic which says something like "LOGIN: UP - ZONE: UP" and it also states where you should go should you need assistance.
Maybe they can be a bit harsh at times, but you would be slightly annoyed if people kept asking you the same questions about something you're not being paid to create, but you're creating because you want to.

So yes they could be slightly less cranky, but I do understand where they're (or perhaps were) coming from. I find it more objectable that some regular members flame those newbies.

[Legoklas]

Okay Ramsey hear out.
This forum was very active before you devs started to interfering with the communitys relations, no offense, but you devs are litterally scaring the living crap out of ous.
Especially when Ultyma had a "Ban everyone who disagrees with me" Rampage, and when he changed peoples posts with "Yeah i suck" "Iam gay" "Iam sorry Ultyma for being such a **** sucker" simply just becuse they disagreed with him or becuse they got sick of hes ban rampages.
Maybe iam the only one who feels like this, but i doubt it.

[Po-ooga]

Okay Ramsey hear out.
This forum was very active before you devs started to interfering with the communitys relations, no offense, but you devs are litterally scaring the living crap out of ous.
Especially when Ultyma had a "Ban everyone who disagrees with me" Rampage, and when he changed peoples posts with "Yeah i suck" "Iam gay" "Iam sorry Ultyma for being such a **** sucker" simply just becuse they disagreed with him or becuse they got sick of hes ban rampages.
Maybe iam the only one who feels like this, but i doubt it.

Everyone feels this way lol.

[Chick3nWings]

So far I haven't noticed any irrational banning behaviour and Ultyma

Well, that's great. Maybe things have improved. I wouldn't know because I got sick of watching it happen and don't go back.


You have to take into consideration that they've had a flood of newbies coming onto IRC/the forum just to ask the same questions over and over and over again.


I have two autistic children, so I know a thing or two about patience. I also know that losing your temper and taking it out on someone isn't ok, any more than being pestered by new people is an excuse for abusiveness.

[Legoklas]

Everyone feels this way lol.

Yeah i know that lol, but i cant really talk for everyone now can i? xD

[Niad]

The general concern has been random bans, which I will address now.

Our IRC ban list goes all the way back to like July of 2006. It is obviously irrelevant at this point in time, so what is going to happen is a clear of the ban list. There may be ISP wide bans to take out a single spammer back in september, but it could potentially ban other new members of the community who had nothing to do with it.

What I'm trying to do here is 100% my responsibility. Do not blame the shortfalls on other members of the staff. The Ban policy has been revised, and we will be a bit more considerate when banning.

The reason we have been banning in the past is not because were inconsiderate or hate particular members, its because we have been asked the same select few questions almost every day of our life for the last 2 years. But things will change, so bear with me.

As for other sugggestions, I have noted them down and I have been talking to a mod to organize the forums a bit better.

Stay tuned, and thank you for your input.
Ramsey

Whatever has happened in the past, obviously ramsey has noticed the problems and is willing to take them on himself to address the issues.

so lets turn this thread from a *****ing/complaining thread, To a constructive critisism thread. Lets tell ramsey and the other devs, what we think is wrong... and lets work with them to fix it.

This could be the start of an entirely new SWGEMU forums, as long as we are proactive and work together.

[phillipidies]

This is my first post on these forums even though I've been following the Emu for over a year (or there abouts). I check this site for updates almost daily but it seems that most of the info hits IRC way before it makes it to the forums. I'm 30, I have a job, a life, and stuff to do. I don't code even a little, and I've already found a sever to play on once this project is finished. I appreciate all of your hard work here, but other than updates I have no reason to even browse these forums at this time. I don't have the time or even the desire to hang out in IRC just waiting for the next little tid bit of info. What's more, is that I don't think I was an atypical player of SWG. Almost my entire guild on live were in the 22-40 age range and we all had other things going on in our lives. I don't want to be beligerent but this community is somewhat less than friendly and there's only so much "STFU NUB" and e-peen waving that I can take. It seems to me that the internet almost automaticly reduces people's functional age by at least 10 years. This is why I don't post, or hang out in IRC. This is why the dozen or so people that I talk to, who will be playing the Emu, don't post or participate in IRC. If you want the older crowd who made up a fairly sizable chunk of live to participate, my suggestion would be to update the forums more often. I don't know how big of a pain this would be, but it would certainly get me more involved. I may have just repeated what a dozen other people have said, but I'm not wading through 11 pages of responses, I really don't have the time. Thanks again though for all of the hard work you guys have done and best of luck in the future.

[Akelei]

Okay Ramsey hear out.
This forum was very active before you devs started to interfering with the communitys relations, no offense, but you devs are litterally scaring the living crap out of ous.
Especially when Ultyma had a "Ban everyone who disagrees with me" Rampage, and when he changed peoples posts with "Yeah i suck" "Iam gay" "Iam sorry Ultyma for being such a **** sucker" simply just becuse they disagreed with him or becuse they got sick of hes ban rampages.
Maybe iam the only one who feels like this, but i doubt it.


I actually agree. If you basically **** on your community (Sorry for language.) you really can't expect them to be very helpful in return. It's appaling to see you attacking the community for doing a "piss poor job" with incidents like the above happening not just occasionally, but pretty frequently.

[Legoklas]

so lets turn this thread from a *****ing/complaining thread, To a constructive critisism thread. Lets tell ramsey and the other devs, what we think is wrong... and lets work with them to fix it.
.
Isnt that exactly what we have done?
We have Critisised ( yeah english isnt my first language ) and we have told them what annoys ous.

I am banned from IRC cuse i asked a friend of mine if HE had snapped up something new about the EMU.
Then i mailed Ultyma and asked why the hell i was banned, yeah okay i wasnt really friendly but iam not an ass kisser and i got my honor.
So thanks to that, iam banned from the TC.
And iam not the only one.
I mean jesus christ there is even a "I hate Ultyma" website.
Ramsey, you got MY respect.
Iam not saying that you devs shouldnt be around the forum, what iam saying is that you devs really need to be absolutely Neutral.

[Chick3nWings]

so lets turn this thread from a *****ing/complaining thread, To a constructive critisism thread. Lets tell ramsey and the other devs, what we think is wrong... and lets work with them to fix it.


Well said, so let's see here:

Put some work into revamping the web site. It's your first line of communication with your community; make it something exciting and to be proud of.

Progress: post your project plan/schedule and keep it up to date. The people watching this site are asking questions about development because they are excited about the prospect of playing the game again. Play into that...give them the information and they will get even more excited when they see that tangible progress is being made.

Open the source back up. I don't know precisely what happened that brought about the decision to close the previously open source project, but the general rumor seemed to indicate that someone had stolen the code and claimed that it was theirs. Aside from the fact that you can't steal something that is freely available, who cares if they say they developed it? You don't stand to profit from developing the EMU so questions of ownership are nothing more than a matter of ego. People coming to this site don't care who developed what, all they want is the game itself.

Keep a test server up as often as possible. One of the things that differentiated swg from other games was it's social element. People would log in just to hang out and talk with their friends. Give that back to them.

Post your budget and donations. If people see what it is that you have to spend each month to keep this project alive and that there are shortfalls in the donations, they will give. People will also be more comfortable donating if they have some insight into what the money is being spent on.

Keep the forum FAQ's and newbie guides up to date. Task someone as the official writer if necessary to polish and keep up with the material and updates.

And keep up the efforts to reach out the community Ramsey, they will pay off.

-Wings

[Taaack]

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3244/designfortasksuk1.jpg


Possible Community Task Manager idea, to access that page you could have a link on the mainpage to say

www.swgemu.com/tasks

which would take you to a page designed in that manner, each of those task boxes is a button, you click on it and you are taken to the subforum for each task, where you can observe what's in progress, and know what is left in each subcategory. To avoid multiple people doing each task, you would POST a thread saying EXACTLY what you were going to look for, so that others would do something different. Once finished, a Dev/Mod could compile the information, and put it in the To Be Implemented category, and once put into Core 3, could then move on to Finished and Implemented (so you can see exactly whats in.)

[Legoklas]

Nice one Taaack
Looks like the skill trees ^^

[Naveed]

well i will echo a few of the things that have already been said. Mainly a fear of what will happen. Most of the people that come here have a knowledge of computers and programming that extends to installing the SWG disc's and logging in. Most don't understand how the EMU works, what is server side and what is client side, what can be changed, what cant be changed, and have no idea what scripting is. Every time someone asks a question that may seem obvious or way off base he is flamed by either a community member or even by a dev or moderator. This has gotten better recently but still exists. also many of the questions and topics have already been asked and asked multiple times. Honestly i think that the best thing that could be done would be to have a dev write a real FAQ and explain the ins and outs of programming the emu what can and cant be done and what some of the terms that get thrown around frequently mean. (This would of course take alot of time and effort which would detract from the EMU effort). But i think it is what would be needed.

Also perhaps a pre-determined moderated Q&A session on irc with the devs where people could pose questions to the mods who would then forward the relevant ones one at a time to the devs who could answer each one, no matter if they feel it is a "dumb" question or not.

When you are dealing with as many people as there are here in a field that is foreign(programming and advanced computing) to the core of what brought us together (the love of SWG) it will always seem like the people who don't know as much are the masses and those people need to be dealt with fairly.

Basically, i feel the community morale and attitude is poor. and, well attitude is a reflection of leadership. The best way to advance the community is by making everyone knowledgeable at the subject at hand and people learn at different speeds so the best way to do it is a ton of information that can be looked at in a concise format.

sorry for the poorly formatted thoughts but i just typed away.

Also Ramsey i feel you may have a slightly different view of certain aspects becuase you are here for the love of the EMU not the love of SWG, not trying to be an @$$ just trying to point out a possible differance.

When we have been asked to do things we have done them, there have been good responses to all the things we were asked to do including animation tests, stress tests and look at the responses to this thread

[Iehifeupie]

I agree, community is the key to a successful EMU.

But what we need is better forums. I have to say, these are not the best and they could be better. Maybe some new forums and a new layout/skin for the forums which i could help out with if needed.

Iehif.

[Geral]

Okay Ramsey hear out.
This forum was very active before you devs started to interfering with the communitys relations, no offense, but you devs are litterally scaring the living crap out of ous.
Especially when Ultyma had a "Ban everyone who disagrees with me" Rampage, and when he changed peoples posts with "Yeah i suck" "Iam gay" "Iam sorry Ultyma for being such a **** sucker" simply just becuse they disagreed with him or becuse they got sick of hes ban rampages.
Maybe iam the only one who feels like this, but i doubt it.

Hmm, he's been quiet. And I don't want to defend the people either because inevitably I'll be next. Now I know how people in some other countries feel.

I think with little minigame type events at the next stress test or every so many nights with scores posted, I think it'll do wonders at making a community.

[johnnydement]

Well, I would love to be able to add NPC live to player cities :D

Remove the citizenship restricitons for cities (give option to do better), this would allow people to create new non player cities

Have no idea on what is espected from entertainers and what can they do now, couldn't find the info...

Allow people not to be limited to 250 Skill points, one of the good things of late SWG was that politician did not take SP...

Post NGE additions will be playable? think rage of wookies was post NGe, as well as ben trials... I know htey are for new jedis, but the planets, locations, and all that would be nice to be usable

Basically I'm new to the forum, and I get lost at the overwhelming nuber of threads, I feel there's not enought 'swgemu for dummies' threads :D so I kinda wait for to be finished and have a nifty readme ;)

[shaggybgp]

Well, I would love to be able to add NPC live to player cities :D

Remove the citizenship restricitons for cities (give option to do better), this would allow people to create new non player cities

Have no idea on what is espected from entertainers and what can they do now, couldn't find the info...

Allow people not to be limited to 250 Skill points, one of the good things of late SWG was that politician did not take SP...

Post NGE additions will be playable? think rage of wookies was post NGe, as well as ben trials... I know htey are for new jedis, but the planets, locations, and all that would be nice to be usable

Basically I'm new to the forum, and I get lost at the overwhelming nuber of threads, I feel there's not enought 'swgemu for dummies' threads :D so I kinda wait for to be finished and have a nifty readme ;)


rage of the wookies was CU, trials of obi wan was NGE.

i would love to see both these planets implimented into a pre CU server, it would give that much more content to the game. ok i understand that with both rage and trials all the new quests were xp driven, and to change that would mean completly rewriting the code behind the quest, but it would be cool to see.

i do think some work needs to be done on the forums, like maybe get the rough timetable back in place so when you say you are working on such a thing people would be able to look and see roughly what is left to do, ok that will never relate to how long it will take to do it but it would give some idea.

like many of you out there i played SWG from just after beta, i had a pre CU jedi, i was close to getting my jedi pre pub 9, i loved the game back then, and cant wait to start playing the emu, i have told everyone i know that played the game back when i did and some that didnt about it, but the main question i keep getting and cannot answer is when will it be finished/go live, i would love to have some idea myself, i understand that even the simple things can take a very long time to sort out, it would just be cool to know that maybe by cristmas we will all be playing the game we all know and love in the way we all know and love.

[moyze]

i would try help but the problem is i dont know any of these commands your using for the testing and i wasnt about pre cu i was only pre nge

[Twisted]

i agree. each time someone posts an OPINION they get flamed. i stopped due to the nasty immuture comments i received from certain few. who wants to read that ..not me. as a community we should all stick together like a brotherhood or what ever you call it. we all are here for the same reason...to get back to the real swg.


agreed, to have a successfull community, we all need to learn to, as both ramsey and thadec put it, stop flaming people and help each other out. now, i dont' mean this in the context of spell out each thing when someone asks "how do I setup the EMU" but atleast point them in the right direction. I myself, have spoken to quite a few people on Lowca about the EMU, to see who knows about it, who is coming over to this side of the fence, and I see alot who are worried about the legality of it (even tho I try to explain it), others who are happy with the NGE, and those that who have already are here. some question the ability of it being able to be done (again, I tell them of how much progress has already been made). any one of my other friends who used to play I am no longer in touch with cause they left and I have no other means to get in contact with them. now, as far as the server goes, I have no idea what scriptable NPC's are or what can be done with them, but i have seen good suggestions coming from others like walls and roads for player cities, wanting to be sure battle fields work, wanting to see the possibility of getting jedi of holo or village (or combination of both), not sure if this apartments suggestion is valid but would be very nice to see it be implemented, being able to place items on the balconies of houses that have them (again, these are all suggestions from others, none are my own). I also would like to see the all the mods that never worked or never worked right, be fixed, loot tables to be adjustable, maybe some type of muti level access to the server (like full admin, partial admin, and low admin) so that the server admins can have help, but not have to give full access to everything on the server (like low admin can reset the server, but can't touch anything to do with loot tables). bout all I cna think of now. will post more if this is along the lines you were thinking of.

[OmaddaSzool]

Thanks Ramsey.
I honestly always thought that the Team was busy just replicating what the Pre-Cu was and that suggestions/ideas coming from us was not needed.

You don't have to tell this nut to offer suggestions more than once though... so, you have been warned, hehe. :D


Anyhoo...

I'm going to take some time and get some serious thoughts posted around here (And help and discuss with others a lot)... I'm actually excited by this because I enjoyed that sort of interaction with the original SWG team through the forums and whatnot (At least in JTL Beta, which was pretty solid... at least in my experiences there).


For now, I'll just mention that I really look forward to the scouting skills, the taming of wild creatures and immersion/role-play that this virtual world helped provide.


I'm all for helping make this community better... I honestly was under the impression that we had these forums mostly as a mindless distraction so that all the masses of fans wouldn't be pestering the actual Team... and that ideas/opinions/suggestions weren't really anything you were looking for from us.

;)

Thanks again!

[Twisted]

You don't have to tell this nut to offer suggestions more than once though... so, you have been warned, hehe.



as i stated previous....ive been warned...lol. yes i can get bitter...

[OmaddaSzool]

Hey, just to directly answer the two suggested questions...


What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs?

You know, I always thought SWG should have gone a bit more in the direction of giving players Game Mastering control (For player-created content).
After playing a game for years, it is great to be able to provide content for other players and for yourself.

So, namely... Spawing combat NPC's would be an enormous element of fun.

Being able to create a situation where a squad of storm troopers run towards your group of adventurers and start shooting is a great way of creating fun (As opposed to just getting mission terminals).

Being able to have scriptable NPC's that can be conversed with and that emote and offer different lines of dialog would be most welcome.


What are you looking for in a server?
Consistent, 24 hour service, regular maintenance and stability is of course what I mainly hope for.
Eventually, I am hoping to find a server with enough like-minded players to form solid gaming experience. A huge server with hundreds of consistant players would be great... but I would definitely enjoy a smaller server with regular players that all had many alts and some GM powers so that we could all mimic a larger server (Possibly auto-skill, resources and the like possibilities... if we do not have the numbers to create and sustain the virtual economy and interdependencies).

As far as I am concerned, I've done it all in SWG and I am okay with having a veteran server where... if you want to, get what you had with a few commands and just have yourself some fun (Don't take that the wrong way though... I will definitely be enjoying working some characters up from nothing... the old game was very fun in that way, in my opinion... and I will be doing that)
Then start focusing on role-playing and running major events.
With GM powers, the abilities for creating great player events and ongoing story arcs (Especially with a smaller server community)... we could develop NPC characters that turn into arch-enemies within ongoing story arc events and campaigns.
And, of course, all this is on top of what the game already originally offered (Which is fun all in itself).


Hopefully that gave some sort of insight.

[Progz]

I just this site like once a week for an update but I barley post on the forums and i dont have the emulator installed. Im waiting till when its release.... I CANT WAIT TO PLAY IT. Just like the old days...being a smuggler selling the drugs :D.

[blitz]

Well, it's hard for a community to come from behind the old reputation of being "harsh" to new comers. Especially from before. That reputation is still behind the community as well as the dev team. It's something that takes time to blow over.

[Magus Schneider]

well, i come here every 2 days. but i must confess that i read more than i write.

[Ramsey]

Hmm,

I don't see why you guys are bashing Ultyma when he is the reason you have half the things on TC. Sure he gets ticked off, but look at the reasons why. He gets asked the same questions over and over, and gets blamed for being impaitent when people send him "**** you's". Can you imagine how he feels about doing this project?

Ultyma is part of SWGEmu, so if there is a problem you blame SWGEmu.

Now, as I said, the ban policy has changed and I have asked ultyma as well as stated here that this community thing is MY responsibility. Don't point your fingers because its easy. You tell me that its ultyma's fault, nothing will get done because the ban problem has been fixed when I made this post.

I hope you guys know he reads these threads and is keeping quiet while you blow away at him.

I am asking for constructive ways to improve this project, not dwell in the past with "ultyma this, ultyma that". No one is being banned right now anyway, so I dont see what the problem is anymore.

[OenKnows]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum. PLEASE give suggestions, we read them. What do you want to be able to do with scriptable npcs? What are you looking for in a server? What if...

There are tons of things you can do to make SWGEmu better, without having to be on the staff. Just help others out and SHARE ideas. Don't wait for updates and post "good job" every month or so. You wont be banned if you follow the rules and be respectful.

If you want to know what we're working on:
Crafting (research)
Clustering (beginning in core3, oru's planning that I think)
Npcs/mobs (core3)

I was primarily a research guy but I'm learning the ropes of core3 to help TA and Oru. Once a few more things are added I will ask oru about doing another stress test with more content. But before that we need a stable community.

I've done this sort of thing twice before with little success, I'll have another go at it.

Suggestions?

Well the actions of the community leaders in the past have left most in fear of posting about anything related to swgemu. It is good that the community leaders seem to be doing a 180 on their approach toward the community, however, it might take more time to get the community to actually get used to the fact.

[KROM]

Most people get flamed because they cant read the faqs/guides, or search things on thier own.

Now seriusly, 90% of these questions are awnsered somewhere, and just looking through all the questions asked, i found an awnser in less than a minute (in most cases)

And when we tell these people to look it up for themselves (becaues not only is the information RIGHT there, it gets them into the habbit of looking instead of asking), they say they are too lazy to look it up. Now, tell me why we should be nice in this scenario.

Don't be nice. Tell them that laziness isn't rewarded here. Give them a link and send them on their way. Don't ban them after they ask the question. When you choose, and it is a choice, to run a community, there is the attached responsibility of nurturing that community. They could code this emu without the community. This was a choice. Live up to your end, I say.

[KROM]

I understand this may be interpreted as a flame, and so be it if that’s the case. But since no one else has said it and probably won’t out and that typical fear which seems to linger around of a ban, I will say it. I find it extremely ironic and I bet a large majority does as well, that your help pledge to the community for contribution begins with the above lines.

The fact many members have tried, consistently to do just what you’re talking about, being creating forum topics, and discussing in IRC numerous topics and what not. Only to be shut down by what could basically be summed up as elitist attitudes. The irony? That these very attitudes are backed up by what seems to be the core of the moderation staff within the emu.

Obviously change is needed, and I for one applaud you Ramsey for starting this initiative. For that, you have my respect.

Onto my point though, for change to be made, problems need to be named.

From a IRC perspective (I am a major idler, I idle almost 23 hours, with a minor connection interrupt whilst I change computers from home / work) and I do read the majority of what is said in #swgemu and #test. For what I do not read, I log it. Anyhow, from a pure IRC perspective change can begin with two active @’s in IRC.

Phantomleader – Many idlers think he’s a mere bot, I would have thought just that, except I surprisingly saw him posting him on the SWGEMU forums. Many of his actions in IRC consist of kicks from half ass reading of the IRC channel, alongside repeating the same thing over and over. He hardly contributes in there, it just seems he enjoys being a internet cop.

Ultyma - He seems to be the godsend of the elitist attitudes which thrive mostly in IRC, he never takes action against the rude or the flamers and mostly insults new members, kicks or bans them in a heartbeats nice. You say we need to build a community, you say recruit friends, build up interest Ramsey. How can we do that when they say something which doesn’t agree with Ultyma and they end up with a ban? It not only makes the swgemu project as a whole look bad, but it makes myself look bad to my friends.

My fingers are slightly tired now, but please, the above issues are critical to needing reviewing, we can then move on from there.

I said most of this in previous posts. I agree. But don't say people aren't telling mods and devs to shape up too. We are.

[Po-ooga]

Hmm,

I don't see why you guys are bashing Ultyma when he is the reason you have half the things on TC. Sure he gets ticked off, but look at the reasons why. He gets asked the same questions over and over, and gets blamed for being impaitent when people send him "**** you's". Can you imagine how he feels about doing this project?

Ultyma is part of SWGEmu, so if there is a problem you blame SWGEmu.

Now, as I said, the ban policy has changed and I have asked ultyma as well as stated here that this community thing is MY responsibility. Don't point your fingers because its easy. You tell me that its ultyma's fault, nothing will get done because the ban problem has been fixed when I made this post.

I hope you guys know he reads these threads and is keeping quiet while you blow away at him.

I am asking for constructive ways to improve this project, not dwell in the past with "ultyma this, ultyma that". No one is being banned right now anyway, so I dont see what the problem is anymore.


Was it IRC, or forums that was cleared? Or has it not happaned yet.

Since I'm still banned on IRC, and I think my Forum acount is stil banned too.

[NeroBailadoor]

Yes i have a suggestion. On many of the planets, you would be doing a mission for instance say you were doing a Pickett Lair on dantooine. More offen than not the lair would despawn in the middle of your mission. Im not sure exactly waht the issue was but maybe you guys could make sure that doesn't happen. That and also in precu and cu their were always error messages that said Can't KD Recover while KD.

[Pake]

How about creating a thread for specific suggestions? For instance perhaps a thread dedicated to what community members or future server opporators would like to see implemented as scriptible. These questions could have their own category and could be a way for the community to offer specific feedback to specific wants in the emu. Also after several suggestions are given you could take the most plosible ones and create poles to see which are most wanted. Could help with prioritizing suggestions, etc.

[Fallacy]

ive never even played SWG, ive just seen it played and i hear stories all the time of "the glory days" back when beign a jedi took an assload of work. WHICH IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!! i liek starwars and i support independent porgramming, im a programmer myself, not of your calibur, but nonetheless i try, and i support you guys all the way!! ****en rock on! so, i dont have much to offer, but i spread the word. i guess thats about the only way ill be able to help.

PS: dont bother flaming me for this, i wont check back to it.

[KROM]

Hmm,

I don't see why you guys are bashing Ultyma when he is the reason you have half the things on TC. Sure he gets ticked off, but look at the reasons why. He gets asked the same questions over and over, and gets blamed for being impaitent when people send him "**** you's". Can you imagine how he feels about doing this project?

Ultyma is part of SWGEmu, so if there is a problem you blame SWGEmu.

Now, as I said, the ban policy has changed and I have asked ultyma as well as stated here that this community thing is MY responsibility. Don't point your fingers because its easy. You tell me that its ultyma's fault, nothing will get done because the ban problem has been fixed when I made this post.

I hope you guys know he reads these threads and is keeping quiet while you blow away at him.

I am asking for constructive ways to improve this project, not dwell in the past with "ultyma this, ultyma that". No one is being banned right now anyway, so I dont see what the problem is anymore.

You told the community that they were screwing up. The community is replying with "We aren't the only ones." I think we can all learn some valuable lessons here and make some changes in the way we act. THAT will make for worlds of improvement.

[Dvol]

*On TC allow us to actually have the skills for the profession tree(when its possible of course) this is alot of content for many.Would also help resolve bugs and boredom issues..This would help if like one week was melee testing and next range so on and so forth.This can help with individual issues or random bugs.

*Forums- section specific based on whats being tested.Currently testing animations..Each section should remain open till that portion of testing is done..

*IRC-lord knows what will fix that mess..

I try to test things when i can not much else i can offer really other than that..I do appreciate what you guys are trying to do reguardless.But i read more than i post.Not that i dont want to help more just i feel it waste your time..Well i cant wait for the next updates so far things look promising..Thanks for the time and work you guys are putting in.

[audwin]

Sadly, I'm short on time, and thus unable to read every post in this thread to make the most informed, constructive post. Though I shall do my best with the 4 pages I did read.

As I've heard many suggest, being part of this community, to me, feels like walking on a thin layer of ice above a pit of spikes. I've been on some tough forums before, but this one literally frightens me. I'm still trying to get unbanned from the IRC, for doing absolutely nothing. I was idling, in the correct places, following all the rules, and suddenly Ultyma starts banning people, including me.

The first step to raising the community involvement in the Emu, would be trying to sooth these feelings. I understand that it's often hard to do, with all the flame-worthy noobs running around, starting fights, crowding the forums, and messing with the flow of IRC, but there has to be a balance between enforcement and acceptance. Between power of authority and level headed-ness

[Knuckles]

I think main reason people dont post here is...

1. Ultyma banning people for nothing
2. People posting suggestions to nerf DoT's,weaponry,comp armor etc
3. People who never actually played preCU coming with suggestions

Fix those 3 and you might get more posters

[Genraka]

We have 8k members I dont see why people don't get on IRC or create forum topics and discuss.



Well this is my first post, but i just wanted to say that the only reason why i choose to lurk the forums rather than join it is the atmosphere you guys have set up in the forums, i was afraid of getting banned, im sure im not the only lurker who feels the same way.

I was lurking these forums, checking your progress way back when you guys made your code open source, i was also there for the whole joker thing.

Well i will most likely continue to lurk, but i just wanted to say that and that i used to play in Ahazi as "Genraka Dirinson".
[EDIT] I just wanted to add that i used to play way back after the first week of SWG's Launch.

/wave

[IDRISCKY]

Phantomleader – Many idlers think he’s a mere bot, I would have thought just that, except I surprisingly saw him posting him on the SWGEMU forums. Many of his actions in IRC consist of kicks from half ass reading of the IRC channel, alongside repeating the same thing over and over. He hardly contributes in there, it just seems he enjoys being a internet cop.


I concur.

[Vreed]

Alright, I've patiently watched and waited as the one thing I want back in my game has been overlooked...
I want my MUSIC! Hehehe
Seriously. If I could play music on the test server, I'd be there all day, hanging out, playing those odd instruments that nobody really likes. That's what the entertainers do. You want a community? Let the entertainers do their thing. We'll clog up every availble area dancing/playing, and we'll give you all the feedback you could ever want or need.

I've never posted my desire for the music, however, cuz I figured you guys would get to it once the big stuff was taken care of, but you asked!

/beg "Please give me the music!"

Thanks for caring what we think, Devs!

[Naveed]

Hmm,

I don't see why you guys are bashing Ultyma when he is the reason you have half the things on TC. Sure he gets ticked off, but look at the reasons why. He gets asked the same questions over and over, and gets blamed for being impaitent when people send him "**** you's". Can you imagine how he feels about doing this project?

Ultyma is part of SWGEmu, so if there is a problem you blame SWGEmu.

Now, as I said, the ban policy has changed and I have asked ultyma as well as stated here that this community thing is MY responsibility. Don't point your fingers because its easy. You tell me that its ultyma's fault, nothing will get done because the ban problem has been fixed when I made this post.

I hope you guys know he reads these threads and is keeping quiet while you blow away at him.

I am asking for constructive ways to improve this project, not dwell in the past with "ultyma this, ultyma that". No one is being banned right now anyway, so I dont see what the problem is anymore.

i think everyone knows that Ultyma is a huge reason we have what we have but people still do not deserve to be mistreated. no one likes to have someone be rude to them. but you asked the questions and we gave the answers. all the things that Ultyma has done for the project does not give him the right to ignore the basic respect due to everyone. there are alot of server forums demonstrating great unity and getting great support because people feel wanted and respected there. Yes i can imagine everyday having to deal with the fact that you will never make everyone happy, no matter what you do. and that no one appreciates your effort but if he looks deeper he will find that is not the case everyone loves Ultymas dedication, effort and work he puts in its just his attitude people dont like. they are two seperate things.

[Smusatto]

Take on more forum staff and instruct them not to be so extremely hostile. Perhaps Smussato and especially Ultyma don't ban people for asking a question, but they sure do succeed in making the environment very unfriendly on the forums and on especially on IRC. I can give examples, but I'm sure you all know what I'm referring to.

Yes, please give examples of how I have made the environment "very unfriendly." I'd really like to know...

[PhantomLeader]

Same here. Please PM me with links/posts/logs/etc.

[KROM]

I see the forum problem as intolerant members. The IRC problem seems to be intolerant mods. I've had no problems, nor seen problems, with the forum mods since I joined this iteration of the forums.

[PhantomLeader]

The forum and the IRC mods are the same. What's your problem with the IRC mods, and which ones?
Also, which members do you have a problem with?

[DARKRL]

I've read posts since my last and I've noticed a lot of bashing of devs. Honestly I have had no problems with devs! The problem is lying in inpatient members or members who don't take the time to look up problems or look for other members who post they are willing to help! I congratulate Ultyma and all the devs for what they are doing and how well the handle impatience. The answer to this is for members who have hot tempers to grow up and gain a little patience and perspective. Plz it will make this alot easier.

For improving community relations, the biggest thing that can be done is weekly minimal updates. Mainly to keep the community talking and saying "OHHHH look what they did to day, YAAY!! Lets see how it worked and see how we can help"

[KROM]

The forum and the IRC mods are the same. What's your problem with the IRC mods, and which ones?
Also, which members do you have a problem with?

I've said in earlier posts taht people are banned and kicked form IRC all the time. Names have been given in a million posts so far.

As for the forums, go to the Future Ideas board and read the stuff from mon-thurs suggesting changes in the combat or jedi systems. You'll see the people who are nothing but boo birds. Pretty rampant.

[Ramsey]

I have cleared the gline list for IRC. Welcome back.

[audwin]

I have cleared the gline list for IRC. Welcome back.

Well, why thanks you, Ramsey. :D Smusatto and I had been working on and off for weeks, trying to get my IP to unban!

Thanks to the both of you gentlemen.

[KROM]

Well, why thanks you, Ramsey. :D Smusatto and I had been working on and off for weeks, trying to get my IP to unban!

Thanks to the both of you gentlemen.

Why were you banned?

[audwin]

Why were you banned?

It was an accident, as far as I know. Happened to a few people one night, a month or so ago. Ultyma banned one person for a valid reason, and for some reason a group got perma banned.

[apowerr]

I try to recruit people :)

[KROM]

It was an accident, as far as I know. Happened to a few people one night, a month or so ago. Ultyma banned one person for a valid reason, and for some reason a group got perma banned.

Likely because the entire isp was banned to prevent his return. An entire group was punished so he couldn't change his ip and return.

[Reead]

I'm very glad that this all came out. I think it's a healthy conversation very necessary for a community growing as fast as this one is.

When I joined the first SWGEmu forum, I was pretty afraid to post. I always felt like I would be eligable for the ban-bat if I spoke out of turn or something of the sort.

While I agree that many of us here need to be nicer and less insulting, to our credit this forum is much more inviting than previous ones. The Mods and the Devs seem to be much more laid back and generally easier to get along with.

I think we need to simply obliterate the remnants of the old system, so to speak.

If I had to make a suggestion, it would be to make the FAQ, and the Client & mIRC setup guides more easily accessable to someone who is just entering for the very first time. Remember, these are mostly ex pre-cu junkies who are so exhilliarated to see a glimpse of the old system that many are too excited to look for information in a forum they aren't yet familiar with.

So I suggest a large/medium sized link on the front page saying "GO HERE If You Are New to SWGEmu" or something to that effect, with a list of the most helpful newbie guides in the forum. I think that would eliminate many of the stupid questions we get.

Other than that, just answer questions guys. But at the same time, know what you're talking about yourself. Sometimes Im posting in the support forums to help someone, and someone else has already fed them flawed information. I still appreciate that people are taking time to answer them, but please don't mislead others, hehe :)

I too love the weekly/bi-weekly update idea, because every update will spark the discussion(s) that the Dev team wants to occur.

That's all for now. Keep this thread going! Very good ideas in here. Please don't be too hard on the Dev team, they do bust their rear ends on this project and I believe are seriously attempting to make the community less stringent and more enjoyable.

[Wedge]

I'm gonna have to chime in with the people who dont post due to flameage. I've just been reading dailey and keeping updated, but not posting due to not wanting to make waves.

[Vladlen1986]

If people stop flamming people who ask questions than we would most likely see a larger community. I notice that in at least every other post I see someone gets flammed to know extent. People need to lay low... griefers is what they are.

[aogvortex]

SWGEmu isn't going to succeed without a willing community. This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu.

Please encourage your friends who played precu to join and participate in dicussions on the forum.

I've been lurking for ... wow, I think about a year, but am only now getting around to registering so I can post.

Why? I've seen far too many people lashed out at on their first post because they missed some small point in the agreement. The zero tolerance for being human has always been very intimidating.

Yes, I tell people about the emu, but I've never recommended that they actually post here. Banning someone who's excited about the project because he asked when you're releasing is not building a community. It's getting people afraid to post. It was a mistake I very nearly made myself, simply because I was excited about the project.

After seeing a couple dozen of these I stopped visiting the forums at all. I'd only read the front news page. This was especially true after the Paypal fiasco.

[goldcrud]

Well I read the forums every day I just don't post I like to read the updates. If theirs any ways I can help I'll try to help.

[conjre]

Dreams is one thing, but posting nonsense or just posting whatever comes off the top of your head really doesn't help. Instead maybe think about what you want to say then put it together in a way that is constructive to the community as a whole or at least constructive towards one person.

[xomm]

personally i wouldnt get mad at the community ramsey. First website we had the community was insanely involved in my opinion then like some people have said above they got flame poo thrown at them so everyone backed down and thats the reputation emu team was stuck with. Hard mean jerks. But you guys have taken a turn in your attitude so slowly people are comming out of there hole.. imo

[Avelek]

Here's some input. I feel like you guys run the forums like nazis and are extremely unorganized, so I'm keeping my time uninvested. Prove me wrong, and perhaps I'll start to make more contributions, but as of right now expectations are low still.

[Neinonex]

To be honest, Oru and TA are the only people with real skills on this team. I'm not denying that Ultyma and Ramsey have skills, but they just lack in common sense. Its really sad to see their egotistical ways corrupting TA, and Oru as well. TA used to be a very nice person. But now he just participates in goofing off with the rest of them. How can you expect us to follow the rules when you do not follow them yourselves? There are plenty of examples of when they were very immature... Remember how Ultyma banned the first person that came in the test, and Ramsey and Seaseme laughed and got a real kick out of that? Yeah, thats real mature. I know I will not be in this community much longer. Believe me, I would love to see this community improve, but I seriously doubt that is going to happen. You want to hear the community feedback, but you are dissapointed when you dont like what you hear. The community has the real say in what goes on, without the community, your nothing.

[Silent Boba Fett]

Hmm lets see.

From the beginning the community was told it wasn't about them. It was about you and you wanting to play SWG. Since then numerous good folks have been banned or removed for questioning you. You've had one dev run off with a considerable amount of donation cash. You've driven off some good folks like Anzel. Hired nazis to patrol your forums. And snap at people if they say something in IRC you don't agree with.

Did I miss something?

We have been saying all along you can't treat the general community like **** and expect them to follow behind you.

And I think now you are seeing that.

A lot of folks are here because they want to play SWG again and are just waiting to see if you guys ever deliver. They don't want to talk to you. They really don't want to be part of your community. They just want to play swg again.

[Mandalore]

Maybe having an official progress/update thread that is posted every week at the same time. Would give everyone something to look forward to every week. Could be a video or a few screenshots just to keep everyone up to speed.

[Ramsey]

No one is being banned anymore, so I dont see why everyone is dwelling in the past. we've changed heh, Im asking how we can improve, not bashing what went wrong before.

[Po-ooga]

No one is being banned anymore, so I dont see why everyone is dwelling in the past. we've changed heh, Im asking how we can improve, not bashing what went wrong before.

Ramsey, I just got 10 minute banned.

[Neinonex]

My dear Ramsey, this is where you are wrong, Im afraid. You see, there is a 0.001% chance that Ultyma will EVER change his ways. He is too egotistical. And ban happy for that matter. He may have some skill in packet structuring, but all he likes to is be unkind in general. His favorite think is saying 'kthx.' then banning someone. Tell me you have never seen this happen. And you can NOT hide your past under a rug, its just not that simple. Like remember how you tried to get my *cough*anotheremuforumyoudontlike*cough* password, just so you can spy on them? Yeah, real mature. Like Miscillian said, try banning us. Your just disreguarding your post about no more bans. What a hypocrite.

[Meo]

First of all STOP the dev bashing! its not helping.
Last, isnt asking for posts for the devs to troll through then try and implement a little premature? Lets just start with a server. Easy to get to and Permanent. Your community will follow.

[Silent Boba Fett]

No one is being banned anymore, so I dont see why everyone is dwelling in the past. we've changed heh, Im asking how we can improve, not bashing what went wrong before.

No offense man, but you guys do the "no really we've changed! we'll do better" thing more than SOE did.

[darthlogan]

errr... i mean, it been like what, almost 3 years?? if all the past forums databased could been recovered u could practicaly answer all the questions with "... use the search batton dude..." or "read the FAQ". Like general stuff, themes of conversations gets old, simply as that. Like most of the developers, mods, admis, people have move on, got married and childrens. U can only keep people on the edge of their seats for a time, then as me, i just come by a couple of times a month to see how things r doing.

And btw, why try to revive the forums if Ultyma likes the irc better...? nuff said.

[Ramsey]

conjre, your ban was an acidental auto script. check your pms.


No offense man, but you guys do the "no really we've changed! we'll do better" thing more than SOE did.


We arent soe, which is why we're opening up to opinions. If you dont give things a chance things will never change.

We dont ban those who do not deserve it, which is fair.

[conjre]

Thank you very much Ramsey, gotcha.

[gusy]

If you want a better community, Make a better website with better forums.

[Newsound]

I think part of the problem is that there is the thinking of that all members of the forum and community visit the IRC channels. I have gone to the IRC channels bot only while dinking around on stress tests. I just kind of assumed if things were being discussed on IRC they would make there way to the forums too. I guess not?

I can think of 2 main faults as to issues with the community.

1) Everyone who is interested playing a swg emu has above average computer knowlage.

2) People are interested and also versed in participating with IRC/mIRC.


If information is easy to access and easy to understand the more people will become interested.

just my 2 cents

[na85]

Props to Ramsey, Smusatto, and PhantomLeader for taking the high road and dealing with this thread in a mature manner.

You guys have my respect, it takes fortitude to listen to this sort of thing.

[Ashur]

Thats good to hear, but i thought that we shouldnt ask too many questions about this emu, i thought leaving you guys alone so you can work in peace, was what you wanted, all i want is that you guys (devs) are happy in what you are doing.

i think the community is tired of waiting for the emu to come out (since human beings arent as patient as they should be) but i believe once the Emu is ready for beta, or is completed, the community will grow like a Mofo.

and can you devs check how many different IP's log into this site weekly or daily. i bet youll see a extremly higher number then that of the active forum users.

and about the IRC, each time ive logged in, i thought that i shouldnt ask you guys questions, (specially about the things im concerned about in this game) since they are more or less up to the guys hosting the server.

again, i wish you good luck with the emu, but dont worry about the community, we are all here. its just that we have more lurkers then posters.

[endless]

First off, you guys have done a wonderful job on the emu project. As lot of people stated above, there is a level of intimidation new users get when they see a load of locked threads with questions that appear to be GOOD questions. So with that said, here's a few recommendations:


Delete locked threads to make the forums look appealing to new comers.

Revise your faq. Give a timeline (even if it's a loose time-frame and update it when needed) so that new users have a sense of what's to come.

Dont make IRC a must have to get the latest information on the emu. If you want the masses to come to you, understand that IRC chat is a dinosaur chat system that isnt easy for everyone to use.

and finally:

Who is going to want to join a community where its leaders put this crapola on the front page:

"This community is doing a piss poor job of working to build a better community for the future precu."

Making this community new-user friendly is they key my friend. Give us the tools and provide us with clear answers on the status of development and you will see your community thrive with little managment needed.

A donating member,

endless

[QuiBonJen]

No one is being banned anymore, so I dont see why everyone is dwelling in the past. we've changed heh, Im asking how we can improve, not bashing what went wrong before.


well except for thoughs that are really trying to get banned to prove that you haven't change.. when in fact there has been a big change for the better... I don't get why some people cant just play well with others lol

[Damean1]

Thank you for responding to our complaints about banning, and I just wish to say, I wasn't trying to pick on Ultyma. I was simply stating the problem as I saw it, I mentioned him in particular because there were obvious posts already on the forums that I could use to prove my point and that others, yourself included, could readily confirm. I understand the same questions are asked repeatedly, I get frustrated with nubs in all the online games I play, it's the way of the internet. I was simply saying that tolerance is in order, not that I hate anyone, just that I'd prefer to see someone say "I'm not going to dignify that with and answer" or "I've had enough of you, be gone" than "I wasn't talking to you, idiot!". Once again I thank you for addressing the issue, and I look forward to seeing how things go.

To move on to happier subjects, I keep up with the forums all I can, but I've only logged onto the TC once, because I'm not completely knowledgable about how things work. I personally eagerly await the implementation of JTL, it's the real reason I've always loved SWG, no other MMO can hang with that. Granted EVE has space, but it'll never compare with the control, customization and speed JTL brings to the table. I know most people are more concerned about ground combat, so I'll continue to wait patiently.

I have heard many ideas for space I like, Gosh mentioned creating new ship model, which I have to say is awesome, and I wish you much luck on that project. I'd like to maybe see the top speed cap raised for starfighter engines, and I really appreciated what was done to raise all of the elite POB component's stats last year (I think it was last year) in SWG. In short, as soon as I have space content to think about and comment on you won't be able to shut me up, until then I'm sure there are many other people who are more knowledgable and have a deeper love and appreciation for ground combat than I.

[Gortz]

Nice, well I think half the problem is that whenever a new guy comes in and asks a question he gets the living poo flamed out of him. Do you really think that half the new people will read the sticked posts/threads/w.e...? ffs, i've seen some mods flame new people... that isn't very beneficial to the community either... just my two cents:mad:

QFE this sums this whole thing up.

When u did testing it at first select few, then it was opened up but how to get into the server was never explained properly and post said if you dont know how to do - dont ask...

You are now crossing over from developers to marketing, you want people to sign to the game and suggest, yet you havent shown the community that is gonna make all your hard work worth while some guidance.

Im not flaming you guys, just mearly advising to perhaps working on your marketing pitch and making things more accessiable to new posters or players in a friendly and almost "idiot guide" style.

After all - yes ur making the game we all loved but on flip side without us behind you all youve really done is learnt c++

in short time to get user and even idiot friendly..

[wookieface]

umm says 15k members on my screen sooo ya

your screen must be broken ... :p

[pretender]

Thank you for your input Anakis.

So what I have gathered so far to improve is:
-bi monthly Q/A Sessions.
-Weekly updates.
-Advertisement of project.
-Lenient Moderation.
-Community participation in helping new members.
-Compilation of ways the community can help.

Keep the suggestions coming.

well, im not a game programmer,yet:p but im working on my degree. all the questions that people ask and it get answered. may a top line sticky and keep it up dated. make the title:

Questions from new players answered by staff and veteran posters!!

and maybe that will reduce the repeated question somewhat.

as far as flamming goes to the new player, hell i get flammed on a daily basis on the SOE's website, and not just from the players:eek:

[Chick3nWings]

I don't see why you guys are bashing Ultyma when he is the reason you have half the things on TC.

You are saying his accomplishments excuse abusiveness?

[flas]

You are saying his accomplishments excuse abusiveness?

This is one reason why u all have no community U let things happen that shouldnt. Not ever should no treat others like ulti does. I'm sure u all get asked the same ques. all the time isnt that what u all kinda signed up for when u took on this project. Get some people to be your lightning rods if u cant control yourselfs. U say u have changed. U cant change overnight it takes time to build up trust. U all have a uproad journey to undertake now that u have let the Vid screen bullies take over IRC and Forums. No one to blame but yourselfs.

[synapticAI]

There's something to be said about the current state of affairs if you have to basically command your users to produce meaningful feedback.

I'm with the camp that is overtly excited about playing Pre-CU, but is covertly weary over the developers lack of productive community relations and tact.

Yes programming is hard, yes it's time consuming, but it isn't ****ing Defcon 1 around here; when you people make this project seem like some secret black ops project, it's gets to be kind of discouraging to feel excited about it.

Devs, learn a lesson from other projects, especially ones from the open source community and other free software outlets.

Look at the Haiku OS project web-page, they are a perfect example of how to keep the community informed and interested. I have been involved in that community for over 6 years. I've watched it grow from just an idea into a stable alpha and soon a beta, and it was FUN to watch it grow, and that's my point, that the community COULD watch it grow, because the devs made it totally transparent and made every effort to SHOW us what they were doing and when, even if it was mundane or ubiquitous.

Make a chart, on the left list the major hurdles, on the top put Progress, and then have a bar 10 cells long, and then color in a cell every time the devs feel they've made an accomplishment in that area; EASY!

Get a clue; show us EXACTLY what we should be excited about at any given point along the line. THEN you'll have positive and excited feedback rolling on in, along with excited donors who know your not just jerking them off.

[greenghost]

The progress bars for progress on the major components in the game sounds like an awesome idea. maby markers on it at staggered increments, starting wth not working, maby 5 as basics working and 10 very functional, 15 a few small bugs, 20 perfect. Perhaps somethin like that, shorter/longer, more points something to show how individual parts are coming along. Bars for the backend stuff you workon that is barely noticed when playing would be good too.

any sort of updates on a regular basis would be apreciated


/salute devs

[Jay Hova]

I'll tell this from the point of view of someone who never posts, I log on this website to check if there are any updates then get off, probably alot of people are like this. I'd get on IRC if I had my computer at the moment but I'm using a different one.

[synapticAI]

How about something like THIS for the EMU?

http://dev.haiku-os.org/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&group=component&type=enhancement&order=priority

That is the dev-log or "TASK OVERVIEW" for the Haiku OS project I mentioned.

Everyone should look at this; we should get a vote thread going on this, someone get one up.

[goldcrud]

I'll tell this from the point of view of someone who never posts, I log on this website to check if there are any updates then get off, probably alot of people are like this. I'd get on IRC if I had my computer at the moment but I'm using a different one.
Same here my computer atm is fed up so I have to use a mac and the person doesn't want me to put IRC on it. I'd get on IRC otherwise and I'd been playing SWGEmu and testing stuff out.

[Raiyden]

Nice, well I think half the problem is that whenever a new guy comes in and asks a question he gets the living poo flamed out of him. Do you really think that half the new people will read the sticked posts/threads/w.e...? ffs, i've seen some mods flame new people... that isn't very beneficial to the community either... just my two cents:mad:

This is the reason I don't post very much anymore, I'm tired of fighting for the new members everytime they get flamed, it just results in myself getting insulted for sticking up for new members. New members are bound to be ignorant of certain issues or ideas. Generally the mods have got much better since the old forums, but even a lot of the older members here flame new members to death, and there seems to be some concept for these people that they will win brownie points with the devs by flaming the newer more ignorant members. It may not be related to how the mods generally act now, but because of the past behaviour of the old mods, its really effected the community and the way they react to new members. Just my thoughts, I don't want to stir up trouble, I just think this is the fundamental problem your having with the community.

[Ramsey]

No its not an excuse, read my post.

You are bashing him without suggesting reasons to improve on our end.


I checked out that Haiku project and essentially its just like what we have internally. That type of bug checking system really only works for code, not for research items. Im sure a general wiki of some sort would work better.

[Rudy]

People shouldn't be bashing ultyma. Who can blame the guy for getting pissed off? If you were putting in huge amounts of time into a free project that you weren't getting **** for and people always *****ed and moaned, I'd get pissed too.

You have to remember he is making this happen. No matter how much people complain about him, without him the Dev team would suffer a huge if not crippling loss. The same can be said for Ramsey and Oru. These guys deserve the utmost respect.

To the devs- you are doing a great job. Don't let the little e-kiddies piss you off. If they have nothing better to do than go on the forums and flame you guys, feel sorry for them. They arent even worth the trouble.

You have a huge fan base of people who actually support you. Remember most of the people aren't like the morons who flame on these boards.

I think more "How would you feel about this" threads would help the suggestions. Things like the combat animation thread. You seemed to get a ton of feedback from that. Let us know what you want feedback on and there will be plenty of people that will want to post.

[Matt FL]

I think that we have more people waiting to play the emu then 8k. Plenty of people are already posting on the forums for soon-to-be-precu servers. Like I post a lot on the TrueGalaxies forums because they will be the ones that affect how the pre-cu I play will be like.

[NmK-Killa]

first off, i believe the crafting system would be best kept as it was in pre-cu...experimentation tapes are a must also..ect...npc should have the full range of actions that they had before and it would be cool if we had some sort of neat quests to do every now n then from random ones that acually led to something... like remember those dudes out in the middle of nowhere that will give you a quest to help them with something..and it turned out to be BS...lets have that but not BS...More Factional stuff too...like the thing they did recently with certain areas with the points....rebel takes over theed or imp after a certain ammount of points..that was neat...gave sort of more a purpose to pvp...bases that arent bugged out and work...ect...i believe pvp is guna be a big want in this emu...crafting will always fall into a must due to armor..houses..foods...ect ect...so pvp and crafting...i have no idea what clustering is but i assume its with the server controlling the worlds flow of people ect? not sure...yea

[Legoklas]

Okay improvements, umm.
Maybe alittle more "Modern" site, you know what they say about first impressions right?

Oh and some events on the TC, more people will come and therefore more bugs and **** will be found.

Ill start my Waterpipe and some reggae music, maybe i can think of something else.

[pedrohsi]

nm, thanks for clarification

[Ramsey]

Read my post a couple pages ago. I cleared the gline (ban) list on irc.

[jinxit]

You know its shocking how many times ive seen someone be flamed on this forum for making a suggestion or a general query, the usual reply goes that this "haha you noob only 20 posts haha go back to WoW!" witch is strange because frankly practicly every member is a seasoned swg vet player with just as much experience with the game and forum ways as anyone else also we seem to be in a discussion loop over topics that dont generally need any input eg. the way to jedi" *sigh* whats the point in talking about changing something that would drasticly alter the precu play? the base game should stay the same otherwise youd be making a NGE version 2.0.

Ok rant over :D