TC:NOVA Wipe Poll Results

[quadkidd02]

The staff changed the poll just enough to give the true majority 65% of the pre-rounding whole-number vote percentages, rather than 66% of the vote.

66.95% before poll "closed," 66.36% after poll "closed."

It was > 66% before and after the poll "closed."

[safak]

The staff changed the poll just enough to give the true majority 65% of the pre-rounding whole-number vote percentages, rather than 66% of the vote.

and thats just what i caught at the tail end. the numbers were going in ways that really isn't possible most of the day which is why i started watching it at the end. it would get 200 votes and remain steady, then 30 and the percentage would change dramaticaly..so bulks of votes at a time were obviously used more than once.

[Lamune]

The staff changed the poll just enough to give the true majority 65% of the vote, rather than 66% of the vote.

You mean 66% of the vote, instead of 67%. The results never fell below the 'threshhold' everyone was pushing for, even after the alleged and still otherwise completely pointless 'tampering.'

(Amusingly, did anyone else notice all the people voting 'no' insisting it was unfair to end the poll suddenly and how it had to run the full time, but were completely ready to close the thing as a "victory" the second the results dropped below 66%- thus closing off any additional votes? :D)

I think this sums up the staff....

Innocent victims of a conspiracy theory thought up by those who are confused by numbers?

[Joshino]

The staff changed the poll just enough to give the true majority 65% of the pre-rounding whole-number vote percentages, rather than 66% of the vote.

Tbh this thread is gonna be ninja deleted or the posts are gonna be removed or they'll make an excuse imo.

Also everyone is gonna get mega infractions.

[chajomi]

The bottom line is it doesn't help them roll out a finished version any sooner. It would have made things more enjoyable for a lot of people who are playing right now, but the test center isn't built for playing. If the devs think the right thing is to not spend their time with a wipe then thats what is best.

[Ekowraith]

66.95% before poll "closed," 66.36% after poll "closed."

It was > 66% before and after the poll "closed."

Yeah, I understand that. I was only talking about the whole numbers before rounding (an error to which the SWGEmu layman is potentially prone) and offering a potential motive for what was obviously meddling.

[Caelera]

I checked the poll just before it was taken down but already closed. The majority had 66.5% so they did not change the poll. Based on the amount of folks who cheat to prove their point or get what they want here, I wouldn't believe all these 'pictures' or whatnot. If the poll had been changed BEFORE it was closed, they might have a point but it wasn't. The majority had yes at the time the poll was closed and that didn't change.

The people who post here are not credible anymore. Some of you might say the same of the developers, who I must admit, never should have posted that poll, but I imagine they honestly didn't realize people would cheat on a poll. Rather than blaming the developers, why don't you look at your fellow players who couldn't stand to let the majority win fairly.

[Valdosemu]

You mean 66% of the vote, instead of 67%. The results never fell below the 'threshhold' everyone was pushing for, even after the alleged and still otherwise completely pointless 'tampering.'

(Amusingly, did anyone else notice all the people voting 'no' insisting it was unfair to end the poll suddenly and how it had to run the full time, but were completely ready to close the thing as a "victory" the second the results dropped below 66%- thus closing off any additional votes? :D)

I noticed this. :lightsaber:

[Sarsarmarut]

In no way am I going to flame or QQ about the decision that was made because frankly I have only been playing in EMU now for about a week, that being said I would like to state that the inflation at this time is very high and understanding that it will eventually even out and that the credits will work there way out of the system over time. It is currently very frustrating for someone to get off the ground and I would very much like to see everything reset for a few months before the next wipe. Is that not the purpose of a TC?

[Duchess]

Wow, guys, come on. If they had had a wipe who knows what would have happened and we won't until they do. Yes, some people donated, but at least your donation money isn't going towards some GMs drug addiction, right? :P
I really didn't mind if there had been a wipe and I would have lived with the blue frogs, but the reason they canceled everything is that the votes were messed up. Yes, that meant that nothing changed, but it doesn't mean nothing will. If the Devs decide otherwise I don't care.
Also, I thought double sunglasses was like a Newgrounds thing.
I really don't think the Devs were trying to be controlling but they were caught between a krayt dragon and a rancor. Ok, bad analogy.
Either way they were going to be ripped for their decision and even if they did cancel the poll because of fraudulent votes (people logging onto different university computers or connecting to neighbor's hot spots) they technically can't implement something they needed votes on the first place.
Yes, people are cheating, but maybe it is up to us to work together and do our best to keep the economy going. If it means I go out and train some skills and make good products that are affordable then so be it. I think it is more rewarding to help your fellow gamer than to dupe a million credits just so I can feel better about not being a real millionaire.
Of course, if I'm wrong, and the Devs had some ingenious, yet poorly worked out, plan to divide us and make us look stupid, then I say, that sucks. Turn the other cheek, just don't forget to wipe.

[quadkidd02]

Tbh this thread is gonna be ninja deleted or the posts are gonna be removed or they'll make an excuse imo.

Also everyone is gonna get mega infractions.

I understand computers very well and I don't like it when things become "impossible under 'normal' circumstances.

So if the devs, mods, gms, and admins would like to enforce mega infractions on me; feel free to do so.

I know I'm not wrong, this is what I do for a living. Working on websites and make sure software works "as-advertised."

So if they feel I should be punished for taking a closer look at what happened, do so I won't complain.

[Yhor]

The bottom line is it doesn't help them roll out a finished version any sooner. It would have made things more enjoyable for a lot of people who are playing right now, but the test center isn't built for playing. If the devs think the right thing is to not spend their time with a wipe then thats what is best.

NO.

The bottom line is.. they said one thing and did the opposite. If they weren't prepared to follow through with whatever the results came out as, they should've left it the heII alone.

A complete loss of any credibility.

Speaking about starting the polls in the first place.. never mind the screwed with results.

[Gray Mouser]

Tbh this thread is gonna be ninja deleted or the posts are gonna be removed or they'll make an excuse imo.

Also everyone is gonna get mega infractions.

Of anyone, at least you should for the furry pornographic picture of the gandalf frog's vagine. It's seriously disgusting.

[Jengu-fet]

and thats just what i caught at the tail end. the numbers were going in ways that really isn't possible most of the day which is why i started watching it at the end. it would get 200 votes and remain steady, then 30 and the percentage would change dramaticaly..so bulks of votes at a time were obviously used more than once.


(Amusingly, did anyone else notice all the people voting 'no' insisting it was unfair to end the poll suddenly and how it had to run the full time, but were completely ready to close the thing as a "victory" the second the results dropped below 66%- thus closing off any additional votes? :D)

There is a possibility that one of the devs/mods tampered with the votes and another member of the team found out. This would explain the fluctuating % during the day and staying around 66%. It would also explain why the poll was closed + deleted (or moved to private forum) so suddenly when they previously said it would be up for 1-2 weeks.

Also this,
Kyle still hasn't denied urging people in IRC to create accounts and vote NO, lol. I guess it's true.

[Ketzal]

....aaaand the whiners win again. Seems the crying tactics that ruined live are being used here.

The same people who duped holocrons, items, and credits are most likely the ones creating new accounts to vote no on the wipe and crying about their ill-gotten gains being taken away. From the poll, it was pretty clear that only a small percentage of players stated that they would not play if the server were wiped; I believe this number would be even smaller since some would probably still play regardless of what they stated in the poll. You are catering to a small percentage of the population that is not concerned with reporting glitches and bugs but rather exploiting them for their own short-term gains while cheating the community.

This is a test server, when there is a bug or problem, you fix it. There were problems that resulted in an unbalanced economy and game, they should be fixed.

[SinisterCowboy]

I have a novel idea...quit taking polls and work on the OR....???? Like others had said, smells like SOE bull****....Quit acting like a bunch of tard kids and work on the OR....if people wanted polls and kid games, they'd still be playing the NGE.....regardless of a wipe or not, the devs have their pets who are shown how to dupe...it happens with publishers and will happen with the Emu...that's part of playing any game...live with it or don't play...but taking a poll and not carrying through with the majority is bull**** and the same bull**** that will drive peopel away...WORK ON THE OR and quit pissing around

[Spun]

Kyle still hasn't denied urging people in IRC to create accounts and vote NO, lol. I guess it's true.

[Shofu]

I wanted to add poll results to this but it looks like that thread was ninja deleted.

EDIT:

Lucky for us, someone was smart enough to take a screen shot...

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8639/pollaminutebeforeclose.png

And did you not read how a 66.6% majority was needed for a wipe? This was a righteous decision.

GOOD JOB DEVS! Forget this nonsense, and roll on with the OR. Then will we wipe this sandbox and get on with the real work!!!

mmmh itz more than 66.6% ..but ... who cares ....
stop QQ ... have fun sitting arround ... or check out other profs ..while waiting for the OR ..

[kookaburra]

Its not the lack of a wipe that has made people upset.

Its the fact we had to go through these last 2 days when there was ZERO percent chance of a wipe ever happening to begin with.

[Ekowraith]

The same people who duped holocrons, items, and credits are most likely the ones creating new accounts to vote no on the wipe and crying about their ill-gotten gains being taken away.


Yep. It'd be like holding a referendum: "Should people who threaten others at the ballot box be held accountable for their crimes? Y/N?". The outcome would very likely be illegitimate.

In most cases, closing a poll on the basis of people doubling accounts to vote is already absurd because the illegitimate votes are as likely to be "yes" as they are "no". But in this case it's especially heinous because the individuals who have a history of unfair play in this community would have something to gain by voting "no". To close the polls due to foul play and decide in favor of the minority who was more likely to be duping votes is senseless, unfair, and rewarding bad behavior.

[Lamune]

I'm going to dupe Duchess.
We need more wookiee ladies.

[reidski182]

gahahaha this is sad. if you gonna wipe, do it now before i was any more time or become a raging lunatic cause idk where my life is going. but thats just me. so should my friend stop harvesting materials or what? would like to know. on the other hand, i will keep wasting my time if you give us blue frogs.

moral: now or never. </rage>

[Darksand]

Thank you very much.

[Spun]

gahahaha this is sad. if you gonna wipe, do it now before i was any more time or become a raging lunatic cause idk where my life is going. but thats just me. so should my friend stop harvesting materials or what? would like to know. on the other hand, i will keep wasting my time if you give us blue frogs.

moral: now or never. </rage>

There is no wipe we got George Bushed.

[Z Ray]

Not following through on what the majority wanted in the poll was a mistake. That means you pissed off the majority of the community.

Who decided to have a poll anyways? Should have just been wiped.

This is no different than SOE. Catering to the little kids that can't handle a wipe, that are in the minority no less.

I had little faith in the team before, now I really don't and know I know why Ekaika left, I would have to. Bunch of fools.

[Lemi Okeefe]

If this server is just here as a place holder to test out the server limits etc...

just add in the Blue Frogs for those of us that are new here so that we may skip over the grind and play at the higher level.

[Duchess]

I have to say I feel bad for those who were a bit impulsive and sold their stuff off (not sure why, I mean, what's the point to make money if it was going to be wiped?) and this whole poll business did kill things in game for 2 days, but hopefully it won't have any lasting effects. Yeah, this pissed people off, but we're lucky to have SWGemu. I just don't see a reason to get upset or take things personally. Well, time to get some stuff done in-game-- socialize, help people out, you know, everything an MMO is about.

[Budias]

Well said Eko, well said

[Gray Mouser]

Thanks to the really, really elite highest-end people that duped themselves into boredom, the whole community is now dealing with this psychic shadow.

The thing is, with all the drama and childishness, it's not any worse than any other mmo I've ever played. How could any of you with any experience say with a straight face that this is anything less than you imagined would happen given the circumstances?

What surprises me the most is the surprise. Of course there's going to be flaming but mostly cooler heads prevailed and there was a lot of rollicking discussion going on. In the end, the developers have done the right thing in my opinion, and time heals all wounds.

Here's looking forward to the OR with an actual crafted economy in place! (Which would not have existed in any decent form for at least another 4 months, if then.)

[Baigs]

when I went to bed last night it was 75% for the wipe today it had dropped to 66% everyone is zeroing in on possible fraudulent no votes, but what about fraudulent yes votes? Padding had to go on on both sides as the comfort Margin started to plummet.

Dev did what they thought was right and called the poll null and void do to cheating.

Yet everyone is content to slam the devs instead of looking at those who are the real problem.

And those requesting to learn how to dupe and all.. I hope your banned.

[reidski182]

gahahaha this is sad. If you gonna wipe, do it now before i was any more time or become a raging lunatic cause idk where my life is going. But thats just me. So should my friend stop harvesting materials or what? Would like to know. On the other hand, i will keep wasting my time if you give us blue frogs.

Moral: Now or never. </rage>

there is no wipe we got george bushed.

fml

[Duchess]

I'm going to dupe Duchess.
We need more wookiee ladies.

LOL! Two of me would crash the server.

[Lamune]

And those requesting to learn how to dupe and all.. I hope your banned.

That'd be kind of funny, considering a group of people who did enough damage to **** an entire server to the point of this kind of outrage are still here.

[quadkidd02]

That'd be kind of funny, considering a group of people who did enough damage to **** an entire server to the point of this kind of outrage are still here.

One word: BOOM!

[Arnold47525]

We won nothing except a screwed up economy where no one but the ones that duped credits/items can afford to buy what is needed.

I don't own duped items/credits either and can't effort some things I'd like to get, good armor, better weapon, Mineral Mining Installations, medium Tatooine house... Do you hear me moan about?

With all half done the economy would just move up again to the screwed state we already have. Much sooner because some credit consuming items would have left out.
BTW, I did play on the NGE lately, they have a fully set up economy with all the things we don't have by now which take the credits out of the system. If you think the prices here on the TC are insane, visit FarStar and see what some poeople charge for a noob CDEF Pistol.

Had put up 10 Swoops (2402HP) yesterday and just catched one buying all in a row and resold it for 14,5k. Should say it all. It isn't the economy that is broken, it's the poor attitude of some griefers that is screwing the economy.
Wipe or no wipe, that wouldn't change a thing unless you'll be able to wipe that poor attitude.

[Spun]

I don't own duped items/credits either and can't effort some things I'd like to get, good armor, better weapon, Mineral Mining Installations, medium Tatooine house... Do you hear me moan about?

With all half done the economy would just move up again to the screwed state we already have. Much sooner because some credit consuming items would have left out.
BTW, I did play on the NGE lately, they have a fully set up economy with all the things we don't have by now which take the credits out of the system. If you think the prices here on the TC are insane, visit FarStar and see what some poeople charge for a noob CDEF Pistol.

Had put up 10 Swoops (2402HP) yesterday and just catched one buying all in a row and resold it for 14,5k. Should say it all. It isn't the economy that is broken, it's the poor attitude of some griefers that is screwing the economy.
Wipe or no wipe, that wouldn't change a thing unless you'll be able to wipe that poor attitude.


I can't affored one either, oh wait..

[mugane]

Agreed well said

[Rincon]

You guys need someone with some experience in running online communities to get involved. Since you've rocked the boat with that little wipe tease, than prematurely pulled out, are you going to do anything else to attempt to stabilize the economy and re-introduce item balance? I mean, with things the far outside of the box going on, at a minimum you are missing out on a lot of testing feedback because some parts of the game do not get touched because they are virtually gated by imbalance.

How about:

Delete all of the accounts that obviously duped credits, and have toons with 999,999,999 credits
Review any logs associated with those toons, and delete paths of massive credit transfer
Remove any and all looted weapons that are outside of the possibility of the standard loot table
Delete all weapons that are obviously mutli-sliced, due to their damage range being outside of the possibility of the loot table
Delete the accounts of people who openly state they are violating the TOS in spatial, tells, and IRC by talking about: Selling items/credits, Exploiting, Sharing accounts, Duping.


I can't believe that you actually went though with posting that poll, included the phrase "We won't pander to the QQ'ers, they ruined SWG in the first place" and yet you go and do exactly that. Seriously. I go back to my initial statement, you guys need to make an attempt to find someone who has experience running an online community. And you need to get them involved, before you implode your own corner of the internet by jerking people around like this.

[Baigs]

Had put up 10 Swoops (2402HP) yesterday and just catched one buying all in a row and resold it for 14,5k. Should say it all. It isn't the economy that is broken, it's the poor attitude of some griefers that is screwing the economy.
Wipe or no wipe, that wouldn't change a thing unless you'll be able to wipe that poor attitude.

Greed is prevalent.. saw a lot of that for the brief time I played WOW.. even had nasty mails and other comments made to me because I was hurting others profit margins....didn't matter that their prices were so high people couldn't afford without buying credits..

That'd be kind of funny, considering a group of people who did enough damage to **** an entire server to the point of this kind of outrage are still here.

I'm allowed to still hope.

[Shofu]

Had put up 10 Swoops (2402HP) yesterday and just catched one buying all in a row and resold it for 14,5k. Should say it all. It isn't the economy that is broken, it's the poor attitude of some griefers that is screwing the economy.
Wipe or no wipe, that wouldn't change a thing unless you'll be able to wipe that poor attitude.

Man ^^ i make 23xx swoops and sell 20 a day for 20k each ...
Raise price plx !! there is np getting 20k

[Z Ray]

Ekowraith makes a good point. If any tampering would have been done it would have been leaning towards the no vote so they can keep their stuff. Also there is no way anyone an say how many votes were tampered in either direction. Even if that's the case YES won by far more than NO did.

Once again the staff of this Emu are incompetent.

[Gray Mouser]

Had put up 10 Swoops (2402HP) yesterday and just catched one buying all in a row and resold it for 14,5k.

Here we see the mysterious and reclusive beast known only as "The Economy" in action. Have you never played a game with one before?

[tmar]

Well if you couldn't tell last night by the system messages that they did have a bias against the wipe, now you know.

[Arien]

You guys need someone with some experience in running online communities to get involved. Since you've rocked the boat with that little wipe tease, than prematurely pulled out, are you going to do anything else to attempt to stabilize the economy and re-introduce item balance? I mean, with things the far outside of the box going on, at a minimum you are missing out on a lot of testing feedback because some parts of the game do not get touched because they are virtually gated by imbalance.

How about:

Delete all of the accounts that obviously duped credits, and have toons with 999,999,999 credits
Review any logs associated with those toons, and delete paths of massive credit transfer
Remove any and all looted weapons that are outside of the possibility of the standard loot table
Delete all weapons that are obviously mutli-sliced, due to their damage range being outside of the possibility of the loot table
Delete the accounts of people who openly state they are violating the TOS in spatial, tells, and IRC by talking about: Selling items/credits, Exploiting, Sharing accounts, Duping.


I can't believe that you actually went though with posting that poll, included the phrase "We won't pander to the QQ'ers, they ruined SWG in the first place" and yet you go and do exactly that. Seriously. I go back to my initial statement, you guys need to make an attempt to find someone who has experience running an online community. And you need to get them involved, before you implode your own corner of the internet by jerking people around like this.

Amen

[Lamune]

I gotta' admit, this has all be more fun than grinding the last few boxes of pistol XP on my smuggler.

Damn I hate pistols.

[Gray Mouser]

Well if you couldn't tell last night by the system messages that they did have a bias against the wipe, now you know.

That alone should tell any discerning EMU player everything he needs to know about the use of a wipe.

[Vlada]

Anyone who thinks we don't pay attention to the community is sadly mistaken. We are very grateful for any constructive feedback that is given.


http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8639/pollaminutebeforeclose.png

[SomeoneImportant]

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8639/pollaminutebeforeclose.png

Best post all day?

I think so.

[Omegataco]

Sounds like the best decision. Can't please both sides anyway. Lets just go on as if this never happened.

[Lamune]

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4876/2074yu4sw2.gif
OMGOMG.

[Vlada]

http://tinypic.com/images/404.gif

That ship has sailed.

[Kainzo]

I wish there was a feature to ignore forum members. Is it possible to implement this?

[hav.rak]

Any suggestions? I just got back and was looking forward to seeing the staff deal with issues that influenced my decision to leave last time, then they totally lied and went back on their word.

I now see why I was laughed at for donating.


I'll just leave this here...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0StE4qllJho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOKLwN2czk

[Z Ray]

hey vlada they said they were grateful of the feedback. Not that they would heed it lol

[jksdustin]

So let me get this straight, you market yourselves by saying you'll listen to the community, yet you go with the minority?

This leads to 6 questions

1. What are you going to do to the dupers/account sellers/buyers? (buyers should get the same treatment as sellers for being dumb enough to buy an account for a game in testing stages)

2. Will you now stop worrying about semi-irrelivent things like the jedi system (an actual one can always be set up in OR, ours was fine the way it was, and don't get me wrong, nothing against jedi, i was making one and still voted for yes) and begin to focus on some actual fixes?

3. Are you planning on doing anything for the people who deleted their characters already to help you with the wipe? (I myself am not one, but I believe I saw some posts from people talking about already doing it because "someone" had told them about the wipe before hand, and considering the fact the majority was for wipe there could be a decent number.)

4. If inflation is apparently so bad that you had to wipe and now its going to remain the same for a while, how do you expect to deal with it until OR? (First because now it will continue, second because now so many more people know its possible to dupe credits and items it will most likely happen alot more)

5. Are you guys gonna pull this again anytime before OR over the same stupid stuff, or will the next one come with an actual fix? (I know you probably can't answer this, but still what the hell man?)

6. How many people created accounts since the poll was started? Because its my opinion that anyone who was not playing prior to the wipe announcement should not have been able to vote.


This whole thing pisses me off.

[Chelle Psyops]

Hoooly Sheep ****... don't we all feel like ****balls AGAIN. Where I'm from we used to call this "Lack of Communication" .. I would only suggest you guys get yer **** together.

B.O.H.I.C.A - Bend Over Here It Comes Again

[Vlada]

I wish there was a feature to ignore forum members. Is it possible to implement this?

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7960/capturenp.jpg

You are welcome. :)

[Ekowraith]

Sounds like the best decision. Can't please both sides anyway. Lets just go on as if this never happened.

Wouldn't the best decision be the one that pleases the most people? Simply because we cannot come to a consensus does not mean we should defer to the outraged minority.

[azkornboi]

Woot

[Duchess]

This isn't a Democracy, it's a Republic! Unless you're in the Empire, then I guess it's a Monarchy. :P Cheer up guys!

[Z Ray]

The worst part is the jerking around like the community has a choice. Instead they weren't going to do it all along apparently. ****ing jackasses.

[Rincon]

Actually Kyle said it should be more than 66%, but since that thread went bye, bye...

Why was Kyle such an active part of the "vote NO" voice anyway? I personally saw several system messages from him, obviously phrased in a way that supported the no vote, and now the roumour of the week being passed around is that he was involved in creating new account to vote no with?

Along with my opinion of getting someone with online community management experience involved, I would also HIGHLY recommend a firm separation of church and state when it comes to people involved in administrating/developing the game, and the player-base. Far bigger games than SWGemu have been destroyed because of bias and involvement from the administrative game. You guys having bias towards players, guilds, opinions, ect will do nothing but alienate the other side and encourage them to move on to something else.

[Freedon]

By Yhor:
"The staff are obviously out of touch with the community. They wonder why people turn on them, while the staff only does this all for the community, for free...
...it's because of issues like this."

Not entirely for free. There are (as someone pointed out) a good amount of funds that gets donated to the devs for their work as well as server stability. That aside, the people are "turning" on them as you put it because the devs said "We'll listen to the community majority", and then said "Nevermind" because a bunch of "new accounts" sprung up and started changing the votes to be in the favors of no.

By Budias:
"Still we know the devs are watching and moderating posts so why don't they have the guts to answer why they decided to go against the popular vote?"

I would like to see their reply as to why they chose to lock the polls and go against the votes myself. It was obvious the answer should have been "Wipe the server". However instead they chose to lock the thread, and not wipe, and then not reply to anything. I would like to see this thread locked, and them give us an answer, and then us NOT flame them (no matter what their answer is). But going against the community was a bad move imho.

By Duchess:
"Regardless of the outcome, we need to focus on the real problem, other than our inability to have a civil discussion without attacking each other. Pretty sad. These dupes won't go away with a wipe and I hope that more measures will be implemented to punish dupers. Unless they can come up with some super code that blows dupers up as soon as they dupe, we are going to have to rely on people reporting dupers and hoping they get punished."

I have to agree 1,000% here. If a duper is found, they need to be reported, and then imho, they need to be perma-banned if they're just duping to dupe and not help the community.

You find out how to dupe, you report how you did it, destroy the dupes, move on. Selling duped stuff ruins lots of things, and duping is an OBVIOUS BUG. Everyone knows it, but no one is for some reason reporting how it's done.

==============================================

Wrapping up, for the first time in years I'm actually shocked by how immature a LOT of the community has been for this. This wasn't a life or death changing event. It was an -option- for a reset which would help them with MINOR FIXES. Yes, it was a minor fix that was being addressed, but give me the minor fix! Give 66% (which is what we had community-wise) of the community the fix they wanted.

[Z Ray]

Personally I don't care if Kyle convinced NO votes. The YES votes won obviously.

[Lamune]

3. Are you planning on doing anything for the people who deleted their characters already to help you with the wipe? (I myself am not one, but I believe I saw some posts from people talking about already doing it because "someone" had told them about the wipe before hand, and considering the fact the majority was for wipe there could be a decent number.)


LOL! Like the crushing weight of an extra line in the database was lifted by their deleting their character early...

They are ****tards who don't deserve help or sympathy, or more likely liars who are hoping to repeat an old exploit from just about every MMO made where the GMs would do restorations- by getting the mods to restore an old database image of items they don't own... just borrowed from a friend long enough to show up in the records. Or they're just ****tards. But I repeat myself.

This same stunt was pulled claiming "mah account was hax'd and someone stole all my monies" a number of times, too...

[kookaburra]

I don't own duped items/credits either and can't effort some things I'd like to get, good armor, better weapon, Mineral Mining Installations, medium Tatooine house... Do you hear me moan about?

With all half done the economy would just move up again to the screwed state we already have. Much sooner because some credit consuming items would have left out.
BTW, I did play on the NGE lately, they have a fully set up economy with all the things we don't have by now which take the credits out of the system. If you think the prices here on the TC are insane, visit FarStar and see what some poeople charge for a noob CDEF Pistol.

Had put up 10 Swoops (2402HP) yesterday and just catched one buying all in a row and resold it for 14,5k. Should say it all. It isn't the economy that is broken, it's the poor attitude of some griefers that is screwing the economy.
Wipe or no wipe, that wouldn't change a thing unless you'll be able to wipe that poor attitude.

Someone paid you exactly what you were asking for your swoops and that is somehow griefing?

I think I missed something.

[mindslicer]

lol majority loses!

[Z Ray]

First rule of SwgEmu: why piss off a few people when you can piss off twice as many?

[Arien]

First rule of SwgEmu: why piss off a few people when you can piss off twice as many?

Yay for over achievers!!

[jaguilera]

Wipe it. its a test center. Next time dont ask just do it. I'll help out any way i can. I love this game. Oh and dont add jedi. Or make it super hard to get.;)

[Vlock]

not happy about it. so much QQ about the wipe. I cant wait until it legitimately comes and all those duped items and credits come to a close.

Well, not that it matters, I wont be playing until the TC is wiped. Ill of course keep an eye on the progress here though.

[Vlada]

Why was Kyle such an active part of the "vote NO" voice anyway? I personally saw several system messages from him, obviously phrased in a way that supported the no vote, and now the roumour of the week being passed around is that he was involved in creating new account to vote no with?


Nooooo, my post had nothing to do with Kyle, i responded to someone spreading misinformation. Someone claimed that it was 66.66% needed for the wipe to go through, and since i couldn't quote Kyle (thread was deleted) i just posted that.

This has nothing to do with anyone personal. This is all a abut the SWGEmu team as whole, about their professionalism or lack of it.

[tonkatuff]

So let me get this straight, you market yourselves by saying you'll listen to the community, yet you go with the minority?

This leads to 6 questions

1. What are you going to do to the dupers/account sellers/buyers? (buyers should get the same treatment as sellers for being dumb enough to buy an account for a game in testing stages)

From what I heard, they have plans in place to lower the duped credits.

2. Will you now stop worrying about semi-irrelivent things like the jedi system (an actual one can always be set up in OR, ours was fine the way it was, and don't get me wrong, nothing against jedi, i was making one and still voted for yes) and begin to focus on some actual fixes?

While its cool to have a jedi (i mean come on, everyone and there mother has one), it hurts the game, just like it did in the original. The system being proposed for SC will fix this. So I agree , they shouldnt waste time worrying about it.

3. Are you planning on doing anything for the people who deleted their characters already to help you with the wipe? (I myself am not one, but I believe I saw some posts from people talking about already doing it because "someone" had told them about the wipe before hand, and considering the fact the majority was for wipe there could be a decent number.)

There was NEVER an official word saying there was or wasnt a wipe. If you deleted your character or someone else did, they are dumb asses. Its not the dev's fault.

4. If inflation is apparently so bad that you had to wipe and now its going to remain the same for a while, how do you expect to deal with it until OR? (First because now it will continue, second because now so many more people know its possible to dupe credits and items it will most likely happen alot more)

The inflation is only one part of this. The biggest part is all the overpowered **** people are picking up off of sentinels. Everyone Ive seen goes rifles and bugs the sentinels out and exploits to get the loot. These weapons have WRECKED any fun in the game. And I have a perspective from both sides. I have really crazy weapons and ive used them and had them used on me. Its ignorant, foolish, and simply not fun.

5. Are you guys gonna pull this again anytime before OR over the same stupid stuff, or will the next one come with an actual fix? (I know you probably can't answer this, but still what the hell man?)

I would be no. Dont be suprised though if there are some changes here and there. I know I wouldnt be. Maybe a credit wipe of a certain % few people or something like that.

6. How many people created accounts since the poll was started? Because its my opinion that anyone who was not playing prior to the wipe announcement should not have been able to vote.

Who really cares?


This whole thing pisses me off.

You don't have to stay here. No one is making you.


Look, the bottom line is simple. You do NOT pay for this game in a test state. You wont be required to pay at anytime ever. If you donate, thats YOUR choice and by no means does it give you the right to voice your opinion. I know a developer personally and he does this for free. It takes up all his time from work to sleep. These developers are doing this for me, and you, and everyone else that loved the original game. If they choose to wipe it to make it more fun for people or they chose not to, thats there choice. In no way do they have to do anything for you or me. You ****ers should be greatful that they are doing what they are doing at all.

[Whiskey37]

****! So there are no blue frogs to ****?

[Duchess]

This same stunt was pulled claiming "mah account was hax'd and someone stole all my monies" a number of times, too...
It's scary to see what lengths people will go to to get 'virtual' items. People who cling to things that not only don't really exist but are meant for entertainment purposes ONLY maybe should take a break from gaming and see the world in all of it's detailed glory :D.
As many have pointed out, greed is what screws up the economy, sadly, like IRL.
People who care more about how many credits they can cram their bank with instead of caring about friendships need to realize that that's exactly what ruined the real world. The thought that there are people who would try anything (even without cheating) to sell overpriced goods is biting themselves in the bum. Monopolies are a terrible thing and we should probably stay away from the Capitalistic model of 'do whatever you can to make more money than everyone else even if it means stepping on everyone else' won't fly in a game that relies heavily on socialization and friendship to even exist.
Wipe or no wipe, I would really hope that the Devs would try their best to control the ego maniacs on this server before pulling the plug. I just hope they don't decide to throw the server out the window.
Unfortunately it is illegal to 'pay' for an emulated server, so even if I were to pay 1000 dollars a month to keep this thing going I know I wouldn't have any legal say in what happens to the server.
That's just how it is I guess.

[trunck]

same ol' game, same ol' bull****

[BlazeHoliday]

wow, way to piss off the majority.

should of just said we are wiping and will give you guys frogs for the first two weeks

/endthread

SOE much?

[Massimiliano]

same ol' game, same ol' bull****

Best post of the thread, few words for a sad reality.

[Kraschman]

Look, the bottom line is simple. You do NOT pay for this game in a test state. You wont be required to pay at anytime ever. If you donate, thats YOUR choice and by no means does it give you the right to voice your opinion. I know a developer personally and he does this for free. It takes up all his time from work to sleep. These developers are doing this for me, and you, and everyone else that loved the original game. If they choose to wipe it to make it more fun for people or they chose not to, thats there choice. In no way do they have to do anything for you or me. You ****ers should be greatful that they are doing what they are doing at all.

/applaud;

(And for the record, I voted yes with frogs)

Didn't get the wipe I voted for, but I'm not complaining. The devs are not doing this for money, they're doing it for love of the game we all want back. Before anyone starts lobbing insults at them, one MIGHT remember that without them we have no game to play save SOE's POS NGE.

[Vlock]

many people are claiming the staff lack of professionalism by ignoring the voice of the majority.

are we surprised how this turned out? Of course a small percentage doesnt want their crap wiped even though it is inevitable in the future anyway, yet again, SOMEONE catered to the crying of the minority rather than the voice of the majority. sound familiar?

[BlazeHoliday]

I also like how there is definately a wipe needed due to not only exploiters but other reasons and it's totally being over looked.

It's like a kid brings drugs to school and the school principal takes a vote to see if the kid should be expelled. Vast majority say yes a fraction say no and we have a debate and next thing ya know..... CU... NGE... QQers!

[tonkatuff]

/applaud;

(And for the record, I voted yes with frogs)

Didn't get the wipe I voted for, but I'm not complaining. The devs are not doing this for money, they're doing it for love of the game we all want back. Before anyone starts lobbing insults at them, one MIGHT remember that without them we have no game to play save SOE's POS NGE.

I voted yes for a wipe too. Im not all butt hurt :)

[Z Ray]

This isn't even really about to wipe or not wipe. It's the fact they jerked the community around. I don't play the TC anyways, mostly due to the minoirty that voted no.

[quadkidd02]

Im not as mad at the fact the wipe didn't happen, but more so that the navigation on the side of the forum doesn't work.

[rekoil]

thanks for the update

[Deus In Machina]

Look, the bottom line is simple. You do NOT pay for this game in a test state. You wont be required to pay at anytime ever. If you donate, thats YOUR choice and by no means does it give you the right to voice your opinion. I know a developer personally and he does this for free. It takes up all his time from work to sleep. These developers are doing this for me, and you, and everyone else that loved the original game. If they choose to wipe it to make it more fun for people or they chose not to, thats there choice. In no way do they have to do anything for you or me. You ****ers should be greatful that they are doing what they are doing at all.

This, exactly. People should learn respect and grow in maturity. Most of them act like if they were on the official SOE forums, with customers rights and all. Remember, you are ALLOWED to play there on Nova, for free. We shouldn't even have the right to express our own opinion on big decisions such as a Wipe, this isn't our concern, nor our decision. Let the devs plan the development and server management the way they want to, it's their toy, not ours. Unhappy? whine whine where are my shinies booooh? Move along.. seriously.

[Letesh]

QQ more people. The devs have their reasons for not wiping. Accept it and get back to playing or leave...

[Ekowraith]

The issue isn't gratitude here. This decision was senseless, aggressively unfair, damaging to the integrity of the community, and rewarding of bad behavior.

To the "don't complain, it's free" crowd: would you complain if a developer banned you because he disagreed with you politically? Your same principles would apply: you are not paying for SWGEmu, and you do not have a right to it. But at the end of the day, unfair treatment is unfair treatment. People seem to be content to overlook this when it favors them.

[Budias]

Think about that though. I uderstand that it's free but what kind of moron puts a poll gets people thinking there is going to be a wipe and then say oh nm? Alot of us understand it's free...but don't ask us for our vote and then piss on us.

[Kainzo]

Thanks Vlada, that ignore feature is a godsend. So many ugly avatars I never have to see again.

[log.iC]

I come with gifts! It's like eChristmas around here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0StE4qllJho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOKLwN2czk

[Vlock]

The issue isn't gratitude here. This decision was senseless, aggressively unfair, damaging to the integrity of the community, and rewarding of bad behavior.

To the "don't complain, it's free" crowd: would you complain if a developer banned you because he disagreed with you politically? Your same principles would apply: you are not paying for SWGEmu, and you do not have a right to it. But at the end of the day, unfair treatment is unfair treatment. People seem to be content to overlook this when it favors them.

I whole heartedly must agree with eko's statement.

[Duchess]

The only reason this thread is still going is because people like to post stuff in forums like this. Hey, I won't deny that this isn't entertaining to read all of these posts-- 10 years ago I used to argue in forum threads like this to the point of getting banned, even if I was right. I've learned that it helps nobody to worry too much about someone else's opinion to the point that you become red-faced and sweaty. People will probably continue to post poll results and analyze them and nobody is arguing about the poll results. At least some people try to approach this with humor and not ruin their day because of a game.

[Duchess]

The issue isn't gratitude here. This decision was senseless, aggressively unfair, damaging to the integrity of the community, and rewarding of bad behavior.

To the "don't complain, it's free" crowd: would you complain if a developer banned you because he disagreed with you politically? Your same principles would apply: you are not paying for SWGEmu, and you do not have a right to it. But at the end of the day, unfair treatment is unfair treatment. People seem to be content to overlook this when it favors them.

I've been banned from Darkfall just because I'm on the same router as my boyfriend and he got himself banned from the forum. I told them and they didn't believe me so I just left. That's it. I didn't mind.

[BloodForbes]

attachment is not the jedi way

[Kraschman]

The issue isn't gratitude here. This decision was senseless, aggressively unfair, damaging to the integrity of the community, and rewarding of bad behavior.

To the "don't complain, it's free" crowd: would you complain if a developer banned you because he disagreed with you politically? Your same principles would apply: you are not paying for SWGEmu, and you do not have a right to it. But at the end of the day, unfair treatment is unfair treatment. People seem to be content to overlook this when it favors them.

What precisely is unfair about this treatment?


The fact we get to play in their sandbox?

The fact they even solicited our opinion despite not needing to?

The fact they never promised they would wipe the server?

The fact they decided not to wipe based on several issues including possible vote fixing?

Personally, I'm not seeing the unfair part. And also for the record, none of my characters have any gear that is remotely uber, or more than 5k credits. So I'm no duper.

[Z Ray]

duchess that's because darkfall is terrible

[Kreen]

I think the moderators are going to find that the drama caused by the 200 people who cried about the server being wiped is gonna be insignificant to the 1000 who are enraged it isn't.

[Duchess]

duchess that's because darkfall is terrible

So is Coldplay, but I don't tell that to the person who listens to it :). <3 Peace.

[Deus In Machina]

Think about that though. I uderstand that it's free but what kind of moron puts a poll gets people thinking there is going to be a wipe and then say oh nm? Alot of us understand it's free...but don't ask us for our vote and then piss on us.

The original post is pretty much clear about that point. They started a poll about an eventual wipe, and they did get answers and questions they didn't expect. The result is "forget it, was a mistake, thank you for the feedback". I don't see what's wrong with that.

On a side note, i did vote for a Wipe, though i'm playing around with a Faint character. As I said, I don't care if there is a wipe or not, as long as I know it's going to happen, or not. The server is being wiped? fine, gimme a shout when it's done so i can start over a new char and have a fun fresh beginning. No wipe? Fine, ill just keep playing my actual chars. Whatever it has been decided, i do respect the decision.

[BloodForbes]

the angry few speak 10 times louder than the many who are content.

[Ekowraith]

That the staff closed the poll and erred on the side of the minority. If it were at all in doubt, why not make the choice that most people favored?

That the justifications for closing the poll rewarded the exact bad behavior it claimed to punish. ("No" voters were more likely to have dupe votes because dupers had something to gain by voting no.)

That staff very likely changed the poll by adding and removing votes to lessen the severity of their minority-pandering decision.

[kookaburra]

I come with gifts! It's like eChristmas around here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0StE4qllJho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOKLwN2czk


Your post has actually given me A New Hope for the future.

[BlazeHoliday]

We need an explanation or an apology or something. I know I'm going to get the WE DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Then why ask our opinion? Then why ask for our vote? They why cater to the minority? They why have a forum? Why, why, why?

BTW I'm pissed to all hell that we were underminded more then anything. But I'll continue to support SWGemu. But pissed as hell at the SOE move just pulled. To no end. Might not log in to TC for a good while off principle alone.

[loftkilla]

so I deleted all my characters for nothing?

[Labyrinth]

Im pissed because they promised a wipe if the majority got the vote, the vast majority got it, and instead of keeping the promise, they tell us "Nevermind"...
Technically, the thing they backpedaled on was saying that the poll had too much room for bias, proxies, etc. The actual turn out of votes isn't really relevant to what they did because they didn't wait a whole two weeks like they said they were going to (now who was clamoring for them to just "wrap it up now"? Wasn't that the let's wipe "majority"? Hmm..). I can't help but find it amusing that so many people pissed about what happened are pissed not because of the reneging itself, but because they didn't get their wipe.

Really, as much as people say that the staff went with the "whining minority," keep in mind that whining from a minority was what brought about the poll and the possible user-based decision in the first place. Add to that the fact that the poll results have no proof of being accurate of user opinion in the first place; I remember at least a couple cases easily where someone said that they chose "yes" and then realized afterward that they didn't actually want a wipe.

It all reminds me of the speedhacking situation a while back and how people went bat**** insane because principles such as "cheating" were brought into the argument. "Dupers" seems to be the flavor of the month for riling the memberbase up.

[BlazeHoliday]

I come with gifts! It's like eChristmas around here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0StE4qllJho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOKLwN2czk


thx for this!

[kookaburra]

We need an explanation or an apology or something. I know I'm going to get the WE DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Then why ask our opinion? Then why ask for our vote? They why cater to the minority? They why have a forum? Why, why, why?


Because they had NO CLUE that the community would be so in favor of a wipe.
I'd be very curious to know the ACTUAL vote count (without the padding). I'd guess its about 3:1 in favor.

If instead of all this poll nonsense, they had just made an announcement that they were aware of the in-game problems but that there would be no server wipes in the immediate future, this who debacle would be a non issue.

[Massimiliano]

so I deleted all my characters for nothing?

No one asked or told you to do that m8.

[Ashur]

so I deleted all my characters for nothing?

holy hell dude, plz tell me thats a joke.

and it did remind me of the guy that deleted all his skills while waiting for the CU because he thought that was what needed to be done to respec

[Ekowraith]

Potential Staff courses of action:


Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly divisive and harmful to the community. It shouldn't be allowed to exist. Let's cut it short to end the fighting, and respect the will of the majority."

Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly controversial. This is an issue our community is passionate about. Let's allow it to run its course, and then go with the majority's decision."

Sensible! ✔ "Let's not create a poll whose outcomes we can't reasonably respect."

Ridiculous! ✘ "Let's cut the poll short prematurely, arbitrarily siding with the minority, tampering with the poll's results and succumbing to a tearful minority!"

[loftkilla]

No one asked or told you to do that m8.

but the vote was like 90% yes

[tonsters525]

From another point of view, whining majority lost. So what?
I'm happy with the outcome that the Devs let the dead horse be the dead horse and continue with OR.
Because all effort putting in the work for the wipe will now return to where it should be first place. And in the end we just ALL win. Plain and simple.

They said it would take to afternoons, that means no time would really be wasted.

[Massimiliano]

but the vote was like 90% yes

ok but there was no reason to delete chars until the wipe.

[Duchess]

We need an explanation or an apology or something. I know I'm going to get the WE DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Then why ask our opinion? Then why ask for our vote? They why cater to the minority? They why have a forum? Why, why, why?

BTW I'm pissed to all hell that we were underminded more then anything. But I'll continue to support SWGemu. But pissed as hell at the SOE move just pulled. To no end. Might not log in to TC for a good while off principle alone.

Well, it is odd that we're not getting much input from the staff at this point. I wouldn't bother getting angry about it but hopefully this was a learning experience that will help them deal with issues better. Even the person with the most honest and positive intentions can end up with the worst results and piss people off. That's why I never discuss my political or other personal views with people. I'd rather know them for who they are then by what they do or what they believe in.

[jborrow]

Just goes to show all the dev fanbois the type of people you put so much faith in. There are no such thing as infallible people, yet the sheeple continue their blindfolded game of follow-the-leader. Keep the donations up, the future is bright. GG.

ps:

b/o soun

[loftkilla]

They said it would take to afternoons, that means no time would really be wasted.

not only that, b ut wiping the DB could have led to stability improvements so things like my best aror peices and my 10k units of Wehy might not just up and leave the server...

[Massimiliano]

Fact is mankind never learn from the past (doesnt matter the contest)

[loftkilla]

ok but there was no reason to delete chars until the wipe.

ya, but jeez, cmon...A wipe...no matter what the vote...would be good and healthy for the DB stability...

they didnt need a vote to realize that.

but ya, it was like 90% yes....and everyone IG seems to want it.

[Mahonra]

Technically, the thing they backpedaled on was saying that the poll had too much room for bias, proxies, etc. The actual turn out of votes isn't really relevant to what they did because they didn't wait a whole two weeks like they said they were going to (now who was clamoring for them to just "wrap it up now"? Wasn't that the let's wipe "majority"? Hmm..). I can't help but find it amusing that so many people pissed about what happened are pissed not because of the reneging itself, but because they didn't get their wipe.

Really, as much as people say that the staff went with the "whining minority," keep in mind that whining from a minority was what brought about the poll and the possible user-based decision in the first place. Add to that the fact that the poll results have no proof of being accurate of user opinion in the first place; I remember at least a couple cases easily where someone said that they chose "yes" and then realized afterward that they didn't actually want a wipe.

It all reminds me of the speedhacking situation a while back and how people went bat**** insane because principles such as "cheating" were brought into the argument. "Dupers" seems to be the flavor of the month for riling the memberbase up.

Have you ever taken a moment and read what you actually write? It's almost impossible to follow you.

[EVILJUDE]

the whiny litle *****es always get thier way. shame.

[Kraschman]

That the staff closed the poll and erred on the side of the minority. If it were at all in doubt, why not make the choice that most people favored?

Perhaps because they was doubt that the "most people favoured" figures were any more accurate? If the veracity of the vote is in question, I'd rather they continue with the status quo than go with what may be padded vote numbers.

That the justifications for closing the poll rewarded the exact bad behavior it claimed to punish. ("No" voters were more likely to have dupe votes because dupers had something to gain by voting no.)

And yes voters would have incentive to dupe votes to make sure the wipe went through.

That staff very likely changed the poll by adding and removing votes to lessen the severity of their minority-pandering decision.

And you have evidence of this?

[SomeoneImportant]

If we all delete our characters that will be like a wipe, wouldn't it?

[Duchess]

Maybe it's the fact that some people still have a lot of doubts about whether or not the wipe would fix anything. Yes, we all know what they said it would fix, and what it may not, but I have no clue myself if they will be fixed. Since most of us don't know the first thing about running a server, maybe it should be just up to the Devs to decide. I mean, if I were to host anything I would have the power to do whatever I wanted including making a choice that may seem to be unpopular. I would have the right to do that, but I would also have to deal with the consequences. If I don't care that nobody plays on my server, then I can be as unfair as I want. I really don't think that's what is happening here, but we can't stop anyone from doing what they want with their server. What we can do is express our concerns and hope that they listen.

[marauder144]

Fail poll is fail.

[Ekowraith]

Guys: Is this a CU anniversary joke? I'm beginning to think it might actually be.

[kookaburra]

so I deleted all my characters for nothing?

And I dropped all my l33t lewt into the Lifestone.

[Z Ray]

Best post so far.

Potential Staff courses of action:


Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly divisive and harmful to the community. It shouldn't be allowed to exist. Let's cut it short to end the fighting, and respect the will of the majority."

Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly controversial. This is an issue our community is passionate about. Let's allow it to run its course, and then go with the majority's decision."

Sensible! ✔ "Let's not create a poll whose outcomes we can't reasonably respect."

Ridiculous! ✘ "Let's cut the poll short prematurely, arbitrarily siding with the minority, tampering with the poll's results and succumbing to a tearful minority!"

[Rebelexterminator]

Well, it is odd that we're not getting much input from the staff at this point. I wouldn't bother getting angry about it but hopefully this was a learning experience that will help them deal with issues better. Even the person with the most honest and positive intentions can end up with the worst results and piss people off. That's why I never discuss my political or other personal views with people. I'd rather know them for who they are then by what they do or what they believe in.

Duchess, if thats you in the avatar, cut your hair and strangle yourself with it.

[Phlier]

As much as I would have liked to see a wipe, we gotta remember one thing: we aren't paying for this game. We aren't paying for TC. The devs (whether we think this latest move right or wrong) are letting us play on TC because *they* chose to do so.

We make a big enough stink, and they could just chose to *not* let us do so.

Like it or not, we are guests in their home, and should act like it. Let's not let this whole thing blow up to the point that they just close TC to public use.

[log.iC]

Potential Staff courses of action:


Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly divisive and harmful to the community. It shouldn't be allowed to exist. Let's cut it short to end the fighting, and respect the will of the majority."

Sensible! ✔ "This poll is clearly controversial. This is an issue our community is passionate about. Let's allow it to run its course, and then go with the majority's decision."

Sensible! ✔ "Let's not create a poll whose outcomes we can't reasonably respect."

Ridiculous! ✘ "Let's cut the poll short prematurely, arbitrarily siding with the minority, tampering with the poll's results and succumbing to a tearful minority!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0StE4qllJho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOKLwN2czk

[Duchess]

Duchess, if thats you in the avatar, cut your hair and strangle yourself with it.

Is there a reason for this attack? That's okay though. I still like you. :O)
I may be bi, but I don't need to look like a dyke rofl.

[Soulreaver]

i have to reply i tryed so hard not to say any thing but...

for thous of you gloating about no wipe its fine,and all for thos of you that are talking trash about no wipe need to pull your selves together. sometimes i think this sorta of thing gets the best of you all and you loose your dam minds.

we are still family and friends here if you want to act 2 years old this game is not rated for you please stop the negative talk is not worth any thing, and benefits none.

[Ekowraith]

[/list]

Perhaps because they was doubt that the "most people favoured" figures were any more accurate? If the veracity of the vote is in question, I'd rather they continue with the status quo than go with what may be padded vote numbers.[/list]

It is reasonable to assume that vote padding occurred on both sides. EVEN IF that 15% of the "yes" vote was padded and 0% of the "no" vote was padded, there was STILL a majority of people in favor of wiping the server! More likely is that the padding occurred equally on both sides, and "yes" votes still DOUBLED "no" votes.

And yes voters would have incentive to dupe votes to make sure the wipe went through.

Which side, do you think, would have a greater portion of its votes derived from duping? The side from which in-game dupers would prosper personally, or the side where they wouldn't? Both "yes" and "no" surely had an equal share of non-dupers who padded the vote. But the "no" side won the votes of people who have an in-game history of duping.

And you have evidence of this?

Yes. Look at the before and after poll-closing screenshots from page 14.

Abstract:

For those "no" voters who argue that the poll is inaccurate: do you think the margin of error is 15% towards the yes side? Even though in-game dupers would clearly vote "no"?

[Duchess]

i have to reply i tryed so hard not to say any thing but...

for thous of you gloating about no wipe its fine,and all for thos of you that are talking trash about no wipe need to pull your selves together. sometimes i think this sorta of thing gets the best of you all and you loose your dam minds.

we are still family and friends here if you want to act 2 years old this game is not rated for you please stop the negative talk is not worth any thing, and benefits none.

<3 I think tolerance is key here. The Devs may have started it, but if we keep this up we'll end up being the ones to bring SWGemu down. :( I really don't want to see that. I trust that we can all be mature and get back to socializing. :)

[t-nutz]

i KNEW the 66.6 was going to come into play.
want to see something interesting?

20 seconds before close


database error, 20 sec later back up pool closed


just enough votes, all thrown in 3rd option to get it under 66.6 (Which is a statistical imposiblitly btw)

The first SS, shows 1994 people voted, this was before the closing of the poll. The second SS shows that 2013 people voted right before it was closed. If you notice the first option goes from 162 in the first SS, and down to 161 in the second SS. How does one drop a count from the poll?

I am not understanding that.

P.S.- Sorry, I had to remove the http links as I don't have 5 posts and cannot post them......

[Kraschman]

i have to reply i tryed so hard not to say any thing but...

for thous of you gloating about no wipe its fine,and all for thos of you that are talking trash about no wipe need to pull your selves together. sometimes i think this sorta of thing gets the best of you all and you loose your dam minds.

we are still family and friends here if you want to act 2 years old this game is not rated for you please stop the negative talk is not worth any thing, and benefits none.

As much as I agree with you, the community is made of ex-SOE players. This kind of thing has been happening on their boards since launch, through the CU, through the NGE, and still occurs.

Why would here be any different?

[Arnold47525]

Here we see the mysterious and reclusive beast known only as "The Economy" in action. Have you never played a game with one before?

Yes, I have. Do you?

[Soulreaver]

its different becasue this is NOT SOE !

I guess i don't get it am i wrong that the devs are allowing us to play on this server for FREE ? and to allow us to hang out test when we feel like it or play when we feel like it while they work there ass off for NO MONEY AT ALLL ??? You all need to wake up they dont have to do this for us at all...

[Aonevm]

this place has gone crazy it seems, ohh well when bombs drop gotta expect collateral damage ...

[Arien]

its different becasue this is NOT SOE !

We should vote on that.....

[Machiavelli]

although i voted for a wipe, I still give SWGemu guys props, its got to be a tough decision. Keep up the good work guys.

[Pachrom]

Whining minority wins again.

Oh the flashbacks...

Agreed, this decision is bullsh. BULLSH I TELL YOU!

[Re'Tak]

I could have sworn I saw Kyle post something along the lines of "We will not feed the QQers because that's what killed the game the first time around"

I guess he and the Devs changed their minds - what a shame.

+1 for the whiners!

[kailos]

These devteam should take a lesson from CCP (EVE Online).

Nuture your community.
Listen to your community.
Respect your community.

That is what let an indie devloper like CCP, actually compete in the commercial MMO market and make a great sandbox game like EVE Online.

I'm seriously looking forward to playing SWGemu more (on TC and Live) but without the right attitude from the devteam, it's not going to get there.

[Ekowraith]

If the SWGEmu staff really wants to distinguish itself from SOE, it will reverse this decision, recognize its mistake, and restore the faith of its constituents.

[badboy09]

1st off all i have not read all of the post's ill get back to you on that, but WTF R U GUYS PLAYING @ , I how nasty is that stunt you guys just pulled off.

another time when 600 voices are louder than 2000.

[Spun]

Odwill made a mistake by asking for a vote in the first place, he realizes that now. But the main reason his effort failed was due to being undermined by Kyle. That is just sad. I hope you guys can get your team straightened out and move forward.

[Arnold47525]

Someone paid you exactly what you were asking for your swoops and that is somehow griefing?

I think I missed something.

I put them up that cheap for players who don't could afford some for the insane amounts charged already, not for the personal gain of just a plain ***.
(If someone knows how much it cost to sample the resources needed to craft one will understand).

That's what you missed maybe.

[Joshino]

If we all delete our characters that will be like a wipe, wouldn't it?

Gogo , delete iarzop and folmar.

[Spun]

I put them up that cheap for players who don't could afford some for the insane amounts charged already, not for the personal gain of just a plain ***.
(If someone knows how much it cost to sample the resources needed to craft one will understand).

That's what you missed maybe.

If you put something up for sale on the bazaar you don't get to chose who buys it.

[Soulreaver]

I guess i made a mistake too. i thought this community was different. i am learning i was way wrong.

[mork]

If it walks like SOE, and it talks like SOE, its SOE.......thanks for reminding us all that you're really SOE

just go QQ if your going to be like that, no matter what they do they are better than SOE and have done nothing wrong, they were trying to help the community by giving us a voice. something wich many couldn't handle.

[SomeoneImportant]

<kyle> Your votes don't matter
<kyle> Only votes from the electoral college matters

[Mahonra]

Ehhh. It's not the end of the world. I didn't care either way on the wipe. I just wanted BLUE TOADS if there was one.

[shilo]

I really think we just got a glimpse of the future of SWGemu. Unless something is done RIGHT now, than this emulator is doomed. If a decision to wipe can cause the dev team to flip flop back and forth like this, what is going to happen when real decisions have to be made?

If this team lacks the back bone not to be swayed by a vocal minority, than how is it going to survive this thing out to the end?

Is that not what killed SWG?

[CrackPipe2011]

If you were never going to wipe it why make 2 ****ing polls?

[Tyrinius]

so we had three polls, all for the wipe, and now this.?!?
wtb duping guide
sorry, i'm enraged
delete this post, i better calm down a bit

[Otaris]

Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

[Joshino]

Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

lol?

[badboy09]

**** it, its all i can think off.

[Ekowraith]

Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

Nope! A plurality of people voted in favor of blue frogs, so clearly the most logical thing would be to entirely ignore that choice. :rolleyes:

[tonsters525]

I wonder if the devs remember why they are doing this project? Did they forget that 90%of the people playing got screwed with by SOE the same way the just screwed with us? I understand it's free but don't put we fix what someone broke and then follow in their footsteps.

I just see it as all these people are donating their own money to keep the server up and they should have it the way the majority wanted it to be.

[Mahonra]

Can we still get the 2 week of Blue Frogs?

LOL!! that would be great!!

Ok, well, no wipe is gonna happen. So how about we start a petition to implement GUILD WAR features!?!? OMG THAT WOULD ROCK!!!

[CrackPipe2011]

I feel like were dealing with SOE here.

"Well fix this for you guys!!"
*some time later*
"Never mind we were just ****ing with you!"

[Kraschman]

It is reasonable to assume that vote padding occurred on both sides. EVEN IF that 15% of the "yes" vote was padded and 0% of the "no" vote was padded, there was STILL a majority of people in favor of wiping the server! More likely is that the padding occurred equally on both sides, and "yes" votes still DOUBLED "no" votes.
Since you have no evidence of the breakup of possible dupe votes, this is merely speculation on your part. The vote could have gone in any direction.


Which side, do you think, would have a greater portion of its votes derived from duping? The side from which in-game dupers would prosper personally, or the side where they wouldn't? Both "yes" and "no" surely had an equal share of non-dupers who padded the vote. But the "no" side won the votes of people who have an in-game history of duping.
Your talking about probabilities. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what actually occured. It's highly improbable to get struck by lightning, yet people do despite the odds.


Yes. Look at the before and after poll-closing screenshots from page 14.And said screenshots prove what exactly? There are votes removed from both yes and no sides as I see them, apparently obvious dupe votes removed as same. That in no way obviates the possibility that many others that were counted were duped as well.

Let's put it this way. Say we're voting for Mayor of Springfield, and Sideshow Bob is leading, and there's a strong chance of vote fraud. Do you put Bob in despite the chance he got in crookedly? Or throw the whole vote out and perhaps start from scratch when you can get a relatively clean vote?

Fact is, the vote was borked, and they choose to continue on with the status quo for the moment rather than go with fudged numbers, regardless of the outcome. I see no problem here.

[elpenguino1]

I wasn't fully for the wipe, but I do agree with what most are saying here. Over 66% of the community wanted a wipe, and as your initial statement said if that number or more desired it, then it would happen. In layman's terms, that is called a lie. The moment the developers start lying to their community and not caring what their ideas on the matter are is the moment the community loses respect for the developers. It is going to spiral farther into the hole that has been dug and player base is going to be lost on a large scale. If you don't want to turn into a SOE clone, reconsidering would be wise, but it looks like your minds are made up already.

[Duchess]

LOL!! that would be great!!

Ok, well, no wipe is gonna happen. So how about we start a petition to implement GUILD WAR features!?!? OMG THAT WOULD ROCK!!!

OOOH! That would probably be my favorite feature.

[kookaburra]

I really think we just got a glimpse of the future of SWGemu. Unless something is done RIGHT now, than this emulator is doomed. If a decision to wipe can cause the dev team to flip flop back and forth like this, what is going to happen when real decisions have to be made?

If this team lacks the back bone not to be swayed by a vocal minority, than how is it going to survive this thing out to the end?

Is that not what killed SWG?

My thoughts exactly.
The way this entire thing was mishandled from start to finish, has completely demolished my already waning confidence in the SWGEmu team.

[Adler1984]

I will say that it makes me chuckle a little seeing this page, and seeing the number of people who originally were saying things like "Wipe it, the devs obviously want to" and etc... are complaining now and the number of people talking about quitting now that they have said no wipe are saddening. Last time I looked the vote poll wasn't "Yes, and give me blue frogs or I QUIT!".

I'm not a forum mod, none of us are but the mods. If they put up the vote with the intention of it being a fair vote and creating a good discussion, then saw that it was in any way becoming one that was questionable (BOTH the YES and NO sides made accusations of tampering, proxy clicking, etc..), and saw the level of division it was creating in the community, I can't blame them for taking it down.

What they did was in NO way the same as what SOE did or does. SOE didn't run a serious poll that was aimed at letting the players dictate what would happen. SOE didn't consult with players before implementing changes, or tossing out the CU or NGE. All they did was say "this is what's gonna happen, kkthnxbye".

Players should be grateful the developers even considered putting up a poll to let players decide, and should also realize that a forum based poll is a great way to express thoughts and opinions, but not something that should be used to determine the course of the game.

The devs tried it, and it turned into a complete mess. I for one am grateful they tried, but believe the COMMUNITY could've AS A WHOLE handled it a lot better than they did. A lot of people made assumptions of a wipe, and others that there'd be no wipe, and as a result many players did things IN GAME that were geared toward a wipe. This phenomenon is exactly why the developers did the RIGHT thing is saying "ok this is a cluster-bleep, let's end it".

I will remind all of those who screamed "It's a TC, it should be wiped" and "If the Devs want to wipe, then wipe!" that yes, it IS a TC, it IS the Devs call, and if they look at what's happening when they experiment with letting the COMMUNITY become more involved in the decision making process and that spirals out of control... yeah I can't blame them for calling it.

I take this as a learning experience for everyone...including the developers...and now they know that it's a completely BAD idea to try to let "the Community" try to decide the course of the server. So, to that end, I say let's get back to playing, maybe the devs can patch in some of the dupe fixes, and let's move one like they hadn't brought the poll in the first place.

After all, HAD they NEVER put the polls up, we'd ALL be doing the exact same thing today as we were before the polls were up...Grinding away, making creds, talking, chatting, beating each other up in duels, all the while waiting for the OR.

[JonnyMe]

Fine the majority of the community is being ignore and our votes are meaning less.

But lets get it down to what we want, the big reason the wipe was proposed was for the destroy economy we have right now. Ok no wipe fine, lets fix the economy, ban the dupers and take the money and duped items out of the economy, I guess that will be easier then just wiping the server right?

[kookaburra]

After all, HAD they NEVER put the polls up, we'd ALL be doing the exact same thing today as we were before the polls were up...Grinding away, making creds, talking, chatting, beating each other up in duels, all the while waiting for the OR.

Exactly.

They really shot themselves in the foot with their feigned interest in what the community wanted.

[sara23229]

I voted for the wipe but I am glad you didn't do it. I can't belive people are complaining about a free game!

[Vou23]

Jolly good!

[fixit6]

See you all in 10 months when OR might come. lol. ;)

edit. I was thinking of playing again, but then I realized to get a crummy VK would cost well over 20 mill for something that would last a week at most and would need to buy credits from ebay: then I laughed. Enjoy this joke of a hacked out economy, folks.

[Arien]

oooh irony.

Top of this thread in the ads by google it reads....

Economic Crisis, Who's to blame? Vote now!!

lol

[Adler1984]

Since you have no evidence of the breakup of possible dupe votes, this is merely speculation on your part. The vote could have gone in any direction.Your talking about probabilities. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what actually occured. It's highly improbable to get struck by lightning, yet people do despite the odds.And said screenshots prove what exactly? There are votes removed from both yes and no sides as I see them, apparently obvious dupe votes removed as same. That in no way obviates the possibility that many others that were counted were duped as well.

Let's put it this way. Say we're voting for Mayor of Springfield, and Sideshow Bob is leading, and there's a strong chance of vote fraud. Do you put Bob in despite the chance he got in crookedly? Or throw the whole vote out and perhaps start from scratch when you can get a relatively clean vote?

Fact is, the vote was borked, and they choose to continue on with the status quo for the moment rather than go with fudged numbers, regardless of the outcome. I see no problem here.

/agree

[Mahonra]

MISS NOVA posted in here!! We have a celebrity in out midst!

Anyway, lets all just move on. Go to this thread and /sign the petition!

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54719

[badboy09]

dont worry guys.

THERE IS ANOTHER

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54723

[Otaris]

Please lisen to the community. Its the players who really are involved with the entire development as a whole. There is a SERIOUS problem if players are duping items and credits. It can destroy a otherwise exciting game. We came here because of the wrong SOE showed its swg player base. We were very frustrated in almost every forum trying to get our voices heard. Right now you guys obviously put your foot in your mouth suggesting this and your right by saying a suprising result came out. Players WANT a wipe and a clean slate. Duping has ruined the ecomony, the issue needs to be fixed top priority and the server cleaned because of what happen.

[safak]

Since you have no evidence of the breakup of possible dupe votes, this is merely speculation on your part. The vote could have gone in any direction.Your talking about probabilities. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what actually occured. It's highly improbable to get struck by lightning, yet people do despite the odds.And said screenshots prove what exactly? There are votes removed from both yes and no sides as I see them, apparently obvious dupe votes removed as same. That in no way obviates the possibility that many others that were counted were duped as well.



well 2 points to make here.

1. the only way it has been verified, the 'ghost votes', is on the NO side. so people will tend to think they were the culprits the entire time, since they were already found guilty of it.

2. yes, a vote or 2 was removed from both sides. noone is quite sure why/how that happened. but that isn't the point of the screenshots, the point was that right as the poll was closed, many votes in a row went to the same 15% answer... barely pushing it under that 2/3rd mark.
which is, without someone with access to it screwing with it, impossible.
there is less than a 1 in 100 billion chance of 20 votes in a row legitimately going toward a 15% answer in a poll of this sample size.

[Ekowraith]

Kraschman sez: Let's throw out the vote over the 1 in 100 billion percent chance that the majority wasn't in favor of this wipe.

Kraschman, do you really believe the margin of error was FIFTEEN PERCENT? And limited EXCLUSIVELY to the yes side? This is an absurd contention and doesn't even warrant refutation.

[Kraschman]

well 2 points to make here.

1. the only way it has been verified, the 'ghost votes', is on the NO side. so people will tend to think they were the culprits the entire time, since they were already found guilty of it.

2. yes, a vote or 2 was removed from both sides. noone is quite sure why/how that happened. but that isn't the point of the screenshots, the point was that right as the poll was closed, many votes in a row went to the same 15% answer... barely pushing it under that 2/3rd mark.
which is, without someone with access to it screwing with it, impossible.
there is less than a 1 in 100 billion percent chance of 20 votes in a row legitimately going toward a 15% answer in a poll of this sample size.

And again, no evidence that the preceding votes were all legit. Therefore ALL the votes are suspect. So scrap the vote and go with the status quo until you can get a clean vote. Which they've done.

[kookaburra]

there is less than a 1 in 100 billion chance of 20 votes in a row legitimately going toward a 15% answer in a poll of this sample size.

I was thinking to myself "why pull numbers out of your butt like that?".

Then I opened the calculator.....

[Ekowraith]

And again, no evidence that the preceding votes were all legit. Therefore ALL the votes are suspect. So scrap the vote and go with the status quo until you can get a clean vote. Which they've done.

What possible set of circumstances could lead to 16% of yes votes being fraudulent, and 0% of no votes being fraudulent? Again, this is the only way it could be that the poll wouldn't show that a majority of people were not in favor of the wipe.

[kookaburra]

What possible set of circumstances could lead to 16% of yes votes being fraudulent, and 0% of no votes being fraudulent? Again, this is the only way it could be that the poll wouldn't show that a majority of people were in favor of the wipe.


I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

The problem is that votes were actually TAKEN AWAY from one category and added to another.
The only person(s) with the ability to make a negative vote would be a board moderator.

[reidski182]

Hoooly Sheep ****... don't we all feel like ****balls AGAIN. Where I'm from we used to call this "Lack of Communication" .. I would only suggest you guys get yer **** together.

B.O.H.I.C.A - Bend Over Here It Comes Again

you sir, are sheer genius. </thumbs>

[Ekowraith]

That's true, but we were talking about account duping. He argues that the poll is illegitimate due to the possibility that 16% of "yes" votes and 0% of "no" votes came from duped accounts. How realistic. :rolleyes:

[JennieRoe]

Damn, I spent all day thinking about what professions to get from the Blue Frogs. :/

[Ekowraith]

I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

Bingo. Illegitimate votes were made on both sides, but they certainly did not constitute 15% of the majority vote.

The poll was legitimate, but the staff opted to please a whining, 1/3rd minority. Their aloof response to the community's outrage only strengthens worries that the staff just doesn't give a damn about its constituents.

[Vlada]

Damn, I spent all day thinking about what professions to get from the Blue Frogs. :/

You and me both, i even made a list.

[Adio Spiegel]

/waves bye to 1000 or so players

Good riddance to rubbish and filth.

[TrentTyler]

Im at a loss over this. We get polled twice in 3days, and even though the majority was in favor of a wipe, they decided against it? Correct me if im wrong but wasn't the wipe their idea?

If i understand this post correctly, a few people email or send in game tells voicing concerns so the majority vote is now void?

What was the purpose of the poll then?

I would have thought a wipe could only advance the progress of OR, and isnt that the Bottom Line?

[stil]

Rather disappointing when you look at this. A wipe would have been nice in many respects and seemed (was, dare I say?) supported by a majority of the community...

Possible re-re-decision on the part of devs?

[Ekowraith]

Trent, I share in your confusion. Not only was the decision unjust, it seems almost random and senseless. Why did this process occur if only to be dashed away? The staff clearly lacks internal coherence.

[auron508]

A rule you should all learn or really, should have already known; Nothing in life is certain except death and taxes...Now I see both sides. I support a wipe but I also don't run the servers. You're not paying to play this. No one is forcing you to an obligation to play. This is purely for enjoyment and nothing else. The SWGemu guys have spoken and you should respect that. If not, they left the code open, go make your own server and make the rules you want. If not, don't complain. This is coming from someone who deleted their character to help with the wipe. Constant crying also helped towards SWG's demise as well.

[Budias]

Or at least have them come out of hiding and respond to everyone

[CrackPipe2011]

Stop being pussies and give us what we voted for EMU team.

[Agitated]

Cry babies always win in the end. So sad, makes me sad :(.

[-ace-]

Im at a loss over this. We get polled twice in 3days, and even though the majority was in favor of a wipe, they decided against it? Correct me if im wrong but wasn't the wipe their idea?

If i understand this post correctly, a few people email or send in game tells voicing concerns so the majority vote is now void?

What was the purpose of the poll then?

I would have thought a wipe could only advance the progress of OR, and isnt that the Bottom Line?

I think i've quoted you 2-3 times saying the same thing, don't they teach english comprehension in the 3rd grade? They specifically said it wouldn't advance or effect the OR in ANY way whatsoever. Jesus.


To the rest of this thread, seriously guys? The no voters were voting against losing something, the yes voters whining now, what exactly are you crying about? That nothing has changed, we're all going to be doing the same thing we were doing 2 days ago, damn that must suck.

[reknos]

1) start open vote over small issue cried loudly
2) everyone votes for wipe
3) call off vote result over small issue cried loudly
4) ???
5) profit.

[emporter]

Can I dupe your stuff?

[reidski182]

I've collected 2 very good points of knowledge from reading comments. First, we ARE lucky to have swgemu, what if we didn't? Obviously we wouldn't be here arguing, but we're arguing cause swgemu is the bomb. think you can make a better pre-cu? Go ahead.

Secondly, yes, we are sort of being pushed around in a bi-polar manner, but i don't blame them. Everyday i try to please everyone, and everyday, at the end of everyday, someone is mad at me. Though i think swgemu has a little bit more than one person mad. But the point is i think we should all just chillax, let the developers figure things out for a day or two, (hopefully only a day or two) and see what they do. I personally think a wipe with frogs would be nice, and I'd consider quitting if they didn't have frogs, but the second i heard about "duping" i was thinking, "wipe this mofo".

So, to admin: I disagree with how you've delt with this, but thank you for making swgemu.
People: Time is what we need. Yes, Benny Benassi right there.

I have been studying the presidents lately, and i always give credits to ones that didn't make the economy any worse. Really, from what i can tell, the producers haven't done harm other than pissing us off.

Again to admin: I think we should get this over with. Wipe it and blue frog us! But, i respect whatever decision you make.

I hope this does something, cause I spent some time on it.

[cru jodo]

leave staff be. So they f*cked up, ppl f*ck up all the time. We shouldn't be blaming them.

We should be blaming the dupers that caused the idea of a poll to happen in the first place. Dupers that padded the vote and made it non-credible.

Staff doesn't know what they are doing any more than we are. As much as I wanted a wipe, and as raging as I am about the decision that was made, whats done is done.

Unless you guys have the skills to start your own emu project, or decide to jump ship, you should prolly relax.

The sad fact is that staff is unable to deal with the duping, or they would have caught and banned them, solving the problem. Staff doesn't have the time or resources to police them.

My only bone to pick with the staff is that they just cannot admit the inability to currently do anything about it. Informing the community would be far less insulting than the stunts recently performed.

So let the staff be, wait for the OR, and just relax.
Nothing can be done as long as: the dupers > the collective abilities and intelligence of staff.

[mrpinkpants]

I didnt really give a crap if the server was wiped or not. I voted yes to wipe and frogs because the server is severly unbalanced with a ton of overpowered DoT weapons and duped credits/items that make it nearly impossible to trust any player that you don't personally know on the server.

The real issue is the blatant disregard by the devs/dev team that they have had for their community. They saw the response of the first poll, knew it was controversial, adjusted and revised it for a second poll and put in clear goals that, if met in the second poll, would lead to the wipe of TC. Those goals were close to being met and the communities voice was being heard. Instead of doing what was stated in the poll and their guidelines, it was quickly reversed and the poll was stopped and the decision was made not to wipe TC. This was going back on the deal you made with the community. How many more are you willing to go back on? what's the limit?

I came here to play the SWG that i enjoyed, and to this date, it has been enjoyable(even with some of the out of line gear), but after seeing these results and the way in which it was handled makes me not trust that this team is doing the best they can for the community that supports their project.

I will still play, but i'm not going to donate. If i wanted to give my money away just to be lied to i would play the SOE version of SWG instead of this.

The devs are doing a great job, but your Customer Service sucks ass.

[Ekowraith]

leave staff be. So they f*cked up, ppl f*ck up all the time.

Yes. Like you say, they made a mistake: now let them correct their error.

[reknos]

Can I dupe your stuff?

Why would you dupe, its a test center and they can wipe without a vote and give no notice anyway? They can delete you account without notice. They pay to provide you to test. It being a test server duping items wouldn't really matter in the long run anyway so duping shouldn't matter because the stuff your duping is not even yours. stop whining, your going to lose your "stuff" if your testing on the Emu no matter what.

tldr; dont dupe, donate, don't whine, contribute to the community.

[Ralsted]

This is so dumb, a majority wanted a wipe. the whole time we have played EMU it is made clear over and over again that this is a test center so we are asked to never ask about status or the server. Now they ask for our opinion and we are ignored for a minority of people who love their millions of credits and uber weapons.

I love SWG just as much as everyone else, and anyone who loves playing the game will come back after a wipe.

[Duchess]

tldr; dont dupe, donate, don't whine, contribute to the community.
A-freakkin-men.

[Ekowraith]

Guys! We have our first STAFF response to this issue, over in the "Nothing's really changed" thread! :)


Cry.



Thanks, STAFF! We appreciate it. You guys are awfully consistent addressing the most eminent concerns within the community. For a brief moment, the reliability and trustworthiness of the staff came into question. Some people raised questions such as "Is the staff internally coherent?" "How can a donation-based project remain accountable to its players?" "Why would you actively contradict the majority of players?" As usual, you have swooped in to swiftly correct the error to restore the community's faith.

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54683&page=3

[stil]

This thread seems to contain:

-SWGemu ignored the majority wish for a wipe, SOE ignored the majority, therefore SWGemu = SOE. (SOE being a bad entity...)
-SWGemu team created this, if you don't agree then you can get out.

As we can see, both these arguments are invalid.

I disagree with how you've dealt with this, but thank you for making swgemu.


Right here. I like that :) There's no need to call for heads on a platter. I fully support the SWGemu project, but if the leaders of the project do something that seems "out of line" is it not our right, as community members, to question the decision?

Some argue that without the devs, we would not be here. Which is true, however, without the community the devs wouldn't be here either :p

We're in a dependent relationship here folks gasp!

Anyway, I do hope the devs rethink their decision but if not then we'll simply move on until OR.

[reidski182]

guys! We have our first staff response to this issue, over in the "nothing's really changed" thread! :)



thanks, staff! We appreciate it. You guys are awfully reliable in consistently addressing the most eminent concerns within the community.

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54683&page=3

hahahahahha

[Otaris]

Umm, why hasent anyone suggested to fix the polling issues? I mean theres got to be a way to do an accurate poll, right?

[five9]

We all should make camps in game and sing kumbaya around the fires on this glorious day of celebrating the fine voting process and how it worked.

The grity and class, of deleting the poll thread, ignoring the results, was a true sign of great things to come.

[Duchess]

Umm, why hasent anyone suggested to fix the polling issues? I mean theres got to be a way to do an accurate poll, right?

I'm not sure that's possible unless we somehow verify our true identities. :P Not sure that's gonna fly.

[CrackPipe2011]

Stop being pussies and give us what we voted for EMU team.

^^^^

[cru jodo]

Umm, why hasent anyone suggested to fix the polling issues? I mean theres got to be a way to do an accurate poll, right?

i think staff (besides leo wanting to give us the finger) wants to bury this and run away from it. far far away.

[lmleet20]

I think the staff should look at what the majority wants and compromise if they don't want to wipe the server.

[CrackPipe2011]

Why not try again with the poll and make to so only members that joined before 4/20 could vote?
This team showed that they are easily persuaded by a vocal minority.

[Alamar01]

<imo class="my2cents">

Once again I'd like to highlight the nice people that call the emu dev team SOE and a possible wipe the NGE. I'm glad you folks show respect and thanks for all the hard work that the emu team has put in over the years since SWG CU. Seriously, if you can't respect the dev team here for even bringing you a possibility of playing a previously DISCONTINUED game, then maybe you shouldn't be here...

I voted for a wipe w/ Frogs. I really don't care now that there is not going to be one. I am approaching this from a testing standpoint. I voted for a wipe because a wipe MIGHT be able to provide some data/information to the dev team that would make the future of Nova and post-OR Nova run more smoothly and/or work efficiently. I voted for Frogs to soften the blow on some of the newer players who aren't used to wipes. If you played Core3 at all, you would be perfectly used to wipes. I think I probably have played through roughly 5 to 6 wipes now infact.

However, now that the wipe is called off, I am not angry at all. The wipe only provided a possible chance that it MIGHT provide useful data/information. In summation, the dev team has the server's and player-base's best interest at heart. If they didn't then why would they be spending their free time reverse engineering all of SOE's code for a defunct game? The devs saw this getting out of hand, so they chose what they thought served the needs of the server and player-base the most. Period.

</imo>

[Phlier]

From http://www.mmofringe.com/index.php?option=com_joobb&view=topic&topic=1642&Itemid=55

"News from the SWGEmu community...

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54674

Apparently there have been credit and item dupes rampant on the Nova TC server which has caused the cost of items to skyrocket in recent weeks.

The community reps/developers of SWGEmu originated 2 polls in as many days asking whether or not a DB wipe is wanted by the community. The credit dupers and loljedi threw an Anakin fit and the second poll ended with many people creating multiple accounts to skew the poll before it was closed apprently cheered on by an actual developer using system messages ingame last night. Keep in mind this poll was to run 1-2 weeks. Before the multiple accounts skewing the poll started it was at 66% in favor of the DB wipe.

In a very SOEish move the SWGEmu staff closed the poll and stated they would not be wiping the DB apparently kowtowing to the dupers, cheaters, and loljedi completely going agianst their statement they made with the original poll which stated: "We won't pander to the QQ'ers, they ruined SWG in the first place".

The original poll threads have since been ninja deleted.

The SWGEmu group has fought through integrity and credibility issues in the past and it seems they did not absorb and of those lessons learned. With the recent SWG:ANH test looking very positive it will be interesting to see how many in the community may jump ship and wait for them to open up a test server.

No further response from the SWGEmu staff was posted at the time of this post.

-Valeran "

Is this true? Were there really System Messages sent last night by a dev encouraging No votes? Screen shots, anyone?

[Odyssey Starchaser]

Thanks Vlada, that ignore feature is a godsend. So many ugly avatars I never have to see again.

Double thanks I was wondering how to do that myself.

[Onielara]

And as a side note, and anticipating a whole lot of flaming. Facts have clearly proven that the "majority" do NOT post or read forums, even here I expect that holds true. So those that call for the devs death or downfall because they ignore the majority, clearly don't understand their position in the world. Not everyone who composes a well thought out contrasting idea is a troll, and not everyone who gets a post accepted by a forum moderator is "in the majority". They are not always going to make us happy, and democracy BTW is the most dangerous form of government ever conceived short of despotism. Bowing to polls in every case only leads to trouble...

I appreciate the debate, and love the discourse. Consider all ideas and then consider consequences. I FIRMLY believe that the motivations of the volunteer developers of this modern interpretation of SWG care about what they are doing and endeavor to see it succeed.

[Yo-landi]

Honestly be careful what you wish for..

Did you realize the wipe would result in the Bank being removed from game?

As soon as the Wipe people got the wipe they would then cry for the bank to be returned..which returns the dupe and other bugs.

Very illogical to wipe when there is no "real fix" being implemented.

[froggie899]

All I can say is thank goodness there is not going to be a wipe. Blue frogs? BAH, that will not replace my inventory & credits. Let the cheaters cheat, they will not get the full enjoyment of the game. Leave those of us honest, hard working players who took months to finnaly get Master & decent credits alone. It is not right to punish a few for the unmoral & unethical players that are out there.

[waa]

Honestly be careful what you wish for..

Did you realize the wipe would result in the Bank being removed from game?

As soon as the Wipe people got the wipe they would then cry for the bank to be returned..which returns the dupe and other bugs.

Very illogical to wipe when there is no "real fix" being implemented.

The bank removal was confirmed by staff to have been false in the other thread.

[Diehomey!]

I love all the QQ in this thread. You all complain that it's a test center and should be wiped. While this is true, there were no big changes slated for the wipe, just some anti-dupe measures which WILL, not CAN, but WILL be gone against anyway. You then go against your talk about it being a test center and complain that "Durr dupers win!" My warning to you is that if credit and item duping is ruining your testing experience, go play Maple Story. Dupers will always be in the games and will be an ongoing problem. Some of you might say that focusing on dupers, hackers, etc. would take time away from development, but by not putting these measures in effect until the OR wipe they can focus more on the OR which can potentially bring 1.0 faster.

Tl;dr Don't take the test center so seriously. This isn't a cancellation of anti-dupe measures, but a delay as not to waste it on dead code anyway.

[Timbab]

I love all the QQ in this thread. You all complain that it's a test center and should be wiped. While this is true, there were no big changes slated for the wipe, just some anti-dupe measures which WILL, not CAN, but WILL be gone against anyway. You then go against your talk about it being a test center and complain that "Durr dupers win!" My warning to you is that if credit and item duping is ruining your testing experience, go play Maple Story. Dupers will always be in the games and will be an ongoing problem. Some of you might say that focusing on dupers, hackers, etc. would take time away from development, but by not putting these measures in effect until the OR wipe they can focus more on the OR which can potentially bring 1.0 faster.

Tl;dr Don't take the test center so seriously. This isn't a cancellation of anti-dupe measures, but a delay as not to waste it on dead code anyway.

SRS BSNS

But, qfe!

[Kraschman]

I would make the assumption that minor voting infractions were made by both yes and no voters but not enough to alter the outcome.

The problem is that votes were actually TAKEN AWAY from one category and added to another.
The only person(s) with the ability to make a negative vote would be a board moderator.

OR the assumption could be made that infractions were made by both sides and were enough to alter the outcome. One could assume any number of possible outcomes.

In the absence of firm evidence one way or the other, chuck the vote and go with the status quo until you can get solid numbers.

[Sabbathicus]

I gotta say I'm a bit torn. I didn't care about wipe or no wipe that much. However, I would have been quite unhappy with Blue Frogs on the server, and they prob. would have won out.

That being said, I just don't understand the 2-3 polls then ok let's not do it because the minority ( and majority ) QQ'd a lot. I guess the cheating on the voting was rampant? Oh well, at least I don't have to worry about Blue Frogs :)

[waa]

I love all the QQ in this thread. You all complain that it's a test center and should be wiped. While this is true, there were no big changes slated for the wipe, just some anti-dupe measures which WILL, not CAN, but WILL be gone against anyway. You then go against your talk about it being a test center and complain that "Durr dupers win!" My warning to you is that if credit and item duping is ruining your testing experience, go play Maple Story. Dupers will always be in the games and will be an ongoing problem. Some of you might say that focusing on dupers, hackers, etc. would take time away from development, but by not putting these measures in effect until the OR wipe they can focus more on the OR which can potentially bring 1.0 faster.

Tl;dr Don't take the test center so seriously. This isn't a cancellation of anti-dupe measures, but a delay as not to waste it on dead code anyway.

Thats like someone telling you, based off of your own wording... "if you like cheating so much, go play CS"

[emporter]

Why would you dupe, its a test center and they can wipe without a vote and give no notice anyway? They can delete you account without notice. They pay to provide you to test. It being a test server duping items wouldn't really matter in the long run anyway so duping shouldn't matter because the stuff your duping is not even yours. stop whining, your going to lose your "stuff" if your testing on the Emu no matter what.

tldr; dont dupe, donate, don't whine, contribute to the community.

Um... I was just making a joke, Rek.

I must have really liked the original game to put up with the same crap twice now -- and I'm not talking about the dev team.

[Jason2444]

Wipe or no wipe, the emu is making progress so i really dont care

[Ekowraith]

OR the assumption could be made that infractions were made by both sides and were enough to alter the outcome. One could assume any number of possible outcomes.

In the absence of firm evidence one way or the other, chuck the vote and go with the status quo until you can get solid numbers.

Here's what you're not getting, Kraschman. This has been explained over and over.

In order for the poll to have been illegitimate, then there must have been enough account duping that "yes" wouldn't have been a majority. And in order for that to be true, that would have to mean that margin of difference - that 15% of the "yes" votes - were all fraudulent, and none of the "no" votes were fraudulent. If it were any less than 15% yes-biased fraudulent votes, then the "yes" side would STILL be a majority. It is totally baseless to suggest that 15% of the vote was illegitimate yes votes, and 0% of the vote was illegitimate no votes. Padding happened on both sides, and not nearly enough to influence the outcome.

Read that slowly. I don't want to explain it again.

[Tyrinius]

I have no problem with the DEVs deciding what happens with the server, we are testers, and we are happy to even have a server to test/play on.
But next time don't ask us if you just ignore it.
I'm very disappointed. It is clear that the majority wanted the wipe.
Forget that 66% rule that never made much any sense anyway tbh. The majority wanted it. End of discussion.
It's just insane

[Yo-landi]

The bank removal was confirmed by staff to have been false in the other thread.

If this is true then they had NO fix for the dupe issue..because there is no fix for the dupe issue. SOE ran the game for years and they will confirm..there is no fix for the dupe issue. The solution was to ban accounts. So either there is a fib in a "fix" or a fib in the bank removal. Either way one of the two stories is a lie or just a clueless kneejerk response. Anyway I digress.

Thank goodness intelligence prevailed.

[betwoobly]

Thought you wouldn't "pander to the QQers".

Very disappointed.

[Arien]

Guys! We have our first STAFF response to this issue, over in the "Nothing's really changed" thread! :)




Thanks, STAFF! We appreciate it. You guys are awfully consistent addressing the most eminent concerns within the community. For a brief moment, the reliability and trustworthiness of the staff came into question. Some people raised questions such as "Is the staff internally coherent?" "How can a donation-based project remain accountable to its players?" "Why would you actively contradict the majority of players?" As usual, you have swooped in to swiftly correct the error to restore the community's faith.

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54683&page=3

That mod needs to have his status revoked. He's showcasing exactly what everyone is currently up in arms about. This is the kind of person that ruins credibility even more.

If you can't be professional you don't deserve the title. Thats shameful.

[Alamar01]

Honestly be careful what you wish for..

Did you realize the wipe would result in the Bank being removed from game?

As soon as the Wipe people got the wipe they would then cry for the bank to be returned..which returns the dupe and other bugs.

Very illogical to wipe when there is no "real fix" being implemented.

I don't think most of the "wipe" people (I guess I am included in this group) would cry because there wouldnt be a bank after wipe. I'd venture to guess that most of the "wipe" people are emu veterans who likely played previous to TC Nova. Many players remmeber there not being a bank in the first place, or crafting, or planets other than Tatooine, or vehicles, or trainers other than blue frogs (yes Blue Frogs...they had em on TC Nova as well not that entirely long ago), or much of anything outside of Anchorhead.

That said, I think most of the people who voted for a wipe knew this (mainly from reading it) and would be fine.

As far as the whole jumping ship talk, threatening to leave, and qqing/flaming due to the initial discussion of a wipe and now after the wipe was scrapped -- We need to move on...chill out, have fun, and take something possitive as an individual from this event move on.

[paelen]

I am glad for a final decision. Its curious why they did not go the route of the poll's majority. Never-the-less moving forward. Thanks.

I voted 'yes'. Good to go with or without frogs for two masters. Just basically looking for a clean game without dupes. I'm guessing we all were.

[Kraschman]

Here's what you're not getting, Kraschman. This has been explained over and over.

In order for the poll to have been illegitimate, then there must have been enough account duping that "yes" wouldn't have been a majority. And in order for that to be true, that would have to mean that margin of difference - that 15% of the "yes" votes - were all fraudulent, and none of the "no" votes were fraudulent. If it were any less than 15% yes-biased fraudulent votes, then the "yes" side would STILL be a majority. It is totally baseless to suggest that 15% of the vote was illegitimate yes votes, and 0% of the vote was illegitimate no votes. Padding happened on both sides, and not nearly enough to influence the outcome.

Read that slowly. I don't want to explain it again.

And here's what you're not getting...

We have no evidence whatsoever what percentage of yes votes or no votes out of the total were duped. Could be a small percentage, could be much closer to 100%. We have no solid numbers, except for probable fraud on one or both sides. Unless you have solid evidence as to the veracity of any of the numbers, not just the last few minutes of the vote, then the vote is suspect in its entirety.

Chuck it until you get solid numbers, simple.

Your continued harping on the 15% seems to imply that you assume the rest of the votes were legit. Of that we have no proof.

[Yo-landi]

Agree Alamar..either way I am still playing. I do like to see LOGIC to prevail in situation and the outcome of this situation shows the Devs here are 100x the Devs at SOE. If nothing else it shows us they are going to make the right choices no matter what the base wants..and that is how it should be ESPECIALLY since it is not pay to play.

[Yo-landi]

Kraschman...when there are group mission groups of 20+ people out on yavin doing missions and it is not being addressed....no poll from the userbase is viable. I cannot speak o where those people voted but it is definately a skewed poll. Since there is no proof which way it is skewed.....then let things be.

[Arien]

If nothing else it shows us they are going to make the right choices no matter what the base wants..

Thats funny. The heads at SOE thought that they were doing the right thing despite what the players were saying.

[Arulius]

For those of you that think the final outcome was 66% majority to wipe are seriously confused. The Devs were GOING to leave the poll open for 2 weeks, so the vote was NEVER final. It could have went either way.
They saw the polls were getting out of hand, and were being manipulated by people from both sides of the argument. As well as tearing the community apart.
What we did in the end was screw ourselves though. Never again will they ask us for our input on such a thing. Something SOE NEVER did, so comparing the EMU team to them is a slap in the face. We owe them alot more respect than that.
What we did learn was how passionate all the players are. I doubt we will lose 1000 players, maybe at first some people wont play, but they will be back eventually.

[Ekowraith]

And here's what you're not getting...

We have no evidence whatsoever what percentage of yes votes or no votes out of the total were duped. Could be a small percentage, could be much closer to 100%. We have no solid numbers, except for probable fraud on one or both sides. Unless you have solid evidence as to the veracity of any of the numbers, not just the last few minutes of the vote, then the vote is suspect in its entirety.

Chuck it until you get solid numbers, simple.

Your continued harping on the 15% seems to imply that you assume the rest of the votes were legit. Of that we have no proof.

With more than one hundred pages of active discussion on this issue between the two threads makes it abundantly clear that community involvement was high and that an overwhelming majority of the votes came from distinct individuals. You not only have the burden of proving these accusations of fraudulence, but you also have to explain why vote padding might have occurred unequally.

[Yo-landi]

But I wills ay this whole wipe thing i TONS better than me going into IRC during a deadlock and hollering WIPE. WAY better response here lol.

[Kraschman]

Kraschman...when there are group mission groups of 20+ people out on yavin doing missions and it is not being addressed....no poll from the userbase is viable. I cannot speak o where those people voted but it is definately a skewed poll. Since there is no proof which way it is skewed.....then let things be.

Exactly my point. Lacking solid evidence as to the real numbers, chuck the vote and keep the status quo for now.

[Yo-landi]

Thats funny. The heads at SOE thought that they were doing the right thing despite what the players were saying.

SOE is for profit..this is not. NFP is very different from profit. SOE was bent to the desires of Lucas..here not so much. You have a right to cry paying 15 a month x 4 accounts. Here..not so much.;)

[Newsound]

To get bent out of shape over a wipe on a TC is just.... crazy to me.

To the team...

To me the backing down is a bit worrying. This to me could be the start of a slippery slope. It is your server to with what you see fit. Yes, totally alliterating your community is not a good thing at the same time you are not a corporation, you don't have a board of directors and there are no share holders. Do what needs to be done. You will NEVER please everybody. The staff here needs to do what they feel is best for the project as a whole. Not what a bunch of random posters on a forum say. This is what started the whole down turn of SWG in the first place.

Polls on forums and forums themselves are not accurate representation of your community, people will make multiple accounts till they pass out just so their point of view wins.

We have you all to thank for building this game again, we should be thankful for these opportunities. Until this all goes public we play by your rules, not the other way around. Your server(s) your rules. if the community doesn't like your rules they can start up their own servers. I thought that was the staffs stance on everything, or has that changed?

Just concerned a bit.